New stereo components for my 94 RT/TT

[Omega-Tron]

I bought this car 2 months ago from GZP.

The audio that came with it:
Head Unit: Alpine 7995
Front Speakers: Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.1s (100w RMS each)
Rear Speakers: Infinity Kappa 693.5 (I'm guessing 100w RMS each)
4-channel amp: Phoenix Gold Titanium 500.4 (75w RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms)
Sub/Amp combo: Infinity Basslink
Capacitor: Rockford Fosgate Prime...something rather.
Current Wire: 4 Gauge from the battery to the Cap, 4 ga from the cap to the PG amp, 8 ga from the cap to the Basslink.

Currently I have pulled the Infinity Basslink because it doesn't allow the glass roof to stow and I didn't like the looks of how it was installed. I also bought a Pioneer DEH-80PRS (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_13080PRS/Pioneer-DEH-80PRS.html?tp=5684) headunit that should arrive this week.

Since the false floor in the back is destroyed from the Infinity Basslink install and because the car didn't come with a spare tire I figure I might as well mount the amps beneath the floor and flush mount the subwoofer in one of the rear corners.

Now I'm trying to figure out what combo of amplifiers and subwoofer I want.
The amplifiers that I have laying around are:
1) Phoenix Gold Ti 500.4 - 75w RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms
2) Rockford Fosgate 451S - 450w RMS x 1 (bridged) @ 4 ohms
3) HiFonics Zeus 4-channel - 85w RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms
4) HiFonics Brutus - 500w RMS x 1 @ 4 ohms OR 1000w RMS x 1 @ 2 ohms OR 1500w RMS @ 1 ohm.

For the sub I'm thinking of going with one of these:
1) Memphis 15-MR12S4 (http://www.memphiscaraudio.com/products/subwoofers/memphis-reference-subwoofers/) - 3" mounting depth, 500w RMS
2) 2012 model Rockford Fosgate P3S (http://rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.aspx?itemid=120427) - 3.65" mounting depth, 400w RMS

The way I see it I have two options (since I don't want to split up the matching HiFonics amps):
Option 1: Use the Phoenix Gold and RF amps which I believe will work with either subwoofer.

Option 2: Use the HiFonics amps and buy the Memphis sub since it will handle more watts. Run the Brutus amp at 4 ohms to get 500w RMS for the sub. This provides 10 more watts to each speaker and 50 more watts to the subwoofer. But these amps are pretty big so fitting them in may be an issue.

Does anyone have any opinions on which amp/sub combo might sound better with the existing speakers?

As far as wiring goes. I'm not sure if 4 gauge wiring for 900-1000w RMS (100 or so amps) is enough. From the bit of research I've done it sounds like 4 gauge will handle it but I've always been a 1/0 gauge guy. I'm not sure if I can afford to be lazy and leave the current 4 gauge in there or should I suck it up and run 1/0?

Any suggestions are welcome as long as they don't involve rebuying things I already have. :biggrin:

[nodoze]

i used to run two kicker comp cvr's in a smokin vr4 box with a 1k watt rockford amp , sounded bad ass bus i had it tuned to be complimentary and not overpowering bass.

[2fnloud]

Follow chart, you should be fine:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa177/2fnloud/Orion%20amplifiers/WireLength.jpg

Also if you added up the fuses in your equipment, I can promise you that under music, not bass tones or sine waves, the total amperage load will never be that high. it will be about a 3rd of that.
great read explaining why. It is hosted by Monster Cable but the tech article was written by a Guru in the 12V electronic field. (http://www.monstercable.com/mpc/stable/tech/A2403_Current_And_Efficiency.pdf)

[2fnloud]

Another thought, why one sub? why not four? drop that HiFonics Brutus down to 1 Ohm and enter sub-frequency nirvana.

Then use the HiFonics Zues for the rest and have matching amplifiers.

I also would of stuck wit the Alpine H/U

[Omega-Tron]

Thanks for the input on the wire size. It's certainly easier to leave the current wire alone.

The Alpine head unit just lacked a lot of features that I wanted.

The reason for just one sub is to keep as much cargo space as possible and to keep weight down. I've done audio builds in my other 2 cars that have killed cargo room and I regret it. Actually, the HiFonics amps along with two 12" L7s came out of my Chevy Impala because I wanted/needed the trunk back.

[2fnloud]

I understand about weight, took me months to find the perfect 8's, 200 WRMS 12mm xmax and only 4.8LBS, thanks to neodymium magnets. Using up the hatch was no issue for me, weekend warrior type car. Rear folded down seats gives me all the cargo space I will ever need.

