Calling all owners who have put in large stereo's in their 3S.

[2fnloud]

Looks like I am not going too go as massive as I thought, and the electrical limits of the 3s platform is unknown to me. So I ask:

With the following done:

Bigtyla's ground kit in 1/0GA
1/0GA from alternator power to battery "+"
1/0GA from front to back

Will the stock alternator support 2,000 Watts RMS?

Anyone who suggests needing / using caps will promptly be ignored in this thread

[j2k4]

How's about some caps?









Sorry - you asked for that.

[2fnloud]

How's about some caps?









Sorry - you asked for that.

Yes I know, and I knew it was going to happen....I even laughed.

[tabasco122]

i would say no.

2000w/12v=166A
2000w/12v=142A

I would say that you would need at least a 200amp alternator for a system that large. If you want it 100% reliable, you already have the big 3 (alt to battery, engine to chassis, battery to chassis), i would also get a deep cycle battery and wire it in along with your current battery.

I mean you can do it with less, but i wouldnt. Some people run 1500w systems off of an 80A alt and it works. To do it right, get a high output alt.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

Ignore above...

Music will run at full volume 20% of your amps power. Music is not a sine wave, its a complex wave, it is dynamic so is full of spikes. Don't think you will be anywhere near your alternators limits with that continuous. Music spikes above your alts rating will be taken care of by the battery so dont get a Deep cycle unless you like running your stereo for extended time and you run your bat below 10 volts alot. Deep cycle bats are terribly slow at discharge, so use the best biggest lead acid you can fit or better yet dual batt.

[2fnloud]

Ignore above...

Music will run at full volume 20% of your amps power. Music is not a sine wave, its a complex wave, it is dynamic so is full of spikes. Don't think you will be anywhere near your alternators limits with that continuous. Music spikes above your alts rating will be taken care of by the battery so dont get a Deep cycle unless you like running your stereo for extended time and you run your bat below 10 volts alot. Deep cycle bats are terribly slow at discharge, so use the best biggest lead acid you can fit or better yet dual batt.

I remember reading about how you can take and replace the stock fuse with one about a third of the size and you still won't pop it.

I also talked to a good friend that runs a R/F DB4000 or what ever that monster is with factory alt in his 08 civic SI and two Vtank 2000 batteries. He said his lights barely dim at night and that is with heavy bass notes

I am going to look into BATCAP 800's for the rear, that way I can keep them hidden in the amp rack that I am building. I was going to build my system out and if I have issues, I will just get a mechman 220 amp H/O alternator. But it sounds like I will not need it.

I was really hoping that you would offer some advise to this, thanks.

[sublime_whatigo]

Years ago I had 1600w or so in my 97 NA. And that alternator wasn't as big as a TT's. The only issues I had were the normal interior lights dimming, I always wondered if that was ground related or power, wouldn't hurt to run an extra 12 or 10 gauge from the thin console area to the chassis.

[2fnloud]

I planned on running an 10GA Power & Ground when I install my system so I know that it I have issues it will be because I need a bigger alternator. But after talking to a friend that is MECP certified and running a 2000W RMS amp in an 08 civic SI with stock alt and two additional batteries, and other posts here I should be fine.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

DC runs negitive to positive. So it you dont have a choke at the grounding point eg wire size or termination (dump fuses for C/Breakers) you will be fine. I run 0 gauge in my hilux (everywhere) with a 18" getting 2500wrms and even with sine wave bass drops of 20hz I'm only just dimming. But I know that I'm at my batteries limit of discharge. But with music its perfectly fine at full volume. Always do biggest battery first, thickest earths you can to the chassis (how can a wire be thicker than your chassis? your chassis is the thickest wire in your car). A second battery will still be cheaper than replacing your alt and give you better results.

P.S a Batcap is a awesome choice but exspensive (massively low ESR and that equals an amazingly quick response to peak demands).

[2fnloud]

Sounds like I am going to put the biggest Batcap that properly fits under the hood and two Batcap 800's in the rear (the 800 can be laid it's side, 3" thick).

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

Wow overkill but I love you... hahahahahaha.

[2fnloud]

Yeah, what I would like to do is have my batteries be in the rear and no battery under the hood. I will contact Ray @ Batcap and see what he recommends.

[2fnloud]

Wow overkill but I love you... hahahahahaha.


No homo right?

LOL I spoke with Ray at Batcap, he recommended two batcap 2000's....they are ordered and on the way.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

Sweet. Was joking about the gay love lol. They are great bats but over the top pricing... but hey if you want good you pay good.

[IPD]

i think the 220 mechman is a teriffic idea. stereo's aren't the only thing that can sap power. running a massive fuel system can also be an electrical hog. overall, it's a great upgrade for more than just audo reasons.

[J_Parker]

Hey, do you remember when you wanted me to make some sub pods for 10's in the back seat side panels, well, when my Soarer is done... I'll be working on them and the bumper in unison, I will make a thread.

[2fnloud]

Hey, do you remember when you wanted me to make some sub pods for 10's in the back seat side panels, well, when my Soarer is done... I'll be working on them and the bumper in unison, I will make a thread.

I think you has me confused with another member, I don't recall me wanting you to do that. Where you making them for yourself? Because I never planned on installing anything like that in my car.

[J_Parker]

I think you has me confused with another member, I don't recall me wanting you to do that. Where you making them for yourself? Because I never planned on installing anything like that in my car.

Sorry man, IPD wanted me to. Perhaps I should have elaborated a little more.

[IPD]

yeah...that was me. i've always wondered if it would be possible--and i think it would be. 8" fits with just a small amount of modding--so 10" should be able to fit with some spacers & a new set of interior panels.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

i think the 220 mechman is a teriffic idea. stereo's aren't the only thing that can sap power. running a massive fuel system can also be an electrical hog. overall, it's a great upgrade for more than just audo reasons.

Just so people know. Cause many don't. If you are drawing more current continuously than your alt can supply then your battery will go flat. If you sub amp is pulling peak current draws bigger than your Alt supplies then the battery supplies all the extra current. If you are pulling more current with peaks than your battery can supply you should upgrade your battery to handle the demand. If your electrical system is drawing continuously up to 80% of your Alts supply then you will need to look at replacing your Alt. A minimum 20% is needed to recharge the battery. And lets be honest here, whos pulling 88+ amps or more continuously. Very few I bet.

[IPD]

i've never actually calculated it. then again, everything else on my build is massive overkill...so i figured....why not?

[mk_]

High output alt is never a bad idea, IMO. I only blew up one stock alt. I forget exactly what I was running back then.. might have been two 15s on 1200wrms and an amp for the mids and highs, but the stock alt couldn't keep up, went thru several batteries and then the alt finally failed(took a while to happen but eventually did). HO Alternator was the best purchase I made for my SOHC when I had it.

Hope everything works out for you.

[2fnloud]

High output alt is never a bad idea, IMO. I only blew up one stock alt. I forget exactly what I was running back then.. might have been two 15s on 1200wrms and an amp for the mids and highs, but the stock alt couldn't keep up, went thru several batteries and then the alt finally failed(took a while to happen but eventually did). HO Alternator was the best purchase I made for my SOHC when I had it.

Hope everything works out for you.

Thank you,

I am drawing out a schematic right now for my stereo, and battery relocation. I find it easier to get a complete list for everything this way.

I have been reading the battery relocation process on Stealth316, I am confused as to why he ran a ground from the rear just to tie it to the chassis, that could of been done in the rear.

I like the fact that you can indeed fit two runs and hide it. I like it because I will be running two runs of 1/0GA to feed the two Batcap 2000's that will be in the rear, this way if I do need to buy a H/O alternator I have the proper GA to support the amperage for that length of wire.

Also if I remember correctly, (dangerous phrase I know) The alternator on the SOHC is 90 AMP....the alternator on the TT / VR4 is 110 AMP.

BTW what brand H/O alternator did you use?

[mk_]

You are correct on the amperage difference, SOHC was 90 amp and certainly could have factored into its eventual death. I used a 200 amp Excessive Amperage alt in my install.

[2fnloud]

I talked with Nate about my Saturn, He turned me to Ray @ Batcap. I told him I already had a 180A alt in my Saturn, He replied "Then talk to Ray at Batcap, see what he recommends with what you already have."

So if I need to step up to a H/O alt Net will be the first person I get a quote from.

[2fnloud]

Well here is the schematic:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa177/2fnloud/1994%20Dodge%20Stealth/Audio%20%20Video/Wiring/SCHEMATIC-Model.jpg

Everything in red is what I have in my possession. All the numbers are part numbers for KnuKonceptz products.

[GTOJOE]

Hey, do you remember when you wanted me to make some sub pods for 10's in the back seat side panels, well, when my Soarer is done... I'll be working on them and the bumper in unison, I will make a thread.

Not 10's but still...

GTOPerformance.co.nz • Login (http://www.gtoperformance.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1439&start=120)

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/brownbox101/20110212_002.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/brownbox101/20110212_003.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/brownbox101/20110213_005.jpg

[IPD]

that's great and all...but i'm talking about the actual interior panel being modified; not just the speaker mount. :)

[J_Parker]

I wonder how that would sound/workout, but I think for a more OEM and badass look, I'd like to do the whole panel. I'm into seeing my subs go crazy on a heavy bass line lol, That's not your car is it Joe?

[IPD]

no...i think joe's is black. i'd say it was golferman's...but i can't access those forums to be sure.

[GTOJOE]

No not my car it's a guy called " Box" from New Zealand. My car is red :p \/ \/ \/

[MR2]

your car is red.....ish :p

[GTOJOE]

your car is red.....ish :p

My car IS red... just not when taken on my phone :p

[MR2]

ahh that's the problem! Damn red cars being hard for iphones to shoot...(recent apple thing)

[GTOJOE]

Actually it was taken on a 2 year old Samsung Omnia [Windows Phone]. I now have the Samsung Galaxy S though. But your right, Any time it took a pic of my car it came out pink.

[J_Parker]

Same here, I hate my iPhone's camera. Sadly that's all I'm stuck with right now.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

GTOJOE I think your phones are telling you something here Joseph Knight :P

[GTOJOE]

GTOJOE I think your phones are telling you something here Joseph Knight :P

Phone!!! not phones...... Now I have to take a photo with my new phone to prove this wrong.... :sad:

Anyway speaking of large stereos. This is Anne's car from the gto performance forum.

http://www.gtoperformance.co.nz/forum/download/file.php?id=466

http://www.gtoperformance.co.nz/forum/download/file.php?id=465

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

Its pink till I see differently lol.

[J_Parker]

GTOJOE is now... PINKY! Haha, jk Joe, we still like you, even though your car is pink

[GTOJOE]

I think I might install these :lol:

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/228689_10150312661384148_691634147_9614904_7597255 _s.jpg


:barfaway:

[Spyder]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/229951_439128102775899_1101188701_n.jpg

[Streamln1]

With class D amplifiers now being the norm for subs, ~ 2k watts is not out of the question without putting excessive strain on the charging system. IMO anything over 1k watts is overkill anyways (I mean a true 1k watts not an overinflated if lightning strikes it type of amp) unless you are trying to build a purpose built SPL system, which is silly in a sports car. Upgrade the alternator charging cable and the grounds for good measure. The only point where current draw is too much is when your alt cannot keep up with the charging demand of the system consistently, so keep in mind when you add batterys, or batt caps, it can also put more strain on the alternator.

[2fnloud]

With class D amplifiers now being the norm for subs, ~ 2k watts is not out of the question without putting excessive strain on the charging system. IMO anything over 1k watts is overkill anyways (I mean a true 1k watts not an overinflated if lightning strikes it type of amp) unless you are trying to build a purpose built SPL system, which is silly in a sports car. Upgrade the alternator charging cable and the grounds for good measure. The only point where current draw is too much is when your alt cannot keep up with the charging demand of the system consistently, so keep in mind when you add batterys, or batt caps, it can also put more strain on the alternator.

You can not change physics, W=V*A does not matter what type of amplifier you have. And in you opinion (we all know the old saying about those) that 1K watts is too much. All depends on the individual. Even a 1K watt amp will most likely only be pushing a 1/3 of that wattage while playing music. Also take into consideration of the impedance rise of the speaker as it reproduces a certain frequencies, amps rate their wattage at 4Ohm (1Ohm for most bass/digital amplifiers) so if that speaker impedance rises the wattage output drops, unless your amplifier outputs the same wattage regardless of the Ohm load.

I will have 1.2K watts available for my four 8's in my Stealth and will balance out with the front, center and rear stages of the whole system. I at NG this year even with the 250-300LBS in the hatch my performance was respectable in all events.

For an audiophile or bass head, it is all about balance when putting a system into a sports car. My subs for example took me a few years to find, but they weigh 4.8LBS each with an Xmaz of 12mm and a free air Fq of 30Hz.

[Streamln1]

Thats not true, try getting 1000 watts out of a class A/B amp and check your current draw (Think old school Orion BEAST) you are leaving efficiency out of the equation. 1000 watts on a class A/B amp would draw up to 150a or more vs approx 80a on a class D. W=V*A only if the amp is 100% efficient. Obviously you are not going to try to run 4000watts of even class D on a stock alternator and a couple batterys, this day in age running 1000 watts to subs and 3-400 to mids and highs is no big deal on a stock alt unless its an incredibly weak one to start with. And obviously you are not going to be running 'peak' wattage for more than a fraction of a second even with the system cranked to nearly full volume.

Much of ratings of course is just marketing, there is no real set standard for rating amps, it varys by manufacturers. I laugh when I see an amp rated at 1000rms and it has 40 amps worth of fuse. What are they rating that at? 24volts? LOL

[2fnloud]

Thats not true, try getting 1000 watts out of a class A/B amp and check your current draw (Think old school Orion BEAST) you are leaving efficiency out of the equation. 1000 watts on a class A/B amp would draw up to 300amps vs approx 80a on a class D. W=V*A only if the amp is 100% efficient. Obviously you are not going to try to run 4000watts of even class D on a stock alternator and a couple batterys, this day in age running 1000 watts to subs and 3-400 to mids and highs is no big deal on a stock alt unless its an incredibly weak one to start with. And obviously you are not going to be running 'peak' wattage for more than a fraction of a second even with the system cranked to nearly full volume.

Much of ratings of course is just marketing, there is no real set standard for rating amps, it varys by manufacturers. I laugh when I see an amp rated at 1000rms and it has 40 amps worth of fuse. What are they rating that at? 24volts? LOL

THAT's not true, Yes that is assuming 100% efficiency, Ohm's law doesn't change. 1000w needs 69.44A assuming 14.4V AND 100% efficiency.

Lets assume that old school A/B amplifiers are 50% efficient. So in order to get 1000W, you would actually need 2000W. 2000W=14.4V*A..... A=138Amps

Now lets assume that a digital amp is 75% efficient. So in order to get 1000W, you would actually need 1750W. 1750W=14.4V*A.... A=121Amps

Say what you want. It is the efficiency that is dropping the amperage needs you CAN NOT change the laws of physics.

Also in 2006 the CEA standard was released to create a level playing field for rating amplifiers, just not every amplifier manufacturer is meeting the standard.

[Streamln1]

Thank you for validating my argument, you said 'it doesn't matter what amplifier' you run. Saying it takes 2000watts to produce 1000 isn't really the right way to explain it. You just have to factor in the efficiency in the formula. Obviously you do not purchase a 2000watt amp to get 1000. Brand X 1000 watt amp may need x amps to get that 1000 watt rating vs brand b needs more or less. The more effiecient the amp, the more watts you can produce on a given charging system, and thats what your amp actually produces in A/C voltage to the speakers / subs. End of discussion. Not trying to be cocky, I do and have worked in the industry for more than 17 years, and owning a car audio shop, I should know. I know I said 300 initially, but that was just making a point, it wasn't an actual calculation. AB amps are usually around 60-70 percent, d amps can be as much as 90-95.

And it really did not level the playing field that much, even ones that use the CEA standard have a big degree of variance. Since all MFG's went to china, quality control went to shit. Theres a few brands I know and trust, outside of that its just a crap shoot. All that being said, on a stock alternator I would estimate around 1500 RMS would be doable without major upgrades other than beefing up the charging cable and grounds, and a solid batt. Obviously you are not going to be drawing the max amps, or even close. I never run anything more than a 2nd battery on most customers systems, and even at that its overkill in many of the cases.

[Streamln1]

Heres another interesting tidbit of misinformation thats out there, distortion does not blow speakers, power does. When an amp clips, its trying to produce power that is not designed to produce, aka a square wave. Power is the area under the curve in a sine wave, when an amp clips, this curve becomes cut off at the top and the area becomes much greater, therefore your speakers are taking power way beyond their limits. Thats why tuning a system within its limits is so important and not trying to push and underpowered amp too hard. So many people just max out their gains and wonder why they blow speakers left and right.

[2fnloud]

I never said that it took a 2000W amp to get 1000W, I think we are having a failure to communicate that is for sure. But the jargen we use when an amp clips has been coined "distortion", because the amp was pushed into a square wave. I agree you could have a recording of a guitar shredding a solo in "distortion" as long as the amp is not clip it will not blow the speaker.

[2fnloud]

I think that we laymens the term to "distortion" because the nasty sound you get when the amplifier clips.

[Streamln1]

I was actually suprized when they showed me what happens on a clipping amp, I think it was either RF or Orion that was doing a training on it years ago. They showed the mathmatical formula and this amp was producing nearly triple is max rated output of pure square wave, right there on a scope. Cool stuff. Clipping is fine as long as its within the speakers ability to handle it.

[spaceace60]

im pretty sure im in the top 2% of largest 3s systems lol! and imo caps are WAY over rated a highend battery will do 10 times more for your upgrade optimas look cool and are way over rated/over priced as well! a company called Remy 800)455-7400((i believe same as deka?)look up online have a model(9134m)its a close out now at $90 that match most $300 or more batts!!(dbl check for fit though)im lookin to get one myself! also if u can afford get a Mechman alt 220a L series(ours are pretty stout at 110a but these are the most bang for your audio buck!)as im running 5 amps in my arsenol! any other questions just give me a call Jim(814)493-3173 been doin car audio for 25yrs!

[SUTHNR]

Wow, that last post was hard to digest...

To the OP, have any pictures been floated around of you build? In all the banter about watts and amps, I think I missed what you ultimately went with :)

EricB

[2fnloud]

:lol:

Eric here is my list of goodies:

Pioneer AVH-P6000DVD (H/U)
Pioneer AVG-VDP1 (cool vehicle performance display)
Pioneer DEQ-P8000 (5.1 processor, Sub X-over & T/A)
Pioneer CD-BTB200 (bluetooth interface)
Pioneer XDV-P9 (DVD Changer) if it is compatible
Pioneer CDX-680 (CD Changer)
Pioneer iPod chord
Orion HCCA-D2400 (1200 x1 at 1 Ohm, subs)
Orion HP-4800 (100x4 at 4 Ohms, bridged for fronts)
Orion HP-4800 (100x4 at 4 Ohms, center and rear)
Orion MAXBASS (To see if I can get the center to sound lower with "psychoacoustics")
AudioControl DQS (30 band digital +2 band Para. E/Q)
AudioControl DDC (remote display face for DQS)
Phoenix Gold Bass C.U.B.E. (sub-sonic filter)
Tang Band W8-1363SB 8" subwoofer (sub x4)
Eclipse SC8365 3-way component speakers (Front)
Eclipse SP6900 6x9 2-way speakers (Rear)
Tang Band W23-1287SI 2"x3" speakers (center x2)

Build log here:
Steve's 5.1 mobile theater "Stealth" install. (http://www.3sgto.org/audio-video-systems/2575-2fnoulds-build-log.html)

[spaceace60]

Hey thats funny i got the exact setup(Kickers) for my rear fills except mine are the Cvt 2ohm(model) this months audio car winner(the orange sl) may look better but im safe to say mine sounds better!(its nice for a system to look good but how does it sound?)
not to brag but my Vr4 is completely sound proofed,The list of Equipment is an Alpine W910 Hu,Alpine 701 w701 rux controller(processor,x-over,Eq,time alighnment,bla bla!)on optical cables all Phoenix gold M100,M50,M44,M25 amps! (except my huge Us amp on 2x12 Alpine type X subs!) Mechman 240a alt(big3 grounding done),heavy duty Battery upfront,agm batt in rear,3x2.5 caps(soon removing as caps are a waste of time & money) pioneer stage4 2and5/8" mids(don't laugh at these pioneers $450 a pr little guys.)as they fit perfect in stock dash spots and believe it or not are my favorite pieces in the whole system! Also keep in mind these are mids(built like tanks!) not tweeters! and they seriously F'n rock!(loud and clear!) I have a pr of $750 6.5" SR6500 Polks in my doors and those little mids keep right up with my big $ Polks! and ad soooo much to the front sound staging!(after hearing them i couldn't be w/o them and of course got the Kicker Cvt 6.5 mini subs(set at 63hz-300hz low/mid) in rear and their not doin squat? (biggest let down of my whole system! Ya i'm not sure if it's a cancellation(big subs clashing w/them?) issue or what had them completely sealed incl the port tube(stock 6x9 enclosures) closed off ect but the kickers are suppose to be like 150 rms/300pk but no volume at all?(i've heard louder ipods?) Btw how are your Kickers doin in your setup?? Hey 2F'N loud how r you commin along on your stereo install?(Jim aka spaceace60 in Pa.!) Btw I am always buying horse trading audio gear infact my 2x12 sub box is up for grabs!,($120) hell between labor/materials i'm givin it away! for $165 they can have all 3 power caps!(thats $120 in caps free) it's not ez to get one to fit just right(rear seat lip over box ect ect) thanks! love seen different installs in these cars!

[2fnloud]

I am waiting on my amps to be released.


