My 6g74 tt build [Archive] - 3000GT / Stealth / GTO Forum

n2nsanity

07-29-2012, 01:55 PM

So, I've already completed the 6g74 swap and mtx conversion. Looking for another fun project and little more of a challenge and absolutely more power. For now, I'll probably stay fwd and going for minimal boost (9b's or maybe slight upgrade). I do have bigger plans, but saving those for later on a whole new build. For now I'm just going for decent upgrades in power at minimal costs. My goal is to complete this project by the end of the year and for about $1500. Considering how cheap I've come out of my previous projects, I think I can pull this off. Any guidance or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

n2nsanity

07-29-2012, 02:17 PM

Need:
TT front motor mount bracket (using hacked up n/a bracket for now)
Hopefully nothing else :p

Have:
Used TT Fuel Pump (already installed)
New Fuel Pump hotwire kit (ninja performance)
New OEM Fuel Filter
New AFPR & Gauge
New Fuel Hose and AN-6 fittings
Used TT Injectors (from a 93)
Used TT Plenum (from a 93 and freshly powdercoated)
New EGR Block-off plates
New Stainless TT Exhaust Manifolds (also have a used set from a 93 if I run into issues with these)
New Exhaust manifold gaskets
Used Turbos (td04 9b's with 90k and no shaft play from a 93)
New M2 TT Downpipe
Used Coolant feed and return lines (from a 93)
Used Oil feed lines (from a 93)
New Intake Y Pipe (cxracing)
Used SMIC's and piping
Used 3" GM MAF
Used MAFT2
New OEM TT Oil filter housing (cherry hill)
New oil filter housing gasket (ninjaperformance)
New Oil filter housing adapters M16 x 1.5 to -10AN
New -10AN Oil Pan Weld-on Return Fittings
New Custom -10AN Oil return lines (ninja performance)
New Aftermarket Oil cooler
New braided ss -10AN oil cooler lines, 90* and straight ends, 26" and 36"
New Rear Precat Delete (3sx)
New Plugs - Champion c53vc gapless coppers
Used OEM Front o2 housing
Resistors for injectors (from partsxpress)
Used Boost gauge (autometer procomp)
1g Chrome ECU (jesters)
Used Evo BOV
New vacuum manifold with various fittings, adapters, plugs
Sandwich plate (just in case)
Custom oil feeds and several fittings/adapters/splitters (just in case)

Sold the safc2 since I'm going chrome. Still need to sell the 96 vr4 ecu. Also, should probably sell the maft2 and get the older/cheaper maft.
With the upgrades, it's looking more like a $1500 - $2000 project depending on what I make back from the tt ecu and maft2. Not sure I really want to see my price list, but I might put one together. Buying and selling parts and changing plans along the way make it a little more complicated. I'll probably have 2 used smic kits and possibly an fmic kit by the time I start this, lol.

I keep trying to get ahead and do some tasks now, but keep finding reasons I have to do it all at the same time. I could probably do AFPR and lines now, but I'm now thinking it would be better to do that last. But I think I will wire in resistors and install tt injectors, plugs and tt plenum ahead of time.
Test fitted manifolds/turbos/downpipe off the car to make sure all the holes line up and have a better idea what I'm working with. Also good way to see if you're missing gaskets, studs or bolts, which I am, lol. Some of the holes needed to be enlarged, so better to have that out of the way before so I can hopefully install everything only once.
Tested actuators with the air compressor. They both work, but seems like the rear one that has the dent on top doesn't open quite as far as the other. Hope this will be ok at least temporarily.

Looks like I'll be knocking this out in May between semesters.
Getting close :)

n2nsanity

07-29-2012, 02:25 PM

My Questions:

Can I use a sandwich plate for oil feeds?
-Have a tt oil filter housing on the way. May run a split off of that. Or may run a line from the back of the block to a T fitting between the turbos.

Will I absolutely need to tap returns into the oil pan or is there possibly another method?
-Was recommended to use adapters from old tt oil pan. I'm going to try some custom weld-on adapters to hopefully make this easier.

Will I need a tt ecu if I have a safc and vice versa?
-I've heard some people only run the safc. Most recommend to have both with the 3.5. But, looks like I'm going the chrome route instead.

I'd prefer not to tap into the water housing. Can I use T's on the heater hose lines for coolant feeds?
-Still weighing options on this. I don't see why I couldn't just use T's on the heater hoses for feeds and returns. Can't be that bad considering some people aren't running coolant lines at all.

Possible fitment issues with motor mount brackets?
-Using braided ss oil return lines and weld-on oil pan fittings, so shouldn't be a problem.

Other thoughts:
I was thinking I could use high impedance injectors instead of wiring in resistors.
-From what I've read this can be done, but it's much much better to use low impedance which are optimized for "peak and hold".

I know the standard way is to get the front tt motor mount as part of the swap. I'm using as many braided ss lines as possible and I think the custom front oil return should fit around the n/a mount.

IPD

07-29-2012, 05:42 PM

you'll need an SAFC regardless if you have a larger than 3.0L engine, imho. the benefit to having a tt-ecu is that you can run a larger correction factor on it than you can with the n/a ecu. my hunch is that a 3.5L with 9b's--wastegate boost--is at the limit of what an n/a ecu with SAFC can support.

get both & be happy.

p.s.

traction? what traction?

DrGonzo

07-29-2012, 07:27 PM

This should be interesting....

you will need to tap the oil pan for the oil returns. best to get a beat up TT oil pan and cut off the adapters from the inside. Mark your pan, drill out the holes and tack the adapters in place.

There is a debate on needing the coolant line for the turbos. Adding in the coolant lines will help them last longer IMHO. best to tap into the stock water housing as the flow for the turbos is correct in those stock locations.

You will need a SAFC or standalone for the fuel management. TT ECU is also probably going to be a must. trying to tune with the stock N/A ECU will be way to hard and the amount of corrections needed will cause problems elsewhere.

For the front oil feed a sandwich plate should suffice. the rear one you cab just use the stock TT oil sender adapter as that is where the rear oil feed comes from.

You will need a TT Upper intake. Disableing the VICS on the N/A will not work. the N/A intake has two runners depending on the position of the VICS. Just get a TT intake so the flow if correct.

TT DP will probably not work. You would most likely need to get it modified as the 3.5L DP is different due to the increased deck height. So stock DP will not bolt up.

You can probably stick with the stock SMIC for the time being if you only running 9psi. I had to step up the FMIC once I pasted the 10-12psi mark as I needed to keep the intake tamps down to control the knock and the stock SMICs where getting heat soaked.

The resistor pack is going to be worthless and a pain without the stock harness. You can just wire in individual resistors to the injectors and save yourself a wiring nightmare.

Stock injectors will be fine. if you need to increase them then get an adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator. Set you base fuel pressure higher and that will increase the injector flow. Keep in mind you will most likely need the AFPR as once you make to much corrections on the SAFC your IDC's will get to high. Increasing the fuel pressure will lower the IDC's and allow for more correction. That is how I am able to run 14-16psi on my 10:1 build still using the stock injectors. with my base FP now at 55psi, I'm flowing about 450cc on the stock TT injectors.

ibsorgn

07-30-2012, 12:03 PM

I agree with the use of a Adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Having the ability to change the fuel line pressure is a tuning benefit. You may want to consider an FMU in the neighborhood of a 6 - 1 which will increase the fuel pressure as boost rises this will also keep you from making larger air corrections with the SAFC. Remember that the ECU adjusts timing based largely on RPM and LOAD, and LOAD is seen by the ECU as air flow. The more you lie to the ECU about air flow the more you will be distorting the timing. You may want to take a look at WMI for cooling. Basic systems are not very expensive and it can be used as a fuel enrichment alternative. WMI systems are usually based on boost and can be used on any level of build. Concerning resistors I made a small neat little resistor pack that I mounted on the firewall that looks factory for just a few dollars. If you're interested I can send a few pixs. Good luck with your projects sound like fun.

n2nsanity

07-30-2012, 01:09 PM

Wow, thanks for all the great info guys. I'll update my list.

So stock tt injectors, fuel pressure regulator. Might do regulator first as I can go ahead and install that now and have that out the way. I'm about due for new filter and lines anyway.
Any suggestions for filter and FPR? Also dual feed options. Ready to buy this stuff today. My fuel lines absolutely need replacing, looks like they're starting to dry rot. Suggestions for AN fittings and lines would be greatly appreciated also.

I'll probably wire in resistors to the injectors. I'll be researching that, but any tips would be great. But that won't be right away.

Will stock n/a harness be an issue? The tt ecu should plug right up right? Will my 94 n/a harness be a problem? Will a 99ecu work with my setup?

Traction is already a little bit of an issue, lol. I think that has a lot to do with that 6puck clutch tho. I'll probably change that next go around. Bigger rims/tires will also be one of the 1st things I do after the conversion. I've had these tires for years. Might just do burnouts for fun til there's nothing left :p

ibsorgn

07-30-2012, 03:55 PM

If I was in your shoes I would dig deep into 6G74 swaps especially what ECU's can be used. Is the motor NA or a TT, I'm not really clear on that point? If the 94 NA ECU is currently being used what type of AF's are you getting. If they are relatively close, a SAFC should be the ticket to get the fuel back in line so long as corrections don't become excessive, but as I said in my last post, major corrections in Air Flow signals will create improper timing. You can verify what I'm saying by reviewing the timing matrixes published in Stealth316.com. If you are running a boosted application, an FMU may be the answer for boost levels up to 8 - 9 psi although this would be a temporary solution. Should you be planning on moving to higher boost levels you will eventually have to address proper timing issues. Those flashable ECUs could be a solution however you would have to determine whether the systems are compatible.

