EFI University Review (101, Advanced)

[Intropy]

I thought I'd dump my thoughts while they're fresh. Might be interesting if anyone is considering the course. First, about the classes: EFI 101 is two days in a classroom-like setting (20ish people) consisting mostly of lecture and study with a tuning demo at the end. EFI Advanced is a much smaller group (6 people in this case). Despite being a separate class, IMO it is really the "lab" portion of EFI 101. So much so, that I really can't imagine NOT doing it after EFI 101.

Day 1 of EFI 101:

8:45 AM. I show up at the shop. There's a GT-R and a Z06 parked outside. I figure I've got the right place. I meet the instructor. In the idle time before class, some people are already asking questions about their individual pet projects. It's pretty clear right away that he knows his stuff.

9:00 AM. Class starts. We introduce ourselves. Most people here are NOT total noobs. Several have experience with a particular EMS. A couple are shop owners.

9:15 AM. Man, we're starting with the bare basics here: the four-stroke cycle. I'm slightly concerned, but after 15 minutes of "duh", he bails on the book material and starts discussing real-world stuff. Camshaft duration, valve overlap, compromises for power vs economy, etc. Draws a diagram of cylinder pressure vs volume over time. We discuss various engine configurations and considerations. Good explanations. OK, I'm reasonably intrigued.

10:00 AM. Mathematics. The class becomes math, entirely. Formulas, units, conversions. With accompanying explanations by the instructor, all of which are good. Computing VE, VAF, MAF, BSFC, BSAC, etc. A few "duh" subjects, such as lambda and A/F ratios, but honestly it doesn't hurt to hear it again. We work a few examples, starting with engine specifications and deriving all sorts of theoretical estimations and expected performance. I'm scribbling 6G72 stuff in the margins.

12:00 PM. Lunch. Pizza is provided. That's cool.

1:00 PM. It's now Electronics 101. Ohm's Law. Seriously? Fortunately, we blow through this section.

1:30 PM. We move on to wave forms. Sine waves and square waves. Amplitude, frequency, pulse width, duty cycle. Falling edges, rising edges. Instructor diverges from the book a bit and gives examples on various engine setups, sensor types, and how you might set up an EMS to use them. I'm having Stealth 316 flashbacks.

3:00 PM. Components of an EFI system. MAP, IAT, TPS, etc. Another "duh" subject, until we get to injectors, at which point he launches into a pretty detailed explanation of considerations and selection.

4:30 PM. Today's class is pretty much done. Instructor chats a bit about his experiences and some funny stories.

First day thoughts: Good material. The pacing is a bit weird. We alternate between "duh" and "OMG I CAN'T WRITE FAST ENOUGH", depending on whether we're covering book material or the instructor is dropping golden nuggets, respectively. So far my opinion of the class is that the experience is HIGHLY dependent on the instructor. Fortunately ours is good.

More to come...

[Intropy]

Day 2 of EFI 101:

9:00 AM. The real meat of the course. We spend the first half of the day discussing tuning strategies. About half of this is coming from the book, the other half is the instructor's experience and discussion. Important subjects, like how to know what AFR and timing the engine wants. How to (hopefully) not blow up your car. The only real "a-ha" moments in the course. Lots of stuff I sort-of knew, but didn't really know. If that makes any sense.

12:00 PM. Tuning demo. Instructor familiarizes us with the dyno (Dyno Dynamics in this case). Does some live tuning. Honestly there's not much new to learn here, it's really just to get comfortable with the process and see it in action.

Overall thoughts: The second day just confirms what I suspected - this course really depends on the instructor. We skipped entire chapters of the book. There's actually a chapter on tools and stuff like "how to use a compression tester" - I'm not even kidding. Maybe they always skip this, who knows. All I can say is, had we followed the booklet strictly, I would be disappointed.

Again, the subject matter and pacing is sometimes weird. It's like they're not quite sure if the course is for absolute beginners, or for slightly more dangerous folk. So one moment it's "what's a wideband sensor", and the next we're discussing certain symptoms on the dyno and what problems that might reflect.

Is it worth it? Yeah. I could nitpick about the price (it could maybe stand to be $50 or $100 cheaper), and like most things you COULD learn this from a book, but you're probably not going to. If you're going to take the class, try to extract the most from it by asking questions and really listening to any useful tips the instructor drops.

It's also worthwhile to mention the things you will NOT get in the course. You will NOT:
- Get familiar with any particular solution, and therefore be able to tune a car.
- Have any actual experience using the dyno.

On to EFI Advanced. More to come...

[Tackhammer]

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Good stuff man :)

[Intropy]

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Good stuff man :)

Ha ha, thanks. I didn't expect many replies. OK, here we go, final chapter...

[green-lantern]

Oh shit! I saw this thread before before but didn't realize what or who it was. :lo5l:

Thanks for sharing Justin! Keep it coming

[Intropy]

EFI Advanced:

9:00 AM. We show up and head straight to the dyno. No lecture, no book. Learn how to pull the car on, strap it down, set up the sensors. Basics on how to operate the dyno, change views, etc.

