Restoration of my 94 VR4

[STiedVR4Guy]

So I bought this car back in 2008 I believe. I am the 3rd owner.

When I got it it had 125,xxx miles and currently has 165,xxx miles. I don't believe that anyone has ever replaced any of the suspension prior to me.

So begin my quest to get this thing to the track...
Frist. Buy a honda civic to drive back and fourth to work. Check

Second, buy stuff to replace all the worn out and neglected pieces of the car.
OEM ECS struts
Eibach Lowering springs
(should have just gone with coilovers same damn price lol :()
3sx Suspension poly bushing kit
Energy suspension poly sway bar bushings
AWS delete kit (have to put on yet)
Front ball joints
Drivers side axle/CV joint
Rear wheel hub
3sx adjustable rear control arms

I worked on this project over a few weekends with my dad who is an old car nut. He normally just works on boring echo boxes that drive people from point A to point B but he used to have a few E-Type Jag's (xke I think) when he was younger so he has always been into the fast car stuff.

After countless hours we finally completed all of this stuff without breaking anything on the car. I finally got it aligned the other day and got some new tires put on and HOLY @#%@# does it feel smooth. I dont think this car has been in alignment for a LONG time. Gradually replacing all of the old stuff.

Just though I would share.

[MR2]

Cool! doing the same thing most of us have had ot do :)

can I suggest you do both front Hubs as well.

do the steering rack boots..

and your better off without coilovers, stock ECS is amazing.

[STiedVR4Guy]

Ok, on this subject, I have a few complaints. I used to have an STi and the steering on that thing was fucking TIGHT! Turn in response was instant and there was zero slack in the steering wheel. This I have about an inch + before it really starts to turn in. So, to get my STi that way was replacing the steering rack bushings with some really hard polyurethane. I know there isn't an option for that on this car. Is there anything else that I should look at or that can be improved to remove all the slack from the steering wheel?

Second, I am still getting a slight vibration in the steering wheel after everything is said and done. Can this be caused by the car still being out of alignment? or is it probably just a bad job on balancing the tires? Any other suggestions to what it could be???

[MR2]

there is worth of there being 2 x different steering racks for the GTO...one is loose (as you say) the other is tight (like a tiger) odd reports from different people about what cars had what racks.

Vibration could be any number of things....slight tread issue, wheel bearing going, CV's needing replacing, rear engine mount bouncing off subframe

[STiedVR4Guy]

there is worth of there being 2 x different steering racks for the GTO...one is loose (as you say) the other is tight (like a tiger) odd reports from different people about what cars had what racks.

Vibration could be any number of things....slight tread issue, wheel bearing going, CV's needing replacing, rear engine mount bouncing off subframe

This is interesting. Is there a way to identify the difference between the 2? Could someone else chime in on this?

I do not have my rear motor mount replaced with the poly one yet... that could be it. Otherwise I have checked all of the wheel bearings, replaced one of my CV joints (the others feel tight). Tires and alignment are brand new.

[vr4tune]

My steering rack is leaking and I was wanting to replace it. One thought was to se if I could get an Evo rack to fit. I wonder if they had updated the rack on the 3000gt in the later years.

[MR2]

no-one has given me any info on what the two different rack's are sorry man, my steering is great.

I guess find a few vins and throw them on the part finder and look for the different part numbers (other than the AWS)

[IPD]

if you're keeping the OEM struts, you should look at replacing the strut mounts. unfortunately, you already got it aligned....so.....

[green-lantern]

Frist. Buy a honda civic to drive back and fourth to work. Check



Now here is a guy that knows how to mod a car! It’s always the 1st thing that needs to be done when modifying a 3s. :lo5l:

[STiedVR4Guy]

no-one has given me any info on what the two different rack's are sorry man, my steering is great.

I guess find a few vins and throw them on the part finder and look for the different part numbers (other than the AWS)

Sorry forgot to mention this, I did replace them when I replaced the struts. One of the bearings wouldn't even turn lol.

Would also like to know if anyone has looked into replacing the rack with an evo rack? they are very responsive like I am looking for.

Another thing would be getting a VERY hard poly bushing for the rack, I dont know if that would get rid of the slack, I'll look into it.

[DocWalt]

You aren't going to want to swap in an Evo rack, the steering ratio is completely wrong for a 3S. Just replace the rack and use poly bushings everywhere. Even with all new OEM bushings and a new rack in my VR-4 it handled a LOT better. Obviously not at all like my Evo (a 3S won't handle the same anyway) but still fantastic for a big GT car.

[STiedVR4Guy]

You aren't going to want to swap in an Evo rack, the steering ratio is completely wrong for a 3S. Just replace the rack and use poly bushings everywhere. Even with all new OEM bushings and a new rack in my VR-4 it handled a LOT better. Obviously not at all like my Evo (a 3S won't handle the same anyway) but still fantastic for a big GT car.

Do you know of anyone that makes a poly steering rack bushing? The other thing I was thinking of is just making a metal one.

[DocWalt]

To be quite honest, the stock bushings are going to be fantastic if you buy new ones. They're not at all like the STI's super soft squishy bushings, the bushings on a 3S rack are pretty thin and don't have much wiggle. I don't know of anyone that makes poly bushings to replace the steering rack bushings.

Another idea is to use a smaller steering wheel so it requires a bit more force to turn, but also makes it quicker to turn.

[STiedVR4Guy]

To be quite honest, the stock bushings are going to be fantastic if you buy new ones. They're not at all like the STI's super soft squishy bushings, the bushings on a 3S rack are pretty thin and don't have much wiggle. I don't know of anyone that makes poly bushings to replace the steering rack bushings.

Another idea is to use a smaller steering wheel so it requires a bit more force to turn, but also makes it quicker to turn.

Aright, I do have to order some things from 3sx soon so I might add one in there just for the hell of it. On my 04 STi that was a known issue that the bushings were garbage from the factory and the whiteline ones I replaced them with were stiff as a rock. That thing was SO responsive when you turned the wheel even a cm it would turn and that is what I am looking for.

[DocWalt]

That kind of steering just isn't going to happen with a 3S without a LOT of work. You could maybe try new upper plates and adjust the caster.

[STiedVR4Guy]

That kind of steering just isn't going to happen with a 3S without a LOT of work. You could maybe try new upper plates and adjust the caster.

I know it isn't going to turn any faster I just want the massive amount of slack out of the steering wheel. The first inch you turn it either way does nothing. I had the same problem with my STi and I fixed it. I don't see why that can't be done with this car.

[DocWalt]

It's not going to be nearly as easy because it's a completely different rack mounting system. The STI had those REALLY soft rack bushings that caused the slop. There's no one big source of slop on a 3S, it's just the summation of all the squish in all of the rubber bushings.

I also had the inch of vagueness on my VR4 that was fixed with a new rack. Everyone that drove the car commented on how firm the steering was, and I had only replaced the rack (outer and inner tie rods included) and the LCA bushings. I hadn't tackled the crap struts or subframe bushings.

[STiedVR4Guy]

It's not going to be nearly as easy because it's a completely different rack mounting system. The STI had those REALLY soft rack bushings that caused the slop. There's no one big source of slop on a 3S, it's just the summation of all the squish in all of the rubber bushings.

I also had the inch of vagueness on my VR4 that was fixed with a new rack. Everyone that drove the car commented on how firm the steering was, and I had only replaced the rack (outer and inner tie rods included) and the LCA bushings. I hadn't tackled the crap struts or subframe bushings.

One thing I know there is a slight leak from one of the AWS lines going to the back. If there is not the normal amount of PS fluid pressurized in the system would this cause slop as well?

I do have a freshly rebuilt steering rack sitting in my room... Maybe I should replace that when doing the AWS delete and get a new bushing. If its supposed to be tight then I believe you, it just seems a bit crazy on how much slack there is.

[STiedVR4Guy]

It's not going to be nearly as easy because it's a completely different rack mounting system. The STI had those REALLY soft rack bushings that caused the slop. There's no one big source of slop on a 3S, it's just the summation of all the squish in all of the rubber bushings.

I also had the inch of vagueness on my VR4 that was fixed with a new rack. Everyone that drove the car commented on how firm the steering was, and I had only replaced the rack (outer and inner tie rods included) and the LCA bushings. I hadn't tackled the crap struts or subframe bushings.

One thing I know there is a slight leak from one of the AWS lines going to the back. If there is not the normal amount of PS fluid pressurized in the system would this cause slop as well?

I do have a freshly rebuilt steering rack sitting in my room... Maybe I should replace that when doing the AWS delete and get a new bushing. If its supposed to be tight then I believe you, it just seems a bit crazy on how much slack there is.

[DuTTch]

Frist. Buy a honda civic

.

there is where you lost us

[STiedVR4Guy]

there is where you lost us


Now here is a guy that knows how to mod a car! It’s always the 1st thing that needs to be done when modifying a 3s. :lo5l:

Go polish something Dutch lol

My civic is brand spanking new with warranty and everything, not modded with a fartcan and never getting anything except OEM stuff for maintenance and snowtires for winter.

[DocWalt]

One thing I know there is a slight leak from one of the AWS lines going to the back. If there is not the normal amount of PS fluid pressurized in the system would this cause slop as well?

I do have a freshly rebuilt steering rack sitting in my room... Maybe I should replace that when doing the AWS delete and get a new bushing. If its supposed to be tight then I believe you, it just seems a bit crazy on how much slack there is.

The leak shouldn't affect the slop.

[STiedVR4Guy]

I'll just add to this thread, looking at clutches. Does anyone have any recommendations? I don't plan on making anything over 400 whp for a while. Would like to make around 500 in the future. This is not a daily driven car and I plan to road course it as often as I can. I am not looking for comfort or easy to drive, I am looking for lasting function that won't break. I don't like launching the shit out of it or banging gears either so don't worry about that.

Looking for 6/4/?? Puck and a reliable brand. Thanks!

[STiedVR4Guy]

So I did my brakes this weekend. Got new SS lines installed, Brand new DBA 4000 rotors (slotted), and Carbotech AX6 pads. speed bleeders, bled the brakes properly.

Took it out, beded the brakes, after the 6th slowdown, started to feel the vibration in the front end again.... So irritated by this. It HAS to be something else.. The quest continues... *sigh*

[DocWalt]

I'm still thinking LCA bushings, but that's mostly because that was exactly my issue, lol.

[STiedVR4Guy]

I'm still thinking LCA bushings, but that's mostly because that was exactly my issue, lol.

I just re did all of those.... I'm starting to think something with the ABS might be doing it. Is there supposed to be a fuse under the label marked "ABS" in the fuse box? because mine is just an empty hold lol.

I have had everyone tell me over and over that is either:
1. uneven pad wear
2. un proper wheel bolting technique
3. everything else under the sun.

I just got brand new pads and DBA 4000 Rotors and F$%^ them up instantly while trying to bed them? That's BS, I scrubbed the hubs, star pattern'd the wheels, torqued by hand and bed-ed them properly. I think I'm just going to replace both front hubs, do the steering rack and bushing. Maybe the steering is allowing to much play under hard braking?

[DocWalt]

I had play from the tie rod ends (inner & outer) that allowed vibration under braking.

I also had an issue with my aftermarket wheels and not having hub centric rings installed. No matter how hard I tried the wheel would be slightly off center and vibrate. Do you have stock wheels or aftermarket?

[STiedVR4Guy]

Aftermarket, 5Zigen fn0rc1's (or w/e they are), now that you bring that up, I wonder.... They dont have a flat surface around the whole hub. The center I am not sure of though. I know what you're reffering to with the rings, I had them on my STi when I got aftermarket wheels.

I have been contemplating getting a new set. Does anyone have any complaints about the Enkei RPF1's?

[STiedVR4Guy]

SOOOOO, I just went and bought these..............................
http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc346/TitanGenesis/IMG_20110802_145439.jpg

I remember having these on the wheels I got for my STi... God damn it if that has been the problem the whole time I'm going to be so mad...

[DocWalt]

Hey, at least you'll know that a lot of your suspension is new :p

[STiedVR4Guy]

Hey, at least you'll know that a lot of your suspension is new :p

Yea it needed it anyways, but I might have saved myself $500+ in rotors....

[STiedVR4Guy]

Good news! The centric rings fixed my wobble under hard breaking FINALLY!!

[DocWalt]

Good news! The centric rings fixed my wobble under hard breaking FINALLY!!

Awesome. Now swap that rack in ha (I did a howto guide on the rack that's on here :p)

[STiedVR4Guy]

I think I'm going to do it when I do my exhaust/rear MM because most of that needs to come out anyways. I have a downpipe and some other things to put in. I might look into figuring out how to set up a manual steering rack with the original one.

[STiedVR4Guy]

So I took my car to the track sunday. It's a go cart track so very short and sharp turns etc.

I believe my biggest setback was my wheels and tires.

So I am wondering, what is the widest wheel + tire combo (17 or 18) I can fit on my car with a stock suspension (+lowering springs) and stock brakes? Also, at some point I would like to upgrade to stoptech brakes, how big of a rim will I need to fit them in.

car is a 94 VR4

[MR2]

honestly I'd go with 18x9+42 ish offset.

your still going to be in a bit of a battle for the spoke design, there is "garanteed" offset, you need to go to a shop and just try rims till you get somewhere

I went 19x10 with a fair amount of stuffing around, planning on 18x11 in a few months)

[STiedVR4Guy]

Is that with stock ECS struts and lowering springs or do you have coilovers?

[MR2]

the 18x9 +42 (or +38, don't go much past +38 if you want to avoid having all the annoying shit start to happen like bump steer/bearings failing prematurely)

the 19x10 and 18x11 are with coilovers, knuckle adjustments and custom camber/castor tops.

[STiedVR4Guy]

I'm thinking 18x9.5 would be ideal for the time being. I want to get Enkei RPF01's and put some really sticky track tires on.

[MR2]

only reason I'm suggeting x9 no x9.5 is the 9.5 tends to be a little close to guards, but yeah go for it!! :)

[STiedVR4Guy]

HMMMMM, I should probably just save for coilovers........

[MR2]

your insane, stock ecs suspension is to die for (in my opinion)

[STiedVR4Guy]

They did perform exceptionally at the track and my dad who rode along with me was very impressed (hes been a mechanic/car nut for 40+ years). If I can get a 18x9.5 wheel/tire combo under there I'll stick with it.

Other things that revealed themselves: Need a new drive-shaft and definitely need to get that new steering rack with bushing in.

[Simace]

Not sure about other coilover systems, but I'll chime in on my experience with Megan (Street, i believe) coilovers...

After installing them, life will be good and the affect of putting in the new suspension will be good....but after a year or two, depending on how much you drive and your style of driving; you'll begin to have issues.

Some of the issues I've experienced;
-Clanking/rattling noise. Usually caused because the nut, just below the damper adjustment knob, comes lose. Thankfully, once you tighten it, you won't need to do it again - well for me this is the case.

-Seat Locks (perch) coming lose and, if not caught early on, will require you to re-adjust ride height and/or spring load. The ugly is that you will either need to use locktite or other similar product so that these seat locks remain in place or you will find yourself going through this again....and again....and again...so be sure to keep your spanner tools in sight

-Blown strut. It will happen, rest assured, especially the front. What I've learned is that the strut is the same one used for the Nissan 240 coilovers by Megan. When I found this out, I was surprised considering our car is significantly heavier than the Nissan 240. Oh and the strut can make a real big mess (oil).

-Alignment. As with any height adjustable coilover system, if you go with a height where camber/cast/etc cannot be used to compensate for the height, expect your tires to get worn quickly and your axel boots to go bad and cause them fail earlier than they would. I would say that lowering the rear = need to have adjustable control arms.

-Interior noise will increase over time. I give mitsubishi lots of credit here, even after 3 years with my coilovers, I have very little rattling from the interior. I've had to "pad" the rear interior trim (window edges and back piece) as it was the worst offender (but this might be due to the age of the interior.)

All in all, I say coilovers are good for someone that tracks their car or likes to push it. For their price, they would be good to be used on the weekend as it doesn't take too long to install/swap.

For a DD, IMHO, stick with the stock suspension and if ride height is an issue; go with some lowering springs. The stock suspension is more than sufficient for DD and spirited driving for sure, and the best thing about it; bumps are a non-issue.

You will come to know just how bad a road you once thought was smooth is with coilovers....and this alone will wear on you....

[STiedVR4Guy]

^ thank you for that. I do intend to get this to a track type car (just for fun, nothing competitive) and I don't usually drive it except on the weekends. I hear where you're coming from though, the ECS is fantastic. I'll see if I can get 18x9.5s on there.