You probably are. But this fanboy is going to hold on with hope lolQuote:
Originally Posted by IPD
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You probably are. But this fanboy is going to hold on with hope lolQuote:
Originally Posted by IPD
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
I've been to every NG since 2004 and had no intentions of missing this one either but when the dates were announce they just didn't line up. I'm going to Hawaii for a wedding for almost 2 weeks right before NG and I took another week for NG it would make almost a month off work. I was hoping the road course would be on Saturday and I'd drive up Friday night
This. X2Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveSlow
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Ok, here are some of my opinions and this is not a shot at Alan or Lori as they have asked for help and I don't believe anyone stepped up to the plate. And I thank them for still trying.
1) As an April announcement isn't terrible for an August event, it's still not early enough. Especially when the event is normally in June. With last year's numbers being so poor, by the time April came I believe most people including myself thought that there would not be an NG17 and made other vacation plans. This event needs to be promoted well in advance with dates and location. And then needs constant hype leading up to the day of the event.
2) Pricing is an issue as not all can afford it. But it is tuff to get the price down without a big turn out.
3) I agree with the paper awards be a terrible idea. With high entry fees and all the time and money spent on the cars and events to win a printed up award feels like a slap in the face especially for the big ones like people's choice and best of show.
As these are not my exact reasons for not going this year, they are definitely a problem.
I personally would love to have still gone as I absolutely love the NG event but just could not.
Haven't been in like 7-ish years. I don't have the VR4 anymore and I'm just to busy with other things. it sucks I always had a blast. it seems the older I get the more crap I have to do everyday/week/month/year.
I would like to thank everyone for their input thus far, and encourage you to continue. There are two things I'd like to point out... First, UMG and NG can't and shouldn't ever be compared. UMG is a car show and gathering. NG has race events, which changes the playing field completely. We have A TON of overhead for the NG, the largest part being the insurance that we need to carry in case anything happens. While we've had people tell us that the insurance cost should be added to the cost of the race events, that's not really fair, either. People who are spectating need to be insured as well. And those of us working on the tracks have to be insured. That is the one, single largest factor in not comparing the two, and in why we have to be a "pay to play" event. There's no way around it, unless someone is suggesting that Alan and I absorb the cost ourselves.
As for the paper awards... I couldn't agree more that they weren't a great choice. But without the numbers we had expected, we had two choices: no awards, or paper awards. That was it. Alan and I had to put out a good deal of our personal money for that event, and we just couldn't spend well over $1000 on awards. They're not inexpensive. Frequently we spent over $100 on just one award. If that's what is killing the NG, then that's really sad and I'm very sorry.
For those who hadn't noticed, we'd done everything within our power to lower the fees beyond where they'd ever been before. We can't change the race fees when we're not the ones renting the tracks, but we did our best to work out deals for you. As the numbers got lower, we had to make those difficult decisions. We tried renting the track and sharing it, but we couldn't find other groups that were interested in doing that, so we had to do it this way. Unfortunately, that contributes to not being able to get a date sooner, too. I started in June of last year and thought we had something worked out with a group for Pitt. That group doesn't announce their dates until after the first of the year, so when the dates they had didn't work for us, we got stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm not sure how we can get around this... it seems every group waits until the first, and several tracks do, too.
Road courses on weekends are going to be difficult to find unless it's with a very large group - the rental fee is about 25% higher. That, of course, is passed along to the racers...
One last thing... I did a little research and quickly found that our prices are WAY lower than the Ferrari groups. :)
Just to agree with Lori. Paper awards were never our 1st choice. We normally buy the awards about a month before the event and any of you that have been to several NG's know that we have gotten come great ones. Unfortunately with the the participation levels of the last two events we did not have money left for anything but paper.
http://3sng.org/galleries/2007/images/IMG_2761.JPG
http://alan.3sgto.org/imagesjpg/20140623_203912.jpg
The FB excuse is that, an excuse. This forum has thousands of members in the FB group.
FB didn't kill the platform interest; FB only killed the interest in forums. I've seen as many badass builds as ever of my last 16 years of ownership. Single turbo builds. Widebody. Custom widebody. Stance. Drag. Engine swaps. New aero pieces. Full Restos, Etc. The years old 1/4 ET record will likely be broken yet this year with a 2.0, and then I think it will be broken again shortly after that by a different car with a 4.0l. There are more and more enthusiasts recognizing the value of the platform which you are seeing in both new unique performance builds and the rising prices on clean, 100% stock low mileage cars.
