To those who have done the FWD TT Conversion...

[DJ_X_Factor]

I've been flamed up, down, left, and right by people saying that it is not worth the effort and that I'll never have traction. I've read on this a million times, I've done my research, and I know I could do the swap mechanically. The only thing I haven't done is physically ask my fellow 3S'ers who have actually completed the swap.

So, please, chime in! My engine is getting pretty bogged down, she's on her last legs, and I'm really gearing towards getting a great condition TT engine and getting it put in with some good old blood, sweat, and tears. Please convince me that I'm not crazy for 100% wanting to do this!

[Tool Man]

I would 100% absolutly NEVER do it again. Buy a VR4

[DJ_X_Factor]

I'll tell you what my largest problem with going that route is...

I've dumped tons and tons into my car, I have it customized to the point that I won't get near the money back that I've put in it. Between my suspension, interior, audio/video system, new viper bumper, and the 100 other little things...I really don't have it in me to part with her and have to start all over. I don't know...I've thought about other undertakings like a 3.5L swap, or even going balls-out and dropping a V8 in her...but bang-for-buck and ease of install (comparitively) keep pointing me to the TT swap.

[DrGonzo]

Brent, I have completed the TT conversion on my car. Hit me up sometimes if you need any info. The TT engine is what I am dropping into the Stealth TT frame I got.

[B-Man]

I'd do it again. It was a lot of fun for me. I never really pushed it and ran wastegate on 9b with 10:1 motor. I didn't pay for the parts, I did some work instead so that was the main reason I did it. Traction is tough, but it can be had with an LSD and a converted AWD trans.

[DJ_X_Factor]

Brent, I have completed the TT conversion on my car. Hit me up sometimes if you need any info. The TT engine is what I am dropping into the Stealth TT frame I got.

I've been meaning to have a good discussion with you about this Greg!

[green-lantern]

I'll tell you what my largest problem with going that route is...

I've dumped tons and tons into my car, I have it customized to the point that I won't get near the money back that I've put in it. Between my suspension, interior, audio/video system, new viper bumper, and the 100 other little things...I really don't have it in me to part with her and have to start all over. I don't know...I've thought about other undertakings like a 3.5L swap, or even going balls-out and dropping a V8 in her...but bang-for-buck and ease of install (comparitively) keep pointing me to the TT swap.

Sounds like your car is TT conversion material. If you are attached to it, have it customized the way you want it and you are mechanically inclined then go for it. Do you have a 2nd car?

[Tackhammer]

I would do it again in a heartbeat.
If you enjoy racing from a stop, dont do it, but Its the most fun car you will ever drive once you learn how to use your right foot.

[Maximal]

Traction does suck but with some decent tires and an LSD it's doable. Once you get up to speed you'll hardly notice the FWD shittyness as long as you have a proper suspsension on your car. Best thing I've done to my car, hands down. I was pretty much sold on an AWD swap this winter but I think I may hold off a bit as now that I'm more into tracking/auto-x than drag racing the traction isn't really an issue.

[J-Groove]

I say it is worth it.

Now going bigger turbos, like I did when I went with 13Ts, it is not worth it, traction is a bitch and you cannot tune for the full potential.

But a solid 9B tune, which my FWD TT will be going back to before I sell her, is very much worth it. And can be very reliable when done right.

-John

[green-lantern]

I say it is worth it.

Now going bigger turbos, like I did when I went with 13Ts, it is not worth it, traction is a bitch and you cannot tune for the full potential.

But a solid 9B tune, which my FWD TT will be going back to before I sell her, is very much worth it. And can be very reliable when done right.

-John

Just keep it! :p

[DJ_X_Factor]

Sounds like your car is TT conversion material. If you are attached to it, have it customized the way you want it and you are mechanically inclined then go for it. Do you have a 2nd car?

I'm quite attached to it...and I'm quite mechnically inclined. the swap itself doesn't scare me in the least...I'm just uneasy about all the comments of unreliability. Yes, I have a 2nd car, my Stealth officially became a weekend toy about two months ago when I got my F150.

