Getting my transmission attached to the engine

[Danube_3KGT]

Okay, if you use the chat you'll know my situation a little. I have an automatic trans I recently pulled off my engine and now its time to put it back on. However I am having problems getting the trans all the way on. I got the torque convertor all the way in and made sure the trans is in neutral but can't get the torque convertor to spin all the way around. When I unbolt the trans from the engine I can use a torque wrench to turn the crank pulley all I want, but when I bolt the trans to the engine even loosely the crank pulley will turn almost all the way around (enough to get 3 of the 4 torque convertor/flex plate bolts in) but "hangs up" before I can get to the 4th spot. As I said, the trans is in neutral and it does spin before I start bolting these up. I just don't want to put to much pressure on the torque wrench because im afraid of jumping time again or bending valves. if it helps I heard a "PING" sound when turning the crank pulley today. Any help is appreciated because I need to get this lady back on the road.

[green-lantern]

I know you have to line up more than one thing to get it all the way in. I’d say the TC isn’t all the way on. My friend had this issue and almost damaged it trying to force it on. IIRC there is splines and sort of a D shaped part that needs to be aligned to get it on all the way.

[nodoze]

second the converter not being splined it will spline three times going into it make sure you get all three in

[green-lantern]

second the converter not being splined it will spline three times going into it make sure you get all three in

I knew it was at least two. It was my only 3s auto experience.

[stealthee]

Yeah, it takes a good bit of wiggling to get the converter all the way seated. I did one by balancing the trans on its case. I squatted down straddling the bellhousing with my knees to help the balance, and grabbed ahold of the covnerter and wiggled and pushed vigorously. You will absolutely know when its properly seated.

BTW the trans does not have to be in nuetral to get the converter to spin. Think about it. If you jack a FWD car up with both front wheels off the ground, the tires spin with little effort.

[Danube_3KGT]

I'll take the trans off again and check the tq again but im almost positive its on there it sits like 1 inch deep and pretty much clicks into place, once it clicks in I can barely turn it by hand also

[Danube_3KGT]

A video, yes its me, yes im weezin, its freezin in my garage..

http://youtu.be/Q-uDJjP-n3w

any help would be great guys, im really stumped at this point

[Mikes2nd]

all the bolts down on the flywheel? check all the clearances make sure everything is down. Yes do not put serious pressure or you could be in trouble. It should spin easy to that 4th bolt. If its sticking like that, it seems like its a clearance issue.

Are you putting a few tranny bolts in before you spin the torque converter to connect the tranny to the flywheel? to seat fully

[green-lantern]

When you mate the engine to the trans does it completely mate up flush? Can you spin the trans without the TC on? If you can spin the spine on the trans all the way around and the engine will spin then I’d have to think the TC is bad.

[mcshooter]

a friend of mine had one of the flex plate bolts rubbing the engine block casting and would also not turn freely...

[Danube_3KGT]

its not spinning before I ever go to bolt it to the flexplate..

[Mikes2nd]

well that ain't right! :)

arent there notches on the auto tranny that it settles into? looks like your tc is in all the way.

and your able to get it fully on(tranny is tight up against the block)? and made sure its not binding... is it a new tq? or another one?
Seems like the tq might not be seating fully in the center hole. or something whacky going on there.

[green-lantern]

I would look very closely at the TC and then the splines to make sure it’s lined up (you might need to twist something around a bit), then put it on as far as I could, take a rubber mallet and tap it some but not to hard to see if it might pop on a bit more.

If I was there helping you out that’s what I would try 1st anyway.

[Valhallaz]

If you decide you need another torque converter, like I said, I have one in the garage with 10 miles or so on it (the car was drivin from the transmission shop to home, then I swapped in a 5 speed). It's supposed to be a higher stall (800 over stock). I'd let you have it for 40 and shipping if you want to go that route. PM me if you're interested.
I remember you saying you were having problems finding one...
This is out of a 92, if it matters.

[mcshooter]

is this a different convertor?, if so a balance weight could be hitting the bell housing..

[Danube_3KGT]

nope, this is the one that was in it when i removed the trans.. I got it on and bolted all the way but its not spinning again, this is driving me crazy

[mcshooter]

can you turn the tranny over with the tc off ? the tc is simply a hydraulic clutch. try turning it in a different gear

[Mikes2nd]

watch this... it looks seated but not sure... check the notch.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFFIPyv2C_4

[nodoze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO4CJaH2Qro&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

even better link , dsm auto and 3/s auto are VERY VERY similar

[nodoze]

yea did you check your pilot bearing installation direction in the flywheel?? on the dsm the bushing can be flipped but will only let the trans go in one way properly

[Mikes2nd]

I think something is wrong...

Maybe run it down to a tranny shop?

