93 motor will not turn, just rebuilt, just installed.

[ichihollow]

ok, so i went to start my car today, didn't turn. the motor will not turn, i'm a little concerned about this, because before i mounted my transmission, i made sure the motor turned after i did the timing. after(and while) i mounted my transmission i made sure to turn the motor to make sure it continued to turn. I dropped the motor yesterday, it's fully assembled and all hooked up, i go to turn the key and nothing. tried adding a battery, nothing. adding another car, nothing. adding yet another car, nothing. put a socket wrench on my crank, wont turn. I'm not sure whats going on, and i really don't want to have to pull my motor out again.


EDIT: already removed the spark plugs and tried again with no success. Anyone have a good idea, i'm about to put some oil or diesel or sea foam or something in the cylinders to try and get the motor unstuck.

LETS EDIT AGAIN!!!: 92 R/T ATX tranny, 93 R/T block converted to be a 92 block.

[TwIzTeD_3kGt]

Did the starter click when you turned the key? Or did you really get nothing at all?

When you tried to turn the motor by hand, did you have the trans. in gear by chance?

Just stupid things to look for.

[ichihollow]

Did the starter click when you turned the key? Or did you really get nothing at all?

When you tried to turn the motor by hand, did you have the trans. in gear by chance?

Just stupid things to look for.

starter clicked once, not the repetitive click i'm used to hearing with a low battery.
i tried turning the motor by hand with the car in park and neutral, both should have allowed me to turn the motor.

[VR4]

Take the belts off and see if it will rotate. If not you'll have to pull the trans.

[ichihollow]

Take the belts off and see if it will rotate. If not you'll have to pull the trans.

damn, suppose it's better then pulling both.

[VR4]

damn, suppose it's better then pulling both.

Wait a sec...doesn't the torque converter use bolts? If the engine doesn't rotate with the belts off, pull the tc bolts out and see if you can rotate the tc independant of the engine. If you can (should be able to with all bolts removed) try rotating the engine again...if you can't then something is going on in the engine.

I the tc doesn't rotate pull the trans.

[ichihollow]

Wait a sec...doesn't the torque converter use bolts? If the engine doesn't rotate with the belts off, pull the tc bolts out and see if you can rotate the tc independant of the engine. If you can (should be able to with all bolts removed) try rotating the engine again...if you can't then something is going on in the engine.

I the tc doesn't rotate pull the trans.

will it be safe to try and move the TC by the starter, or should i try another method?

[VR4]

On another note.....if the engine won't rotate...how did you get the torque converter bolts in?

[Hans@GZP]

Maybe the TC bolts aren't tight and they jammed themselves against the block. Try manually turning the crank counter clockwise.

[TooFast4Radar]

Maybe the TC bolts aren't tight and they jammed themselves against the block. Try manually turning the crank counter clockwise.

I second this - makes the most sense to check that first.

[ichihollow]

On another note.....if the engine won't rotate...how did you get the torque converter bolts in?

The motor did rotate while it was on the crane when i installed the TC and rotated the motor by hand(ac/alt and PS belts were not on) to line up the holes, when i was installing the tranny, i turned the motor with a socket wrench. The motor saw at least 2(two) complete turns before it was lowered into the car, but there was 2 or 3 days between the last turn and today.


Maybe the TC bolts aren't tight and they jammed themselves against the block. Try manually turning the crank counter clockwise.

i'll check that but the motor hasn't started yet, there hasn't been a chance for the bolts to vibrate out. on turning the motor counter clockwise, how would you propose that be done, wrenching crank bolt will only loosen it. If there's another way please let me know but with out getting physical with the motor i don't know how to make it rotate it counter clockwise.

[VR4]

You installed the tc separate from the trans??? :eek:

[ichihollow]

You installed the tc separate from the trans??? :eek:

??? sorry not very familiar with ATX, but yeah, should i have slid the TC onto the tranny, bolted the tranny, and then bolted the TC? How do i align the TC that way?

this is why i hate ATX why can't every car be manuals where you just bolt it on and call it a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[VR4]

??? sorry not very familiar with ATX, but yeah, should i have slid the TC onto the tranny, bolted the tranny, and then bolted the TC? How do i align the TC that way?

this is why i hate ATX why can't every car be manuals where you just bolt it on and call it a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yes. Ill let someone else explain why as posting from my phone sucks. Its possible the front pump in the trans is crushed jamming the engine.

[MaxClass]

Turning the crank counter clockwise with the pulley nut should not loosen it if it is torqued to spec or even close. It normally takes a arm and two legs just to loosen it and that is if you have the spanner wrench that fits in the holes on the pulley.

You might check to make double sure that the transmission linkage is properly placing the transmission into neutral.

Something really simple is being overlooked here I think but I can't come up with what that would be at this point having not worked with ATX on these cars but not unfamiliar with them. I know that "fastnelson" has had lots of experience even racing with an ATX and probably knows them intimately. Maybe he will chime in here with a few suggestions.

Check Section 21-123 +/- [in mine] in the shop manual for more information. Is it possible that the TC is being wedged between the trans and the flywheel and not seated properly? Not certain but does the TC have a slot on the output side that mates up internally to turn the input shaft and if so did it seat inside the TX? If it did not seat then it could be jammed in there. Just a few guesses.

[ichihollow]

Yes. Ill let someone else explain why as posting from my phone sucks. Its possible the front pump in the trans is crushed jamming the engine.

but the motor and trans turned before i put it in the car, the motor and trans were mated and turning by hand, before i put it in the car.


Turning the crank counter clockwise with the pulley nut should not loosen it if it is torqued to spec or even close. It normally takes a arm and two legs just to loosen it and that is if you have the spanner wrench that fits in the holes on the pulley.

You might check to make double sure that the transmission linkage is properly placing the transmission into neutral.

Something really simple is being overlooked here I think but I can't come up with what that would be at this point having not worked with ATX on these cars but not unfamiliar with them. I know that "fastnelson" has had lots of experience even racing with an ATX and probably knows them intimately. Maybe he will chime in here with a few suggestions.

Check Section 21-123 +/- [in mine] in the shop manual for more information. Is it possible that the TC is being wedged between the trans and the flywheel and not seated properly? Not certain but does the TC have a slot on the output side that mates up internally to turn the input shaft and if so did it seat inside the TX? If it did not seat then it could be jammed in there. Just a few guesses.

I think your right about it being simple, and i think you're probably right about the linkage, how would i be able to check/adjust it to make sure it's properly in gear?

[Hans@GZP]

Take the trans and tc back off. I can guarantee that the tc isn't seated properly in the trans. You will ruin the trans pump if you start it.

When putting the tc in the trans you will need to spin it while gently pushing it on. It should sit inside the bellhousing about 1/4" or so.

[BadHabit]

loosen the bolts up on the starter just to be sure it is not locked into the flywheel.I had that happen a couple of times on a ford I had..
just my 2cents
BH

[Tackhammer]

Yea, i would check the starter first since its the easiest thing to check, and the only thing that is different than when the motor was hanging from the crane. Remove it and see if the gear is stuck out and if the engine will turn with it removed

[Tackhammer]

The 1 time i didnt have a TC lined up properly the trans wouldnt even come close to the block to put the bolts in the bellhousing so i doubt its the TC

[ichihollow]

The 1 time i didnt have a TC lined up properly the trans wouldnt even come close to the block to put the bolts in the bellhousing so i doubt its the TC

+1 was not TC/Tranny problem


Yea, i would check the starter first since its the easiest thing to check, and the only thing that is different than when the motor was hanging from the crane. Remove it and see if the gear is stuck out and if the engine will turn with it removed

+1 starter gear was not stuck out but was the fix.




loosen the bolts up on the starter just to be sure it is not locked into the flywheel.I had that happen a couple of times on a ford I had..
just my 2cents
BH

+2 WINNER!!! (cue loud brazilian soccer announcer) "GGGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!

As annoying as it is, the ford problem occurred, removed the starter checked to turn the motor by hand, it turned, reinstalled starter, tested it, it turned. yay, except not, now that the motor turns i've got a new issue, i'm not getting fuel.

had a spare TPS and fuel rails and injectors so they've already been swapped over, these parts are all confirmed working. Tried advancing and retarding the CAS, with no affects. tried with and with out MAF, the only time we got it started was with starter fluid. will not idle and dies as soon as the starter fluid goes away, regardless of pedal position.

any ideas?


EDIT: forgot to add that the fuel rails are pressurized, though i do not know if they are not staying pressurized or if the injectors are not being told to open.

[TUFFTR]

Good work!

to hear if they are open, get someone to crank the car and place a long screwdriver on the body of one injector, you should hear it ticking (like a stethoscope)

[BadHabit]

YEAHHHHH,I finally won something!!!!!
all kidding aside,glad it helped

BH

[ichihollow]

Good work!

to hear if they are open, get someone to crank the car and place a long screwdriver on the body of one injector, you should hear it ticking (like a stethoscope)

I'll give that a shot when i get back home today


YEAHHHHH,I finally won something!!!!!
all kidding aside,glad it helped

BH

I was hoping all day yesterday that thats what it was.