No spark on 3 & 6

[DarK_sTyLe]

Like the title says car is not getting spark on 3 & 6 i thought it was the ptu but didnt solve the problem HELP!!

[DarK_sTyLe]

Ecu has been rebuilt my last guess is the ignition coil

[RealMcCoy]

What year car?

[DarK_sTyLe]

Stealth ES 91

[RealMcCoy]

OK, that eliminates out of phase CMP/CKP sensors.... You can check for a coil problem by simply swapping coils and seeing if the problem follows the coil. You should also closely check the connectors at the PTU and the coils. I've seen the pins get pulled out of the connectors, and not make a connection, even while appearing to be connected externally.

[DarK_sTyLe]

Ok thankz ill check the pins tomorrow right now its really cold outside

[arm0red1]

Ooooor check the cas. Had the exact same problem after and autox, bought a new coil no luck, did some digging to discover if the crank angle sensor is off in the timing that you will see this oddball issue, sure enough, pulled the timing covers off and I was off a tooth. For whatever reason, the ecu won't fire the coil at all if the crank angle sensor doesn't properly overlap the cam angle sensor

[RealMcCoy]

Ooooor check the cas. Had the exact same problem after and autox, bought a new coil no luck, did some digging to discover if the crank angle sensor is off in the timing that you will see this oddball issue, sure enough, pulled the timing covers off and I was off a tooth. For whatever reason, the ecu won't fire the coil at all if the crank angle sensor doesn't properly overlap the cam angle sensor


What year car?


Stealth ES 91


OK, that eliminates out of phase CMP/CKP sensors.....

91-92 cars don't have separate sensors...

[Turbo Beast]

Coil!

[DarK_sTyLe]

i have checked the pins and harness and they all look good.... ill change the coil tomorrow

[DarK_sTyLe]

Bad news changed the PTU AND IGNITION COILS and still no spark on 3 & 6 could it be tje ECU

[Jimvr4]

Yes it can. The ECU should provide a low voltage signal to control the power transistor (PTU).

[DarK_sTyLe]

Yes it can. The ECU should provide a low voltage signal to control the power transistor (PTU).

Do you know about the IC105 chip that controls that coil? How can i repair it?

[Jimvr4]

DIY is probably not a great idea

[Emilie@GZP]

check the ECU

[DarK_sTyLe]

check the ECU
i opened my ecu it look good not leak capacitors or anything but this is so weird because am 100% sure its the ecu sometime tomorrow i will replace it with a friends ecu and see what happens

[DarK_sTyLe]

also is it possible that my car is burning them or something.... how can i test that?? because the first ecu the car had stopped working, the thing with that one was that it was no spark at all coils after that i bought one on ebay and it was fine until now everything works except for that coil 3&6 hope this helps

[arm0red1]

ill say it once more just to toss it out there, have you checked your timing? just do it, it takes the removal of a wheel and the covers, and a breaker bar.....could save you a few hundred in parts.

[RealMcCoy]

ill say it once more just to toss it out there, have you checked your timing? just do it, it takes the removal of a wheel and the covers, and a breaker bar.....could save you a few hundred in parts.

I thought we covered that.... Please explain your logic as to how cam timing could possibly have any effect on a 91-92 car...?

[DarK_sTyLe]

ill say it once more just to toss it out there, have you checked your timing? just do it, it takes the removal of a wheel and the covers, and a breaker bar.....could save you a few hundred in parts.
my car does not have the sensors and i am 100% sure my timing its correct because before i replaced my ecu i did the timing belt and the cam gaskets but ill check the timing tomorrow

[arm0red1]

CRANK! I WAS FOCUSING ON THE CRANK SENSOR!!!!!! - I apologize for getting back late and realized my previous post sounded like/ implied what your thinking- not what I meant. On my 97 it reacts with the overlap of the cams to cause the specific misfire, but seeing as yours is older, perhaps it doesn't need the cam signal to trip the ecu for the same symptoms as the ECU wouldn't be referencing a signal for the cams to trigger the coils to fire- just the crank.

