Maybe I'm focusing on the wrong platform

[n2nsanity]

I picked up an 01 passat last year for super cheap. It's the 1.8t auto, but this thing had some balls and quite the sleeper. Anyway it had some electrical issues and I had to park it and haven't had the time to do much with it. I did already buy the k04-15 which is supposed to be good for an extra 30hp and work perfectly on the stock ecu. Still haven't got around to messing with it because I know so little about the platform and it's a little intimidating. If you've ever tried working on a german car, you should be able to relate.

But anyway, the other day I was trying to price some parts to try to get this thing back on the road and stumbled across this.
APR VW Passat 1.8T - APR ECU Upgrade (http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_passat18t.html)
50hp for $400??? That's insane! If the numbers aren't fudged at least...
With this ECU upgrade, the k04 and an FMIC, I'd increase hp by 50% for less than $1k.
I know this is just theoretical, but can you imagine adding 150hp from bolt-ons and for less than $1k on the 3/s platform?

I wish we had more options like this.

[anyonebutme]

Not even going to mention that power/$ ratio with HD diesels here.

[donniekak]

I've got a 3s in my driveway close to 150hp over stock, i probably only have about $1,200 total in it. And i mean total, car included. 13g's at 18psi, 450's and a meth kit. I traded parts until i had a whole car. But, nothing beats dsm's for power per dollar. I had about 5-6k into my dsm and could pull 600cc sportbikes.

[bluzvr4]

im at 1700 in my dsm and its set up to run low 12's

[nodoze]

im at 1700 in my dsm and its set up to run low 12's
:Sobbing: im at alot more than that and will only run like 2-3 second faster

[bluzvr4]

only 9's or 10's... it takes quite a bit more to get into 10's and be reliable in the dsm world

[nodoze]

yea im literally sitting at 10x what u have into yours . . . .

[bluzvr4]

is it a dsm or vr4? 1g or 2g

[donniekak]

You can get into the 10's for under 5k. Auto car, cams, e85, and a good bolt on turbo, as well as typical boltons. Everybody and their brother is eeking into the 10's now with an auto transmission.

[vroom4]

A 1.8t automatic doesnt have balls. I dont know what the hell you were on when you decided that. I just sold a 1.8t a4 auto and that thing could barely get out of its own way.

[n2nsanity]

was saying it surprised the shit out of me because it was much quicker than expected and it was only a stock 1.8t auto
it was supposed to be an affordable reliable family car ($2500), but didn't turn out to be reliable, so i ended up buying a new lancer es.

then the other day i stumbled across a bunch of relatively cheap upgrades with significant gains

not saying its faster than a vr4 or even close to it, but it was much faster than i expected
i wanted to get rid of it, but now i'm debating keeping it and throwing another $800 at it to see what this baby can do

[donniekak]

A 1.8t automatic doesnt have balls. I dont know what the hell you were on when you decided that. I just sold a 1.8t a4 auto and that thing could barely get out of its own way.
If you were talking to me, i was referring to a dsm. A 2.0 liter stock engine, stock trans car, that many have put into the 10's. If an auto trans is making a car slow, it's just a slow car. Go to your local drag strip, and see how many sub 10 second cars are running a manual.

[BigTyla]

If you were talking to me, i was referring to a dsm. A 2.0 liter stock engine, stock trans car, that many have put into the 10's. If an auto trans is making a car slow, it's just a slow car. Go to your local drag strip, and see how many sub 10 second cars are running a manual.

Don't even try explaining it to the 3S crew. Didn't you know all auto trans cars are slow? :p

As for the OP, yes, you will often get that thought in your head when you start researching other platforms. It took me selling my 3S a few years ago to realize just how limited this platform is.

[n2nsanity]

Don't get me wrong, the 3/s's will always be my first love and I'll always have at least 1. But it's discouraging that it costs so much to get decent results.
And I know you can often stretch your money really far by finding great deals, buying and selling, and doing your own work. I've done plenty of that myself.
But I'm still amazed at what kind of performance gains I can supposedly get on my vw for a few hundred $ and buying new bolt-on parts.
I just can't get over the idea of an extra 50hp and 100tq for $400 :)

[donniekak]

Don't get me wrong, the 3/s's will always be my first love and I'll always have at least 1. But it's discouraging that it costs so much to get decent results.
And I know you can often stretch your money really far by finding great deals, buying and selling, and doing your own work. I've done plenty of that myself.
But I'm still amazed at what kind of performance gains I can supposedly get on my vw for a few hundred $ and buying new bolt-on parts.
I just can't get over the idea of an extra 50hp and 100tq for $400 :)
You know a $20 mbc will provide similar gains. I've been through this with the local euro guys.

[BigTyla]

Don't forget that this is also an older platform. The platforms you're referring to can get extra HP from a simple tune just like the 3Ss can, but the reason their methods are so cheap is because their ECUs are flashable. Pre-98 3Ss simply don't have the necessary hardware for a flash.

Also, I would contend that there is a misconception that the 3S platform is so expensive to get big results from because so many people are doing it wrong.

[UTRacerX9]

I just can't get over the idea of an extra 50hp and 100tq for $400 :)

Most modern turbocharged cars have a ton of untapped power from the otherwise stock turbo and fuel system. Case in point, the 996 Turbo can go from 415 horsepower to just under 500 with just an ECU tune. A Mercedes S65 can go from 605 hp and 738lb-ft of torque to almost 700 hp and over 800ft-lbs on just a tune.

Granted, those tuning programs for those cars are more expensive, in this case about $1k to $2k, but you get the point. Our cars weren't that far off though. The "free boost mod" was good for 20 hp, and upping the boost pressure with an MBC can give another 30 or so beyond that with no other upgrades needed.

[R/T93]

If our cars came with 15gs and 550s you could get 500hp with a downpipe, MBC, and fuel pump

It doesn't so we have to spend 4 grand to get there.

[donniekak]

Also, I would contend that there is a misconception that the 3S platform is so expensive to get big results from because so many people are doing it wrong.
Right on. People forget that matt monet got into the 11's on stock injectors, and stm ran 10's on 9b's.

[Rakuny]

If our cars came with 15gs and 550s you could get 500hp with a downpipe, MBC, and fuel pump

It doesn't so we have to spend 4 grand to get there.

THIS.
imo, this is a big reason that supra's get the attention they do, BPU gets you a lot further..

[DK77]

Yeah... the other jap 90s cars were more bpu mod friendly, while the 3s was set up to have a good balance of all the parts at the stock power level with nothing too overbuilt. It also would have been way more expensive with 15Gs and 550s from the factory.

[R/T93]

Rly? like 50 dollars more expensive?

Buying 15g's and 550's right now is a lot different than mitsu designing and manufacturing them for the car in 1989

[DK77]

Well the fact that none of the Japanese cars were supposed to make more than 276 bhp was the reason why Mitsu made the 3S with that much HP... They wanted to make the car as cheaply as they could and still have all the tech in there. You have to realize that back then the car was not cheap and any "extra" capability it was designed to have over stock would hurt the bottom line since it would raise cost and price and in turn decrease total sales. What Mitsu did put in the 3S is very balanced for the amount of power they were allowed to make. If they would have spent an extra $1000 on each car to put in 15Gs, 550cc injectors, and bigger fuel pump, you multiply that times the 26000+ TT models produced... and you have to invest an extra $26 million with virtually no return because the car can't make any more power from the factory than it did with 9Bs and 360cc injectors.

[Jimvr4]

A 1.8t automatic doesnt have balls. I dont know what the hell you were on when you decided that. I just sold a 1.8t a4 auto and that thing could barely get out of its own way.

My son has an A4 1.8t manual and I can confirm there are no balls in stock form. That 50 hp gain is a Stage I upgrade which is boost level only. They have a Stage III upgrade with upgraded turbo and supporting mods for like $4500 that gets it to 280 bhp. That's alot of cost for the extra 80 hp though.

[n2nsanity]

I'm not sure what is and isn't stock on mine but everything looks stock to me, unless it was already chipped. It may not be ballsy to everyone, but was much quicker than I expected from a little 1.8.

I don't know how much it actually costs to do any real major upgrades. I just stumbled across this and was looking at their dyno chart and wondering if it could be true.
50hp and 100tq from nothing but an ecu flash is impressive to me if not to anyone else. Especially for only $400 or $500.


My son has an A4 1.8t manual and I can confirm there are no balls in stock form. That 50 hp gain is a Stage I upgrade which is boost level only. They have a Stage III upgrade with upgraded turbo and supporting mods for like $4500 that gets it to 280 bhp. That's alot of cost for the extra 80 hp though.