IMO, the platform is anything but dead. It's just takes a different approach to reach the owners.
Someone mentioned autocross on weekends as desirable. The DSM/EVO/GTR Shootout is Aug 18-20 and has autocross on Saturday. Any 3S can participate in autocross, drag test n tune and dyno. A 4Gswapped 3S can compete as a DSM in any event including Max Effort which takes your best autocross run (of 5), best drag run (of 3) and combines them. Lowest score wins. It's favors a powerful autocross car and is a blast. GTRs are EVOs and DSMs run during the same times and it's fun to compare autocross and drag times with the modern AWD imports.
NG seemed to hinge around road course which I believe is niched, especially with this platform. I understand the core group required it, but it doesn't seem to pull in the new owners and sounds like it really contributed to costs. Or maybe the enthusiasm and vision needed to be generated for road course with the new FB owners. (Post Erron videos going sideways! Love his in car vids. Lol. Or some old school supercar drifting vids).
I just don't subscribe to the dead platform talk. Dead forums which is sad. Best place for technical info and discussion.
But that's the problem ^. Dead forums = dead platforms. Maybe not immediately, but sooner or later. With the technical expertise gone, people will start modding cars like it's the dark ages again. That means more ending up at the crusher.
The only reason you've seen so many on FB is likely because those people would NEVER be active in the community/forums--but they're FB-tards & spam their shiz on social media. That's not a community. That's just trying to one-up others by showing how your shit is nicer/better than theirs.
p.s.
"Custom Widebody" was done 1x by a guy in UK, back when I still cared. Cianci's was always shit to me. I'd asked over and over for a better one--nothing was produced. "stance" needs to DIAF, and anyone that does it to a 3/s should commit seppuku. Engine swapping a 3/s w/o keeping it AWD is a sacriledge.
Tell that to Supras. Their forum is dead but somehow the platform keeps advancing. Same for many other platforms and the new platforms where enthusiasts go straight to FB for their online automotive social networking.
The forums are dying. Not not the platforms and that includes 3S based on what I've seen after joining FB reluctantly.
There are other custom widebody that have been done in the US. Plus quite a few adapting flares from other platforms.
Just because there aren't more people raising their cars to 4x4 status to follow your car's "stance" doesn't mean stuff isn't happening out there. I cannot believe how many single turbos are out there running around. They aren't posted on the forum. All on FB and instagram.
Our forum playground is basically dead. Sucks, because it's a great archive of technical knowledge, searchable and a much better forum for technical discussion.
i just recently got back into a 3s platform (picked up a 94 vr4 2 weeks ago) and was looking for meets, i just saw this pinned at the top n just found out.
Feature in the Fast and Furious movie. that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by familyMAN
:stupid:Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo419
Seriously, it's smoke & mirrors. There's always going to be a few outliers who are exceptionally handy & do great work. No matter what platforms they work on--people will admire their work. FB is just a means to get more visibility. Thus it appears that the platform is progressing; but the truth is that the platform is nowhere near progressing, it's just that those outliers' additional visibility gives it that illusion.
"Online automotive social networking" isn't progress. It's shooting the shit, bragging about your e-peen because of the ride you have, and subduing jealous feelings caused by people who have nicer rides.
p.s.
I make no distinction between "hellaflush" and "stance". They are synonymous terms. Neither belongs on a car.
I make no distinction between purposeful 4x4 status and zero eye for aesthetics.Quote:
Originally Posted by IPD
You sure do spend a lot of time on this dead online, social networking forum. Must love shooting your e-peen around to subdue jealousy. Don't try to say you are here for the technical info since you had someone else build most of your car and you talk as much about your SUV anyway.
Our forums are dead. Same for many other platforms that are still thriving. (Maybe not thriving to your aesthetic or lack of performance agenda, but thriving nonetheless)
Ha! Sure. Maybe it's also because owners go out and race their cars and get featured on 1320video's YouTube channel, and that gets posted on FB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo419
There are a handful of 3S owners engaging in the new media (YouTube, FB, IG) to show off the platform and their rides. More of that promotion would engage other enthusiasts with the platform.