[nodoze]

knows who i will be talking to next audio build :) , i have always been an alpine fan and love CDA-9886 best reciever they ever made imo . the jeep will be getting a system soon

[95 RT/TT]

Follow chart, you should be fine:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa177/2fnloud/Orion%20amplifiers/WireLength.jpg

Also if you added up the fuses in your equipment, I can promise you that under music, not bass tones or sine waves, the total amperage load will never be that high. it will be about a 3rd of that.
great read explaining why. It is hosted by Monster Cable but the tech article was written by a Guru in the 12V electronic field. (http://www.monstercable.com/mpc/stable/tech/A2403_Current_And_Efficiency.pdf)

Excellent audio site Basic Car Audio Electronics (http://www.bcae1.com) Side note on the wire. A lot of wire for sale on ebay and elseware is not up to spec. Meaning of smaller diameter. Here's an amp wire calculator. http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/systemdesignassistant.swf.com/images/swfs/systemdesignassistant.swf

[Omega-Tron]

Thanks for the link, I found that site at one point but forgot about it. I found a lot of these wire guides during my initial search and all the numbers I ran looked like 4 gauge would be adequate. I just typically like to run 1/0 since usually I'm going from OEM to aftermarket (not aftermarket to aftermarket) so I have to tear the interior apart anyway.

Now my big struggle with this build is figuring out how to arrange the amps and sub to keep cargo space at a maximum. I'm thinking about maybe switching to a small footprint amp or two depending on what I can get them for. I need to call some local audio shops and get some prices. I also made up some cardboard cutouts last night to mimic the size of my current amps so I can easily play around with spacing now.

Last weekend I got the new H/U installed and ran through the auto-EQ and time alignment setup. After a few additional tweaks I'm pretty happy with it. I'll continue to research and tune it. I really like how easy all of the settings are to navigate through and the display is easy to read.

[95 RT/TT]

Thanks for the link, I found that site at one point but forgot about it. I found a lot of these wire guides during my initial search and all the numbers I ran looked like 4 gauge would be adequate. I just typically like to run 1/0 since usually I'm going from OEM to aftermarket (not aftermarket to aftermarket) so I have to tear the interior apart anyway.

Now my big struggle with this build is figuring out how to arrange the amps and sub to keep cargo space at a maximum. I'm thinking about maybe switching to a small footprint amp or two depending on what I can get them for. I need to call some local audio shops and get some prices. I also made up some cardboard cutouts last night to mimic the size of my current amps so I can easily play around with spacing now.

Last weekend I got the new H/U installed and ran through the auto-EQ and time alignment setup. After a few additional tweaks I'm pretty happy with it. I'll continue to research and tune it. I really like how easy all of the settings are to navigate through and the display is easy to read.

Here's an oversized 4G

http://www.knukonceptz.com/images/kitreview/kitreview-tagged.jpg

[2fnloud]

KnuKonceptz is over sized for a reason, they do not use pure copper. I would still use it if it was not for the great packaged deal I got on stinger product from Darvex.com.

I am sure that his 4GA wire would be fine, at least try and measure the voltage for loss.

[95 RT/TT]

I have a 6ch amp bridged x 3 2 for the fronts 1 for a sub. 215w /ch on the fronts the sub ch is about 315w . I've gained more than .65v just switching wire that's the point. Now I'm at just under a .25v loss. As you know with an amp having an un regulated power supply that matters.

[2fnloud]

Indeed, what 6channel are you using?

[Omega-Tron]

I'm just starting to look into Rockford's boosted rail amps ( PBR300X4 (http://rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.aspx?itemid=120465)) So far the 1.53" x 4.25" x 6.75" footprint, good amount of power, and the price ($170 from an authorized dealer) have me intrigued. Small amps with over 40w per channel are hard to find...especially for a decent price.

I'm going to continue researching the PBR300X4 but right now I'm thinking about going with this, use my RF 451S for the sub, and buy the new RF P3SD2 12" shallow mount sub. All of this will easily mount into the floor.

[95 RT/TT]

JL e6450 on my amp

Just looked at the boosted rail vids interesting... It's efficient that's for sure. The biggest wire that fit the input is 10G. I'd want to compare it's sound output to an ab amp though before the install was finalized.

[Omega-Tron]

I'm on my way to completion; just waiting for carpet to arrive. I still need to build the top carpeted panels, a little carpeted wall behind the rear seat with fans in it, and tidy up some wiring.

