More 13T times

[B-Man]

I went to an autox/drag event over the weekend and got a few times.

My best was 13.09@103.7 with a 60' of 1.88. I'm only running ~15psi because I was trying lock in my tune before upping the boost some more. I really wanted to hit 12s but I don't have my quadco OS in and my t-case needs replacing so I didn't keep running.

When I launched using two-step, I was getting 60' times of 1.9 but much more consistent than without. Logs show it still bogs a little bit.

The track didn't have their scales on :( I wanted to know how much my car weighs.

I'll post timeslips later. I forgot them in my car and I rode my motorcycle today.

[UTRacerX9]

First time dragging the car? What mods do you have?

[B-Man]

First time in about 2 years.

Major mods are 13T, e-manage ultimate, and 680cc injectors.

The car does have 192k original miles, so I can't imagine the motor is all that strong.

[93SlugTT]

I'm not trying to be a Dick, but those times are.horriable for what you have done. On my stealth which only had some chip that upped the boost to 14psi stock everything else when 13.2 at 104.7 with a 2.1. 60. U need to serious work on your tune and see what's up with ur far. That should be a 12 second car all day

[lawdogg]

Yay for 13Ts gettin down the track! Can you post any of the logs?

[B-Man]

I didn't actually save any of the logs. I just reviewed them and pitched them when I was done.

[B-Man]

I'm not trying to be a Dick, but those times are.horriable for what you have done. On my stealth which only had some chip that upped the boost to 14psi stock everything else when 13.2 at 104.7 with a 2.1. 60. U need to serious work on your tune and see what's up with ur far. That should be a 12 second car all day

STM gains 24mph between 1/8 and 1/4 mile. I gained 23, so the back end power is there. 1.9 60' is eh. So, I'm guessing it's in between. I know shift are a pain with the mafless EMU because the accel map I'm using from Grayson just isn't working for my car. I tried to modify it and it just didn't seem to be keeping up. I'm probably going to switch tuning systems this winter.

[2fnloud]

STM gains 24mph between 1/8 and 1/4 mile. I gained 23, so the back end power is there. 1.9 60' is eh. So, I'm guessing it's in between. I know shift are a pain with the mafless EMU because the accel map I'm using from Grayson just isn't working for my car. I tried to modify it and it just didn't seem to be keeping up. I'm probably going to switch tuning systems this winter.

What you thinking Bman, flash tuning?

[B-Man]

Nah, I don't want to bother putting all that shit together. I just need a MAS of some sort (Stock, MAF-T, etc)

[Rakuny]

The times are interesting.. my car ran 13.04 at 108.x mph at NG launching at 4k with a 1.98 60ft
only mods really are the 13T's, Walbro and exhaust.. my car may be a bit lighter with the few deletes I'ev done, but 5mph trap speed is a significant difference for times SO close
I would think especially with the jackhammer cam gears that 15psi should definitely have netted you 12's
I wonder what your compression numbers look like..

[B-Man]

The next weekend I have free I think I'm going to do a compression check (and plugs while I'm there).

[Rakuny]

yah, even if you only had time to check the front bank, that would give you a good idea.

[futurevr4man]

you guys gotta work on those launches. i was cutting mid 1.7's all day the one and only time i went to the strip, and i didnt sidestep the clutch at all. i had bigger turbos, but especially with a 2 step you should be able to get off the line with a 1.8 flat at worst i would think.

the car sounds like it runs strong otherwise, so congrats on that. get that 60' down and you will just start peeling off times from the et's

[Rakuny]

Personally, I took it easy on the launch to preserve my 18 spline output shaft, I know that's what bman has as well

[Alan92RTTT]

I'm not trying to be a Dick, but those times are.horriable for what you have done. On my stealth which only had some chip that upped the boost to 14psi stock everything else when 13.2 at 104.7 with a 2.1. 60. U need to serious work on your tune and see what's up with ur far. That should be a 12 second car all day

Just goes to show you don't understand somethings about turbo systems.

Bigger turbos alone will not make your car faster. More boost or moving away from TD04 manifolds will. You're both running TD04 based turbos and pushing almost the same amount of boost. Similar power results are to be expected. The difference is at 14psi you're basically maxed and Brian has not scratched the surface of what he can do.

[lawdogg]

For the sake of argument, on stock injectors and 9b's at 15psi I ran a 12.7 @ 109, then with 13Ts at 12psi I ran a 12.4 @ 112. Same setup otherwise - stock injectors, SMICs, etc.

