2012 3S NG autocross class matrix.

[Alan92RTTT]

For 2012 Levi and Chris have come up with a new classing system that should be much better than the one we have been using.

Here is a image to show what the classes will be based on.

[2fnloud]

I am going to guess that 13G's are "aftermarket" turbo's?

[Nationalmilkman]

^^^ Not in Europe!

[Alan92RTTT]

I am going to guess that 13G's are "aftermarket" turbo's?


^^^ Not in Europe!
But we're not in Europe so....

[2fnloud]

I wasn't even going to go there Alan. What makes a tire a "race tire"? if it has a DOT rating is it a street tire?

[Alan92RTTT]

I'm not 100% sure. I will get clarification on that.

[R/T93]

I wasn't even going to go there Alan. What makes a tire a "race tire"? if it has a DOT rating is it a street tire?

Race tires are generally 60 treadwear or less

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

[anyonebutme]

We follow SCCA rules. Lower than 140 treadwear rating = race tire. If not DOT, automatically race tire.

[Alan92RTTT]

Thanks Chris. I'll add that to the registration page.

[B-Man]

What's considered gutted interior? I was planning on taking out the passenger seat but keeping the rear, dash and console pieces.

[anyonebutme]

There's a specific set of components we will look for that will determine a "gutted" interior, but having light seats and everything removed behind the rear seats is basically fine. The entire gutted thing was to separate true street cars from the race cars (that may occasionally see the street) like mine. I'm sure nobody here will classify a single seater a "street car" no matter if a racing passenger seat only weighs about 20 lbs and if everything else is in place. Again this is pretty much the rules in place for SCCA autoX. If you don't have 2 seats, you're classed in XP or some similar class.

Anyways, without actually looking up my emails and the "rulesheet" we made up and sent to Lori, "street car" is defined as having 2 seats, carpet, headliner, BOTH upper and lower dash components, center console, HVAC modules (the heater core, blower, ect), and both door cards. We'll let deleted rear seats slide, and 2 seat conversions of course are fine.

[Alan92RTTT]

A gutted interior is any interior missing a substantial amount of the basic interior components like front seats, full dash, door panels, carpet, headliner, audio system, etc. Cars with custom audio installs that take the place of normal interior components or a car with one or two basic interior components missing are still considered full interior cars. The basic rule of thumb is that if you look into the car and see more metal than interior panels, carpet, and plastic then your car has a gutted interior.
Race Tires are defined as tires with a treadwear rating lower than 140
The classification questions will determine a car's class
All criteria will have to be reviewed on site via tech inspection
If a car is found to be incorrectly classified during tech inspection its class will be adjusted to the correct class or it will incur a deemed deserving time penalty on all runs

[2fnloud]

So there is no more AWD / FWD separation as well?

[anyonebutme]

So there is no more AWD / FWD separation as well?

Nope, that is all gone. That classing stratagy caused all sorts of mismatches and issues with classes with only 1 or 2 cars in them, while everyone else was grouped together in 1 lump.

[95gto]

Alan - Awesome job on the coding!

With regard to your tires, all tires have the treadwear rating printed on the sidewall in the same area as your traction and temperature rating. This is normally some of the smaller print on the tire so you may have to look closely to find it. Here is a sample of what it should look like:

http://www.pirelli.com/mediaObject/pirellityre/ww/en/extra-catalogue/car/all_about_tyres/07_UTQG/original/07_UTQG.png

You will have to be running very good tires to fall into the race tire category.

With regard to drivetrain specific separation, past NG times have shown that it is not completely necessary on modded cars. We still have a class that only has FWD cars in it, but once the FWD cars start reaching higher levels of mods they will be pitted against AWD cars.

I can assure you that Chris and I spent a lot of time looking at this system and developing the most all encompassing system that is still as simple as possible. We started out very broad and slowly narrowed the scope to mods that made the largest impact to run times. Then after assigning point values to all of the mods we developed the groupings as they are today. Then Alan took over and coded the question boxes to automatically sort the cars for us.

This system should keep the classes very competitive as well as more equally distributed with total competitors as compared to what we have seen in years past. The intent is to give everyone a shot at placing in their category by minimizing the class separations.

If you do have more questions related to class groupings please let us know.

[B-Man]

Race tires <= 140 or <140?

[Alan92RTTT]

"lower than" = "less than" = "<"

"less than or equal to" = "<="

[B-Man]

Just want to be clear. :p

[Rakuny]

oh good, so hankook RS3's won't bump me correct? tread wear rating is 140 exactly. Also sounds like I will be ok gutting the center console, behind the rear seats in the hatch area and some pieces of the dash?

Edit: If I have stock evo shocks/springs does that count for stock springs or would that put me in the lowering spring category?

[95gto]

It would depend upon what dash components you are missing along with the other stuff. The key statement in the classification is "The basic rule of thumb is that if you look into the car and see more metal than interior panels, carpet, and plastic then your car has a gutted interior." If this statement is true about your car then you can bank on it getting dubbed as a "gutted" car.

A treadwear rating of 140 or higher makes the tire a "street" tire. So if the Hankooks have a rating of 140 they are still a street tire. If the treadwear rating was 139.9999 it would be a race tire. This is the break point that the SCCA uses so we thought it would work for us as well.

Do the evo shocks and springs provide a lower stance than the stock suspension? If so your car would be classified as having lowering springs. If these shocks have adjustable spring perches that allow you to dial in ride height and/or spring pre-load you will be classified as having coilovers.

[anyonebutme]

Just registered.....

:suspect:

[R/T93]

Class 3 goin down!

[95gto]

Just saw this on the registration page..........Alan is competing this year!!


And do we know why we have class numbers all the way up to 7?

[anyonebutme]

Just saw this on the registration page..........Alan is competing this year!!


And do we know why we have class numbers all the way up to 7?

I know that "class 1" on registration is for "other" class.....I was thinking maybe Alan was having fun and put me in my own class because I can't imagine what the other missing class is.

[Alan92RTTT]

Class 7 = a bug.

Technically I'm not allowed to run as I am the person managing the event. BUt I hope to get at least a timed pass in.

It should be class 1-5 for 3S and other.

I'll take a look later.

[95gto]

Class 7 = a bug.

Technically I'm not allowed to run as I am the person managing the event. BUt I hope to get at least a timed pass in.

It should be class 1-5 for 3S and other.

I'll take a look later.

I'm not always the sharpest crayon in the box but I'm sure you could show me how to man the computer so you can get some runs in.

[terrets]

Class 7 = a bug.

Technically I'm not allowed to run as I am the person managing the event. BUt I hope to get at least a timed pass in.

It should be class 1-5 for 3S and other.

I'll take a look later.

Ya you definitely should run a few times.

[TooFast4Radar]

For 2012 Levi and Chris have come up with a new classing system that should be much better than the one we have been using.

Here is a image to show what the classes will be based on.
So I'm in Class 1 since I'm NA with stock suspension, tires, and full interior - right? :)

[terrets]

So I'm in Class 1 since I'm NA with stock suspension, tires, and full interior - right? :)

Now they will just have to make a non-3s class :p

[Alan92RTTT]

So I'm in Class 1 since I'm NA with stock suspension, tires, and full interior - right? :)
That is the 3S matrix, Other is still Other :p

[TooFast4Radar]

That is the 3S matrix, Other is still Other :p

It doesn't say anything about being 3/S only. Maybe I should put a pair of 9B's on my car and get into Class 2! What say you Alan? ;)

[Alan92RTTT]

Actually on the event page it does specify that these are the 3S classes :p

[95gto]

So what is that now Alan - 2 and Paul - 0?

[Alan92RTTT]

Technically 3 - 0 Paul just does not know it yet.

Others don't get the questions. Its hardcoded to "other" for their autocross class ;)

[95gto]

One more and you should change is registration name to "doing it wrong"

[TooFast4Radar]

One more and you should change is registration name to "doing it wrong"

Enough of that Levi, mid engine = Doing it Right!!!! I need to put a 3/S body kit on my car so I can run in Class 1 and fool Alan.

...or better yet I'll just say that I put a Cayman body kit on my red Stealth! There's nothing that says you can't do a Cayman conversion to your 3/S...

[anyonebutme]

Enough of that Levi, mid engine = Doing it Right!!!! I need to put a 3/S body kit on my car so I can run in Class 1 and fool Alan.

...or better yet I'll just say that I put a Cayman body kit on my red Stealth! There's nothing that says you can't do a Cayman conversion to your 3/S...

Whatever, how about this: Pick a class, I'll borrow someone's car for that class. If I beat you, you fail and go back to "lame class". If you beat me, you can place in whatever class you're in.

[95gto]

trying to cheat/exploit the system = Doing It Wrong

failing at trying to cheat/exploit the system = Really Doing It Wrong

I will give you that mid-rear does = Doing it right

And don't forget that whatever class you get entered into upon registration still has to be confirmed with the tech inspection for you to run in that class.

[tabasco122]

Don't worry Paul, if I can still go to ng, you can beat my ass in other...

[DocWalt]

:bump:

[Alan92RTTT]

why bump a sticky?

[95gto]

why bump a sticky?

We should probably take this opportunity to update the Tire requirements. The break point on tread wear rating was meant to track with SCCA requirements which have changed quite a bit in the last three years.

The UTQG requirement has since been increased from 140 to a current level of 200