\I've searched quite a bit when I hit this EXACT issue after an autoX run with my car last summer, towed it back home and thought i bend a valve. but after being able to crank it over ok with no tick, and still having compression on the cylinders , I looked online and ppl said in other threads for ppl with the same mishap the usual "check the ptu" "check the ECU" "check the coil" "check the injectors" "check the injector harness for a short" ect ect

I replaced the coil with a new one, (100 bucks on cherry hill at the time) still the missfire, pulled my ECU, board was good, caps werent leaking, PTU was fine, harness was fine, injectors were good.......so i went back to the drawing board and found a thread with someone suggesting the crank sensor/trigger plating behind the sprocket and sure enough it skipped one tooth off after the autoX. I got a new belt, new tensioner/pullies, retimed it, and its been happy ever since. In the end I wasted 100 bucks on a coil I didnt even need (old one checks out fine)

If it was the ECU, you would be having addtional erratic issues outside of a missfire, (such as all the coils simueltaneously not firing as mentioned earlier) if ECU caps leak, its *usually* a slow deterioration in operating capabilites or goofy things like lights turning on/off, or not working, roaming idle, climate control kicking on out of no where, not an overnight missfire unless your board just fried out of no where....which would then suggest theres a short elsewhere. Go ahead and check the ECU, but I personally don't think its likely, but then again, thats just me and what I've personally witnessed, and this is the interwebz afterall.

I'm not saying its the end all solution, but it doesnt hurt to check it, Mine was only 1 tooth off to make it sound like a tractor and about as fast as a riding lawnmower...

[RealMcCoy]

You are correct that your 97 will drop coils if the cam timing is off... There is a very good reason for that. It has separate crankshaft and camshaft position sensors that must be in proper phase for the ECU to make sense of the signals.

A 91-92 car has a Crank Angle Sensor on the back of the rear intake cam. It makes both signals, and will always be in phase regardless of cam timing. Hense the very first question I asked was what year his car is, and when answered, discounted the possibility...

It is very possible and not uncommon for a driver to fail in an ECU... The only symptom will be the loss of the driven component. It could be an injector, a leg of the PTU, a soleniod, or IAC...

[DarK_sTyLe]

thankzzz guys i sent my ecu for a rebuilt yesterday its gonna take about a week when it gets here ill post if it worked

[DarK_sTyLe]

not good guys i just replace my ECU and it worked for a while for about 10 minutes then i get the CEL again SO I WENT AND CHECKED FOR SPARK AND THERE WAS 0 SPARK after that my RPMs jump and i get spark on 3 & 6 but not as good as the other coils.. other coils spark is hotter than 3&6 AM LOST HERE I DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO CHECK

[DarK_sTyLe]

Help please

[Emilie@GZP]

You may have a short somewhere causing your ecu's to blow. Stop swapping in ecu's until you figure out where your short is.

[DarK_sTyLe]

You may have a short somewhere causing your ecu's to blow. Stop swapping in ecu's until you figure out where your short is.
yeah i was thinking the samething.... the thing is how can i look for it? sh***t so i just blew my new ecu cause i only used it for about 10 minutes then i put back the old one. i saw a post a the other site that talked about a black w/white stripe wire and blue w/yellow wire the end it up at the passenger side corner behind the battery in a blue connector that can sometimes go to ground and do a short causing the 3 & 6 to cut

[DarK_sTyLe]

does anyone know about this or where else can i look for a short?

[mb3000]

IIRC the FSM has a procedure for testing.

[Emilie@GZP]

you have any hacked wiring in your car? radio install? aftermarket alarm? Start with those areas, look for a grounded out radio wire, broken wires, etc, and go from there.

[DarK_sTyLe]

you have any hacked wiring in your car? radio install? aftermarket alarm? Start with those areas, look for a grounded out radio wire, broken wires, etc, and go from there.
actually i do i already checked my stereo the ground that i used for the stereo is to it to a piece of metal,,, the rest of the cables look good... i have a aftermarket alarm thats what am going to check right now

[DarK_sTyLe]

IIRC the FSM has a procedure for testing.
??? explain IIRC and FSM

[R/T93]

??? explain IIRC and FSM

If I recall correctly.
Factory Service Manual.

The 3/S world is worse than the US Navy as far as acronyms are concerned

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

[BaadVR4]

US Navy has no acronyms. Unless you count "S.W.A.G.". At least not in the 21 1/2 years I served. But then, that was before written language, so maybe things have changed since we quit using sails as the primary means of propulsion.

[DarK_sTyLe]

my car is burning my ecus

[DarK_sTyLe]

i already check every possible cable from inside the car and all looked good

[RealMcCoy]

Get acquainted with the wire diagram, and check the resistance on all the outputs. Then check those circuits for continuity to ground as well ... While it is seldom done, and often gotten away with, it's a procedure that should always be done before installing a controller.