[DJ_X_Factor]

Traction does suck but with some decent tires and an LSD it's doable. Once you get up to speed you'll hardly notice the FWD shittyness as long as you have a proper suspsension on your car. Best thing I've done to my car, hands down. I was pretty much sold on an AWD swap this winter but I think I may hold off a bit as now that I'm more into tracking/auto-x than drag racing the traction isn't really an issue.

I've got the proper suspension, I have the Tein Flex Adjustable Coilover System on her. ...I need to really update my sig pic because she looks much different nowadays...sits much meaner (3 1/2 inch drop) and has the Venom bumper.

I wouldn't mind doing a little dragging on rare occasion, but this is primarily because I want more power from a roll, so traction at a stand-still isn't so much my concern. The tires I'm running are the Falken Ziex ZE-502 series in a 245/40/18 front and back.

[DJ_X_Factor]

I say it is worth it.

Now going bigger turbos, like I did when I went with 13Ts, it is not worth it, traction is a bitch and you cannot tune for the full potential.

But a solid 9B tune, which my FWD TT will be going back to before I sell her, is very much worth it. And can be very reliable when done right.

-John

I'm not looking for massive power, i know that's not realistic with a 10:1 compression. I'd be very very happy at a max of 325-350HP range after all is said and done...and I think that's a reasonable/realistic goal, right?

[green-lantern]

I'm quite attached to it...and I'm quite mechnically inclined. the swap itself doesn't scare me in the least...I'm just uneasy about all the comments of unreliability. Yes, I have a 2nd car, my Stealth officially became a weekend toy about two months ago when I got my F150.

I would say do it then. It's not really unreliable unless you do the conversion half assed or crank the boost way up. If you are doing a swap it will be more reliable than the 10:1 plus if you have a TT ECU you’ll not need a piggyback.

[Hannibalzero]

If you are sentimentally attached to the car, by all means do it. It really is not that difficult for a decent backyard mechanic. Finding the used parts for a good price is not that difficult if you are patient.

If the car is just a car, just upgrade to a VR4.

[DJ_X_Factor]

If you are sentimentally attached to the car, by all means do it. It really is not that difficult for a decent backyard mechanic. Finding the used parts for a good price is not that difficult if you are patient.

If the car is just a car, just upgrade to a VR4.

Yeah, I am very sentimentally attached to her lol. That's why there's not a TT already in the garage instead, by the time I could afford one I had already fallen for mine. I certainly have the patience to gather the parts, and that was kind of the plan is to just assemble the parts as I find good deals on them. I've got every tool you could/would need to work on these cars, so I'm quite the backyard mechanic to say the least...no other mechanic rarely ever gets their hands on my cars; I usually tend to only trust my own work.

My fiance says the Stealth is my mistress that i go out in the garage and cheat on her with. I spend about equal amounts of time with the car as i do with my soon-to-be wife!

[J-Groove]

Just keep it! :p


I would if I could. Just not enough space. The wife and I have 4 cars right now and only a 2 car garage. Just not worth it. My FWD-TT isn't costing me anything right now really though, she is on storage insurance until I do the de-modding (back to 9Bs with no piggy backs) so that is all of $12/month for insurance. :)

The whole sale of my '95 will be going into my IRA/ paying down my '99 VR-4.


I'm not looking for massive power, i know that's not realistic with a 10:1 compression. I'd be very very happy at a max of 325-350HP range after all is said and done...and I think that's a reasonable/realistic goal, right?

Very reasonable. A FWD-TT is a great car! I daily drove mine for a couple of years. Only issues I had were from some cheap mods. (I went for a budget TT ECU, it leaked and caused issues, went for some budget 9B turbos, they blew oil and I replaced them with 13T turbos.) The big issue that took my car down was when I was in traffice and had to straddle some stuff in the road. It tore up a lot from under my car, that happened right before we closed on our home, so money was gone!

All the horror stories about a FWD-TT being unreliable are from those who didn't do it right, or had some bad luck.

-John

edit: Also, listen to Green-Lantern, the man is a bad ass with converting FWD to TT AWD cars of beauty.

I remember helping him out when he was first doing his TT conversion, now the man is a master! Puts any and all of my help to shame. haha

[11secondFWD]

Do NOT do it. I just bought a vr4 in perfect running order for LESS than I paid just for my JDM TT engine. And you will never have traction, have to do all the work. It is fun to drag if you have 26x10 slicks but sucks for a fast street car. Never getting traction and having power on the street is a downer. I did it for 4 years.

[green-lantern]

Yeah, I am very sentimentally attached to her lol. That's why there's not a TT already in the garage instead, by the time I could afford one I had already fallen for mine. I certainly have the patience to gather the parts, and that was kind of the plan is to just assemble the parts as I find good deals on them. I've got every tool you could/would need to work on these cars, so I'm quite the backyard mechanic to say the least...no other mechanic rarely ever gets their hands on my cars; I usually tend to only trust my own work.

My fiance says the Stealth is my mistress that i go out in the garage and cheat on her with. I spend about equal amounts of time with the car as i do with my soon-to-be wife!
I say do it.

Do NOT do it. I just bought a vr4 in perfect running order for LESS than I paid just for my JDM TT engine. And you will never have traction, have to do all the work. It is fun to drag if you have 26x10 slicks but sucks for a fast street car. Never getting traction and having power on the street is a downer. I did it for 4 years.

With all due respect because you deserve it I think you wanted something different out of your car than the OP does.

[MK_94_3000GT]

I'd do it again, but I went AWD too. Fun project took me forever cuz I kept getting sidetracked. I wouldn't mind TT'ing another car, but will prob stick with VR4s from now on.

[Valhallaz]

Mine's a swap, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It's been a daily driver for over two years, and reliability hasn't been an issue even with light mods. I don't really care about running from a dig, just wanted a strong daily driver/tourer.
I've recently had the chance to drive a couple VR4's with similar mods, and compared to the fwd tt, they just felt heavy and a bit sluggish. I'll admit I've considered an AWD conversion, but I just can't justify the extra weight for the way I drive. And from a fast roll, it's plenty quick.
Use quality parts and don't cut corners, and it'll be a car you'll love.

[DJ_X_Factor]

Mine's a swap, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It's been a daily driver for over two years, and reliability hasn't been an issue even with light mods. I don't really care about running from a dig, just wanted a strong daily driver/tourer.
I've recently had the chance to drive a couple VR4's with similar mods, and compared to the fwd tt, they just felt heavy and a bit sluggish. I'll admit I've considered an AWD conversion, but I just can't justify the extra weight for the way I drive. And from a fast roll, it's plenty quick.
Use quality parts and don't cut corners, and it'll be a car you'll love.

I'm the same, I have gone to the track a whopping one time in my entire life. I want the better run from a roll and that instant throttle response when I need it. Not so much trying to sit head to head with someone and go on green. My street racing days are far over, now I just want that "happy place" in my powerband that FI offers. I planned on upgrading with quality parts as I went as well, so I'm glad to see my thinking is correct!

[11secondFWD]

With all due respect because you deserve it I think you wanted something different out of your car than the OP does.

Well I kinda see what you are saying but what is the main purpose of the TT swap? He obviously wants more power than the stock NA FWD can offer. So in all reality he is doing this swap to make much more power which is going to turn into many traction problems on the street.

I understand that he may not be looking to drag race or street race from a dig but he is still going to want to mess around and floor it around on the street. And without much traction it sucks. I never got traction til 3rd and then in high rpms it still spun in third. So, its not my idea of the best fast street car.

And with all the hassle, and parts and extras just to have a lesser car in every way, I think its dumb. I absolutely loved my car, it was my life and my pride and joy but man it really is better just to buy a vr4.

[DJ_X_Factor]

Well I kinda see what you are saying but what is the main purpose of the TT swap? He obviously wants more power than the stock NA FWD can offer. So in all reality he is doing this swap to make much more power which is going to turn into many traction problems on the street.

I understand that he may not be looking to drag race or street race from a dig but he is still going to want to mess around and floor it around on the street. And without much traction it sucks. I never got traction til 3rd and then in high rpms it still spun in third. So, its not my idea of the best fast street car.

And with all the hassle, and parts and extras just to have a lesser car in every way, I think its dumb. I absolutely loved my car, it was my life and my pride and joy but man it really is better just to buy a vr4.

He's 27 and kinda-sorta knows how to drive a vehicle with some power. If you can tell me where to buy a well-running and cosmetically solid VR4 with all the mods I've done to my Stealth for a purchase price of $1000-$1500 and I'm on it, otherwise I'm pretty sure I am going to take that same $1500 and invest a little more into my already large investment. Anyone who knows these cars knows how much my Tein Suspension costs alone, not to mention the other thousands I've put into my other upgrades (performance and otherwise.)

This comment is leaning towards the flaming I've gotten in the past (so pardon the semi-stern response), but there's been enough positive comments within this thread to convince me that my goals are not unrealistic. I'm not aiming for an 11-second FWD (though yours is quite impressive), that's not realistic to me for my wants. I'm not going to be romping on the throttle at every stoplight, nor fly down the streets of Myrtle Beach like a banshee. I *might* have a little fun like that on rare occasion; but my ultimate goal is to be rocking a 300+HP Stealth that turns heads (which it already does), wins trophies (which i already have), and shuts mouths (when the power is needed). Pardon the rant, but I just had to get that out of me!

[USDM-GTO]

I did the conversion on my last FWD. Would I do it again? Yeah, if I could come across another deal like the first. $1100 for everything from a VR4 with blown motor. If you can get the parts needed at a good price to you then do it. If it looks like it might end up costing $4000+ then I would hunt for a VR4. But basically since you want to keep what you got now and make it faster, thats all up to you, not anyone else. People will praise and people will hate. Its all part of the game.

Another option you did mention, which is what I am going to do is the 3.5L swap. But that doesnt mean it wont come with the occasional hater. The typical response has been, "Just buy the stroker kit." I would if it didnt cost $5000 just for the kit. So I will swap in the 3.5L with BPU and possibly run a small shot of nitrous. I have seen many posts about the power increase for something that cost about $1200, the average price I have found so far.

Point being, It's your car man. Do what ever you want to it. You work hard for your money to spend how you choose to. Good luck

[mb3000]

He's 27 and kinda-sorta knows how to drive a vehicle with some power. If you can tell me where to buy a well-running and cosmetically solid VR4 with all the mods I've done to my Stealth for a purchase price of $1000-$1500 and I'm on it, otherwise I'm pretty sure I am going to take that same $1500 and invest a little more into my already large investment. Anyone who knows these cars knows how much my Tein Suspension costs alone, not to mention the other thousands I've put into my other upgrades (performance and otherwise.)

This comment is leaning towards the flaming I've gotten in the past (so pardon the semi-stern response), but there's been enough positive comments within this thread to convince me that my goals are not unrealistic. I'm not aiming for an 11-second FWD (though yours is quite impressive), that's not realistic to me for my wants. I'm not going to be romping on the throttle at every stoplight, nor fly down the streets of Myrtle Beach like a banshee. I *might* have a little fun like that on rare occasion; but my ultimate goal is to be rocking a 300+HP Stealth that turns heads (which it already does), wins trophies (which i already have), and shuts mouths (when the power is needed). Pardon the rant, but I just had to get that out of me!

^That's what SC31 is there for:cool:
I say go for it, I always wanted to do it but couldn't justify it for my own personal reasons, but I would love for a fwdtt to be running around town:D

[11secondFWD]

He's 27 and kinda-sorta knows how to drive a vehicle with some power. If you can tell me where to buy a well-running and cosmetically solid VR4 with all the mods I've done to my Stealth for a purchase price of $1000-$1500 and I'm on it, otherwise I'm pretty sure I am going to take that same $1500 and invest a little more into my already large investment. Anyone who knows these cars knows how much my Tein Suspension costs alone, not to mention the other thousands I've put into my other upgrades (performance and otherwise.)

This comment is leaning towards the flaming I've gotten in the past (so pardon the semi-stern response), but there's been enough positive comments within this thread to convince me that my goals are not unrealistic. I'm not aiming for an 11-second FWD (though yours is quite impressive), that's not realistic to me for my wants. I'm not going to be romping on the throttle at every stoplight, nor fly down the streets of Myrtle Beach like a banshee. I *might* have a little fun like that on rare occasion; but my ultimate goal is to be rocking a 300+HP Stealth that turns heads (which it already does), wins trophies (which i already have), and shuts mouths (when the power is needed). Pardon the rant, but I just had to get that out of me!

That's fine with me. I am just letting you know from experience. Will it be fun, yes, will it ever be as good as having a vr4, no. It sounds to me like you already made your mind up before asking the question. I feel you only wanted people to verify what you already had your heart set on. Well, I don't mean you can get a vr4 for 1500, but if you sold the current car plus the 1500 I am sure you could get a vr4. And let me know if you only end up spending 1500 for everything. It seems doubtful for me that to get it running awesome you will only spend 1500. There is alot of other complications and extra parts. I don't know your exact plans or what you have but for me there was a lot of other expenses, even if small, that add up. I can go into to detail if you want but to get your car exactly like a vr4 or with some extra little mods and running perfect 1500 seems to good to be true.

And bro I am not trying to flame you because most of the people that have "flamed" you do not know what they are talking about. I am just giving my straight up advice. I put 35k into my fwdtt (including 5k) purchase price. I know how pricey it gets to run at top condition. And you will never be happy with no traction.

Story: An A-hole tried passing me in his escalade a several months back. I was going 35 in 35. I seen him about to pull around to my left I down shifted from 3rd to 2nd and punched it. I just roasted tires even with pedaling it and he passed me up with ease. So have fun getting passed by slow cars on the streets due to no traction. And when you want to show people some power as you put it, have fun being beat by cars much slower than you. If you want to win, I wouldnt race unless going over 65mph.

Lastly man, if you want to do it then, do it. But you posted it and wanted to know truth and I told you. I know all about the fwd setup and with a TON of other fwd tt's I am 1 of 3 to be in the 11's and the only one ever faster than me was chriss hill ipo in his t2.

Will you be happy, yes, because you are going from a slow fwd pile to a TT, which has a lot of power. Its an awesome upgrade from what it starts off as, but a vr4 is always going to be best and your fwdtt will never be a vr4 in the end. AWD FTW!

[Valhallaz]

I'll be the 1st to admit that putting power down from a dig isn't gonna happen.
That being said, I don't accidently lose traction, nor has it really been an issue in going on 3 years as a dd. I'm well aware of it's limitations traction wise, and generally live within them.
And from a fast roll (I'm on cape cod, roads where you can get next to anything other than on the interstate are rare) there are plenty of cars that can take me, but nothing slow is likely to. Nor is a similarly modded VR4, for that matter.
Both have strengths and weaknesses. You just have to decide what you want out of it.

[Jeremy C]

honestly, if I could go back I would probably have left my car alone. I love my car dearly, but it's been sitting now for nearly 2 years barely getting more than a spin around the block to keep things from seizing. Anyone that read my posts back at the old sight know just how many issues I had with the transmissions in my car, and beyond the economic impact it had, I now fear getting hard on my car. Anytime I get it more than 1/2 throttle I'm waiting to hear something break again.

I miss having a car that I could get into and just drive without worry. I guess you could say I've grown a little lazy having a daily driver that just works.

Now if I can finally get around to dropping an AWD trans into the car (maybe with a rear end still attached) I might change my mind. as it is, the cool factor of the FWD has worn off after 6 years of having it.

[11secondFWD]

Yea, I loved my AWD tranny. It is a must for a fwd tt. Awesome gearing and holds any power.

Thats why I said, there are many other costs, like if doing fwdtt you should do awd tranny or you will be breaking the fwd soon and paying money in the long run.

[dfoster101]

imho id say if your doing the tt conversion i would spring for the awd conversion as well.. never know when that awd might save you.. not to mention your diving style might get a lil more spirited after you get a taste of the hundred extra hp,,

[TheRedStealth]

do it brent!

[98slept]

Do what you want really man. I own a 98fwdtt and vr4. Traction isnt as bad if you stiffen up the rear(squats too much). With 5-6psi 10:1 with a NON gutted precat cat you

should see 280-315whp depending on engine age. I can actually beat my friends 14psi bpu vr4 from second gear roll at 25mph @5psi.lol. People who do the conversion right away go for big power and end up getting a GUTTED precat and straight pipping which yields gobs of power but actually makes you useless in 1st and 2nd, and a bit of 3rd. Yea i like my vr4 and is what i always wanted when i first got into the 3s scene but the fwdtt always get

compliments just because their aint many fwdtt that actually are running in my state. Its actually rare over here in colorado. If you want a long lasting fwdtt 10:1 i recommend you stay at wastegate 5-7psi with a NON gutted cat. With a fwdtt 8:1 no more than 14psi. More boost=more power but = less traction & more heat
FYI the fwdtt is my daily driver since 07-08 and the vr4 is my project car. Stock its too slow compared to the fwdtt. Damm weight. lol

[DJ_X_Factor]

Do what you want really man. I own a 98fwdtt and vr4. Traction isnt as bad if you stiffen up the rear(squats too much). With 5-6psi 10:1 with a NON gutted precat cat you

should see 280-315whp depending on engine age. I can actually beat my friends 14psi bpu vr4 from second gear roll at 25mph @5psi.lol. People who do the conversion right away go for big power and end up getting a GUTTED precat and straight pipping which yields gobs of power but actually makes you useless in 1st and 2nd, and a bit of 3rd. Yea i like my vr4 and is what i always wanted when i first got into the 3s scene but the fwdtt always get

compliments just because their aint many fwdtt that actually are running in my state. Its actually rare over here in colorado. If you want a long lasting fwdtt 10:1 i recommend you stay at wastegate 5-7psi with a NON gutted cat. With a fwdtt 8:1 no more than 14psi. More boost=more power but = less traction & more heat
FYI the fwdtt is my daily driver since 07-08 and the vr4 is my project car. Stock its too slow compared to the fwdtt. Damm weight. lol

My plan is to make a solid stock-level TT power-rating, maybe slightly over. I'm not planning on trying to make some monster HP numbers; that's what I've been stressing. Everyone is talking about wheelspin and everything breaking from the power. My whole point has been to find out if it is worth the swap if I am going with stock TT HP numbers with good replacement components and taking my time doing the swap the correct way and not cutting corners. Like I said previously, this car is NOT my DD anymore, so I have the luxury of taking my time to get the job done right.

In general thinking, I basically have my mind made-up that i want to go forward with a swap...but the more real-world experiences I hear about it, the more educated my decision making can be. It also really helps towards planning out HOW I want to do the swap, and what has worked for some and not worked for others regarding upgrades and methods. I'm pretty sure I have a great idea of the exact direction I want to proceed in, and I certainly appreciate everyone's input on this, criticism and support equally.

[green-lantern]

Go for it bro! you will like it.

[n2nsanity]

Funny, somehow I missed this thread. You wussed out and went the 3.5 n/a route. But that's ok because after you finish this, you still have the option to man up and do the tt conversion :p

[Bloodlust182]

I'm doing the swap the other way around, I converted my car to AWD first (it is still N/a haha) but I must say AWD is where it is at. The car feels like it hugs the corners rather than the feeling like the rear end is going to slip out with the FWD and to my surprise it is not as slow as I expected it to be haha. I cant even get it to spin the tires unless it is wet, but even then it still goes where I want it to. Also, the gearing of the AWD trans makes 3rd gear an odd place for an N/a engine. The back roads here are 30mph speed limits and getting stuck behind a minivan at those speeds makes 3rd gear bog but 2nd feels like I'm waayy past the shift point to be cruising over small hills. I would say do the AWD first so you don't waste time spinning tires when people try to pass you :D.

I'm in the same boat as you for being attached to my car, all the little things I've done to it over the last 5 years have made me make the decision that I will never sell my car.