$15,000 in performance parts what would you get?

[MyNObody]

I have a '93 vr4. I've collected all parts I want to change the look of it, just need to get it into a shop and painted.

I have $15,000 to spend on performance parts, what would you recommend?

The car has 145k miles on it, I've done all the regular maintenance (120k service and beyond replacing 'the usual'), drove it to key west (4500 miles) with no worries and no issues. Solid runner.

I have the borla exhaust, tein flex, brembo brakes. Everything else mechanically is stock.

I'm big on having a stable car, so I really was thinking have the engine completely rebuilt, then focus the work around bigger turbos and the supporting mods.

But in the end, how would a couple of you spend $15,000 all in the angle of performance?

I want to be able to drive the car comfortably on the road, particularly at distances (I'm a big road trip fan). So, I don't want anything too unruly. Maybe the difference between $10,000 and $15,000 isn't even that big and I should just save the money? I'd just like to hear some thoughts directly on my exact subject, I've gathered my own personal opinion, but won't let that influence people who have already been through this.

[Atrosity]

Administrator?

[mb7050]

nice username indeed

[CoreyB]

Wish I had thought of that.

[Atrosity]

Nadeem?? LOL

[CoreyB]

Do you drive a 3si ? Still searching for 1.

[MyNObody]

Administrator?

I was kp1139 on 3si

[MyNObody]

Do you drive a 3si ? Still searching for 1.

Me? A '93 vr4, I've had a '94 auto, '94 5 speed base, and now the vr4

[Hard AttacK]

Awesome username ahahahah!

I would do a single turbo pampena stroker on coilovers. :D

[MyNObody]

I guess censorship goes on here too, can't even pick the name I want. Thought things were going to be different here.

[CoreyB]

That was fast.

[pezcore]

A newer car ;)

[x2percentmilk]

dr750's and pocket the cash. looks stock, very streetable and those who have them cant get over how much fun they are

or if you want more oomph do a stroker with dr1000/dr12000

[MyNObody]

That was fast.

Yeah, I heard this new forum was fast

[MyNObody]

A newer car ;)

Without being personally invested in this one, would totally agree.

[mb7050]

I guess censorship goes on here too, can't even pick the name I want. Thought things were going to be different here.

dude your funny :)

[i3igpete]

Nadeem?? LOL

someone deleted my "Nadeem" account :confused: :(

[Atrosity]

Haha it was probably overlooked to take the name administrator. Probably had a lot to do when launching this website.

[MR2]

Definitely go 750's and all supporting mods :)

by supporting I mean strenghthening the drive train...that'll be 8K right there.

[Lugnut]

dr750's and pocket the cash. looks stock, very streetable and those who have them cant get over how much fun they are

or if you want more oomph do a stroker with dr1000/dr12000


Agreed .. Or 19t's .. really depends on your goals

[enollava]

Buy a 6G74 and build it up for boost. Get a TD05 kit with 20G turbos. Beef up the transmission. That should take up your 15K to spend. If I had 15K thats where I would look into spending it.

[skater334]

IMO, DR-800's, fuel system, intake, injectors, Pampena 3.1L shortblock, clutch, management, wheels, tires, body kit, and paint.

[MK_94_3000GT]

$15k will get eaten up VERY quickly when leaving TD04/05 Turbos. Especially since anything above that horsepower will likely require an engine build and some trans/tcase upgrades. I know having a DR800 car. Could be done if you're doing all your own work (like I did). Its more than just turbos and what everyone seems to make it out to be, fuel, fuel control, gauges, wb, injectors, misc electronics, the list of little things goes on and on. Not to mention how quickly it adds up.