While I don't disagree with many of the sentiments expressed here, I think we may have digressed from the main topic, myself included.
In an effort to return, here are a couple suggestions.
1. The travelling circus method.
Pick 2 road course tracks (the more difficult of the 3) that are in the "middle" one near Kentucky, one near Colorado. Alternate years, but go to the same tracks. Shoot for the same week every year. Screw cost, if we plan far enough out and lock it in, the cost will come down.
Pros
- Every other year, NG is closer and probably less than a day drive. On the off years, you either work on your car or the die-hards come anyway.
- You can run the same tracks, altitude, and probably close temp/humidity. Year over year you can benchmark your progress.
- you know where, you know when. You just don't know how much.
- develop a relationship with tracks and venues.
Cons
- new shiny track each year is not an option.
- every other year you have a shitting long drive unless by some chance you live in Tulsa. (Which I DID, BUT, don't anymore. I'm in Philly)
- initial cost may be higher, but when a track knows you are coming (ie booked two years in advance) I imagine that will drop.
I know I've not been the shining example of attendance, however I have been a sponsor in the past and will commit to some level of sponsorship (determined by Lori twisting my arms) if we as a community want to continue this. For me, the money is less of an issue than the burnt time.
2. A second option is to do some forum research and see if we can't find the other disgruntled children that their cars never made it and form the BCCOA, or "Bastard Car Club of America".
3. We all take our balls and go home. Literally and figuratively.
I'm a party to the "woe is me" thought process too. I love (/hate) my car and miss working on it, miss driving it. Miss hanging out with people who do that too.
These are my suggestions for the salvation of NG, and Lori, I wouldn't mind chatting about what you've tried and what works and doesn't. I've been in operations and logistics management for two decades and I might have some tricks. (Or nothing, it's 50/50)
The underlying suggestion would be to stop beating the dead horse we all love. Trigger isn't dead, but he ain't famous anymore. These cars will NEVER be Supras or Skylines. Paul Walker and Vin Diesel won't drive them on the big screen. There will never be a Ken Block gymkhana with one (although I do dream of that)
We must understand that every dollar we spend on these cars is immediately depreciated by 50% (or more) - And love them anyway.
I have two 93s. One is 90% and the other looks like "Christine" if I find a VR4 Spyder I might buy it, KNOWING I will swear at it more than my whiney 12 yr old.
I will either be at the next NG or commit to some funding help, Lori, you can quote me on that. The only stipulation I have is that we need to know by around Jan 15 at the latest when and where. My suggestions, in order of best to worst
1. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week
2. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week
3. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week.
Please feel free to offer constructive criticism. Tell me I'm an idiot. Tell me why it cannot be done. But offer something else as an option...or why are we on this thread?
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You do realize car forums are just another "Online automotive social networking" site?Quote:
Originally Posted by IPD
I don't like Facebook either. In fact I would say I hate it with a passion, but just because people are posting their stuff there doesn't mean it is any less accomplished. A friend of mine, who is a member here but has never really been an active poster is running a stroker with 14bs. There is another 3s at my buddy's shop that has a ton of money into its build. Yet another friend who has a few posts here, but basically doesn't do much online has a build that should make huge horsepower when he gets the time to finish it up.
Just because people aren't posting on our forums doesn't mean the platform is dead. All forums are dying and there are plenty of cars making huge progress all over the place.
No, I don't think he understood that in my original comment. He'll come back with something he thinks is witty though.Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthee
I've given this A LOT of thought. Here are the problems I see: First, we're in Michigan and I own a business here. So having one track in Kentucky (9 hours) and one in Colorado (a 2-3 day drive) would make it impossible for me to run the event. The solution I see is to have one in Kentucky and maybe one in Memphis or St Louis. They're all a bit far for me, but I could make that sacrifice for the good of the event... There's more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Endersum
I understand what you're saying about the cost of the track getting lower if we book further out. Unfortunately, I have yet to deal with a track that will do that. Most won't even book before October/November, with no contract until after the first of the year because prices and rules change annually (as does the written contract, of course). Renting a track isn't like a normal business. I can talk to a track or two and see if they'd allow us to be a recurring group (VIR ONLY does things this way). We'd have to choose the tracks first. That brings us to the price... We'd need to have the money up front for this - I can't personally commit to that. To give you an idea, the last track I spoke to personally was approximately $8500 on a weekday, and over $11k on a weekend. Those are rough numbers, and without insurance. It's also JUST the road course track.
I think the BCCOA could work.
Part of the problem here is that for some reason people have stopped trusting me to run this thing. As with any business or event, when you first start and things are new, people love it and can't get enough. But the minute someone doesn't like one thing and points it out, the bandwagon begins. I've been criticized for A LOT of choices I've made, as evidenced here in this thread (though I do appreciate that a few of you have said you're not slamming me, just trying to be helpful). The two biggest and most recent are of course charging people to attend and using certificates instead of trophies in 2015. Not a single person has come out and said, "Hey - maybe they had a reason for doing that." Instead, it's, "That was a poor decision. It was a slap in the face." Things like that... Of course I never meant to offend anyone. But I have HUGE things going on in my personal life (a few know about it - it's been almost 3 years now) that are costing me a fortune. I CAN'T go out and buy trophies on my own right now. If I could, I'd be the first one to do it. I've put my own money into this event to make sure those little things were taken care of so people could have a great time, but those aren't the things that are noticed. So, as the bandwagon got bigger, people stopped trusting me. When we needed to ask people to help us fund this thing, or to donate, people started questioning every choice we made. And I totally understand that. But we gave the information people wanted, and yet a couple of years later we're still faced with "poor decisions" because we didn't do everything people wanted.
Here's the simple truth of it all... This event is a GUESSING GAME. When we're deciding what to charge, we're basing it on prior years' numbers. We don't know if we'll have 200 people and money left over, or we'll have 30 people and not nearly enough. It's extremely difficult. I'm certainly willing to talk to you about it, and I'm willing to look for solutions, but I'm fresh out of suggestions. I can't tell people that they can trust me. I've tried to show them, but that doesn't seem to work. I can't take away the registration fee, or we won't have insurance and other little things that the fee covers (registration packets, t-shirts).
I would certainly be willing to chat about what does/doesn't work. The concern I have is that no decisions have been made about an NG18. Neither Alan nor I believed anyone wanted this event to continue, or that there's enough support for it anymore. But I'm open to chatting - maybe you can change my mind.
Please don't take this post as "woe is me - nobody likes me." It's not that AT ALL. It's just me reflecting and realizing that I seem to be a large part of the problem. I'm unable to make this event work the way people want it to. If someone feels they can do that, then I'm happy to talk to them and walk them through planning it. I've put too much into this to just abandon it and walk away.
Something I believe the ungrateful crowd is missing here is that, I have never seen any of the NG committee not tirelessly working their butts off from sun up to sun down and sometimes even beyond those times. This only speaks of the time we are actually at the event. This doesn't include the hours and drives required just to set it up. Every year I attended the NG's Lori and company put on a week filled event. Not a couple hour hoorah. The package cost has always been negligible compared to the "show" I was presented with. I've always appreciated their sacrifice to this event. I unfortunately am also a part of the reason for this demise. Attendance is required for it to survive and I have been away from both my car and the forums for quite some time. I was actually shocked when I stopped by to see this event still trying to continue on.
I have no magic fairy dust solution to keep this event going but I offer this to the whole committee for their efforts, thank you all for doing the great things you have done for over a decade!!!!!
Jeff
PS: I just recently retired my NG08 tee shirt and pulled my ragged NG09 tee shirt out of the drawer. Those memories are priceless, TY all!!!!
Reading all of this has gotten my thinking cap on.... Why can't the NG piggyback off of the DSM/EVO/GTR shootout? I'm sure the Shootout would be willing to add a 3/S racing category. Or at the very least 3/Ses can be in the Mitsubishi powered class that they have for drag racing. And there is a autocross there already. Friday night before is a nice open house thing at Bushur's shop.
So for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday we'd attend the shootout. Maybe have some meetup points before going to these events and cruise to them. Maybe a 3/S only car show could be squeezed in on Friday sometime. And then add one or two other 3/S only events on Wednesday or Thursday before that. It would require no insurance. So I just made your total insurance cost almost nothing because all insurance would be covered under the shootout event. You can have car shows, banquets and other social events without any kind of insurance. (or something just for liability. My big car show is whooping $50 for a $1m policy)
Heck, you could even still implement this idea for this year. Find a hotel 20-30 miles outside of Norwalk. Maybe a Cleveland suburb like Elyria. Get a group rate. Have everyone book there. Find a banquet room or even a park shelter to rent for a banquet and then a place for a car show near by. Your insurance is $0. Charge people who want a t-shirt $20 and use the extra money from that to fund any park shelter or trophy costs. Or charge a minimal amount for registration. ($20 or less).