IMHO, if you are using this vehicle for a DD I would not recommend a puck type clutch as they are not very street friendly. Before replacing your clutch try to estimate what type of HP and torque you are shooting for and how you will be using the car, then make a decision on the type.

n2nsanity

07-31-2012, 03:40 AM

It's definitely more of a project than a dd. I've put less than 2000 miles on it in the past 15 months and I have 3 cars, so that's not an issue. I've gotten used to the clutch, but it can be annoying, especially in reverse. It can also be fun though. I can easily break traction shifting into 2nd and 3rd and last weekend I found out I can do burnouts at 1200rpm, lol. Anyway I'll enjoy it while I have it and until I wear it out and then worry about replacing it.

I've still got plenty of research to do. First thing I'm going to tackle is the fuel as I definitely need new lines and no idea how old the filter is. I dumped a can of seafoam in the gas tank last week, so I think now's definitely a good time to replace it. So, right now I want to go ahead and get a new fuel filter and AFPR and lines (Preferably a dual feed setup with AN fittings and SS lines, even though I don't really need it). I've already spent a lot of time looking at my fuel options and the more I look, the more options I see and the more questions I have. Anyone have some good recommendations for this stuff?

Aside from that, for now I'll just be collecting whatever random cheap parts I can find that I know I'll need for the conversion.

DrGonzo

07-31-2012, 08:52 AM

You won't need a dual feed set-up. That is way overkill for your set-up. Just a single line from filter to front rail, a good SS loop and a line from rear bank to FPR. Either an Automotive or FuelLab FPR will work just fine. You can build the lines yourself and save some money in the end.

ibsorgn

07-31-2012, 09:17 AM

I've still got plenty of research to do. First thing I'm going to tackle is the fuel as I definitely need new lines and no idea how old the filter is. I dumped a can of seafoam in the gas tank last week, so I think now's definitely a good time to replace it. So, right now I want to go ahead and get a new fuel filter and AFPR and lines (Preferably a dual feed setup with AN fittings and SS lines, even though I don't really need it). I've already spent a lot of time looking at my fuel options and the more I look, the more options I see and the more questions I have. Anyone have some good recommendations for this stuff?

Aside from that, for now I'll just be collecting whatever random cheap parts I can find that I know I'll need for the conversion.

If money is an issue you can use simple copper compression fittings as that is much cheaper than AN and Stainless. They can always be swapped out at a later date. The heart of a good fuel system starts with the fuel pump so that's where I would begin before making any fuel system changes. I'm not a brand name guy, but a pump that will supply good constant pressure with volume for your target HP. I'm not into big hp but I'm sure many guys in this forum can suggest some tried and true pumps but I would assume something in the neighborhood of 300+lpg. Please let us know what the solution is to the ECU as I'm very curious on this whole 6G74 swap as I think it is an excellant choice as a replacement motor.

n2nsanity

08-03-2012, 01:58 PM

Bloodlust182

08-03-2012, 04:34 PM

If your fuel pump isnt hotwired, i would recommend that. As for the ECU issue, Brett from St.louis sells a flashable ecu for all years if i remember correctly. possibly might want to look into that.

beepbeep

08-03-2012, 06:44 PM

subscribed

ibsorgn

08-05-2012, 09:01 AM

Already have a tt fuel pump installed. It's noisy as hell, lol. But as long as it works... This is already installed because the previous owner of this car had the RIPP SC kit until he blew his motor. I picked it up for very cheap and dropped the 6g74 in :)

Don't see why the pump should be noisy, noisy like in raddling or just operation? Still not clear and what ECU you are using?

n2nsanity

08-05-2012, 10:57 AM

Blown3000

08-05-2012, 02:58 PM

Fuel pump will be hotwired soon. Just need to get out and do it. Already have distribution blocks in the trunk, so this should be easy.

Fuel pump is a little noisy in operation. Sounds like a power antenna motor. With the rear seats up, cargo cover closed and stuff in the trunk it's not as bad.

I will be buying a flash-able tt ecu later (see my shopping list). Car is a little bit of a frankenstein because I used what I had laying around. It was a supercharged 94sl, 3.0, atx, ca spec. Now it's technically a 94base with a 3.5, mtx, fed spec, no abs, no ecs.
ECU and engine harness are from a 94 base. Engine from a debonaire. Trans and axles are from a 92es.

So a Fed spec NA ECU is compatable with a 6G74. Are you using the SAFC? If so, do you use it and make any correction? Am I understanding correctly that you pulled the CA spec ECU and harness and replaced with a FED spec setup? That sound the fuel pump is making may be indicative of a loose mounting of the FP to it's carrier. Might want to check, if it is a vibration, it could cause a fire or explosion.

n2nsanity

08-05-2012, 09:54 PM

ibsorgn

08-06-2012, 08:29 AM

Yes, all 93+ ECU's should be directly compatible with the 6g74.
I'm not using the SAFC yet.
The fuel pump sounds normal for a walbro. It's just a whining sound. After I finished putting my interior back together it's a lot less noticeable.

A direct plug in? This is the 3 connector ECU you are refering to isn't it? Pump is whining okay, if it was vibrating or rattling I would ditto Blown's comment.

Blown3000

08-06-2012, 03:01 PM

Yes, all 93+ ECU's should be directly compatible with the 6g74.
I'm not using the SAFC yet.
The fuel pump sounds normal for a walbro. It's just a whining sound. After I finished putting my interior back together it's a lot less noticeable.

94 and up TTs and Cal spec cars use 4 connector ECUs, all 91-93 and 94 -95 Fed spec NAs use 3 connector. Which one do you use 3 connector or 4?

n2nsanity

09-23-2012, 04:27 AM

I believe it's the 3 connector. I swapped harness and ecu from the 5spd donor car, so obviously there wasn't an issue with the connectors. The only wiring issue was the clutch safety switch. I didn't realize until after the conversion that this was part of the interior body harness. Not a big deal as I plan to install a neutral safety switch later. This also affected cruise control. When using cruise control, if I press the clutch the engine rev's up, lol.

I'll definitely have to look into the flashable vr4 ecu compatibility. I think someone makes adapters and I really don't want to swap harnesses again.

n2nsanity

09-23-2012, 04:52 AM

Well, I think I'm ready to start on this. I want to do the oil returnts 1st. I already need to do my oil pan gasket anyway. I was thinking I could go ahead and put the return fittings in and cap them off.

Would this kit work? Should I use 2? Or just use the junction?
UNIVERSAL 36" TURBO/ TURBO CHARGER TURBOCHARGER OIL FEED LINE 1/8 FITTING T3 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-36-TURBO-TURBO-CHARGER-TURBOCHARGER-OIL-FEED-LINE-1-8-FITTING-T3-/270819095332?forcev4exp=true&forceRpt=true)

Can I use a 2nd kit for the feeds? What's the length of the feed and return lines?

NOMIEZVR4

09-23-2012, 12:27 PM

if you're in the market for a walbro 255 and stock TT fuel injectors I've got both. You can have them for $110 shipped..you can PM me for more info. :)

n2nsanity

09-23-2012, 01:51 PM

Thanks. I believe I have a walbro 255 installed already. I think I have TT injectors also. I need to check the #s on them to see what they are.

n2nsanity

10-07-2012, 02:48 AM

Well I've got a few parts now. Only $220 invested so far :)
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/68046_161148147357481_1823952640_n.jpg

Jared found me a local guy who is parting out a 93 vr4. I should be getting everything but the ecu from him sometime this week :)

In a month or 2 hopefully I'll be able to get one of the flashable ecu's and harness adapter. I'm hoping the adapters they sell will work for NA harnesses too. Worst case, I'll have to also buy a vr4 engine harness.
With the flashable ecu and maft2, I'm not sure I'd need the safc2. Is this correct?

TUFFTR

10-07-2012, 06:02 AM

futurevr4man

10-07-2012, 07:13 PM

with the flashable you wont need the safc2 OR the maft. the ecu can do it all

n2nsanity

10-08-2012, 05:50 AM

the flashable ecu can handle the gm maf?

futurevr4man

10-08-2012, 09:02 AM

oh whoops, no. it cant. i was thinkin you were going to use that maft to tune with still. you ought to sell that and get one of the cheap ones

IPD

10-08-2012, 09:15 AM

why do people hate piggybacks so much?

futurevr4man

10-08-2012, 12:20 PM

i am currently running 2 piggybacks... so my response would be, people dont. i think the flashable ecu is a better setup because you have direct control rather than tricking the ecu to do what you want it to do. i have a flashable setup on the shelf at home, but i have other priorities currently

IPD

10-09-2012, 11:50 AM

Chris@Rvengeperformance

10-09-2012, 01:51 PM

ray was the one who convinced me to go with MAF-T & SAFC...and that's what i'm planning on using.

If you like things simple there is nothing wrong with that.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

futurevr4man

10-09-2012, 06:01 PM

ray was the one who convinced me to go with MAF-T & SAFC...and that's what i'm planning on using.

thats what im using as well. however when i plan on stepping up to 1000cc injectors, i will need a different method of tuning. i would also like to get into the realm of playing with my timing a bit

mb3000

10-09-2012, 11:04 PM

thats what im using as well. however when i plan on stepping up to 1000cc injectors, i will need a different method of tuning. i would also like to get into the realm of playing with my timing a bit

AEM is for you. Complete control.

futurevr4man

10-09-2012, 11:18 PM

no thank you. i know the direction i want to go

n2nsanity

10-10-2012, 05:04 AM

Any experts on wire harnesses here? I'm debating which route to go with the harness/ecu.

I want to go with one of the chromed flashable ecu's. These have ecu harness adapters available, but they were designed for tt cars. I asked Brett about it and he said he could make some custom harness adapters for my situation. I'm wondering if it would be easier to just buy a 98 or 99 vr4 harness and then I shouldn't need any adapters, right? I also hear that 98,99 sl harnesses are very similar. Could I use one of those? It's probably going to be hard to find any 98/99 harness, so I was also thinking, would it be so bad if I just bought a 94 or 95 vr4 or rt/tt harness and ecu? This would probably also save me a good bit of $. Is there anything else I should be taking into consideration? Will my dash and body harness be ok? I'm not worried about ABS or ECS, so that's not an issue. At this point I don't really care if I have the boost gauge in the dash. I already have an A-pillar pod and boost gauge I could use. Also another question about the dash harness, this is where the obd2 port sits. I know it's a hybrid setup (on 93-95's i think) but will there be any wiring issues with this? The wiring was all good for obd2, just the ecu wasn't right?

Sometime in the next few days I'm supposed to go pick up almost everything I'm going to need for this conversion :)
The harness issue is my biggest dilemma at the moment.

Also to add to the chaos, either before or in the middle of this project I'll be installing the keyless/proximity entry and push-button start setup.
I believe this will primarily tap into the dash harness, which is another reason I want to figure out my wiring questions soon. I don't want to have to install this kit twice.

TUFFTR

10-10-2012, 07:15 AM

Well, right now dude I'll be transplanting in a 1991 DOHC harness, then using the converter to go 91 > 99. Means so stuffing around for me at all. plug it in, and (hopefully) off I go!
On this topic, the tactrix 1.3 cable is good for datalogging only ya?

n2nsanity

10-10-2012, 09:40 AM

As far as I know only for logging. Can get a 1.3 or equivalent for $20 or $30. If you want reflashing capability, you need the 2.0 which is $170 now I think.
Or am I backwards on this?

I want to do all these things but I wonder if there's even a need on mostly stock tt stuff (minus the 10:1 compression and the GM MAF)
I'm not sure what to do now. At least not until some of my harness questions are answered.

n2nsanity

10-25-2012, 11:56 AM

Updated my parts list. Have almost everything I need now :)

More pics...

http://i47.tinypic.com/2e5kum9.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/sw7dpu.jpg

These will definitely get some TLC before installing

n2nsanity

11-07-2012, 03:03 PM

More parts :)

96 VR4 ECU
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/r180/403553_171118789693750_1629679792_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/405051_171118833027079_79572820_n.jpg

Now to find an Engine Harness. I think this would be the easiest way. And save the flashable ecu stuff for later. Pretty sure I'll have a hard time finding a 98/99 harness.
I also found a guy selling a 95 harness. Should this work with this ECU? OBD Hybrid was 94-95 right? Would either of these work or do I need a 96 harness for this particular ECU?
Also, does Fed Spec/CA Spec matter for mating the proper harness with this ECU?

n2nsanity

02-09-2013, 11:54 PM

Wow, I've been slacking....

But, downpipe is here :)
http://i50.tinypic.com/2akigld.jpg

Just have to figure out which route to go with the ecu/wiring.

familyMAN

02-10-2013, 11:33 AM

You'll probably need to add a bit to the downpipe if this is going on a 6g74. I had to add about an inch to front pipe and 1/2" to rear. Mocking it up on car was better than on engine stand. Only $60 at exhaust shop.

n2nsanity

02-10-2013, 02:32 PM

The aftermarket downpipe I have now fits fine. Good inch or so clearance. Spacers wont be a problem if needed

n2nsanity

02-15-2013, 10:27 PM

Ok, so that's not the last part needed, but the last major part I should say.

First I'm going to start with oil return fittings on the oil pan. That way I can go ahead and redo the gasket and get some good testing for leaks on the fittings and my gasket job before complicating things. Any suggestions?

Seems to be ton of aftermarket options. I'm thinking something I could just drill a hole in the pan, gasket in between and bolt it onto the pan from the outside. I plan on using custom braided lines. Using the stock 9b's, what type/size of AN fitting should I use. And suggestions for a good way to cap it off in the meantime?

Suggestions for oil feeds also?

sketch

02-15-2013, 10:46 PM

-4an oil feed lines

-8an and -10an are popular drain options.

green-lantern

02-15-2013, 10:55 PM

Are you planing to run 9b's on a 6g74? I thought they were more of a restriction on that engine.

sketch

02-15-2013, 11:05 PM

are you going to be running the stock 10:1 pistons?

n2nsanity

02-15-2013, 11:41 PM

Planning on running 9bs on 10:1 at around 12psi for now. No idea what the future holds.

Sketch, think those sizes will also work well on possible future upgrades?

Any suggestions for putting the drain/feed fittings on now and capping them? I was thinking of installing the lines also and somehow capping the end of the lines instead of at the fittings.

sketch

02-16-2013, 12:08 AM

i've never heard of anyone using anything larger than -4an feed lines
if you're looking to future proof, i'd go with the -10an drains, it's what i'm going to do when i get around to building my 6g74 block.

a cap or a plug would do the trick for you
Summit Racing® Plugs SUM-220031B - SummitRacing.com (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220031b/overview/)
Summit Racing® AN Flare Caps SUM-220040B - SummitRacing.com (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220040b/overview/)
just get one to match the size/flare

n2nsanity

03-04-2013, 10:16 AM

Going through my stuff. Working on labeling these so I can make replacements if possible. I'm looking at the parts manual, but it's hard to tell what's what. Only thing I know is the 2 return lines, but don't know which is for front and which is for back. I plan to do braided lines with AN fittings and not use these. I might have to color code them because if I can't tell these apart, will be real fun figuring the braided lines out.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2vkgq2w.jpg

Also, here's my powderdoated gm maf housing :)
http://i49.tinypic.com/w4b4o.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/2w2kkdt.jpg

Wonder if I should try to get the gm maf working before or after the conversion?

sketch

03-04-2013, 10:35 AM

http://i50.tinypic.com/2vkgq2w.jpg

1 & 2 are the oil feeds

7 & 8 are the drains

3, 4, 5 & 6 are the water feeds/returns for the turbos. not sure which is which but they basically fit together like a jigsaw puzzle with the TT waterneck. I'm not even sure if it matters which one feeds or returns - when I did my TT conversion I just ran them to where they looked best.

Also, powder coated GM MAF looks awesome.

n2nsanity

03-15-2013, 01:04 AM

I had to over-complicate things, lol. So much for my budget... I can't believe I just dropped over $200 on just oil return lines/fittings/flanges. Only good thing is with this setup, I don't need to worry about my front motor mount. Also, won't require any welding on the oilpan at all, but I probably still will have the bolts welded inside of the pan just for peace of mind.

Chris is building the oil return lines for me. Should have those in a week or so. I'll add pics later.

And these are on the way

2 of these for the oil pan
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gwe2it.jpg

2 of these for the turbos
http://i48.tinypic.com/j0dtaq.jpg

TT oil filter housing is on the way along with some other misc stuff.

Also, I'm going the chrome route, so this really is no longer a minimal budget build, lol.

Now just need Precats (precat deletes preferably) and resistors for injectors (unless I find some high impedance 360's or 450's) oh and a week of free time.

sketch

03-15-2013, 09:31 AM

2 of these for the oil pan
http://i47.tinypic.com/2gwe2it.jpg
where'd you get these/what are they called?

Chris@Rvengeperformance

03-15-2013, 09:45 AM

good luck getting an o-ring to seal against the pan...

n2nsanity

03-15-2013, 11:37 AM

Chris@Rvengeperformance

03-15-2013, 11:45 AM

Oil pan return fittings, got them on ebay

Why don't you think it will seal? Any type of washer I can use on the inside to help seal? Was probably going to weld the nut in place on the inside so it can be re-tightened from the outside if needed.

I figured it would be easier to seal 1 hole in the pan instead of 3.

I have a brand new IPS pan, brand new gaskets, and brand new oil pan bolts. Still leaks a little. I cannot imagine a rubber o-ring sealing to the surface of the pan any better than a new clean gasket.

Get the weld on bungs for the pan, you will not regret it.

Chris@Rvengeperformance

03-15-2013, 11:46 AM

oh and that threaded section looks like a restriction. look how much of the internal diameter is lost.

n2nsanity

03-15-2013, 11:55 AM

That sucks having leaks even with a new pan and all. I'm sure something will leak for me too. I hear a lot of stories of leaks. This is one reason I'm trying different things. Also, some "right stuff" might help prevent leaks.

Updated my 1st page. Almost forgot about the oil cooler, lol.

Chris@Rvengeperformance

03-15-2013, 11:59 AM

I don't understand if you are going to weld the nut to the pan why you don't just weld the bung to the pan and be done with it?

n2nsanity

03-15-2013, 04:42 PM

i may just go with the weld on fittings instead. The idea was for it to be either not require welding or be more secure with bolt and weld holding it

familyMAN

03-17-2013, 03:05 PM

oh and that threaded section looks like a restriction. look how much of the internal diameter is lost.

QFT. You want as big of drain and fittings as possible. I used the aluminum bolt on -10AN fittings that bolt to stock TT pan. Also gasket matched them by drilling out the mounting side with a stepped drill bit in both the turbo and pan fittings.

Blackmount

03-17-2013, 06:26 PM

subbed

n2nsanity

03-17-2013, 08:38 PM

I changed my order to the weld on fittings. I'm not sure if the internal diameter was lost on the others or not. Hard to tell from the pics, but it doesn't matter now anyway. The weld-on's are also cheaper.

Anyone have some precats or better yet, some precat deletes?

Also, recommended oil cooler?

n2nsanity

04-06-2013, 01:26 PM

oil cooler
http://i48.tinypic.com/29woaoj.jpg

new tt oil housing
http://i47.tinypic.com/73kjro.jpg

Test Fitting *I think this is right...
http://i49.tinypic.com/34oavd0.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/29esq4h.jpg
*Looks like my rear actuator needs to be replaced. I'm considering an upgrade kit with wrx diaphrams

Coming along, mostly just need a front o2 housing and oil cooler lines. Should be starting this project first week of May :)

IPD

04-06-2013, 01:47 PM

nice! keep us posted.

futurevr4man

04-06-2013, 02:32 PM

man, i just dont know how you can justify putting 9b's on that engine. such a restriction. on a side note, im sure you will hit full boost by like 1200 rpm's haha

n2nsanity

04-06-2013, 02:39 PM

man, i just dont know how you can justify putting 9b's on that engine. such a restriction. on a side note, im sure you will hit full boost by like 1200 rpm's haha

That's the idea :)
How's yours doing btw?

n2nsanity

04-06-2013, 02:41 PM

Jimvr4

04-06-2013, 02:46 PM

My rear actuator looks damaged. What do you guys think of this kit? I'm thinking about option #3. Or would it be better to get some 13t's or something?
3000GT/Stealth International Message Center (http://www.3si.org/forum/f4/official-td04-wastegate-upgrade-kit-541218/)

I don't think he's selling option 3 at this point. Funny because he sells the WRX springs separately. I'm on the waiting list but I'm pulling out because I found a set already to ship.

n2nsanity

04-06-2013, 02:57 PM

I don't think he's selling option 3 at this point. Funny because he sells the WRX springs separately. I'm on the waiting list but I'm pulling out because I found a set already to ship.

Where from? If I'm rebuilding, I'm upgrading, lol.

Jimvr4

04-06-2013, 03:10 PM

Got them from a guy who decided to go to TD05 instead.

TurboSinceBirth

04-06-2013, 09:00 PM

I have option #3. They worked great up to 31.6 psi. I turned it down because I feared my stock motor wouldn't survive. They work really well though. 11 psi they crack open and by 19 they were fully open. Stock cracked open about 5 psi and was fully open by about 10 so it was definitely a big improvement - better spool and more torque.

n2nsanity

04-08-2013, 04:04 AM

More parts on the way :)

Still need to figure out resistors. Either that or find some high impedance 450s or something.

Really excited about the new plugs and especially not having to gap them.

Not sure how to do the oil cooler lines or what size fittings/adapters I need. I'm guessing I need some NPT to -10AN adapters on the oil housing?
*Metric to -AN adapters (16mm x 1.5 to -10AN) Thanks Jordan

I don't want to waste money on new lines, but I'd really like all new coolant feed/returns and oil feeds to match my nice new oil returns. Now I'm just being picky, lol.

If I get a new boost gauge, I'm going to want 3 new matching gauges, lol. Preferably some combo gauges, that are slightly larger than stock and I can stuff in the dash instead of using the oem cluster. But I guess this isn't really important right now. Plus I do already have an A-pillar pod and used mechanical boost gauge I could run.

I should probably track down new studs for the turbos. At least one of them are broken. (links would be greatly appreciated)

I have a ton of extra exhaust bolts. Also have 1 turbo exhaust-side and 2 manifold-side gaskets, but I still need gaskets for the front o2 housing.

Considering having someone inspect and clean up the turbos. Also considering sending them off for rebuild/upgrades, but may be short on time for that.

Against my original plans, I'll probably wait on the oil pan fittings until I have everything else done to be absolutely sure I line them up properly.

What's the brass plug on the oil filter housing for? I thought the front oil feed might come from here, but that thing's huge.
*Found the oil feed. It's small, same size as the mounting holes, so it didn't stand out right away. Brass plug is oil cooler bypass. Thanks Jim.

*I'm sure I called some stuff by the wrong names just now, but hope it makes sense... it's after 4am, I'll look it up later, lol

J_Parker

04-08-2013, 05:01 AM

Just in case you don't get to Facebook before here, the threads into the filter housing are a 16mm - 1.5 pitch. Most auto shops that sell the fittings should have ones that will work and accept your cooler lines.

Jimvr4

04-08-2013, 09:55 AM

The brass plug on the oil filter housing is the valve for the oil cooler bypass. At 200C the valve closes, directing the flow through the oil cooler.

n2nsanity

04-12-2013, 03:03 PM

Trying to figure out how I want to mount the oil cooler. I don't think it will matter much but want to have the best oil flow possible. Without some crazy brackets, I'll have to mount my oil cooler with the ports facing down or to the outside. I'm thinking of facing them to the side in hopes that it will flow or drain better.
But, to do it this way, I need to know which is the feed and which is the return. Numbered in this pic.
http://i47.tinypic.com/xnwa3n.jpg

If there's no benefit to doing this, I'll just mount it with ports facing down and it won't matter which is which. Maybe I'm over-thinking this. Just thought I'd put it out there for suggestions.

n2nsanity

04-12-2013, 03:13 PM

Another thing, how much pressure is really needed for the oil feeds? I don't have a port available on the block (it's welded up).
I have a single port on the oil pump and single port on the tt oil filter housing to work with. I'm not sure what's the better option.
1 sensor/gauge sender and 1 turbo oil feed on each port using a T?
Or both turbo oil feeds on the oil filter housing and just sensor/gauge sender on the oil pump housing? (leaning towards this)
It seems like the rear turbo fails more often for people and I think this maybe related to uneven oil distribution. That or not having as much air flowing across as the front does.
Again, maybe I'm over-thinking this, but just seeing what you guys think.

futurevr4man

04-12-2013, 06:45 PM

1. check out this pic

http://www.3sx.com/store/catalog/stock-oil-cooler-line-diagram-400.gif

thats from 3sx... the port closest to the front of your car is the feed. if you go with ports on the side, you should have the feed on the bottom, so the oil cooler stays full.

2. get a sandwhich plate for your oil filter. problem solved.

n2nsanity

04-13-2013, 01:26 AM

Thanks, this is pic is showing engine side of housing, so #2 (higher, facing front of car) is the feed, and #1 (lower, facing block) is the return.
The pic above is my tt oil filter housing. I'll be using that instead of a sandwich plate because when I asked about it earlier everyone was saying not to use it.
I was thinking of putting the feed up top if I mount cooler sideways to help with the flow. I'm going with custom braided lines for this also and might make my own. Already ordered the metric to AN adapters. Just need some -10AN lines and to figure out if I need 45 or 90 degree fittings. Think I need 45's for the housing and 90's for the cooler. These lines are so thick I need to make sure the length is dead on.

*I guess I also need a gasket for the housing. Couldn't find it anywhere in the box :(

n2nsanity

04-17-2013, 10:26 PM

n2nsanity

04-22-2013, 11:47 PM

Some test fitting now that I have all the peices
http://i35.tinypic.com/t7n28l.jpg

futurevr4man

04-23-2013, 01:19 PM

That will never fit!!

I keed I keed.

Blackmount

04-23-2013, 04:54 PM

some pretty looking parts there! will look even better once it gets nice and hot and turns all its fancy natural colors.

Greg E

04-23-2013, 08:40 PM

Painted the front o2 housing. Still need a gasket o2 plug for it.
Some black high temp ceramic manifold paint. I'll do this for all my exhaust parts that aren't stainless. Would be nice if they made a gloss.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2e5p6br.jpg

Send them to me. I got A LOT left over!

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/164948_10200865089730676_1193238206_n.jpg
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/559017_10200865089410668_681703901_n.jpg

n2nsanity

04-23-2013, 11:18 PM

Look pretty good Greg. Doubt I have time for that now. Would have to find spare parts :p

How much would you charge though?

n2nsanity

04-25-2013, 05:11 AM

Another question.... do I need a vacuum distribution block? I would think 3 ports would be enough to cover both actuators and boost gauge. I have a ton of plastic vacuum splitters and could probably use those, but it would be so cheap to get a distribution block and would probably make it look better. I already did the vacuum reduction on my current setup. Only have 1 line going from rear valve cover to intake. Also, what would I do with that once I do the blow through setup with the gm maf?

TUFFTR

04-25-2013, 07:14 AM

I would do that but mount it behind the intake manifold. That shit just looks ugly in the engine bay. Plus like you said you get the option to run more vac feeds if need be.

n2nsanity

04-30-2013, 07:13 PM

n2nsanity

05-10-2013, 12:37 PM

Car's up on jackstands and halfway taken apart. Project has officially started :)

One last "Before" pic
5380

Didn't turn out quite like I had planned, lol. Also, found out I wired them wrong, anyway.
5382

Getting started
5381

*So I found out I did the resistors wrong. I was thinking the shared wires were the ground and the individuals were power. It's other way around.
Mixed color wires go to ecu and are the switched grounds instead of switched power.
So, I need to add resistors into the power wires (typically red, thicker and junctioned together before the connector).
Good thing I have extra harnesses and resistors for just such a situation :p

*Also believe the power wires are the thicker gauge. And for the front injectors, if you pop the hood and look down at the clips, positive is on the right. Rear would be on the left.
*Pretty sure this is right. Someone correct me if I'm wrong and I'll update, so I'm not putting any misinformation out there.

n2nsanity

05-14-2013, 01:12 AM

PS intercooler mounted. This was by far the easiest step. I think I have to drill holes for the driver side, right?
5385

*Wow, should've cleaned it first, lol
5386

Somewhere in the middle of all this, I decided to go ahead and do the ABS delete. That actually took me a good bit of the weekend. With working Saturday and Sunday and also Sunday being Mothers Day, I only had about 8 hours to work with.

green-lantern

05-14-2013, 06:49 AM

I think I figured out how I'm going to mount the oil cooler. Sideways with lines facing outward. I'll need a 24" and 28" hose with 90 degree fittings on the oil cooler side and probably 45 or 90 degree swivel fittings to the oil filter housing.
5341

Only one hole lined up at the top so I'm rigging up a simple bracket for the bottom.
5342

Adapters on the housing. (M16x1.5 to -10AN)
*upload pic

Not sure if I'm understanding right but the oil cooler really needs to be straight up and down or the efficiency will suffer big time.

PS intercooler mounted. This was by far the easiest step. I think I have to drill holes for the driver side, right?

Yes you have to cut a hole.

I just found this pic with a quick search. It should give you a good idea what you need to do.

http://www.3si.org/forum/attachments/f53/39706d1088064101-need-intercooler-help-tt-10.jpg

n2nsanity

05-14-2013, 11:24 PM

Engine's out

Without removing the hood. TIGHT squeeze! :p
5389

5390

5391

*sitting pretty stable, but should probably zip tie compressor in place just in case
5392

n2nsanity

05-14-2013, 11:51 PM

Trans off
5482

Think I need to resurface the flywheel? Feels pretty flat to me.
5483

Not easy to see from pic, but clutch is as smooth as glass.... Explains why it was slipping recently. Oh well, glad it started slipping before I started the conversion, lol. Would've been pissed if I had to take the trans off a few days after completing this project.
5484

This homemade tool helps a lot with removing and installing flywheel. It's actually part of my homemade crankpulley removal tool. Basically 2 metal bars, 1 long/1short forming with 2 holes drilled in each. Together they form a Y. This is the shorter piece and works perfectly for flywheel too. If you don't have a drill press at home, ninjaperformance sells a nicer tool for cheap.
5485

I run the long bolt through the sleeved hole on the engine, but there are a number of ways you can do this.
5486

n2nsanity

05-14-2013, 11:54 PM

Tranny was brown, lol. I didn't clean it too good the 1st time. A few years ago it had mud caked on it where bees or something had built nests on it. I scraped that off but never really cleaned it. So attempted some cleaning this time around.

Hit it with some wire wheels, was taking forever
5487

This (nylon I think) attachment worked MUCH better :)
5488

Got bored with this and moved onto other things. Pretty sure this thing will need replacing soon anyway lol.

n2nsanity

05-15-2013, 12:07 AM

Front manifold on. Not sure I like that PTU location so much any more. And looks like my dipstick is leaking. Don't remember that being a problem before.
5399
*Later on I moved PTU to side under coilpack with a makeshift bracket.
*Also, later I used a new oring on the dipstick tube.
*Also, ended up putting the stock manifold on later.

I was wondering why the old manifold came off so easily but then I remembered what I did the day before....
5398
*This magical concoction = ATF/Acetone mixture

Seriously, I could have removed those exhaust manifold bolts with a stubby 1/4" drive ratchet :)

n2nsanity

05-15-2013, 12:22 AM

Not sure if I'm understanding right but the oil cooler really needs to be straight up and down or the efficiency will suffer big time.
Yes you have to cut a hole.

I just found this pic with a quick search. It should give you a good idea what you need to do.

Thanks, yeah I'm pretty sure I've seen a pic before and looked like they did it with a hole saw for a cleaner look. But hacking wide open allows for easier install, better ventilation and larger pipes in the future.
I'll figure something out. I have a few toys that can cut metal :)

For the oil cooler, I've seen them mounted sideways MANY times. You sure this is going to be a problem?
OEM has ports on top, I believe. Which will be a REAL PITA to pull off using the one I have.

green-lantern

05-15-2013, 09:06 AM

For the oil cooler, I've seen them mounted sideways MANY times. You sure this is going to be a problem?

Yep, of course it matters how much of an angle but the more it leans the less efficient it becomes. You've never seen a car built with a flat radiator have you? :p
Edit: I should say though if you build ducting to force air into it then it will help a lot.

+1 on the PTU, looks like you might have trouble with it mounted there.

The build is coming along nicely, sorry if I missed this but are you going to run some kind of LSD?

Also some of your pics aren't working.

n2nsanity

05-19-2013, 10:38 AM

Need to fix the pics. Not sure what happened.
*Pics fixed.

Stainless manifolds are causing some fitment issues that I don't feel like dealing with atm. Going back to stock tt manifolds for now.

Oil returns are proving to be a real pita. The 1st set of flange adapters fit, but didn't leave room for those monstrous lines to attach. The 2nd set are 2 pieces each and make it sit lower. So I'm having a hard time lining them up to oil pan in stock location. I have weld-on fittings so I could put them anywhere but trying to get the most effective drain possible. Lines are mostly likely going to need some adjusting.

I have 2 broken studs in the front turbo housing. I've replaced all the missing ones already. Anyway, these 2 are killing me. I've tried all kinds of stuff and can't break them free. Guess I need to find a machine shop.

I thought I had another problem, but figured out a solution. My rear oil feed setup is going to be ridiculous. I'm improvising a few things to make this work.
I'm not sure why the oil feeds were m10 up front and m12 in rear. But the rear has a removable adapter. Pull it off and it's an m10 just like the front.
So now my ss line with the m10 banjo fitting fits :)
Mounted the axle to the block to check for clearance and looks good. Close, but should be fine.

Also can't really do the tt oil filter housing until after the oil pan. Can't do the oil pan until I get everything fitted so I can mark spots for weld-on return fittings. These broken studs and returns are the hold up now.

n2nsanity

05-19-2013, 04:01 PM

Wow, I knew most people replaced the front motor mount bracket, but thought that was mostly due to oil return.
No way I'm getting the front turbo to fit with this bracket on, unless I hack it all to hell, which I have considered, lol.
Anyway, guess I need a front TT mount bracket.
This is going to slow progress :(

*Have a tt front mount bracket lined up for cheap, but won't have it for a while. I ended up hacking the mount all to hell, lol.

green-lantern

05-19-2013, 06:02 PM

Anyway, guess I need a front TT mount bracket.
This is going to slow progress :(

lol hang in there man, this stuff happens with builds like this. Don't rush it.

The oil drain lines, I think I had to screw the large line onto the fitting then bolt the fitting on, on my old set (or vice versa). It's been a while so....

n2nsanity

05-19-2013, 07:48 PM

Yeah, I'm sure I'll get it eventually. Was really hoping to be done this weekend. But things rarely go as planned.

Oh and not doing lsd at the moment. Once I destroy this transmission, I'll go from there, lol. Unless I find a cheap 2g trans, maybe awd even. I don't want to mess with this trans again until I have to or until I have a spare to work on.

green-lantern

05-19-2013, 08:00 PM

I know what you mean, if you need any little things LMK, I have a good bit of parts piled up.

The trans will last if you don't try and launch it. The clutch, be careful of all that torque.

n2nsanity

05-20-2013, 03:40 AM

Was hoping to run it at the track next weekend. Not so sure if that's a good idea, but may still be possible.

futurevr4man

05-20-2013, 12:37 PM

i have a concern with m10 oil feeds. there is such a thing as feeding your turbos too much oil...

Jimvr4

05-20-2013, 03:40 PM

i have a concern with m10 oil feeds. there is such a thing as feeding your turbos too much oil...

I try to stay OEM whenever possible. It seems to me that oil pressure would be affected by changes in the pipe diameters to the turbos since these would then become lower resistance pathways as compared to the paths through the crank and block.

green-lantern

05-20-2013, 03:50 PM

I try to stay OEM whenever possible. It seems to me that oil pressure would be affected by changes in the pipe diameters to the turbos since these would then become lower resistance pathways as compared to the paths through the crank and block.

Me too, my main fear would be too much pressure on the turbo seals causing them to leak and wear out quicker. Seems like a lot of people run bigger lines without trouble though.

BTW I'm sure stock isn't going to fit his setup so not a lot of choice I guess.

n2nsanity

05-20-2013, 05:14 PM

i have a concern with m10 oil feeds. there is such a thing as feeding your turbos too much oil...

m10 is the size of the stock line fittings, lol
Using stock hardline to oil filter housing up front (has reducer)
Using braided ss line for rear (10mm banjo on turbo, -4AN fitting to my adapter at engine also has reducer)
There was a 12mm adapter on the rear turbo. I took that off so that the 10mm banjo would fit. Perfect :)

futurevr4man

05-20-2013, 05:21 PM

-4AN to -10AN? hmm. ok :dontknow2:

n2nsanity

05-20-2013, 06:44 PM

-4AN to -10AN? hmm. ok :dontknow2:

Didn't say -10AN, lol.
Said 10mm banjo bolt with reducer

This is almost all oem stuff here :p

*Here's a pic of the adapter I removed from rear turbo.
5489
This takes the rear line from an m12 down to an m10.
For anyone using custom lines, they will probably also have to remove this.

futurevr4man

05-20-2013, 10:15 PM

ah - i see. reading comprehension > me

n2nsanity

05-21-2013, 12:51 PM

all good, lol

Think I have a work around in place for the front motor mount. Other people have said they ground down the na bracket without any issues. I have tt bracket (hopefully on the way shortly) but this should work for now.
My thinking on this is that 4 bolts are holding the entire engine up on a stand all from one side. Surely 1/4 of the engine's weight can be supported by a bracket that's not quite so beefy. Also if that engine brace plate (1 piece mounting front to rear that eliminates need for front, rear and possibly trans mount) works for high power builds, I don't see a problem. I will probably switch to the tt bracket later, but don't think there is really a need.

I have to redo the resistors for the injectors. I had them wrong. Reading through a bunch of threads in various places and asking many questions, I think I understand now. I'll document this stuff pretty well. There's a lot of misinformation out there. I hope to put together some documentation that covers everything and explains why. I'm one of those people who don't just want to know what to do, but why and exactly how to do it.

n2nsanity

05-28-2013, 02:48 AM

Front motor mount bracket took me a few tries. I thought it was good the 1st time.
5474
Had it smoothed out and painted and everything.
5475

But after installing it was still a little too tight. Shaved it a little more. This time turbo fit much better and I thought it was good until I tried to install the oil return.
5476
*Argh! Think I may have forgot to scrape that old return gasket off.

Had to take it off AGAIN and shave much more off. After all said and done, I practically cut the thing in half, lol.
5477

n2nsanity

05-28-2013, 03:10 AM

Oil pan off
5478

Weld-on return fittings. Pan is aluminum on the top part and steel on the lower section, so my stainless steel fittings were no good. After a few hours of running all over town I found a place that had the aluminum fittings and were able to weld them on for me. $25 for both fittings and $40 for the welding. Not too bad.
5479

Only problem was they only had -8AN. I was impatient because I was hoping I could somehow miraculously finish the car in time for the track meet so went ahead and got these welded on, but my lines were -10AN, so I had to do some more running around to figure out what to do about the lines. Ended up finding some adapters that are pretty ridiculous lol. Patience can save you a lot of time and money and headaches in the end.

Took the bottom tray out and washed everything out with warm soapy water followed by some mean green and scrubbing. Installed pan back on the motor. Mounted both returns.
Here's the front.
5480

*I should have mounted the returns a little lower and probably should have used a straight and 45 instead of two 45's on each hose. Also, the AC compressor sits scary close once mounted. Some minor adjusting or some different adapters should take care of that.

n2nsanity

05-28-2013, 03:15 AM

Oh and my new downpipe wasn't fitting so well. I blame the 3sx rear precat delete. That thing was way off. Hopefully I can find a used rear precat and gut it.
Thought I'd try spacers. No one had any, so I made my own from the old ebay n/a downpipe.
5481

n2nsanity

05-28-2013, 02:55 PM

That will never fit!!

I keed I keed.

Actually you were right. All kinds of hell trying to get the pipes to line up. That rear precat delete is angled way off. More than 2" gap between the two sections of the downpipe

Blackmount

05-28-2013, 03:05 PM

go to harbor freight and pick up a Flux welder!! won't be pretty but it'll get your job done lol.

n2nsanity

05-28-2013, 04:09 PM

I had a wire fed welder a while back. I tried to use it, but failed horribly. Ended up with nothing but a pile of little metal balls that didn't stick to anything lol

Blackmount

05-28-2013, 04:22 PM

lol were you welding aluminum?

futurevr4man

05-28-2013, 05:22 PM

n2nsanity

05-28-2013, 07:40 PM

im not the biggest fan of 3sx's stuff, but i was legitimately kidding. sucks that its not fitting correctly.

before anyone else says it, and im sure you are already aware, but that oil return being angled down like that is concerning. you dont want the oil to back up into the turbo, thats bad news bears.

Never even tried aluminum. I was trying to learn how to weld on an old broken wrench and some other scrap metal. I had 0 success and just made a mess lol. Welding is an art I'll save for later. Found a pretty awesome welder right down the road I'll take my stuff to until then.

I know the returns didn't turn out near as good as I hoped. Back is pretty decent. Front is harder to angle correctly because it sits so much lower. I'll change out the end with a straight fitting later. I think as long as the turbo side of the hose is higher than the end on the pan, it will drain well enough.

n2nsanity

05-28-2013, 09:43 PM

TT oil filter housing installed with new gasket and Fragola adapters (M16 x 1.5 to -10AN)
5490

Flywheel back on
5491
*There's my makeshift tool still hanging there, lol

Segmented kevlar clutch. Hopefully should last at least as long as my weak fwd trans
5492

New pressure plate
5493

I completely forgot to install the new throw out bearing. Old one only has about 10k miles on it, so I think I'll be fine. Definitely not worth pulling the trans back off lol.

n2nsanity

05-28-2013, 09:57 PM

And at around 4am Saturday, she's back in the car.
5494

n2nsanity

05-28-2013, 10:54 PM

Loosened up the ac drier and lines and bent them out of the way as much as I could. Would be much easier without these. I also deleted the power steering cooler loop. This leads to what you see at this point.

I had already cut this area out, but needed to trim some more to allow enough room to install the hose clamps. It is stupid tight in there. Anyway, I cut away as much as I could and only left areas with bolt holes. I tried grinding down on the lip at the frame (straight edge in the pic) but went through 2 wheels before giving up and calling it good enough. That edge is the part that's the problem anyway. I painted everything I ground down to prevent rust or corrosion or whatever. Seemed like a good idea. Probably should have used rubberized undercoating on the bottom. This would also help prevent slicing fingers open on those sharp edges. I smoothed them down a bit before painting, but it's still a little sharp.

Bottom view, where I did most of the cutting from
5495

Top View
5496

You could possibly mount the hoses to the SMIC before actually mounting the SMIC. I did this for the small piece (9" or so C shaped hose) and I think that helped a lot. The longer hose needs to come off about as often as the cruise control box, so I made sure it can be installed / uninstalled as easily as possible.

Piping attached to DS SMIC
5497

n2nsanity

05-29-2013, 08:45 PM

I mentioned earlier about the PTU sitting uncomfortably close the front exhaust manifold. I decided to move it to the typical location for the 6g72's. I couldn't find a good way to mount this as-is and I'm pretty sure I have a bracket from a 3.0 somewhere, but couldn't find it. Was faster to just make my own and I think it turned out good enough for the time being.

5498

5499

5500

Some more rigging.... My oil cooler wasn't fitting too well in the DS wheel well. Decided to route it up front for now.
But, horns were in the way, so I moved them.
5501
Not the prettiest, but I deal more with this later.

n2nsanity

05-29-2013, 09:28 PM

Tight fit in there. Now I see why they use banjo bolts everywhere, lol.

5502

5505

Oil Cooler fits snug in the bumper. It's wedged in there pretty tight and the braided lines are so stiff, it can't move at all. Zip tied it in place anyway. Also realized after that I should have flipped it around so the tabs aren't facing outward like that. But this is temporary, so I can live with it for now. Not worth the effort to flip it around at this point. Also, I now see why people take the bumper off to do this stuff. If it ends up working ok and no leaks or anything, I plan on sticking with it for now. This one would have fit perfectly in the wheelwell if not for the smic. And I plan on getting an fmic at soon anyway. Hopefully a 99 front bumper at the same time :)
5506

*Update
Adjusted oil cooler lines. No longer touching subframe support. Hard to tell from this pic, but there's a good 1/4" or so of clearance. My poly mounts won't allow for much movement either. Still, banjo bolts would fit so much better and you can get a socket on them instead of fighting to fit a wrench on there.
5533

Bloodlust182

05-30-2013, 10:27 AM

Thats one clean A/C compressor. BTW how are you routing coolant to the turbos? or are you just bypassing them?

n2nsanity

05-30-2013, 11:57 AM

Compressor is a reman I got a couple years ago. Only $180 and still works great :)

Haven't quite figured out the plumbing for coolant lines. A lot of people run without them, so I think I'll be fine whatever I do. Just trying to figure out exactly how I'm going to run them. I do have some fittings on there already a 90* bend and straight pipe for each. Just need to attach hoses to them and have something to tap into. Was thinking about putting T's on the heater hoses, but may take my water housing to the shop and have fittings welded on.

Here's what I have. I'm worried the metal doesn't extend far enough from the turbos and may melt any hose on them. I might still clean up the stock lines and use them instead. Banjo bolts were pretty nasty, so I'd want new ones. That's one reason I got these. Newer cleaner, and larger diameter so I can run whatever hoses I want. Only $25 for all 4 pieces with banjo bolts and crush washers.