[x2percentmilk]

^ good point. that stuff is difficult to budget too

[futurevr4man]

well i built my engine for right about 11k and its fully built with supporting mods and electronics, injectors and everything.

if i had 15k i would make a 6g74 block with a 6g75 crank. i would get some vr4 heads and port/polish the piss out of them along with cams, bigger valves etc. i would wind up with a 3.7 - 3.9L with either big 16g's or 20g's. the drivetrain can be upgraded later (cfds, braces, etc etc) obviously you would need a clutch. but i would just build a monster engine then later (during break in period... aka no launching or really giving it hell) i would try and upgrade any weak points.

but thats just me. i look at these cars differently than most. i think it would be fun to have 25-26psi with the spool time of 16t's personally. not to mention a butt load more power

[Lugnut]

$15k will get eaten up VERY quickly when leaving TD04/05 Turbos. Especially since anything above that horsepower will likely require an engine build and some trans/tcase upgrades. I know having a DR800 car. Could be done if you're doing all your own work (like I did). Its more than just turbos and what everyone seems to make it out to be, fuel, fuel control, gauges, wb, injectors, misc electronics, the list of little things goes on and on. Not to mention how quickly it adds up.

Food for thought .. 15k will get you a top notch 750 build minus wheels, tires, drivetrain, tranny, and engine work .. Which you will really need to do if you plan on utilizing the turbos !!!

[MK_94_3000GT]

well i built my engine for right about 11k and its fully built with supporting mods and electronics, injectors and everything.

if i had 15k i would make a 6g74 block with a 6g75 crank. i would get some vr4 heads and port/polish the piss out of them along with cams, bigger valves etc. i would wind up with a 3.7 - 3.9L with either big 16g's or 20g's. the drivetrain can be upgraded later (cfds, braces, etc etc) obviously you would need a clutch. but i would just build a monster engine then later (during break in period... aka no launching or really giving it hell) i would try and upgrade any weak points.

but thats just me. i look at these cars differently than most. i think it would be fun to have 25-26psi with the spool time of 16t's personally. not to mention a butt load more power

And what is your built set up that cost 11k? Just wondering because the jump from 72 to 74 is not "a few" changes. Once you change turbos, you're changing manifolds gotta factor in those.Gotta buy a new block and crank, various parts don't just bolt on from your motor so if you dont get a complete engine you have to source those out too. Ported and polished heads like the DR ones can cost in the $3k range (new of course). I'm not saying it cant be done, but a 74 build is pricey, especially with the machine work and what not.

[Amphiron]

6g74 + dr750 + supporting mods + supercar engineering LSD + AEM EMS + coilovers =raep

[Polygon]

I'm not quite sure, but here's what I am sure about.

25 Spline 5-Speed from Kormex
25 Speed T-Case from Kormex
SCE Torsen Center Diff
Quaife Front LSD
Coil-Overs
Stoptech BBK
IPS Quad Tip Exhaust
Re-Paint
Finish The Interior

I don't think $15 would cover that. I would be over by the time I hit the paint I think. But hey, then all I'd have left is the engine.

[vr4_rider]

Food for thought .. 15k will get you a top notch 750 build minus wheels, tires, drivetrain, tranny, and engine work .. Which you will really need to do if you plan on utilizing the turbos !!!


Wait..what? You are saying he's going to spend 15k on a dr750 build, but he'll have to spend more for wheels, tires, drivetrain, tranny, and engine work?






OP, if I were you, save your money or "invest" it. 15k is a lot to be dropping into a car that is so old and the 15k in mods/looks is more likely to depreciate so fast you'll going to regret it. That's just my opinion. Find a nice, strong, good dividend stock and put it in that. Or do a mutual fund.

[CoreyB]

I would probably spend it making the car like new or better than new, maybe some minor power mods but thats it.

[JasonY]

Wait..what? You are saying he's going to spend 15k on a dr750 build, but he'll have to spend more for wheels, tires, drivetrain, tranny, and engine work?.