I went with the RF PBR300X4 amplifier. It sounds every bit as good as the old Phoenix Gold amp. The PBR300X4 is advertised at 75w per channel @ 4 ohms at 14.4v. The birth sheet for my specific PBR300X4 is rated at 89w per channel.

Everything bolts to the floor using the factory mounting locations.

Final Equipment list:
Head Unit: Pioneer DEH-80PRS
Front Speakers: Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.5i components
Rear Speakers: Infinity Kappa 693.5i
Subwoofer: Rockford Fosgate P3SD2-12
Speaker Amp: Rockford Fosgate PBR300X4
Subwoofer Amp: Rockford Fosgate 451S

Comparison pic between the PBR300X4, an iPod touch and a HiFonics Zeus amp which is rated at 85w per channel @ 4 ohms.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ASOmega-TronSS/1994%20Stealth%20RT%20Twin%20Turbo/Stealth%20Audio%20Build/2012-04-20_20-17-48_523.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ASOmega-TronSS/1994%20Stealth%20RT%20Twin%20Turbo/Stealth%20Audio%20Build/2012-04-20_20-33-10_62.jpg

Sound Deadening
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ASOmega-TronSS/1994%20Stealth%20RT%20Twin%20Turbo/Stealth%20Audio%20Build/2012-05-06_14-00-30_302.jpg

3/4" MDF on the floor
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ASOmega-TronSS/1994%20Stealth%20RT%20Twin%20Turbo/Stealth%20Audio%20Build/2012-04-29_10-15-38_63.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ASOmega-TronSS/1994%20Stealth%20RT%20Twin%20Turbo/Stealth%20Audio%20Build/2012-04-29_10-16-01_389.jpg

PBR300X4 wired up to barrier strip to easily connect the speaker wires
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ASOmega-TronSS/1994%20Stealth%20RT%20Twin%20Turbo/Stealth%20Audio%20Build/2012-04-29_18-37-33_637-1.jpg

T-nuts to mount the subwoofer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ASOmega-TronSS/1994%20Stealth%20RT%20Twin%20Turbo/Stealth%20Audio%20Build/2012-05-11_20-50-07_261.jpg

PBR300X4, Tsunami Power/Ground distribution block, remote turn-on relay
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ASOmega-TronSS/1994%20Stealth%20RT%20Twin%20Turbo/Stealth%20Audio%20Build/2012-05-15_18-31-54_480.jpg

Sub box
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ASOmega-TronSS/1994%20Stealth%20RT%20Twin%20Turbo/Stealth%20Audio%20Build/2012-05-15_18-31-34_126.jpg

Amp rack
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/ASOmega-TronSS/1994%20Stealth%20RT%20Twin%20Turbo/Stealth%20Audio%20Build/2012-05-15_18-31-44_941.jpg

[Boost4VR4]

I would be concerned with the depth of your box... You don't have enough cubic feet for that subwoofer, I guarantee you will have stunted bass..

[Omega-Tron]

I wouldn't...it's right in spec.

I have about .98 to .99 cubic feet of air space after accounting for the subwoofer displacement. This subwoofer is rated for a 0.6 to 1.2 cubic feet sealed box with 1 cubic feet recommended.

[Spyder]

KnuKonceptz is over sized for a reason, they do not use pure copper. I would still use it if it was not for the great packaged deal I got on stinger product from Darvex.com.

I am sure that his 4GA wire would be fine, at least try and measure the voltage for loss.
Just to clear something up. KnuKonceptz KCA line its copper clad aluminum their Kolossus line its Oxygen free copper.

[Spyder]

I wouldn't...it's right in spec.

I have about .98 to .99 cubic feet of air space after accounting for the subwoofer displacement. This subwoofer is rated for a 0.6 to 1.2 cubic feet sealed box with 1 cubic feet recommended.
I think he meant for the space between the bottom of the sub and the box its self. Its has a pole vent on it for a reason, restrict that and sub wont last much. I would say you need 1" gap between them.

[Omega-Tron]

I think he meant for the space between the bottom of the sub and the box its self. Its has a pole vent on it for a reason, restrict that and sub wont last much. I would say you need 1" gap between them.

That might make more sense for what the first part is referring to but the statement, "You don't have enough cubic feet for that subwoofer" is incorrect.

I've never seen a minimum depth requirement for the P3S sub but judging by the depth of the pre-loaded P3S enclosures my box is fine. What may be throwing some folks off is that the entire rear floor was raised quite a bit in order to get a nice bit of gap and airspace for the sub. Maybe it doesn't seem like it but I did do *some* planning. :biggrin: