thoughts on crappy boost gauges

[i3igpete]

I know we had a discussion on 3si about slow boost gauges. Originally the problem gauges were prosport, and I recall that the guy from prosport actually made an account to tell me that the needle response on their gauges were fine. well, i have reason to believe that the stri gauges use the same stepper motor as the prosport, since my boost gauge response was about as slow as the one pictured here.




What's interesting to note is that although the sensor is applied the overboost pressure, the warning light doesn't come on immediately... it waits until the needle reaches the warning zone, rather than turning on right away. lazy circuitry if you ask me.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXl7zjY1H9I


needle speed of the prosport gauges:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuLIrLpZx3A

compare that to the needle speed of defi gauges:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vI8LxMipSc

[Austin@STM]

"thoughts on crappy boost gauges" they are CRAP, they give you an idea you have boost thats about it. They are always at least a pound off usually more like 6 pounds off. Thats why i dont run a boost guage at all.

[Atrosity]

I think i had better results from a mechanical boost gauge from autozone then I have seen from prosport. There is not much that can go wrong from a mechanical gauge imo...

My friends prosport gauge was off by 7 PSI compared to the mechanical gauge. That is the very reason why I spent the extra buck on good reliable gauges.

[VR-4 0wnz j00]

I stuck with a mechanical Autometer Cobalt and its doing just fine. I think I paid $80-90 for it.

[milkshakes]

But they look sooooo coooooool. :p

[green-lantern]

I know we had a discussion on 3si about slow boost gauges. Originally the problem gauges were prosport, and I recall that the guy from prosport actually made an account to tell me that the needle response on their gauges were fine. well, i have reason to believe that the stri gauges use the same stepper motor as the prosport, since my boost gauge response was about as slow as the one pictured here.


I definitely remember that thread. If memory serves me well you told the guy to F off. lol

I tried the prosport and didn’t like it or trust it. I have an AEM ready to go in now. I also bought a fuel pressure gauge that reads incorrectly that I will be getting rid of.

[Atrosity]

I have all aem gauges, very satisfied with the results and accuracy of the digital gauges.
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Topic DERAIL

@green fuel pressure gauge nice to have? I have a mechanical one in my engine I just put in.

[green-lantern]

@green fuel pressure gauge nice to have? I have a mechanical one in my engine I just put in.

Yeah I like to have it there to see if I'm running out of fuel but the prosport reads about 8psi off. I have a mechanical one under the hood also. I'm going to replace the PS with an AEM one.

[i3igpete]

I definitely remember that thread. If memory serves me well you told the guy to F off. lol

i honestly think that the guy running prosport didn't have any electrical engineering experience. he very likely asked the chinese guys what he wanted in very vague terms, and they fulfilled his request very cheaply because he didn't specify any perforamnce criteria other than steady-state accuracy.

[R/T93]

Thats why I bought Defi...

[Austin@STM]

AEM guages are about as good as it gets, and i think they are one of the best looking guages.

[Atrosity]

Yeah, I have 5 AEM Gauges except fuel pressure. Wondering if I need it or not... Hhaha!

[i3igpete]

while we're on the topic of AEM gauges, do you guys have any experience monitoring knock with the AEM serial gauges? Do the gauges "hold" the maximum knock counts for very long or does it just flash and then disappear?

[SilverJester]

I had prosports and they are incredibly worthless. Just installed some stack gauges, pics and review here (I had prospotrs and they are incredibly worthless. Just installed some stack gauges, pics and review here http://www.3sgto.org/showthread.php?818-Installed-Stack-Pro-Control-Gauges)

[green-lantern]

i honestly think that the guy running prosport didn't have any electrical engineering experience. he very likely asked the chinese guys what he wanted in very vague terms, and they fulfilled his request very cheaply because he didn't specify any perforamnce criteria other than steady-state accuracy.

I'd say you're right.

I got the two gauges for a little over 100 bucks. They did something different for the opening ceremony, I thought they would do the same thing. They might be pretty to look at but to read them kind of sucks. I liked the autometer better. I guess I would have been happy with the fuel pressure one if it read correctly. I was low on cash so I just decided to give them a shot knowing I might be pulling them out before long. Very cheap = Very cheap.