Thats exactly what he said, and he would know since thats what his 750 setup cost to buy to go from a stock car to properly supported 750 car. Still stock engine and no expensive drivetrain upgrades either...shit adds up fast:mad:

Jason

[TurboSinceBirth]

Thats exactly what he said, and he would know since thats what his 750 setup cost to buy to go from a stock car to properly supported 750 car. Still stock engine and no expensive drivetrain upgrades either...shit adds up fast:mad:

Jason

Yep. Go check out Matt's mod list and go add up the cost of everything on his site. You'll be looking at around $15k in parts alone. The engine will still be stock, most of the drivetrain will be stock, stock wheels, stock suspension, stock body, and stock interior with the exception of a few gauges. $15k won't get you too far but with that budget I'd stick with TD04s or a basic TD05 E16 build with 680cc injectors, MBC, MAFT, Walbro 255 lph fuel pump with hotwire, FMIC, boost gauge, wideband, datalogger, copper plugs, and maybe a few other things I'm forgetting.

In reality you should just do maintenance and preventative maintenance on your car to get it in tip top shape before you start modding it. Replacing worn parts will take up most of that $15k.

[stealthee]

Dropping $15k into modding a car is just silly unless you have a ton of expendable income, ie make $200,000 or more a year. I'd keep the money and invest it or something. Do some basic mods to the car. You can buy a modded 3s for the price you want to put into yours in mods. Its just not sane in this time of scary economics.

[vr4_rider]

Dropping $15k into modding a car is just silly unless you have a ton of expendable income, ie make $200,000 or more a year. I'd keep the money and invest it or something. Do some basic mods to the car. You can buy a modded 3s for the price you want to put into yours in mods. Its just not sane in this time of scary economics.

Ahem!!

[Lugnut]

Wait..what? You are saying he's going to spend 15k on a dr750 build, but he'll have to spend more for wheels, tires, drivetrain, tranny, and engine work?








OP, if I were you, save your money or "invest" it. 15k is a lot to be dropping into a car that is so old and the 15k in mods/looks is more likely to depreciate so fast you'll going to regret it. That's just my opinion. Find a nice, strong, good dividend stock and put it in that. Or do a mutual fund.



Dropping $15k into modding a car is just silly unless you have a ton of expendable income, ie make $200,000 or more a year. I'd keep the money and invest it or something. Do some basic mods to the car. You can buy a modded 3s for the price you want to put into yours in mods. Its just not sane in this time of scary economics.

IDK if you guys are talking about me or not and I dont wanna sound like a dick when I say this, but I have all that covered .. Been done that .. This car is the final piece in the puzzle for me .. And I wanna say I truly do agree with everything said .. 15k is alot of money to drop in a car, which is a horrible horrible financial investment if you ever plan to sell it .. The 30k I end up dropping on my car will make it twice as bad as well, but I personally could care less .. For me its a personal investment .. Money is just a ways to a means in this life and its not important unless you dont have it .. As for me 30k is a cheap price to pay for this type of vehicle .. And if this car spins a bearing or does anything else short of being totalled .. I will just fix it and move forward .. No big deal .. And if I dont like these 750's .. I will just sell them and just buy something else .. No big deal !!

[CoreyB]

I think you will need new wheels. And you can um donate the ones in your sig to me.:cool:

[MR2]

There are plenty of people selling the stock chrome 18's...

[CoreyB]

Selling yes, Donating No lol

[brutten]

IDK if you guys are talking about me or not and I dont wanna sound like a dick when I say this, but I have all that covered .. Been done that .. This car is the final piece in the puzzle for me .. And I wanna say I truly do agree with everything said .. 15k is alot of money to drop in a car, which is a horrible horrible financial investment if you ever plan to sell it .. The 30k I end up dropping on my car will make it twice as bad as well, but I personally could care less .. For me its a personal investment .. Money is just a ways to a means in this life and its not important unless you dont have it .. As for me 30k is a cheap price to pay for this type of vehicle .. And if this car spins a bearing or does anything else short of being totalled .. I will just fix it and move forward .. No big deal .. And if I dont like these 750's .. I will just sell them and just buy something else .. No big deal !!

Sounds like you have given this some thought and know what you want. I would vote for the 750's myself and keep the car as streetable as possible. In my opinion 750's is about the limit in turbo size for a fun street car / reliable on long trips. Some may disagree but I can say on my first mod spree I went with everyone's suggestions and ended up with a fast 1/4 car and found I was really missing the ability to just hop in and drive a slightly modified car and have fun without worrying about breaking things or watching a dozen gauges all the time. I ended up selling that car and starting over with the lessons I learned.

[Polygon]

IDK if you guys are talking about me or not and I dont wanna sound like a dick when I say this, but I have all that covered .. Been done that .. This car is the final piece in the puzzle for me .. And I wanna say I truly do agree with everything said .. 15k is alot of money to drop in a car, which is a horrible horrible financial investment if you ever plan to sell it .. The 30k I end up dropping on my car will make it twice as bad as well, but I personally could care less .. For me its a personal investment .. Money is just a ways to a means in this life and its not important unless you dont have it .. As for me 30k is a cheap price to pay for this type of vehicle .. And if this car spins a bearing or does anything else short of being totalled .. I will just fix it and move forward .. No big deal .. And if I dont like these 750's .. I will just sell them and just buy something else .. No big deal !!

Exactly!

I haven't gotten to this point on my Stealth because I'm busy playing that game with my other car. I've spent a little over $14,000 on it so far and I haven't even touched the engine yet. I imagine it will have cost me a little over $20,000 to finish it. It's a horrible investment. Cars usually are if were talking about monetary return. I'll never seen that money again and I don't care. The car is worth about $3,500 but when it's done there won't be a better new car for $20k and that's what this car will be, new. When I'm done with it I intend to do the same to the Stealth albeit with about 300 more HP.

I'm not doing this for money. I'm doing this because I enjoy it. Also, I make about $30k a year, not much. It may take a lot of money. It just means it take me a little longer than I like.

[Lugnut]

Sounds like you have given this some thought and know what you want. I would vote for the 750's myself and keep the car as streetable as possible. In my opinion 750's is about the limit in turbo size for a fun street car / reliable on long trips. Some may disagree but I can say on my first mod spree I went with everyone's suggestions and ended up with a fast 1/4 car and found I was really missing the ability to just hop in and drive a slightly modified car and have fun without worrying about breaking things or watching a dozen gauges all the time. I ended up selling that car and starting over with the lessons I learned.


I dont mean to hijack this thread with all this but You know your spot on .. And what I wanted out of this was a fun, reliable, ten second daily driver !!! And it appears the DR750's are exactly that .. I started looking into building this car in 2007 and had the extra cash at the time to do it, but when I didnt find the ideal build I just went and bought the 98 instead .. I do know I could make more power for probably less money etc.etc.etc. but that isnt what Im after here .. Money isnt the issue for me .. Reaching my goal is .. Personally, I want the funnest car I can build within my goals .. And like you said above I also believe this is it for the 3/S platform .. Any faster is just gonna be too fast IMO .. And with the ease of the Arc-2 as explained to me for tuning this car it should be pretty much what the 2010 VR4 should be when all is said and done .. So Im gonna rock the 98 stock for now and toy with the 97 and hopefully with any luck and alot of cash have the best of both worlds ..

On another note and I say this just for a point of interest for any of you reading this, IMO the stock 97 is a far better car than the stock 98 due to the suspension set up .. It handles alot better on street and I will miss it ..


I think you will need new wheels. And you can um donate the ones in your sig to me.:cool:

Well its a secret so dont tell anyone but I think the stockies are gonna be wrapped in drag radials for those occasional occasions !!


Exactly!

I haven't gotten to this point on my Stealth because I'm busy playing that game with my other car. I've spent a little over $14,000 on it so far and I haven't even touched the engine yet. I imagine it will have cost me a little over $20,000 to finish it. It's a horrible investment. Cars usually are if were talking about monetary return. I'll never seen that money again and I don't care. The car is worth about $3,500 but when it's done there won't be a better new car for $20k and that's what this car will be, new. When I'm done with it I intend to do the same to the Stealth albeit with about 300 more HP.

I'm not doing this for money. I'm doing this because I enjoy it. Also, I make about $30k a year, not much. It may take a lot of money. It just means it take me a little longer than I like.

My neighbor has a couple of oldsmobiles .. 442's .. And you know when I chatted him up about all this he promised me from one car lover to another it would be worth every penny plus .. Much like you I guess we will see !!

[TT Eric]

15K$ is what I've spent each year for the last 3 years. I preffer that then have a 70K$+ car under monthly payment.

Eric

[SnakeSkinner]

DR750's and supporting mods. I'm driving my DR750 car today, man it's fun!!!

Turbo Porn!

http://www.dynamicracing.com/mw/images/f/f1/DSC00287.JPG

http://www.dynamicracing.com/mw/images/9/9f/DSC00286.JPG

Over 600 AWHP and looking like this... Priceless

http://www.dynamicracing.com/mw/images/1/11/White_stealth_004.jpg

[92pearltt]

Turbo porn win.

[Lugnut]

I need a moment alone .. Dont look at me !!!

[Apache]

Over 600 AWHP and looking like this... Priceless

http://www.dynamicracing.com/mw/images/1/11/White_stealth_004.jpg

Hard to argue with that logic...

[futurevr4man]

And what is your built set up that cost 11k? Just wondering because the jump from 72 to 74 is not "a few" changes. Once you change turbos, you're changing manifolds gotta factor in those.Gotta buy a new block and crank, various parts don't just bolt on from your motor so if you dont get a complete engine you have to source those out too. Ported and polished heads like the DR ones can cost in the $3k range (new of course). I'm not saying it cant be done, but a 74 build is pricey, especially with the machine work and what not.

well a big factor is, do you know anyone with a machine shop? can you get decent prices if you dont? are you going to do most if not all of it yourself?

my built setup is
- 3.1L forged crank, rods, pistons
- heads with port and polish, valve job, 99 lifters, new seals, milled flat
- 19t's
- blow thru setup (3.75" z06 maf with maf-t)
- 550cc inj
- safcII
- fuel pump
- wideband 02, oil pressure gauge
- tons of other little things i cant even remember.

i spent like ~13k on everything so far, but i have almost 2k of extra stuff im trying to sell off right now. i have moda r6's, a nice dnp y-pipe (draw thru setup), had to buy brake calipers, rotors, transfer case, short block... everything. i did it all for like 13k dude. if i can get all that for that price... oh yeah, that price also includes buying the rolling chassis... if i can do that, then a 6g74 build, engine only, is VERY doable on 15k.

[MK_94_3000GT]

well a big factor is, do you know anyone with a machine shop? can you get decent prices if you dont? are you going to do most if not all of it yourself?

my built setup is
- 3.1L forged crank, rods, pistons
- heads with port and polish, valve job, 99 lifters, new seals, milled flat
- 19t's
- blow thru setup (3.75" z06 maf with maf-t)
- 550cc inj
- safcII
- fuel pump
- wideband 02, oil pressure gauge
- tons of other little things i cant even remember.

i spent like ~13k on everything so far, but i have almost 2k of extra stuff im trying to sell off right now. i have moda r6's, a nice dnp y-pipe (draw thru setup), had to buy brake calipers, rotors, transfer case, short block... everything. i did it all for like 13k dude. if i can get all that for that price... oh yeah, that price also includes buying the rolling chassis... if i can do that, then a 6g74 build, engine only, is VERY doable on 15k.

I respectfully disagree with you, mainly because all of what you did is nice and all. However if you're going 74 you aren't staying TD04 are you? Which means manifolds, turbos ect. I only say this from having a built 72 with DR800s.

[MR2]

Sounds like you have given this some thought and know what you want. I would vote for the 750's myself and keep the car as streetable as possible. In my opinion 750's is about the limit in turbo size for a fun street car / reliable on long trips. Some may disagree but I can say on my first mod spree I went with everyone's suggestions and ended up with a fast 1/4 car and found I was really missing the ability to just hop in and drive a slightly modified car and have fun without worrying about breaking things or watching a dozen gauges all the time. I ended up selling that car and starting over with the lessons I learned.