B-Man too bad you tossed the logs. :( Wish we could see what's going on with the tune. But with such a MPH gain in the back 1/8th (you gained the same back mph - 23 - that I did on my 11.8 run, too), maybe the tune is great and you just gotta start powershifting 1-2-3. :p

[B-Man]

1/8 Mile is at 80mph, which means I'm already in 3rd by that point. So, yes, it could be that I'm not shifting fast enough (sure felt like I was slamming them) or the bogs between gears because of tune is bad enough that it's slowing me down (I'm more convinced of this)

So, yeah, good point, Ryan.

Logs basically looked like 12.0-11.8 afr after the accel portion was done (didn't check timing). I've seen 20.0afr at 7psi before because my accel map just isn't right. It's been a problem I've been fighting with ever since I put in the EMU.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

wow that 1/8th speed is super low. I was trapping 89.3 on a similar setup and boost level. I trapped 80 when I first got the car and nothing worked right. That was on the most messed up tune you could ever ask for.

[niterydr]

I also concur that something is off. Get some logs and shoot them over if you want a second set of eyes.
My old 93 went 13.065@103.97, mods on that car at the time of that pass:
mbc @ 14.5psi
NGK plugs
NGK wires
No boost leaks
Stillen intake
Stock 90k car, and it was 90 degrees out, stock clutch even, 1.811 60'

[B-Man]

wow that 1/8th speed is super low. I was trapping 89.3 on a similar setup and boost level. I trapped 80 when I first got the car and nothing worked right. That was on the most messed up tune you could ever ask for.

You've tried MAFless with the EMU, haven't you? Did you ever get tip-in/accel working well?

I'll take a drag-like log next time I drive the car. Weather has been nice this week, so I haven't been driving it much.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

You've tried MAFless with the EMU, haven't you? Did you ever get tip-in/accel working well?

I'll take a drag-like log next time I drive the car. Weather has been nice this week, so I haven't been driving it much.

yeah it worked reasonably well. Worst part was I couldn't get the idle steady in all conditions.

[B-Man]

Idle I can seem to get it to do ok. Do you still have an old accel map I can look at, or were you just using Grayson's?

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

yeah i'll see what i can find, but I'm not sure its going to help you. My car on the MAFT has some tip-ip issues if you use the highspeed emanage logger. I'm going to replace the TPS and see if it had an issue, but its going to be a few months before its back on the road again.

[sublime_whatigo]

That sounds similar to my 12.6 i ran last year. 1.72 60ft, 83mph 1/8 and only trapped 107. A good portion of that run I had 1 degree of timing plus a few that emanage was adding.

[B-Man]

yeah i'll see what i can find, but I'm not sure its going to help you. My car on the MAFT has some tip-ip issues if you use the highspeed emanage logger. I'm going to replace the TPS and see if it had an issue, but its going to be a few months before its back on the road again.

You mean you can see it be lean, but don't feel a stumble?

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

You mean you can see it be lean, but don't feel a stumble?

yeah i never see a stumble on shifts or anything that extreme.

[B-Man]

Long shot, but do you have a drag log from when you were mafless so I can see what it's SUPPOSED to be like?

About to head out to find a suitable road.....in Can-eh-dia........:suspect:

[B-Man]

Attached is a new log. Have fun.

It does feel like the clutch is slipping at launch.

Interesting bit is at 4800-5000msec. I've posted about this issue before in the e-manage tuning thread with not much response. I appreciate your help.

[lawdogg]

Interesting bit is at 4800-5000msec. I've posted about this issue before in the e-manage tuning thread with not much response.

I am probably going to win the award for Captain Obvious but your output duty cycle seems to flutter ... I'm trying to make a 3-D excel chart with throtte, RPM, and IDC but I am failing. And, did you log knock and timing at all?

[AdamVR4]

I am probably going to win the award for Captain Obvious but your output duty cycle seems to flutter ... I'm trying to make a 3-D excel chart with throtte, RPM, and IDC but I am failing. And, did you log knock and timing at all?

I don't recall having much luck with that in excel either. Matlab?

[lawdogg]

Gonna have to hook up my external HD with all my college computer's files on it. Step 2, remember how the hell to use it. :p

[B-Man]

I did do something similar in Matlab with another file. It was really choppy map because I was using a really fine resolution, but I never really refined it.

I imagine the output DC 'flutter' is from the fluctuation in pressure.

EMU doesn't log timing or knock. Someone else is using my palm right now.

[B-Man]

Here's what I did with matlab. I changed the resolution. It's plotting my drive home which obviously doesn't cover all ranges.

X and Y are rpm and boost. Y is afr.

EDIT: Well, shit, it won't let me upload at work. I'll have to do it when I get home.

[lawdogg]

I'm not sure what the difference is between input and output duty cycles? I'm completely emanage illiterate so I apologize. But the log shows ~80% duty cycle outputs, which I am assuming means that you are seeing 80% duty cycles on the 680's, that's like 600bhp (with 43psi base rail pressure and 0.55 BSFC). Your AFR is high 11's / low 12's which seems right. (I can't figure out how 13Ts at 15psi can get 80% IDCs out of 680s, but hey, there it is.) So it seems healthy and strong. UNLESS IM MISSING SOMETHING HUGE LOLOL

Like we talked about before, the back 1/8th is all 3rd gear, and a 23mph gain is great for 15psi ... so the "real world" might corroborate the health of the tune.

So looking at your log I'm kind of at a loss as to how it's unhealthy ... and like before I can't figure out why your front 1/8th isn't seeing 90+mph traps at mid 7's, unless it's something to do with shifting or something. I dunno man.

[B-Man]

Input duty cycle is from the ECU to the EMU. The EMU them modifies it to Output duty cycle, which is actually what the injectors are doing.

I'm gonna eat dinner and take a look at it again, but I do see what you mean, it is hitting ~80% duty cycle when it spikes to ~17psi.

[niterydr]

For the size of the injectors compared to stock, and what the correction map shows, car is requiring some fuel. Any way to log timing and knock? As lawdogg stated car seems healthy and the backside of the track is great, just that short time needs work. How are your shifts, .36 seconds per shift if the logs are correct, if you can knock that down into the .2's, that'll drop .2 off the first 1/8 mile.

Maybe you just need to drive harder? As long as the timing/knock looks good, up the boost a bit more, throw in that upgraded OS, and give it hell.

[B-Man]

I'd have to get my palm back from my friend in order to log timing and knock. I'm not sure how to get them on the same trace as afr since they're coming from two different sources.

[niterydr]

You could log both and try to match up by RPM?

[sublime_whatigo]

^ That, or wire the wideband out into the egrt and log with palm.

[B-Man]

If I used the EGRT and logged through palm, I'd be missing a lot of data like a real TPS (not the 14-98% bullshit), throttle open rate, output duty cycle, etc.

Just doesn't seem like there's a good way to do it. Just ways around it.

[TwIzTeD_3kGt]

Why so much injector? 680 is huge for 13T's. Are you running E85?

[B-Man]

No, just happened to be what I had available.

[niterydr]

I'd log them seperate and blend them on an excel spreadsheet for analysis.

[lawdogg]

Something that is interesting to me is how the AFR gets marginally more lean in each consecutive gear.

e.g. You seem to average around 11.7 (with a range of 11.5-11.8) in 1st, 12.0 (with a range of 11.9-12.1) in 2nd, and 12.3 (with a range of 12.5 saturating to 12.1) in 3rd.

Thought I'd toss up some charts of AFR, Boost, and IDC.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HlCpxsbWAl0/To-oNaNiMpI/AAAAAAAADM0/ifMbtNiLgZs/s800/AFR%252520Chart.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YB1AnC3yeCo/To-oM1zvr-I/AAAAAAAADMw/23svVCettWY/s800/Boost%252520Chart.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6vhteOzUdOM/To-oOZrEShI/AAAAAAAADMs/WSghoVZOfLo/s800/IDC%252520Chart.jpg

[B-Man]

That dip in IDC from in first gear is wierd.

Boost drops with RPM, stupid MBC :mad:

I have no idea what to make of the gear/afr graph. I can't even think of how to fix that with how my tune is set up.

IDC is lower in first gear, but afr is richer?

Ryan, you just blew my mind with those graphs.


EDIT: Dip in the IDC is from the bog.

[lawdogg]

Maybe that was your clutch slipping? I'm not sure. You took this log on a launch, or while you were driving? The IDC dips while the revs come down from 5,XXX to 4,XXX ... I'm assuming this was you launching?

And yeah ... I dunno about the other stuff. :(

[B-Man]

I did a two-step launch.

You beat me to the dip in rpm lol

[lawdogg]

This blows my mind too man. It's like it's trying to tell us a story about how your car is working. We just need to figure out how to read the language ... lol.

It is weird about the IDC and the AFR. And it doesn't seem like IDC corresponds to boost either, really ... ??

Next step is to figure out how to put regression lines on the data, and then overlay it all onto the same chart. I have a new hatred for Excel. :p

[B-Man]

The new excel sucks :mad: