I think I might install these :lol:
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7597255_s.jpg
:barfaway:
I think I might install these :lol:
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7597255_s.jpg
:barfaway:
With class D amplifiers now being the norm for subs, ~ 2k watts is not out of the question without putting excessive strain on the charging system. IMO anything over 1k watts is overkill anyways (I mean a true 1k watts not an overinflated if lightning strikes it type of amp) unless you are trying to build a purpose built SPL system, which is silly in a sports car. Upgrade the alternator charging cable and the grounds for good measure. The only point where current draw is too much is when your alt cannot keep up with the charging demand of the system consistently, so keep in mind when you add batterys, or batt caps, it can also put more strain on the alternator.
You can not change physics, W=V*A does not matter what type of amplifier you have. And in you opinion (we all know the old saying about those) that 1K watts is too much. All depends on the individual. Even a 1K watt amp will most likely only be pushing a 1/3 of that wattage while playing music. Also take into consideration of the impedance rise of the speaker as it reproduces a certain frequencies, amps rate their wattage at 4Ohm (1Ohm for most bass/digital amplifiers) so if that speaker impedance rises the wattage output drops, unless your amplifier outputs the same wattage regardless of the Ohm load.Quote:
Originally Posted by Streamln1
I will have 1.2K watts available for my four 8's in my Stealth and will balance out with the front, center and rear stages of the whole system. I at NG this year even with the 250-300LBS in the hatch my performance was respectable in all events.
For an audiophile or bass head, it is all about balance when putting a system into a sports car. My subs for example took me a few years to find, but they weigh 4.8LBS each with an Xmaz of 12mm and a free air Fq of 30Hz.
Thats not true, try getting 1000 watts out of a class A/B amp and check your current draw (Think old school Orion BEAST) you are leaving efficiency out of the equation. 1000 watts on a class A/B amp would draw up to 150a or more vs approx 80a on a class D. W=V*A only if the amp is 100% efficient. Obviously you are not going to try to run 4000watts of even class D on a stock alternator and a couple batterys, this day in age running 1000 watts to subs and 3-400 to mids and highs is no big deal on a stock alt unless its an incredibly weak one to start with. And obviously you are not going to be running 'peak' wattage for more than a fraction of a second even with the system cranked to nearly full volume.
Much of ratings of course is just marketing, there is no real set standard for rating amps, it varys by manufacturers. I laugh when I see an amp rated at 1000rms and it has 40 amps worth of fuse. What are they rating that at? 24volts? LOL
THAT's not true, Yes that is assuming 100% efficiency, Ohm's law doesn't change. 1000w needs 69.44A assuming 14.4V AND 100% efficiency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Streamln1
Lets assume that old school A/B amplifiers are 50% efficient. So in order to get 1000W, you would actually need 2000W. 2000W=14.4V*A..... A=138Amps
Now lets assume that a digital amp is 75% efficient. So in order to get 1000W, you would actually need 1750W. 1750W=14.4V*A.... A=121Amps
Say what you want. It is the efficiency that is dropping the amperage needs you CAN NOT change the laws of physics.
Also in 2006 the CEA standard was released to create a level playing field for rating amplifiers, just not every amplifier manufacturer is meeting the standard.
Thank you for validating my argument, you said 'it doesn't matter what amplifier' you run. Saying it takes 2000watts to produce 1000 isn't really the right way to explain it. You just have to factor in the efficiency in the formula. Obviously you do not purchase a 2000watt amp to get 1000. Brand X 1000 watt amp may need x amps to get that 1000 watt rating vs brand b needs more or less. The more effiecient the amp, the more watts you can produce on a given charging system, and thats what your amp actually produces in A/C voltage to the speakers / subs. End of discussion. Not trying to be cocky, I do and have worked in the industry for more than 17 years, and owning a car audio shop, I should know. I know I said 300 initially, but that was just making a point, it wasn't an actual calculation. AB amps are usually around 60-70 percent, d amps can be as much as 90-95.
And it really did not level the playing field that much, even ones that use the CEA standard have a big degree of variance. Since all MFG's went to china, quality control went to shit. Theres a few brands I know and trust, outside of that its just a crap shoot. All that being said, on a stock alternator I would estimate around 1500 RMS would be doable without major upgrades other than beefing up the charging cable and grounds, and a solid batt. Obviously you are not going to be drawing the max amps, or even close. I never run anything more than a 2nd battery on most customers systems, and even at that its overkill in many of the cases.
Heres another interesting tidbit of misinformation thats out there, distortion does not blow speakers, power does. When an amp clips, its trying to produce power that is not designed to produce, aka a square wave. Power is the area under the curve in a sine wave, when an amp clips, this curve becomes cut off at the top and the area becomes much greater, therefore your speakers are taking power way beyond their limits. Thats why tuning a system within its limits is so important and not trying to push and underpowered amp too hard. So many people just max out their gains and wonder why they blow speakers left and right.
I never said that it took a 2000W amp to get 1000W, I think we are having a failure to communicate that is for sure. But the jargen we use when an amp clips has been coined "distortion", because the amp was pushed into a square wave. I agree you could have a recording of a guitar shredding a solo in "distortion" as long as the amp is not clip it will not blow the speaker.
I think that we laymens the term to "distortion" because the nasty sound you get when the amplifier clips.
I was actually suprized when they showed me what happens on a clipping amp, I think it was either RF or Orion that was doing a training on it years ago. They showed the mathmatical formula and this amp was producing nearly triple is max rated output of pure square wave, right there on a scope. Cool stuff. Clipping is fine as long as its within the speakers ability to handle it.
im pretty sure im in the top 2% of largest 3s systems lol! and imo caps are WAY over rated a highend battery will do 10 times more for your upgrade optimas look cool and are way over rated/over priced as well! a company called Remy 800)455-7400((i believe same as deka?)look up online have a model(9134m)its a close out now at $90 that match most $300 or more batts!!(dbl check for fit though)im lookin to get one myself! also if u can afford get a Mechman alt 220a L series(ours are pretty stout at 110a but these are the most bang for your audio buck!)as im running 5 amps in my arsenol! any other questions just give me a call Jim(814)493-3173 been doin car audio for 25yrs!
Wow, that last post was hard to digest...
To the OP, have any pictures been floated around of you build? In all the banter about watts and amps, I think I missed what you ultimately went with :)
EricB
:lol:
Eric here is my list of goodies:
Pioneer AVH-P6000DVD (H/U)
Pioneer AVG-VDP1 (cool vehicle performance display)
Pioneer DEQ-P8000 (5.1 processor, Sub X-over & T/A)
Pioneer CD-BTB200 (bluetooth interface)
Pioneer XDV-P9 (DVD Changer) if it is compatible
Pioneer CDX-680 (CD Changer)
Pioneer iPod chord
Orion HCCA-D2400 (1200 x1 at 1 Ohm, subs)
Orion HP-4800 (100x4 at 4 Ohms, bridged for fronts)
Orion HP-4800 (100x4 at 4 Ohms, center and rear)
Orion MAXBASS (To see if I can get the center to sound lower with "psychoacoustics")
AudioControl DQS (30 band digital +2 band Para. E/Q)
AudioControl DDC (remote display face for DQS)
Phoenix Gold Bass C.U.B.E. (sub-sonic filter)
Tang Band W8-1363SB 8" subwoofer (sub x4)
Eclipse SC8365 3-way component speakers (Front)
Eclipse SP6900 6x9 2-way speakers (Rear)
Tang Band W23-1287SI 2"x3" speakers (center x2)
Build log here:
Steve's 5.1 mobile theater "Stealth" install.
Hey thats funny i got the exact setup(Kickers) for my rear fills except mine are the Cvt 2ohm(model) this months audio car winner(the orange sl) may look better but im safe to say mine sounds better!(its nice for a system to look good but how does it sound?)
not to brag but my Vr4 is completely sound proofed,The list of Equipment is an Alpine W910 Hu,Alpine 701 w701 rux controller(processor,x-over,Eq,time alighnment,bla bla!)on optical cables all Phoenix gold M100,M50,M44,M25 amps! (except my huge Us amp on 2x12 Alpine type X subs!) Mechman 240a alt(big3 grounding done),heavy duty Battery upfront,agm batt in rear,3x2.5 caps(soon removing as caps are a waste of time & money) pioneer stage4 2and5/8" mids(don't laugh at these pioneers $450 a pr little guys.)as they fit perfect in stock dash spots and believe it or not are my favorite pieces in the whole system! Also keep in mind these are mids(built like tanks!) not tweeters! and they seriously F'n rock!(loud and clear!) I have a pr of $750 6.5" SR6500 Polks in my doors and those little mids keep right up with my big $ Polks! and ad soooo much to the front sound staging!(after hearing them i couldn't be w/o them and of course got the Kicker Cvt 6.5 mini subs(set at 63hz-300hz low/mid) in rear and their not doin squat? (biggest let down of my whole system! Ya i'm not sure if it's a cancellation(big subs clashing w/them?) issue or what had them completely sealed incl the port tube(stock 6x9 enclosures) closed off ect but the kickers are suppose to be like 150 rms/300pk but no volume at all?(i've heard louder ipods?) Btw how are your Kickers doin in your setup?? Hey 2F'N loud how r you commin along on your stereo install?(Jim aka spaceace60 in Pa.!) Btw I am always buying horse trading audio gear infact my 2x12 sub box is up for grabs!,($120) hell between labor/materials i'm givin it away! for $165 they can have all 3 power caps!(thats $120 in caps free) it's not ez to get one to fit just right(rear seat lip over box ect ect) thanks! love seen different installs in these cars!
I am waiting on my amps to be released.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceace60
paragraph breaks. please.Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceace60
For the beneift of those whose eyes bleed while trying to decipher word-bricks:
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceace60
wow to funny those were almost same kickers i had in rear of mine! then i went to cdt 6x9 gold series but next im getting a pr of 7x10 focals(so badass)but $399 a pr! cpl pics of my system ive done alot of upgrades since! type x subs,mechman alt ect ect but i HIGHLY recommend pioneer stage4 ts062prs 2 5/8" mids for dash (they are perfect fit!)these are badass mids not tweets! they are $450 a pr but so worth(pic on far right!) it i have $750 polks in my doors and the Pioneers sound better!(can't handle as much low end but add sooo much to front stage and again you would never believe how loud/clear these little guys are!!,but its so cool as they fit perfect in our dash position~and i removed my caps they look cool but do more damage than good!
This was system cpl yrs ago,not the showiest,but i'd bet one of the best sounding!
1) Alpine W910 headunit
2) Alpine H701 processor /wH701rux controller
3) 3 Phoenix Gold amps(M50,M100,Rt66 6ch amps)
4) Pioneer Stage4 2-5/8" mids(dash)
5) Polk Sr6500 6-3/4" component set w/tweeters(front doors)
6) Kicker 6.5 mid/sub w/adapter plates(rear seats) housings completely sealed incl ports
7) Alpine Dvc Type R 12" subs(x2)sealed
8) Agm highend battery
9) Mechman 270amp Ho alt
10) fully sound proofed/matted/closed cell foam
2 farad caps on ea.amp(they actually have a purpose lol) filtering ect
however this system is NOTHING to one in progress! main thing is as a lifelong musician/Dj/Sound engineer is knowing what to listen for! True audiophiles know a $100 sub in the right box sounds better than a $1000 sub in the wrong box!,but since our platform isnt exactly set up for audio im still learning from others and open for new ideas! Btw my fav items in car by far are the Pioneer Stage4 in dash(they fit great sound awesome!)however not cheap! nxt best option Focal Kx power 3" the rearfill Kickers sucked(i'll never buy another Kicker product!
I'm no longer convinced that large is the way to go. I have 1 downfiring 10" sealed sub in my VX, and it's plenty. I can't imagine how it will be after i swap out the stock 5 & 4.5" speakers.