[Danube_3KGT]

ill try what they say in the last video, need to get some grease and more fluid i guess

[nodoze]

i dont use grease when i put mine together i use engine oil but theyare the experts

[Danube_3KGT]

Alright, just did the video shit. I sanded, put in ATX fluid and even put the jelly on it and the shit is still locking up.The TQ turns 3/4 of a circle back and forth but won't circle completely. I feel like giving up

[green-lantern]

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/AT02.pdf

Some good info here and there is a bench testing part. I'm starting to wonder if something is wrong with the trans though.

[BaadVR4]

The torque convertor should rotate freely no matter what condition anything else is in unless the condition of something is broken. The convertor is an installed slippage device, allowing the engine to rotate while the rest of the drivetrain is stationary. So, no matter what the trans status is, if the torque convertor won't spin freely, something is broke.

[green-lantern]

The torque convertor should rotate freely no matter what condition anything else is in unless the condition of something is broken. The convertor is an installed slippage device, allowing the engine to rotate while the rest of the drivetrain is stationary. So, no matter what the trans status is, if the torque convertor won't spin freely, something is broke.

I was thinking if the trans is in neutral then it would have to spin. So it must be a trans problem but I just don't know a lot about autos.

[stealthee]

He's already stated it spins fine without the TC attached. The fact that it hangs up and wont spin once the TC is put into place says there is something wrong with the TC itself.

[green-lantern]

He's already stated it spins fine without the TC attached. The fact that it hangs up and wont spin once the TC is put into place says there is something wrong with the TC itself.

I guessed I missed that but shouldn't it spin the transmission then? if the TC was locked up it would seem the trans would turn.

[mcshooter]

gl is right, the tc is a hydraulic clutch and should turn the tranny if the tranny is not in park???? i cant believe you cannot determine what is stopping it from turning. does it stop turning in exactly the same place?

[BaadVR4]

The TQ is essentially a set of turbine wheels, one attached to the crankshaft,the other attached to the transmission input shaft. The two turbine wheels are hydraulically connected by the transmission fluid. When the engine speed is low, the two wheels can "slip", allowing the engine to turn while the transmission itself is not turning. Above a certain engine speed, the two wheels cannot slip relative to each other. That is called "stall speed" and is determined by the design of the TQ. The trans needs hydraulic pressure to operate, so the pump has to be turned by the part of the TQ attached to the crankshaft. This is usually done by a male-to-female tang set up. The splined trans input shaft is connected to the turbine wheel which is not mechanically connected to the crankshaft. So, when the TQ is installed into the trans, getting the splines lined up is only half the job. The TQ has to have the oil pump drive tangs aligned and completely inserted. Usually this is done by rotating the TQ while applying gentle pressure on it, toward the trans. On most trans/TQ installs, there is definite "clunk" when the oil pump drive tangs are fully engaged. One way of checking full engagement is to put the trans on the trans/eng dowel pins and see if the eng and trans flanges will mate. They should not only mate fully, but the TQ should be anywhere from 1/8" to 1/4" away from the flexplate. And the TQ should turn freely. Usually, the reason the TQ doesn't turn is the engine/trans has been bolted together with the oil pump drive tangs not aligned and when the bolts are tightened to draw the engine and trans together, the male tang pieces break, causing the TQ to not rotate fully/freely. If this is the case, the TQ will need replaced and the broken pieces removed from the trans. Sorry if this is bad news for OP, but the TQ needs to be removed and checked. If TQ won't rotate freely after installing it in the trans, then something is broken, either in the TQ or in the trans. Period.

[Danube_3KGT]

agreed, im pretty sure the tq is broke and im buying another one most likely

[BaadVR4]

Sorry. Just make sure you find all the pieces. Otherwise, the debris will self destruct EVERYTHING yet again. Good luck with repairs.

[Danube_3KGT]

theres no debri, i assume that its internally broken

[BaadVR4]

Depends. If a drive tang breaks, it may remain in the trans. If the TQ is broken, just make sure you get all the pieces out.

[green-lantern]

Sounds like he might have broke it trying to install it before. I remember him saying he heard a "ping" noise or something like that.

[BaadVR4]

Yeah, I just want to make sure any/all pieces that may have broken off are retrieved so they don't cause another failure. Once is enough. I know. I've broken a race TQ "back in the day" exactly this way and nearly $1000 was a VERY expensive lesson in 1977. Would like for my experience to help someone else. Even if I am too late to prevent the initial breakage.

[green-lantern]

I can understand that, I do know what a little bit of crap can do to an auto trans.

Good posts BTW Milt

[Danube_3KGT]

so, bad news guys. I got a new torque convertor in the mail today and installed it and its still doing it. 3/4 of a circle then locking up. wtf!?

[BaadVR4]

The torque convertor has probably broken the drive tangs on the oil pump. Like I said before, you have to remove/replace all the broken parts before it will go together again.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

i did this one to a gm trans and broke the front pump in the trans. It was not obvious until the trans was apart.

[Danube_3KGT]

so i need to replace the pump?

[Danube_3KGT]

also, i was told today that there may be a spacer that goes in with the torque convertor, does anyone know if there is suppose to be one?

[$$$PIT]

No, there's no spacer in the torque converter. If it's the right converter.