You need to check the IAC, the injectors,and all the solenoids, (basically any power driven device controlled by the ECU.) It may sound daunting, but it's actually quite easy, and can all be done from the ECU connector.

FSM =Factory Service Manual, IIRC= If I Remember Correctly

[dsmnoob91]

I just skipped to the last page did nt read any of the others so I'm sorry if someone already said this bit ignition Module will cause no spark on two cylinders if it goes bad

[DarK_sTyLe]

Get acquainted with the wire diagram, and check the resistance on all the outputs. Then check those circuits for continuity to ground as well ... While it is seldom done, and often gotten away with, it's a procedure that should always be done before installing a controller.

You need to check the IAC, the injectors,and all the solenoids, (basically any power driven device controlled by the ECU.) It may sound daunting, but it's actually quite easy, and can all be done from the ECU connector.

FSM =Factory Service Manual, IIRC= If I Remember Correctly
i have checked the ecu following this sheets and all is good
am stuck i dont know what else to do
http://stealth316.com/images/ecu_91-93_1.gif
http://stealth316.com/images/ecu_91-93_2.gif
http://stealth316.com/images/ecu_91-93_3.gif
http://stealth316.com/images/ecu_91-93_4.gif
http://stealth316.com/images/ecu_91-93_5.gif

[Emilie@GZP]

Pictures aren't working??....

[DarK_sTyLe]

Pictures aren't working??....
i got the sheets from jeff website DOHC Non-turbo and Turbo: 1991 to 1993 ecu terminals
click here (http://www.stealth316.com/2-ecu-terminals.htm)

[DarK_sTyLe]

Pictures aren't working??....
you cant see the pics if youre using internet explorer use chrome to see them or go to the link on top

[DarK_sTyLe]

can the CAS cut spark on 3 & 6?

[RealMcCoy]

Possible I suppose, but highly unlikely.... It's an optical sensor, so you want to make sure there's no oil contamination inside, or anything that could interfere with the optics.

You can test it with a volt meter or low current(LED) test lamp. The CAS makes one revolution every 720 deg of crank rotation(two turns). In that period, the cam signal will go low 4 times, the crank signal will go low 6 times.

[DarK_sTyLe]

UPDATE: ok changed ecu again worked 5 minutes or so then no spark on 3 & 6 and no fuel injection on injector 3 & 6... am getting 12v-14v on brown w/ red stripe(power transistor unit C) (signal from ecu to C Coil 3&6) when car on

[RealMcCoy]

UPDATE: ok changed ecu again worked 5 minutes or so then no spark on 3 & 6 and no fuel injection on injector 3 & 6... am getting 12v-14v on brown w/ red stripe(power transistor unit C) (signal from ecu to C Coil 3&6) when car on

Then it's shorted to power somewhere... That circuit should have 5 volts on it. I'm surprised the ECU drivers lasted 5 minutes....

[DarK_sTyLe]

Then it's shorted to power somewhere... That circuit should have 5 volts on it. I'm surprised the ECU drivers lasted 5 minutes....

thats not possible i reroute the brown w/red stripe coming from the ECU with another one still the same...

UPDATE: i check the engine speed detection harness(blue) for a short to ground and it was fine,,, tested the coils and all worked,, tested the PTU all good,,

i was thinking that one of my injectors(3/6) is damaged and its doing a short

[RealMcCoy]

thats not possible i reroute the brown w/red stripe coming from the ECU with another one still the same...


Of course it's possible... Unless you're sitting in a vortex bordering an alternate universe, that 12 volts is coming from somewhere... Start unplugging stuff until it goes away to get you on the track to finding it.

[DarK_sTyLe]

Of course it's possible... Unless you're sitting in a vortex bordering an alternate universe, that 12 volts is coming from somewhere... Start unplugging stuff until it goes away to get you on the track to finding it.

ok i will
if nothing happens
then is the ECU i already order a new ECU from autozone its going to get here the 28th

[mb3000]

ok i will
if nothing happens
then is the ECU i already order a new ECU from autozone its going to get here the 28th

Autozone? How much did you pay for it, if you don't mind me asking.

[DarK_sTyLe]

Autozone? How much did you pay for it, if you don't mind me asking.

280 dollars

[mb3000]

Hopefully you got a good refurb'd unit.

[DarK_sTyLe]

ok guys it was the ecu after 3 used and 2 rebuilt ecus the one from autozone worked thankzzz guys for helping