What do you tune for?

[Goallie11]

What a/f ratio do you shoot for when tuning? Be it throttle based, load based, what ever, lets hear it.

I know a typically safe tune for WOT is10.8 but what about all the other points, 30%, 40% throttle, etc?

[mb3000]

I like to stay mid 750 deg. at light load like you're talking about. Around 700 or less at cruize.

EGT because I'm old school. :coo3l:

[Goallie11]

I like to stay mid 750 deg. at light load like you're talking about. Around 700 or less at cruize.

EGT because I'm old school. :coo3l:

I did say everything didn't I :Doh:

[HLxDrummer]

Most people don't really tune closed loop so it's hard to find information regarding that. I ran with no NB02s for a while and ran it fairly lean under 10 inches of vacuum (high 15s). Between 0 psi and 10 inches it taped from 14.7 to mid 13's. Then tapered again to like 11 at 6 psi, 10.6-10.7 at 12 and that's all the further I went. Had knock issues (I think unrelated to my tuning) so plugged them back in.

Now I plan to pull fuel at the injector level. Shooting for the same AFRs at WOT but will monitor knock after long, hard pulls to see what it wants. Hopefully no knock so I can crank up the timing :)

[Goallie11]

So most people just throw a base correction on the whole thing and call it good? I don't get that, I would think some have wanted to know where they should be during closed loop, because if something is causing the car to run lean or rich and you don't know it, that can cause problems.

And there's the added benefit of gas mileage if you tune it properly. I've just got a base correction on most of my map but I'd like to know what the partial throttle a/f ratio's should look like, just to know if I can run leaner or richer without causing damage. And I don't want to be the one finding out and hurting stuff :)

[B-Man]

In vacuum I try to keep it above 14, whatever feels good and gets me decent thottle response. 14.0 at 0psi 13.0 by ~4psi 12.0 by 10psi and 11.5-11.0 above.

[HLxDrummer]

So most people just throw a base correction on the whole thing and call it good? I don't get that, I would think some have wanted to know where they should be during closed loop, because if something is causing the car to run lean or rich and you don't know it, that can cause problems.

And there's the added benefit of gas mileage if you tune it properly. I've just got a base correction on most of my map but I'd like to know what the partial throttle a/f ratio's should look like, just to know if I can run leaner or richer without causing damage. And I don't want to be the one finding out and hurting stuff :)

Most people do. However, the "right" way (remember we are tricking our cars even doing it the right way unless you have AEM) is to tune closed loop so the trims are as close to 100 as possible.

I see what you are saying about monitoring AFRs during closed loop and agree 100%. Just like other gauges, it is good to keep an eye on them to make sure everything is running ok.

As far as tuning part throttle for mileage/etc. how do you plan to do this? You tune to anything other than 14.7 at part throttle and the NB02s will adjust trims to put it back. Basically impossible unless you mess with the NB02s (unplug, simulate, etc). with a piggyback. Tried unplugging them and as soon as the CEL came on it would knock like crazy no matter the tune. Others have had the light not come on and no knock so you can try your luck if you want.

[gltasn]

idle is 17.2-16.6ish
cruising is 14-13.2(about 3200rpms)
wot 11.0 but will see 12.5, awsome for pulls with race gas but, scary on pump.
egt's at wot 1250-1400f

ive got a knock control box that drops wich ever cyl is knocking, until it stops, and then adds it back in the mix.

[Goallie11]

As far as tuning part throttle for mileage/etc. how do you plan to do this? You tune to anything other than 14.7 at part throttle and the NB02s will adjust trims to put it back. Basically impossible unless you mess with the NB02s (unplug, simulate, etc). with a piggyback. Tried unplugging them and as soon as the CEL came on it would knock like crazy no matter the tune. Others have had the light not come on and no knock so you can try your luck if you want.

I have the front sensor unplugged, had to snip it a long time ago to get the precat out, and it seems running on just the one sensor in the rear precat the car doesn't adjust back to 14.7 as easily. I don't know if having both in would make it adjust itself better, but for me it seems the emanage blue has more control over the a/f ratio then the o2 sensors do.

And you're right about random knock, mine doesn't knock with the one sensor unplugged besides just random 2 counts every drive. Other cars might have issues, and you'd just have to do a case by case basis about that.


idle is 17.2-16.6ish
cruising is 14-13.2(about 3200rpms)
wot 11.0 but will see 12.5, awsome for pulls with race gas but, scary on pump.
egt's at wot 1250-1400f

ive got a knock control box that drops wich ever cyl is knocking, until it stops, and then adds it back in the mix.

Interesting that you're running that lean at idle, mine is typically below 16, I didn't think running higher than that would be safe for the engine. Don't you get worse gas mileage with the cruising idle in the 13-14 range instead of the high 14 to 15 range?