Hey thats funny i got the exact setup(Kickers) for my rear fills except mine are the Cvt 2ohm(model) this months audio car winner(the orange sl) may look better but im safe to say mine sounds better!(its nice for a system to look good but how does it sound?)
not to brag but my Vr4 is completely sound proofed,The list of Equipment is an Alpine W910 Hu,Alpine 701 w701 rux controller(processor,x-over,Eq,time alighnment,bla bla!)on optical cables all Phoenix gold M100,M50,M44,M25 amps! (except my huge Us amp on 2x12 Alpine type X subs!) Mechman 240a alt(big3 grounding done),heavy duty Battery upfront,agm batt in rear,3x2.5 caps(soon removing as caps are a waste of time & money) pioneer stage4 2and5/8" mids(don't laugh at these pioneers $450 a pr little guys.)as they fit perfect in stock dash spots and believe it or not are my favorite pieces in the whole system! Also keep in mind these are mids(built like tanks!) not tweeters! and they seriously F'n rock!(loud and clear!) I have a pr of $750 6.5" SR6500 Polks in my doors and those little mids keep right up with my big $ Polks! and ad soooo much to the front sound staging!(after hearing them i couldn't be w/o them and of course got the Kicker Cvt 6.5 mini subs(set at 63hz-300hz low/mid) in rear and their not doin squat? (biggest let down of my whole system! Ya i'm not sure if it's a cancellation(big subs clashing w/them?) issue or what had them completely sealed incl the port tube(stock 6x9 enclosures) closed off ect but the kickers are suppose to be like 150 rms/300pk but no volume at all?(i've heard louder ipods?) Btw how are your Kickers doin in your setup?? Hey 2F'N loud how r you commin along on your stereo install?(Jim aka spaceace60 in Pa.!) Btw I am always buying horse trading audio gear infact my 2x12 sub box is up for grabs!,($120) hell between labor/materials i'm givin it away! for $165 they can have all 3 power caps!(thats $120 in caps free) it's not ez to get one to fit just right(rear seat lip over box ect ect) thanks! love seen different installs in these cars!

[futurevr4man]

Hey thats funny i got the exact setup(Kickers) for my rear fills except mine are the Cvt 2ohm(model) this months audio car winner(the orange sl) may look better but im safe to say mine sounds better!(its nice for a system to look good but how does it sound?)
not to brag but my Vr4 is completely sound proofed,The list of Equipment is an Alpine W910 Hu,Alpine 701 w701 rux controller(processor,x-over,Eq,time alighnment,bla bla!)on optical cables all Phoenix gold M100,M50,M44,M25 amps! (except my huge Us amp on 2x12 Alpine type X subs!) Mechman 240a alt(big3 grounding done),heavy duty Battery upfront,agm batt in rear,3x2.5 caps(soon removing as caps are a waste of time & money) pioneer stage4 2and5/8" mids(don't laugh at these pioneers $450 a pr little guys.)as they fit perfect in stock dash spots and believe it or not are my favorite pieces in the whole system! Also keep in mind these are mids(built like tanks!) not tweeters! and they seriously F'n rock!(loud and clear!) I have a pr of $750 6.5" SR6500 Polks in my doors and those little mids keep right up with my big $ Polks! and ad soooo much to the front sound staging!(after hearing them i couldn't be w/o them and of course got the Kicker Cvt 6.5 mini subs(set at 63hz-300hz low/mid) in rear and their not doin squat? (biggest let down of my whole system! Ya i'm not sure if it's a cancellation(big subs clashing w/them?) issue or what had them completely sealed incl the port tube(stock 6x9 enclosures) closed off ect but the kickers are suppose to be like 150 rms/300pk but no volume at all?(i've heard louder ipods?) Btw how are your Kickers doin in your setup?? Hey 2F'N loud how r you commin along on your stereo install?(Jim aka spaceace60 in Pa.!) Btw I am always buying horse trading audio gear infact my 2x12 sub box is up for grabs!,($120) hell between labor/materials i'm givin it away! for $165 they can have all 3 power caps!(thats $120 in caps free) it's not ez to get one to fit just right(rear seat lip over box ect ect) thanks! love seen different installs in these cars!

paragraph breaks. please.

[j2k4]

For the beneift of those whose eyes bleed while trying to decipher word-bricks:


Hey thats funny i got the exact setup(Kickers) for my

rear fills except mine are the Cvt 2ohm(model) this months audio car winner(the

orange sl) may look better but im safe to say mine sounds better!(its nice for a system

to look good but how does it sound?)

not to brag but my Vr4 is completely sound proofed,The list of Equipment is an Alpine

W910 Hu,Alpine 701 w701 rux controller(processor,x-over,Eq,time alighnment,bla bla!)

on optical cables all Phoenix gold M100,M50,M44,M25 amps! (except my huge Us amp

on 2x12 Alpine type X subs!) Mechman 240a alt(big3 grounding done),heavy duty

Battery upfront,agm batt in rear,3x2.5 caps(soon removing as caps are a waste of time

& money) pioneer stage4 2and5/8" mids(don't laugh at these pioneers $450 a pr little

guys.)as they fit perfect in stock dash spots and believe it or not are my favorite

pieces in the whole system! Also keep in mind these are mids(built like tanks!) not

tweeters! and they seriously F'n rock!(loud and clear!) I have a pr of $750 6.5" SR6500

Polks in my doors and those little mids keep right up with my big $ Polks! and ad

soooo much to the front sound staging!(after hearing them i couldn't be w/o them and

of course got the Kicker Cvt 6.5 mini subs(set at 63hz-300hz low/mid) in rear and

their not doin squat? (biggest let down of my whole system! Ya i'm not sure if it's a

cancellation(big subs clashing w/them?) issue or what had them completely sealed

incl the port tube(stock 6x9 enclosures) closed off ect but the kickers are suppose to

be like 150 rms/300pk but no volume at all?(i've heard louder ipods?) Btw how are

your Kickers doin in your setup?? Hey 2F'N loud how r you commin along on your

stereo install?(Jim aka spaceace60 in Pa.!) Btw I am always buying horse trading

audio gear infact my 2x12 sub box is up for grabs!,($120) hell between

labor/materials i'm givin it away! for $165 they can have all 3 power caps!(thats $120

in caps free) it's not ez to get one to fit just right(rear seat lip over box ect ect)

thanks! love seen different installs in these cars!

[spaceace60]

wow to funny those were almost same kickers i had in rear of mine! then i went to cdt 6x9 gold series but next im getting a pr of 7x10 focals(so badass)but $399 a pr! cpl pics of my system ive done alot of upgrades since! type x subs,mechman alt ect ect but i HIGHLY recommend pioneer stage4 ts062prs 2 5/8" mids for dash (they are perfect fit!)these are badass mids not tweets! they are $450 a pr but so worth(pic on far right!) it i have $750 polks in my doors and the Pioneers sound better!(can't handle as much low end but add sooo much to front stage and again you would never believe how loud/clear these little guys are!!,but its so cool as they fit perfect in our dash position~and i removed my caps they look cool but do more damage than good!

[spaceace60]

This was system cpl yrs ago,not the showiest,but i'd bet one of the best sounding!

1) Alpine W910 headunit
2) Alpine H701 processor /wH701rux controller
3) 3 Phoenix Gold amps(M50,M100,Rt66 6ch amps)
4) Pioneer Stage4 2-5/8" mids(dash)
5) Polk Sr6500 6-3/4" component set w/tweeters(front doors)
6) Kicker 6.5 mid/sub w/adapter plates(rear seats) housings completely sealed incl ports
7) Alpine Dvc Type R 12" subs(x2)sealed
8) Agm highend battery
9) Mechman 270amp Ho alt
10) fully sound proofed/matted/closed cell foam
2 farad caps on ea.amp(they actually have a purpose lol) filtering ect
however this system is NOTHING to one in progress! main thing is as a lifelong musician/Dj/Sound engineer is knowing what to listen for! True audiophiles know a $100 sub in the right box sounds better than a $1000 sub in the wrong box!,but since our platform isnt exactly set up for audio im still learning from others and open for new ideas! Btw my fav items in car by far are the Pioneer Stage4 in dash(they fit great sound awesome!)however not cheap! nxt best option Focal Kx power 3" the rearfill Kickers sucked(i'll never buy another Kicker product!

[IPD]

I'm no longer convinced that large is the way to go. I have 1 downfiring 10" sealed sub in my VX, and it's plenty. I can't imagine how it will be after i swap out the stock 5 & 4.5" speakers.