[11secondFWD]

I have seen rings blown on my friends car from his bad mechanical boost gauge. It was an autometer mechanical and he had no reason to assume it didnt read right. It looked like it worked fine but didnt read right. He was set at 17psi, with all proper fuel mods, according to his gauge. but after a couple passes at the track his rings were gone. When he got rings fixed, I let him try my boost gauge (another autometer pro comp I used for years) and we compared the two gauges.

His autometer read 8 psi, mine read 17psi. Then his read 16psi when mine read 25psi. SO long story short is make sure your gauge is in working order. DOuble check it with another or a source that you know how much is being applied before going all out. And if something feels wrong make sure boost is right.

A crappy gauge cost a whole engine rebuild in only a couple passes. And it was weird because he turned it up little by little but it still kept reading low so he thought it was okay. It barely went up and was still in pump gas territory. But it just went up alot slower than what was correct. He was running 17 psi on pump in his dsm on the bad gauge which was prolly over 26psi in real life.

BTW it was a newer gauge so don't assume just that its a new mechanical gauge that it is 100% accurate. Bad stuff does still get pass quality control.

[DarkHeroKOTRAJ]

This is my option as well:

I have all aem gauges, very satisfied with the results and accuracy of the digital gauges.

[Atrosity]

Another reason why I will not buy Prosport.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRYgHphqukw&feature=player_profilepage

[HLxDrummer]

Man I have an STRI :( I guess I'm not that worried about response time but that is nuts! I have an STRI mechanical before the DSD and I think it was about the same as the DSD. I wonder why they are so slow.

[FeaRpb]

So should I stay with getting Defi or get AEM?

[OhioSpyderman]

I don't know guys, I have a Prosport stepper boost gauge in my Stealth....I got it from my son when I bought him a SBC-iD (built in boost gauge).

Didn't have a clue whether it was accurate or not UNTIL I bought an SBC-iD for the Stealth.

Turns out that they are < 2 PSI apart at ALL times and sometimes dead on....

FWIW, I located my sender as far away from all heat sources that I could (and still keep it under the hood)....and my connections to the boost/vacuum source are SOLID....

Bob.

As of 5/1/11 my Prosport gauge has taken a dump. Worked fine one morning, came out to the car after lunch turned the key and the gauge turned red, screaming, needle pegged full up.....

[VR4]

I have seen rings blown on my friends car from his bad mechanical boost gauge. It was an autometer mechanical and he had no reason to assume it didnt read right. It looked like it worked fine but didnt read right. He was set at 17psi, with all proper fuel mods, according to his gauge. but after a couple passes at the track his rings were gone. When he got rings fixed, I let him try my boost gauge (another autometer pro comp I used for years) and we compared the two gauges.

His autometer read 8 psi, mine read 17psi. Then his read 16psi when mine read 25psi. SO long story short is make sure your gauge is in working order. DOuble check it with another or a source that you know how much is being applied before going all out. And if something feels wrong make sure boost is right.

A crappy gauge cost a whole engine rebuild in only a couple passes. And it was weird because he turned it up little by little but it still kept reading low so he thought it was okay. It barely went up and was still in pump gas territory. But it just went up alot slower than what was correct. He was running 17 psi on pump in his dsm on the bad gauge which was prolly over 26psi in real life.

BTW it was a newer gauge so don't assume just that its a new mechanical gauge that it is 100% accurate. Bad stuff does still get pass quality control.

not the first time i heard of this. i have one in my garage that reads 10 psi at 15.

[Austin@STM]

Nothing is perfect, even the AEM guages should be checked every now and then. We had a customer with a DSM running AEM EMS and AEM boost guage with a sepreate MAP sensor for each. Something seemed off with the boost readins between the dyno, the AEM, and the guage, so after looking into it the sensors were mounted very loosley and were just banging around on the transmission and IC piping and were both bad and both reading completely different.

[cjbyron]

while we're on the topic of AEM gauges, do you guys have any experience monitoring knock with the AEM serial gauges? Do the gauges "hold" the maximum knock counts for very long or does it just flash and then disappear?

I tried a while back to throw in the knock count into the telemetry stream to AEM serial. Never could get it working right. I didn't knock myself out trying but did follow a few instructions on it from AEM. I'm sure there must be a way but after a few decent tries I gave up as it wasn't that important to me to keep on messin with it. I had the same issue when trying to use the trigger output based on parameters (opening ex cutout above xx psi). I REALLY like the serial gauges but the setup is a major PITA unless you stay with default config.

On gauges in general - IMO it does come down to 'you get what you pay for'. There are some differences among like-style gauges sure but that saw holds true to a high degree. The problem is people don't wanna pay the prices for quality stuff sometimes. LOL, I've got 7 really nice black Greddy 60mm warning style gauges I've had for sale at around 40% retail but no takers in this current ecomony because buyers seem to be looking for cheap. Or they want some ridiculous deal (like,,uhh yeah, I'm not going to take $40 for a $250 gauge!). Gauges a one-time purchase if you buy quality and to me that's the only way to go. Especially if you're making any tuning or other decisions based off the date they provide!

Most definately AEM if you dislike the metric readout and want imperial readout (which I prefer like most americans, lol). And the digital readout is nice. Serial style if you have AEM EMS and don't use your outport for other uses. The new Defi system is still nice but it isn't geared towards USA market that's for sure. Autometer has the most choices of anyone, no doubts there, but they look a little odd in imports IMO and especially not a good choice if it's the bottom-priced models.


Nothing is perfect, even the AEM guages should be checked every now and then. We had a customer with a DSM running AEM EMS and AEM boost guage with a sepreate MAP sensor for each. Something seemed off with the boost readins between the dyno, the AEM, and the guage, so after looking into it the sensors were mounted very loosley and were just banging around on the transmission and IC piping and were both bad and both reading completely different.

Can't blame the gauges or mfg'r for crappy or amateur install.

[DocWalt]

Good info in this thread! I recently got in an argument with some idiot that claimed Prosports were built in the same factory as Defis, so they must be as good. lulz.

[cjbyron]

Good info in this thread! I recently got in an argument with some idiot that claimed Prosports were built in the same factory as Defis, so they must be as good. lulz.

LOL, had heard that too. Part of their marketing ploy no doubt. Put the guarantee on the box Ted! LOL.
I think the word is totally out now that prosports are a lower-end gauge and have accuracy and failure issues. Too many people reporting problems for it to be anything other than quality as spec'd and built.

And even if it was true about the factory, so what. That doesn't make them equal to the specs or quality. "Factories" build to all differing specs and acceptable deviation or quality standards. I'm sure autometer can also use same factory for their $15 gauge as their $200 one. Just a lame way to mincing words to make them appear to be something they are not. Because of that style of marketing alone I'd not buy their stuff.

[DocWalt]

It wasn't their marketing, he was just a misinformed tool. I don't pay Prosport any attention, so I'd have to do research to see if they ever did claim that they were made in the same factory.

[i3igpete]

I do distinctly recall michael b reading a magazine article that did a steady-state test and saying "THEY ARE AS GOOD AS, IF NOT BETTER THAN, DEFI GAUGES" (CAPS emphasis my own, he may have used bold or a large font).

[TonyM]

I have seen rings blown on my friends car from his bad mechanical boost gauge. It was an autometer mechanical and he had no reason to assume it didnt read right. It looked like it worked fine but didnt read right. He was set at 17psi, with all proper fuel mods, according to his gauge. but after a couple passes at the track his rings were gone. When he got rings fixed, I let him try my boost gauge (another autometer pro comp I used for years) and we compared the two gauges.

His autometer read 8 psi, mine read 17psi. Then his read 16psi when mine read 25psi. SO long story short is make sure your gauge is in working order. DOuble check it with another or a source that you know how much is being applied before going all out. And if something feels wrong make sure boost is right.

A crappy gauge cost a whole engine rebuild in only a couple passes. And it was weird because he turned it up little by little but it still kept reading low so he thought it was okay. It barely went up and was still in pump gas territory. But it just went up alot slower than what was correct. He was running 17 psi on pump in his dsm on the bad gauge which was prolly over 26psi in real life.

BTW it was a newer gauge so don't assume just that its a new mechanical gauge that it is 100% accurate. Bad stuff does still get pass quality control.

Remember too that mechanical gauges are dependant on a quality mechanical link with the car. Not saying they can't be inaccurate, but I've seen many times those nylon lines get kinked and bent. Electronic gauges have the benefit of only needing to run a wire to the gauge while the sender can sit right on the manifold, etc. Much less involved.

For the record, my Autometer Pro-Comp is within 1 psi from where my MAP sensor reads on my datalogger.

[i3igpete]

even more shitty boost gauges


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA7gezz_fjg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAix5Mpk-mo

[i3igpete]

really interesting comparison. even though the blitz steppers are super fast, the control unit looks like it has some sort of delay or smoothing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oigHL1L_w&feature=related

[AdamVR4]

Ever seen a comparison with greddy gauges? Does defi put them to shame like they did that blitz gauge?

[DocWalt]

Cool comparos. Anyone with a STACK Guage wanna do a comparo? Found a nice video of one, but without a comparison it's useless besides seeing that the sweep is quick. THe blitz has a quick sweep too, but clearly a delay somewhere.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWiK4jYT7gA

[i3igpete]

Cool comparos. Anyone with a STACK Guage wanna do a comparo?

Yeah I think the best way you can tell is just by listening to someone play with the throttle in neutral. Stack makes the best tachs and digital dashes, though, so I'm guessing their other gauges are just as good.

[J. Fast]

I wired in an ADI Map60. It's an aircraft gauge with an overboost alarm. $200 for everything and it matches the stock interior lights perfect + it's dead accurate!

[MADMarc]

Damn. I've never wanted Defi gauges so bad...lol

[Boomer3000]

So... Defi or AEM... All others..... FAIL

[J. Fast]

I've never ran either of those on my car. I can say my Greddy is off by 2.5 psi. Looks cool, but it's not very accurate either. Just my .02.

[IPD]

if response speed is important...go 100% digital readout. if you're looking for cheap & reliable...go with autometer manual boost gauges.

nothing is perfect; but for being ~ the same price, autometer > prosport by a country mile.

[i3igpete]

if response speed is important...go 100% digital readout.

Even then, not all digital gauges are made the same. Some digital gauges have very slow refresh rates. My SPA digital gauges have a refresh rate of ~2Hz, which is fine for temperature and oil pressure readings (it's hard to read numbers that "twitch"). But that isn't OK for boost and RPM.

for example, this digital tach is AWFUL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFyuWqNMzdE

[Ninja Performance]

wholly hell...that tach is slow as piss.

-Chris

[Toni]

Even then, not all digital gauges are made the same. Some digital gauges have very slow refresh rates. My SPA digital gauges have a refresh rate of ~2Hz, which is fine for temperature and oil pressure readings (it's hard to read numbers that "twitch"). But that isn't OK for boost and RPM.

for example, this digital tach is AWFUL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFyuWqNMzdE


wholly hell...that tach is slow as piss.

-Chris

Wow yea that is stupid slow! It can certain go faster and still be able to read. When I was working on my dual afr gauge I tried to make it as fast as I could while still being able to discern the actual number. This is what I came up with. I don't know the exact Hz off the top of my head. Might be helpful for those that haven't seen any other digitals.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ODKGwJDzYU

[i3igpete]

Wow yea that is stupid slow! It can certain go faster and still be able to read. When I was working on my dual afr gauge I tried to make it as fast as I could while still being able to discern the actual number. This is what I came up with. I don't know the exact Hz off the top of my head. Might be helpful for those that haven't seen any other digitals.

Yeah that seems like a pretty good pace. I think any more would be hard to read.

[Toni]

So I assume all the gauges we are going to get are "gauge pressure sensors." That being, they measure pressure in reference to something (car being off). I wonder if this is something that they calibrate at the factory or if the calibration is done at every start up?

I know the innovate LMA-3 uses a map sensor however it can be configured to be a gauge pressure sensor. It needs to be powered on for a fraction of a section before starting to calibrate to the car being off. This should give you the most accurate boost if your goal is to figure out how much you can compress the current atmosphere. I would assume this is not ideal for speed density configurations which is why they typically use a real map sensor.