How tuned would you say you are? It seems if your ranging from 11.0 to 12.5 at WOT then you haven't gotten the tune down yet?

[gltasn]

Interesting that you're running that lean at idle, mine is typically below 16, I didn't think running higher than that would be safe for the engine. Don't you get worse gas mileage with the cruising idle in the 13-14 range instead of the high 14 to 15 range?

How tuned would you say you are? It seems if your ranging from 11.0 to 12.5 at WOT then you haven't gotten the tune down yet?

my idle always starts at 14.7 but if it sits it will stabilize at 16.6 or 17.2, deff lean but its just sitting there. if i breath on the gas pedal i get an instant responce! if i add a click to my arc 2 at the idle it idles very rich on start and coughs up clouds of fuel and, likes to die when i push in the clutch.

if i add a click to my wot setting on my arc i can have 11.0 when i stomp on it in 4th at full boost, or add a click and get 12.5, wich i feel safe running because i always have at least 100 octane fuel in my tank. is my tune down yet, hell no, but i know whats going on. i will prob never stop triing to fine tune her i recently redid all my pcv system and saw some diff numbers as of yesterday but, they were very close. i pretty much tune on the fly as theres no awd dyno access for me in ak. tunign the arc with the biggest injectors it can handle(720's) is touchy and sensitive.

[Goallie11]

Ok I thought you might be using an arc2. If you had a tuning method with more precise adjustments what would you go for?

I'm thinking about where the exact point is when the car needs addition fuel to control knock and what a/f ratio it needs at that point. For example does 30% throttle need less fuel than 35% or is the increment higher or lower. At what points can we get away with an a/f ratio of 14.7 (or higher) safely?

[J. Fast]

720cc, is that the ceiling on the arc? What's the resolution on your setup?

[gltasn]

720cc, is that the ceiling on the arc? What's the resolution on your setup?

according to matt the 720's are it. he was able to use 1000 but had to use another fuel comp on top of the arc2 to get them tuned. not sure what you mean by resolution but willing to explain when i do.

if i could pick an af ratio for wot and my build with 100 octane it would be 11.7-11.8. i feel thats the best trade for safty and power. might add a pound or 2 to the fuel pressure and fine tune it that way. i hit 20lbs about once per day and havent pushed her passed that. i know shes good for 35lbs+ but 20 pulls so hard and im getting older(39) so its plenty o fun. since shes a dd i wouldnt feel safe running more boost on the streets. hell people cant fathom the speeds this car can do and pull right out in front of me. i get the shit scared out of me, by others, from time to time.

[Ninja Performance]

idle is 17.2-16.6ish
cruising is 14-13.2(about 3200rpms)
wot 11.0 but will see 12.5, awsome for pulls with race gas but, scary on pump.
egt's at wot 1250-1400f

ive got a knock control box that drops wich ever cyl is knocking, until it stops, and then adds it back in the mix.

Normally n race gas you aren't gong to make more power running that lean. It normally makes the best power almost where gas does. 11.6-11.8.

You can however run ethanol into the 12's with no issues. My car on E95/M5 likes 12.2 at WOT. Idle is around 14 as is cruise in vac.

Pump I shoot for 11.6 max 11.0 for a safe tune.

-Chris

[HLxDrummer]

Does your cel come on with it cut? That's cool you don't get a ton of knock though! Just be careful though because each bank is trimmed individually so one might be rich and one lean.

[gltasn]

ive got 3 a/f gauges. one for each bank(narrow band) and a wideband at the 'y'. heres a pic of my gauges.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll126/gltasn/myview001.jpg
starting left to right is my eboost2 ebc/boost gauge, next to the narrow bands. then i have my knock gauge(goes to the j&s knock control box)m my egt and wideband. ive never had a check engine light!

[Goallie11]

Does your cel come on with it cut? That's cool you don't get a ton of knock though! Just be careful though because each bank is trimmed individually so one might be rich and one lean.

It does but it's just something to ignore. I have my wideband in the downpipe a ways after the "y" so I'm getting the combined a/f ratio, I don't think there'd be a huge difference in the banks to need two widebands.

And like gltasn mine wasn't ever on before either until I cut the cable.

[Ninja Performance]

I have stock gauges in stock location. I have one other gauge, AEM WB installed after the two banks merge, and I normally don't even pay attention to it. If a gauge says LOOK OUT, it's normally too late. And I lke to keep my eyes on the road, not watching gauges and flashy lights.

-Chris

[gltasn]

i too use gauges for tuning but dont watch them when driving with spirit. the arm units are nice in that if it does go lean its super bright red and hard to miss.