Could be the NG17 at the Shootout. :)
later,
Curt
I already suggested that last year after the low turnout and iffy on a future event.....
Still could happen whether formally or informally. There are classes that 3Ss are welcomed in. You can basically park anywhere at the "car show".
The 3S National Gathering is not a car show hanging on the coattails of the any other event.
If the NG as a concept can not stand on its own, there is no reason for it to exist.
You want to go to the shootout? Go have a great time.
Also, I have no desire to subject my 3S to the abuse of drag racing. beyond the bench marking my latest power adders time to time, drag racing is not my thing.
You can go to watch. Same as NG. Shootout also has autocross, dyno, car show, hotel shens.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fnloud
But I understand Alan's point too and is it really a "national gathering" then.
Regardless, I'll be there and approximately 10-11 other 3Sers also. Hanging out, autocrossing, drag racing and spectating.
Just a few ideas now that I've read all these responses...
- What about condensing the event into a weekend? Drags Friday night (if we even need them, I believe that is the least popular event now), Autocross Saturday, Road Course Sunday, quick banquet Sunday night, go home Monday. I know this will work better for me and a few other have commented on weekend events. Sure, costs might be higher but the old supporters of this gathering now have a bit more money than time so it might not be a huge issue.
- I don't personally get why people bitch about pricing as I think it's a fairly affordable event but what about being completely open with pricing? Post the insurance bill, trophy costs, rental fees, etc and then post the math that goes into figuring out the actual event cost.
- Go bare minimum with what's included. Charge extra for the shirt, maybe even use one of those on demand printing services, and don't include food at a banquet...handing out the awards in the hotel parking lot as a BYOB event would probably be more fun now that I think about it. Basically your "participant" fee covers the insurance.
- I know this has been tough but find some volunteers, maybe with marketing experience, to push the event. You really need someone who knows how to work Facebook/Twitter/Instagram/Snapchat to get the word out now. Hell, it might even be worth hiring someone.
- For a track suggestion, Nelson Ledges (near Youngstown, Ohio) is trying to revive itself and has recently undergone a repave that I've heard is decent. There's one group that handles track rentals so that may be easier to get a data scheduled further in advance and there would be less fighting for a weekend event. I see that they at least have a section on the website for track rentals as well so maybe that'll be an option again. There's a drag strip 45 minutes away but not sure about auto-x venues.
The way I see the shootout for the average 3S owner.
An all day drag event where 3S will be in 1-2 groups and probably not have more then 1-2 winners.
An all day autocross were 3S will get lumped into existing groups and get out performed across the board. (with a few exceptions that prove the rule. )
A car show
For anyone that wonders why we picked MI for the event.
A road course close that we can partner with. Cost to NG: $0.00
US-131 lets us run during test and tune. Cost to NG: $25.00 per racer + trophies
Tirerack. Cost to NG: Track $0.00 + Insurance (est:$1100) + trophies
NO other place can we go and get fixed costs that low.
Had NG17 had turnout the same and NG16 it would have been fine financially.
Perfect example, I just dropped $2500 for Jeep Jamboree this year. Two events. Both are Friday/Saturday. I'm working all day Thursday then flogging my Jeep all the way there overnight to be ready in the AM. I would have paid another $1000 just to have my two vaca days back. I also cannot bring my kids to the second one as they are in school, and that gives me sad face too. I cannot get these kids into this if they can't ever go. Missing a day's doable, missing a week is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximal
Again, I've loved the NGs I've made it to. Lori and Alan do a hell of a job. I just thought a voice of "why am I not there?" was warranted.
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As has been said, if you want to go to the Shootout, then go. No one is stopping you. I went last year, and have every intention of going this year. It will be a "national gathering" of sorts with a solid handful of 3ser's there, but it will not be, and will be THE National Gathering.
I hope to actually get to meet some of the 3ser's this year. Things were still new to me there last year and I never got to meet up with any of the ones there, other than Chase Hubbel (Can't remember what he posts as here) who actually ran into me in the pits. Its a great event, but it doesn't have that meet vibe, especially on a national level. Regardless I look forward to meeting people that I have not previous.
As to the NG, I am by no means an event organizer. At one time I had a few people looking to me to keep the 3spa thing going. I just don't have that ability, so I am of no real help for suggestions. There were a few things mentioned by others which likely hurt the numbers.
One thing that I am sure will continue to happen, no matter how successful an event may be put on in the future, is people will bitch. This is the internet and people always find a reason to bitch. Don't let the bitchiness fool you into thinking you guys are doing a bad job.
I am sorry all of your work to put the NG together this year was for naught. I enjoy these events and attend when I can. I hope it can be resurrected next year.
Some of my thoughts:
I think a survey of all 3sgto members is in order to see the demographics of the group and how an NG could fit into their summer plans. Some adjustments of the format of the event may be needed.
Promotion is everything.
Ideas: Videos on You tube of autocross, drag races, road course with links to videos in emails, 3sgto forum and Facebook. Testimonials of drivers on video after completing a run full of energy and emotion. Create rivalry and competition between drivers. Have an NG YouTube channel.
Timing of this years event is bad for drivers with families and school age kids. June and July are the best months.
Use Facebook to promote the NG and invite people to check out the forum.
Eh the platform is far from dead. I along with several other people I know within a 50 mile radius own multiple of them, and are building and rebuilding them all the time.
The vendors are far from struggling. 3SX is releasing new stuff all the time, Chris is always posting about new stuff and orders, a new player (IMR I think) has just started making new things and selling them on FB. Aaron is still picking up and parting out failed builds and such, which in turn goes out to 20+ other people who need the parts to finish their builds.
I know at least a dozen 3S people will be at the Shootout, I'm lucky in that it's local to me. Don't know if I would attend if it were more than a few hours away. For what it's worth, I placed 4th or 5th in the AutoX last year on stock turbos. The 3S is very competitive against the DSMs.
No, the platform is alive and kickin'. The problem is that forums are outdated and dead. All the action is on the Facebook groups.
For me it was just distance. There should be an alternating venue. If it was Memphis I'd be there in a second. When I went to the Indy NG that was really too far but I made the sacrifice. Had a blast! I understand the reasons for the location change but for a lot of people it was just too far away.
You guys have always done a great job with the event, don't let the comments here feel like a personal attack. I read the whole thread and I didn't see them that way. You asked for constructive discussion and you got one. I can see why someone would be upset about the trophies. Imagine putting all that effort into the car and the commitment to the trip and only get a piece of paper? I would be kind of disappointed also regardless of the backstory of why. There are fewer and fewer active members and running cars these days too. With that you are going to have to branch out and use social media. Gotta get the word out there across the nation. A National Gathering should be exactly that. With the event being so far away it felt more like a regional gathering. A national event should be more centrally located or at least alternated locations. I cannot add much more than what's already been said.
You guys have done an amazing job for sure. If you can no longer have it then we will need someone to step up next year. Or at the very least have a joint event with another group. I know Alan was concerned about that but it's better than not having one at all.
Was bummed to read this.
Thank you for your comments. There was really only one person here that I took as a personal attack, but that person has always been hyper-critical so I ignore it. I understand people being disappointed about not getting trophies, but I also hoped they'd understand that we had to make a choice between a trophy and an event, which ultimately would have eliminated both. It is what it is, and what's done is done, but of course it hurts me to have someone say that I essentially slapped them across the face. I can only imagine how they would have felt if we'd canceled a race event instead. Maybe road course, since that one didn't have trophies. It's a fine line we walk with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder95VR4
Unfortunately, I don't think we'll find anyone to step up and take over. We put the word out there that we needed help for this year. We received inquiries, people who said they were interested, but then ultimately never made the commitment. I had one person who said he'd find out if he could commit to us only if we wanted to commit to him first. The whole thing kinda showed me that we don't have the commitment to the event that we used to have.
I know everyone wants a date sooner, but I've already explained how the process works. We tried planning an event and getting others to join. That didn't work. So now the only way to continue is to join other events. That puts us at their mercy for getting dates. It's just not a great place to be...
I have noticed Kenny showing glass drink ware as his received trophy, is this something that could be looked into?
https://scontent.fphl2-1.fna.fbcdn.n...dc&oe=59F9DDA1
https://scontent.fphl2-1.fna.fbcdn.n...2b&oe=5A0AE89B
Said glassware... sponsored even
To Lori, I apologize for the slap in the face comment. I'm sorry I worded it that way and did not mean it as an attack. But the way that comment stays in your mind is probably similar to the way it feels to me to get a piece of paper. I meaningfully thank you in person every year for doing what you and Alan do. But the way am sure you feel from reading people's comments that just don't appreciate or understand the work you two put into these events is they way we all feel about our cars and getting paper awards. Sorry if it sounds mean as i don't mean it to. Just trying to show you at least my side. But even with all this said, I would still go to every NG and just could not go this year and was not happy about it.
Shootout was great this year. More 3s's than last year.
My reasons for staying away:
1) (main one) TWC electrically died in Oct 2012 and won't start... cranks, but won't fire. I honestly haven't spent any time on the issue after the first hour or so when I got it home from the N.C. trip. It just sits in the pole barn with Carla's '92 R/T and my '93 VR4 (which is celebrating 6 years up on jackstands. (Oh yeah, TWC stands for The White Car) I guess the root cause can be described as " lack of interest"
2) vacation time - (as important as #1) I have to have vacation requests in by Feb 28th for the year. With being #5 on the vacation seniority list I can get just about anything submitted by that date. anything after that date is next to impossible to get a whole week off from memorial day to labor day because a group of people take mondays and fridays off all summer. with only 4 people allowed off at a time in my group, it's impossible to get a solid week off. So for me, the date would have to be in stone before Feb 28th.
3) hurt my car doing the drags on NG and broke it the next day on the road course. money paid and no RC fun :( IMHO drags are detrimental to our cars and its time has come and gone as the participation numbers were showing. AND the St Louis boys dropping two driveshafts on the dragstrip one year cemented my position on the subject. Time and money wasted on track rental and insurance.
4) I don't drink beyond a few for a lot of reasons. The drunken recklessness of the shopping cart drags left a real bad taste in my mouth considering what could have happened. I know you don't like hearing about it, but if you had the industrial safety training I have had for work from OSHA and UAW/GM Safety Dept, you would see the event in a different light. People getting drunk in the parking lot, I had no problem with. I enjoyed talking and interacting with them... except for the gun, shopping carts and air bag cannon.
Thoughts: Planning the NG is a task where the accolades pale to the effort put forth. Lori can and has attested to this more than once over the years. If it weren't for her (and Alan's) efforts, the NG would have ceased a few years ago. Yes, I have locked horns with Lori a few times, but I'll also give her credit where she deserves it.
I see vacation time off and personal family commitments as the number one and two reasons for NG attendance drop off. I'll admit that the last one I attended the bang did not equal the buck for me and that could hold true for others. Step back as advised and simplify and streamline.
Dragway 42 in W Salem Ohio underwent a mega million dollar renovation and Akron Sports Car Club holds their autocross events there now. They are the ones that manage the autox event at Norwalk Raceway for Buschur's shootout and do a great job. (www.autox.net) A regular Sunday costs $40 - $45 with around 70 cars showing up, so I am sure that could be hired to manage a NG autox for a similar amount and there might be no insurance liability doing it that way.
I would also suggest having NG central a little south of W Salem on I-71 in Ashland Ohio where Mid-Ohio is just a little more down I-71 in Mansfield. Possible to piggy back on another group's event down there? For a car show there are a ton of Saturday parking lot cruise-ins around the area ( a few Quaker Steak & Lubes) that we could be a part of or go into down town Ashland around Ashland University and hold a 3S show like usual.
For the adventurists, a 60 minute drive right up I-71NB will get you to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Just some thoughts.
After thoughts: maybe drop the road course all together in favor of the ASCC run autox event ( which average a mile + course) and for the race adrenaline, the group could go to Dragway 42 on their Wed or Fri night program as customers, avoiding insurance costs altogether as that would be covered in the D42 admission.
Those who wish to beat on their fragile old cars can do so while the rest of us watch them and the other race cars run. Then a planned road trip into Cleveland to the R&R Hall O fame could replace the road course event time wise.
Road Course was the biggest draw to me, I share the same sentiment with drag racing.