Using these for feeds, mounted out away from engine and open end up.
5508

I'll get some pics on the car later.
Using these for returns, in towards engine and open down and towards passenger side.
5507

n2nsanity

06-05-2013, 03:24 PM

So I'm still fighting with the oil returns. I had to get some ridiculously bulky adapters for both at the oil pan. The front was sitting right on the ac compressor and worse, the rear was in the way of the axle. I ordered some smaller adapters and now the front is good and the rear is better, but still touching the axle. So no good on the rear.

New front return adapter. Just enough clearance from ac compressor.
5531

New rear return adapter. Better than before but still barely rubbing axle. No bueno.
5532

Think I found the answer. A local machinery supply store has a 45 degree adapter. Only $10, so I'm going to try this before completely abandoning my current setup. I can always redo it later, but really want to get this thing finished for now so I can work on ironing out all the other problems I may run into. If I would have just done -8AN returns to begin with, I would have saved SOOO much time and money and headaches. Better placement of the weld-on return fittings would have worked also, but the -10AN lines are just so stiff and hard to manipulate as well as so large, it's hard to fit them anywhere.

The oil returns have by far been the biggest pita and the most expensive part of this project.

futurevr4man

06-07-2013, 12:57 AM

you will figure it out, but you are right that they SUCK to fight with.

n2nsanity

06-08-2013, 12:23 AM

Good bit of stuff done today :)

Intake assembly test fitting
5535

Plenum and throttle body on. Can see my resistors. Working on a good way to mount them.
5536

I reloomed my harness from the firewall to the engine. Didn't come out as good as before.

It's been raining more than not last few days with no end in sight. Every time there is a little break in the weather I get back out and have at it some more.

n2nsanity

06-08-2013, 12:25 AM

Mostly done. Ton of little things left.

One last pic before firing her up.
5534

n2nsanity

06-08-2013, 01:22 AM

She's alive :)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=256750621130566

CoopKill

06-08-2013, 01:22 AM

Damn ya beat me. Good luck with the fireup!

CoopKill

06-08-2013, 01:23 AM

LOL Nice, as I post the same time you throw up a vid!

n2nsanity

06-08-2013, 01:25 AM

And I haz boost :)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=256751617797133

But no downpipe, lol

n2nsanity

06-08-2013, 01:28 AM

LOL Nice, as I post the same time you throw up a vid!

LMAO, yeah I got a little anxious.

You haven't started yours up yet?

Know how bad your downpipe fit? Yeah, think mines a bit worse. Couldn't resist tho :p

Blackmount

06-08-2013, 04:07 AM

nice dude. enjoy it :)

n2nsanity

06-08-2013, 07:58 PM

Thanks man, I'm sure I will if I ever finish. Not that I know the meaning of that, lol.

Sort of mounted the downpipe today. It touches the subframe :( and there's a 3" gap between the front and rear section. I ground off a little of the downpipe flange as well as some of the subframe and it took a little force to get it on there. I'm thinking for now, I may just stack some flanges (for spacers) and use some really long bolts. I already have one under the front o2 housing and rear precat delete and the downpipe still touches the oilpan. I only had 2 to work with, but think I need about 8 more. Shit's ridiculous. Needs a 3/4" drop for the front and rear and then the huge 3" gap in the middle section closed.

Need to extend o2 sensor. Doesn't reach either bung on the m2 downpipe. Going from a fed spec n/a with only a single o2 right before the cat. Think I'm supposed to have 2 or 4 now. Haven't figured out how I'm going to handle this yet, but I'm told I can just turn off the unused o2's with chrome. I may try to add a 2nd o2 with the unused connector and pins for jesters ecu or combine signals for front and rear o2. Hopefully one of these options are possible.

Also, my downpipe is 3" and cat is 2.5". So only 1 hole lines up. Good enough for testing purposes. I think can get away with extending the holes on the downpipe flange or I could throw on my testpipe for now. But I also have inspection due this month.

Hooked up the vacuum distribution block and all the vacuum lines that I think I actually need. But think I did wrong, lol. Where should I feed this thing from?

Tidied up a few things under the hood.

Added some gear oil, put the wheels back on.

Moved her out of the driveway by her own power. Was tempted to cruise around the neighborhood, but I've already found a leak at the rear feed and one of the oil cooler lines. Clutch feels nice. Not the least bit chattery... don't think I'll be missing the 6 puck one bit :p

Cleaned up the mess I made in the driveway.

On top of the exhaust and o2 issues, still need to fix the leaky oil lines, finish bleeding brakes and add some power steering fluid.
Deleted my ps cooler loop and almost relocated the reservoir to the firewall. I've changed more than enough things already, so think I'll wait on that.

And start logging at some point

n2nsanity

06-09-2013, 01:40 AM

Some other misc stuff...

This bolt kit was very helpful for things like the smic's and all kind of misc brackets. It's too easy to lose bolts. Was well worth the $6.
5543

Old ECU vs Jesters
5544

Looking to create a bracket to mount this thing to one of these locations. May also just drill some self tapping screws into the floor.
5545

Tinkering with vacuum manifold
5546

My take on the resistor block. Plan is to mount them under those 3 connectors.
5547

Oh and that blue coupler has got to go, lol

n2nsanity

06-09-2013, 01:41 AM

Rear precat delete is pushing back into the subframe which is also pushing the downpipe back into the subframe. Rather than take it off and try to fix it some more, I'm trying to make it work. Getting an old oem rear precat from another member just in case. I've been tempted to trash this thing a few times already. Maybe even melt it down.

Hit the edge of the subframe with a grinder to try to allow just enough room for it to bolt up.
5548

Attached the rear section of downpipe, then the front section. Ended up with this humongous gap under the oil pan.
5549

This thing has been a real PITA. I bet I would have had better luck getting my old n/a downpipe to fit, lol

n2nsanity

06-09-2013, 01:52 AM

Another vid or 2 coming

futurevr4man

06-09-2013, 02:01 PM

if you have a local welder (sounds easier than it is a lot of the time), cutting that downpipe and welding on an extension piece of metal would be quick, easy, and less than $100. thats definitely what i would do.

CoopKill

06-09-2013, 03:51 PM

under $50 at exhaust shop

n2nsanity

06-09-2013, 07:18 PM

I have an oem rear precat coming. Pretty sure that will make a drastic improvement. Not sure I want to make any permanent changes until after I try that.

Right now it needs to be lengthened on ends toward front and rear manifold. That may also help the center gap. Even with spacers added, it's touching the oil pan so it needs to come down a little lower. I believe they're angled slightly inward and if so, that will help. Between that and the rear precat angled properly, think I"ll probably only need a single spacer to join the sections.

n2nsanity

06-09-2013, 07:36 PM

Finally bled brakes, so I guess my ABS delete is actually finished now :p

Drove it for about a minute, just to the end of the street and back. Testing brakes and boost gauge and checking for leaks.
Tightened up one of the oil cooler lines a hair more. Brakes still have a little air in the lines from the ABS delete.
Topped off power steering fluid. How does a mechanical gauge not work? lol

Blackmount

06-09-2013, 11:42 PM

n2nsanity

06-10-2013, 12:28 AM

Not this much of a gap, lol.
For one thing, I've had this engine in the car for over 2 years and 2 different downpipes lined up fine (1 oem, 1 aftermarket)
Also, the proportion isn't even. It's like 1 inch taller which equals about 1/4" in size added from front to rear.

My guess it's a combination of these 3 things.
Horrible fitment of 3sx rear precat delete = 2" off
6g74 = 1/4" off
m2 downpipe = 3/4" off

Blackmount

06-10-2013, 01:16 AM

funny how the name brand part is the one thats fucked up the most...oh yeah, according to stephen from 3sx its because they can't find welders/fabricators in the US so they went to china.

best excuse for just being cheap that I've ever heard...

Thats like saying, I couldn't find any good seafood on the west coast so I went to Mcdonalds to get a Filet-O-Fish and they gave me a cheeseburger and so I said, meh that'll do fine!

Jimvr4

06-10-2013, 01:50 AM

n2nsanity

06-10-2013, 03:32 AM

Yeah, I test fitted the rear pre cat delete after fitting the stock one. It is probably 1/2 inch off where it is supposed to bolt to the stay. The O2 flange is effed up which I knew about. Plan now is to get rid of the POS and gut the stocker instead.

I might still try to make it work. But, I might also enjoy taking it off to see how far I can throw it.

Already have a used oem part on the way.

n2nsanity

06-13-2013, 11:23 AM

Wired up o2 extension (on engine harness side).
Figure out why boost gauge wasn't working. Forgot I needed a new ferrule, lol.
Flanges will be here tomorrow, so I'm going to try to make it fit

green-lantern

06-13-2013, 11:31 AM

Wired up o2 extension (on engine harness side).

You didn't solder them did you? I forget the reason why and I'm not sure if I really believe it matters if you are a few feet back from the sensor but they say not to solder them.

n2nsanity

06-13-2013, 03:14 PM

I did, but I extended the wires on the engine harness and didn't touch the actual o2 sensor or wires on it.
The deal with the o2 sensors is the wires need to be able to breathe because the sensor itself isn't vented any more.
I've come to the conclusion that as long as you do it anywhere on the other side of the connector, it's fine.