10:00 AM. We learn steady-state tuning. How to target a particular cell, read the dyno, make adjustments, and what to expect. Instructor makes a base map and each person takes turns working on a part of the cruise area, tuning fuel and ignition.

12:00 PM. Pizza. Yum.

1:00 PM. Instructor demonstrates some more nuanced tasks. Startup, idle, overrun, etc. We don't do these ourselves; they're somewhat system-dependent. But the concepts are clear.

2:00 PM. Full-on. How to do WOT runs, interpret the results, and make adjustments. Each person does some runs and makes small adjustments. How to listen to the engine, how to read the plugs. Good stuff. By the end of the session, we have a fully-tuned map.

4:00 PM. Most fun part of the day. Instructor sticks a stock ECU back in the car. It makes more power in the midrange. WTF? We have to figure out why.

5:00 PM. Class is over.

Thoughts: I said it before, I'll say it again. EFI Advanced is the EFI 101 lab. EFI 101 is like a Psychology degree - you're smart and qualified to do absolutely nothing. (No offense to any psychology majors...). After Advanced, I can tune a car start to finish.

Granted, I have a bit of a head start because I'm already pretty darn familiar with a particular solution (AEM). If you're not, you would still need to actually learn how to use your setup. You could even take the EFI course on it.

Is it worth it? Yeah. Again, I could maybe complain about the price, which could perhaps be 10-20% cheaper, but where else are you going to learn this? Make friends at your local dyno and hope they know what they're doing?

So, suggestions:

- EFI 101 -> EFI Advanced is the appropriate progression. There's also an EFI 102 or something. You don't want that one - yet.

- Ask questions. Don't piss everyone off by insisting on talking about your personal project. Ask good, general questions that will enhance everyone's understanding. There's a lot of downtime waiting for the car to cool and such. Don't waste it - you're paying for it.


That's all folks!

[green-lantern]

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Good stuff man :)

They must have seen you in the thread :p

jk :D

[Intropy]

Oh shit! I saw this thread before before but didn't realize what or who it was. :lo5l:

Thanks for sharing Justin! Keep it coming

I'm done! :)

[green-lantern]

I'm done! :)

So when are you back in town and playing with my car? I'd like to pick your brain while it's still fresh. :lo5l:

[Intropy]

I get in late tomorrow. ;) Where do you stand on it?

[Tackhammer]

I don't recommend the roof

[Tackhammer]

They must have seen you in the thread :p

jk :D

yea no shit :lol:

Its agood thing i couldnt care less ;)

[green-lantern]

I get in late tomorrow. ;) Where do you stand on it?


I don't recommend the roof

This! lol

It really just needs some tuning. When I ran it on the dragon it was pig rich on deceleration but seemed to be a bit lean when jumping in the throttle. I might be getting some phantom knock in the low end, I'm not too sure. All and all it's doing pretty good though.

[J. Fast]

Haha, your a new toy. Free tunes for friends, no?

[green-lantern]

Haha, your a new toy. Free tunes for friends, no?

Doesn’t seem like any of us locals are any good at tuning so yeah I’ll probably bug the shit out of Justin :lo5l:

[Intropy]

Ha ha. Yeah I can help out. What's your setup again? Emanage?

All I need is a laptop with the software ready and a way to log. We can get your AFRs pretty close on the street and probably fix your decel fuel. For power I'll need the dyno though.

[green-lantern]

Yeah, emanage blue

I can get my logger going. When do you want to do it? Hell why don't you come by for a beer this evening and we can make sure I got everything you need.


Edit: I guess it might be too late for you this evening so just let me know.

[Tackhammer]

Please wait till next week when big red is on the road and im on my bike in the mountians

[green-lantern]

Please wait till next week when big red is on the road and im on my bike in the mountians

Why? When big red is on the road he won't want to mess with my car what so ever.

[Tackhammer]

everyone wants to mess with your car, its green

[green-lantern]

Yeah but that isn't the messing I'm wanting done.

[Tackhammer]

beggars cant be choosers

[Intropy]

Just got in. Yeah, it's a little late for me, and I'm exhausted. I'm sure we can check it out soon though.

Can you log AFR on the emanage?

[CoreyB]

Sounds like a really cool class.

[green-lantern]

Just got in. Yeah, it's a little late for me, and I'm exhausted. I'm sure we can check it out soon though.

Can you log AFR on the emanage?

I can tell you about it if you answer your phone :p

[Tackhammer]

I can tell you about it if you answer your phone :pgood luck with that :lo5l:

[green-lantern]

good luck with that :lo5l:

I know, really! ha ha

[HilbillyHomeboy]

Thank you for the review; I've always been very curious about these classes.

Jeremy

[Intropy]

I can tell you about it if you answer your phone :p

Yeah I suck at that. The "I" in "Intropy" is for "introvert", lol. If I'm doing the recharge thing you can usually email/text me.

[green-lantern]

Yeah I suck at that. The "I" in "Intropy" is for "introvert", lol. If I'm doing the recharge thing you can usually email/text me.

You going to be charged enough for a beer this evening?

[Intropy]

You going to be charged enough for a beer this evening?

You bet, shall I head that way when I get off work (6ish)?