Also if I need to replace my o2 later, I just plug a new one in. Which is also easier, because my connector is now outside the car.
Don't have to touch the center console or pull the heatshield from underneath. But I do have to worry about the connector getting dirty, so I'll wrap it up in something.

green-lantern

06-13-2013, 04:01 PM

n2nsanity

06-16-2013, 07:13 PM

New flanges came in. Installed them for spacers.
Topped off coolant and oil.
Still a little low on gear oil I think. Need to check that again later.

Drove the beast to work tonight :)
Was hard not to spin tires, lol.
This 500 mile break-in is going to be even harder than I thought.

n2nsanity

06-16-2013, 07:15 PM

It's only like 3 miles, but I was going to log the trip.
Having trouble getting evoscan to install.
Anyone else use it on windows 8?
Or do I need to install a vm of xp or something and run it on that?

Chris@Rvengeperformance

06-16-2013, 07:21 PM

mine's running fine on windows 8 pro 2.6 and 2.9

Jimvr4

06-16-2013, 11:41 PM

Check your FTDI drivers for Evoscan. The first version that supported Win 8 was 2.08.26 (Nov 2012). Current version is 2.08.28.

n2nsanity

06-17-2013, 12:34 AM

Check your FTDI drivers for Evoscan. The first version that supported Win 8 was 2.08.26 (Nov 2012). Current version is 2.08.28.

I downloaded the latest version (from jan 2013 I believe). It was giving me shit about .net framework which is already installed...
I'm sure I'll figure out. Just wondering if anyone had compatibility issues.

green-lantern

06-17-2013, 04:17 PM

n2nsanity

06-18-2013, 01:21 AM

Ok, so I logged a mile or 2 of driving with evoscan.
Apparently the default options are only so helpful...

Anyone have some advice on what I should be logging?

And how to turn off front o2 or possibly combine signals? Or any other possible options? I have a 94 base model harness that only had a single o2 sensor right before the cat.

Or is that unused connector on the ac compressor harness the front o2 connector? If that's what it is, the wiring should go all the way to the ecu, right?

*I verified from the evoscan logs that the single o2 sensor I have was seen as the rear primary. I just needed to disable the other o2 sensor bits with ecuflash.

n2nsanity

06-23-2013, 04:49 PM

25 miles on the build so far. Brand new tires up front and it's still like driving on ice, lol.

Worked on the oil leaks a little. Still trying to figure out this chrome stuff. I think turning off all the crap the ecu is looking for but my car doesn't actually have will help a lot. Just need to figure out how to do it.
Having some issues logging what I want and checking codes with evoscan. With a universal code reader I came back with 12 CEL codes, lol. I only have a single narrowband o2. No map sensors, no vacuum solenoids or boost controllers, no egr, no evap. So I've got a handful of ecu issues to fix.

Then I get to battle these oil leaks some more.

Then I also want to install this jdm rear precat, which is awesome because there's nothing in it (like it's pre-gutted) and you can actually install or remove it without taking anything else off and with the engine still in. That is if I can even manage to get this 3sx pipe off.

Also want to try one of those cheap high flow cats. For $30, not much to lose :)

CoopKill

06-23-2013, 05:44 PM

Ok, so I logged a mile or 2 of driving with evoscan.
Apparently the default options are only so helpful...

Anyone have some advice on what I should be logging?

And how to turn off front o2 or possibly combine signals? Or any other possible options? I have a 94 base model harness that only had a single o2 sensor right before the cat.

Or is that unused connector on the ac compressor harness the front o2 connector? If that's what it is, the wiring should go all the way to the ecu, right?

It's all in here: http://www.3sgto.org/tuning-engine-electronics-ecu-discussions/10775-how-tune-your-3-s-using-chrome-flash-ecu.html

futurevr4man

06-23-2013, 09:29 PM

yeah, take a good long look at the link bill posted. use evoscan 2.9 to log, and evoscan 2.6 to check codes. at least, do that until the next version of chrome comes out... i have a strong feeling it will be using 2.6 again.

after you read through the link, if your issues still arent fixed, i will look hard into figuring out how to fix them for you, but everything you have listed so far is straight forward and you just have to play with the peripheries

TUFFTR

06-24-2013, 05:04 AM

Rock one of these mate. I'm using one in my daily :D
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=210&products_id=331&osCsid=21c46b736132bac823af3178c02fb5f1

Chris@Rvengeperformance

06-24-2013, 10:52 AM

n2nsanity

06-24-2013, 11:11 AM

Rock one of these mate. I'm using one in my daily :D
Catalytic Converter (http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=210&products_id=331&osCsid=21c46b736132bac823af3178c02fb5f1)

Wow, it's just a pipe with a cat converter shaped heat shield around it, lol. Stealthy test pipe :p

The other one I was looking at wasn't much better. If I can find a 3" in/out.
89 99 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS RS GST Hi Flow Catalytic Cat Converter | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/350599918549)

I eventually want a real high flow cat, but need something for visual inspection for now. That is if they even check it, lol. I think only once in the last few years they actually put it on the lift to look.

n2nsanity

06-24-2013, 11:16 AM

It's all in here: http://www.3sgto.org/tuning-engine-electronics-ecu-discussions/10775-how-tune-your-3-s-using-chrome-flash-ecu.html

Yeah, I've been reading through it. I need a whole dedicated and uninterrupted day to figure it all out.
I was able to pull codes with one of my other code readers, so maybe it was just mismatched versions.

n2nsanity

09-25-2013, 05:17 AM

Well I got a couple more new tires and passed inspection and renewed registration last month.

Had the feeds on the downpipe extended. Angles were off a little, but I was able to make it work. Still need to take it back to get redone properly. Wish I would have taken the car there to start with but I was scared to drive it that far at the time.

FINALLY figured out the ecuflash issues. It took me a long time to get the software working right. I was using a newer laptop with windows 8 64bit. I ended up using a 32 bit windows xp virtual machine in vmware on the same laptop.
After all that, the big issue ended up being that I had the flash wire on pin 57, but it needed to be on 51 (the one right above it, lol). So anyway, ecu has been successfully flashed and my CEL's are gone. Should run a bit smoother I imagine.

Another test drive tomorrow and video if I don't forget.

Then on to the oil leaks and redo the downpipe. Also want to build my custom hiflow cat, but probably just install my testpipe for now.
I will probably also switch to 8AN returns soon and ditch the unnecessary adapters which should fix half of the oil leaks. I'm pretty sure 10AN was overkill anyway, lol.

n2nsanity

09-29-2013, 12:58 AM

400 miles in thanks to today's meet. Hasn't blown up or anything yet, so I'm happy.

Feels like clutch is slipping in lower rpm's. But after 4k rpm, wow :)

n2nsanity

09-29-2013, 02:47 AM

On the way to a meet. 1st time leaving town with this thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xA6FlQtqWY

Caution, might want to turn volume down a little. It get's stupid loud, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SbCzAhGjMs

mb3000

09-29-2013, 11:46 AM

You weren't kidding about the volume! :lol:

CoopKill

09-29-2013, 04:13 PM

Nice, any issues?

n2nsanity

09-29-2013, 06:10 PM

Nice, any issues?

Clutch is slipping a little at lower RPM's. Hopefully that will go away on it's own, but pretty sure I will at least need to resurface the flywheel though.

Pretty sure I'm getting a backfire or misfire occasionally. Under acceleration with the a/c on and low rpm's or letting completely letting off the gas. I think this may be due to those champion plugs.

The "CEL on knock" feature in chrome works and I think it's pretty useful. My light flashed on a few times. I set it for 3 counts instead of the default of 5, so that's probably ok.

After flashing the ECU to disable all the missing sensors, the CEL is off of course and car is running much smoother.

I still have some oil leaks. The spots it leaves on the driveway make it look worse than it is. Every time I check it reads full, (might lose a qt every 2000 miles) but I won't be happy until they are all cleared up.

n2nsanity

09-29-2013, 06:11 PM

You weren't kidding about the volume! :lol:

I'm not a big video person, but I'm trying. Windows up is probably a good idea, lol.

n2nsanity

10-05-2013, 09:44 PM

504 miles and still kickin :)

beepbeep

10-05-2013, 09:52 PM

It sounds great, Eddie! Great job so far!

Uniuno

03-02-2014, 10:22 PM

Now that you've had it running for a while is there anything you would change about your setup (besides the trans lol (and sorry)) if you were to do it again? What boost are you running? Do you feel that the 9bs are "choking" the engine like everyone thinks they do?

Reason I ask is I am thinking about putting a stock 3.5L in mine with 9bs for now just to get the car running again while I save for building the engine and bigger turbos.

I appreciate the advice!

n2nsanity

03-04-2014, 11:42 AM

Not sure I would have done much differently. Aside from an lsd and beefing up the fwd trans ahead of time, mostly little things.

I don't feel the 9b's are choking it, but something a little bigger would probably be more ideal.
I need some dyno time to really say and figure out which route I want to go. Just having a little fun with it for now :)

I think it would be worth it for you. There's not much to it. You did the tt and awd conversion already, so I'm sure you will do fine.
You will have some issues with the 74 oil pan and the tcase. There are a few options out there for that. I haven't decided or even looked into it too much because I'm keeping this car fwd for now. May just move the engine over to the vr4 project, but not sure yet. There are some downpipe fitment issues. I'm testing some ideas for that now. Probably just going to extend the front and rear precats.