This is a seriously underrated post.....so many times I see this.

[mikeyVR4]

Remain BPU and get some nice Bolt-on TD04. Driving the car/enjoying it should be key and not have the car in a garage half the time since most members went way too far into modifications. I would rather jump into my car, start it up, and drive without any worries. I dont want to end up hating my car like I have read so many times on the "other" site.

[mikeyVR4]

When using a ARC2, does this force your BOV to stay recirculating?

[TurboSinceBirth]

I'd stay away from a 6G72 stroker or a 6G74 motor. For $15k you won't be able to do everything. I don't think it's a really smart move to go that big anyways because TD04s are useless on a 3.5L motor choking them up top. I wouldn't go any smaller than DR-1000s personally on a 3.5L. Stick with some DR-750s and be done with it. The car will be simple and much more enjoyable. Once you go beyond TD04 turbos you don't realize everything that's involved until you start building the car because plenty of other things come up that have to be fixed, replaced, or upgraded because these cars are getting old. Once you start digging in it's hard not to do everything at once.

[MADMarc]

For 15k?! I'd do a DR750 build, stroke my 440 block to a 500 and buy a Challenger to put it in :D

[vr4_rider]

stroker + single kit! yeaaahhhhh, baby!!

[Austin@STM]

What is your deffinition of an enjoyable car. Everyone likes different things, and basically you just have to look through everyones builds and see what you like about them and what you dont.

Here's how i spent about 15k including buying the car. I think its enjoyable (call me crazy), reliable as possible, i hop in it every morning to go to work.

It's been done! 10.95@124.77 on Stock 9b's/Motor (http://www.3sgto.org/showthread.php?528-It-s-been-done!-10.95-124.77-on-Stock-9b-s-Motor)

Hope that gives you some different ideas. I made the car how i want it, i wanted to push the stock turbos but everything i did was also set up for my real goal of big power in the end.

Set a goal for the car, and then start buying the parts to get it there.

-Austin@STM

[futurevr4man]

I respectfully disagree with you, mainly because all of what you did is nice and all. However if you're going 74 you aren't staying TD04 are you? Which means manifolds, turbos ect. I only say this from having a built 72 with DR800s.

i just dont understand how you can disagree when i have built my car from the ground up, having to buy the entire engine, transfer case (luckily not a trans though), rolling chassis, belts, fluids, heads, everything for 13k. i say to people i have about 14k in it because by now i probably do. i have gone blow thru now, and everything associated with that.

as i said, if you can do the work yourself, 15k is more than enough to build a 6g74 monster. i guarantee i could build a 3.7-3.9L shortblock for less than 5k. that leaves you 10k to do top end, turbos, and find the little weird pieces you need to make power steering and junk work.

one day i will build my dream engine. when i get done i will add everything up and find you and let you know how much it is. it seems people dont understand that there is technology out there that has already been proven and just needs to be adapted for our cars. getting custom pistons/rods made is only as expensive as 3sx charges for their forged pistons rods... and we all know how much they mark up the price on everything. i have done the math, i promise you its doable. 15k is a lot to spend on a motor, but thats what *I* would do with it.

[vr4_rider]

Is it true that e85 is not really e85, but it could be a range from e70 to e98?

[TurboSinceBirth]

Is it true that e85 is not really e85, but it could be a range from e70 to e98?

It would never be as high as e98. The highest it would ever be is E85. During the winter it's a lot lower than that and even during the other seasons it may not be as close to E85 as you think. That's why it's good to do a water test at the pump to see what concentration of ethanol you have in the fuel.

[Austin@STM]

Is it true that e85 is not really e85, but it could be a range from e70 to e98?

yes this is true for sure. There isnt much of a differnece though up here at least. Not enough people use it so by the time they put e85 in there is still a lot of 70 left andand it all kind of mixes together. We've never really noticed a huge difference when the stations switch because of this. It is something to pay attention to though.

[vr4_rider]

It would never be as high as e98. The highest it would ever be is E85. During the winter it's a lot lower than that and even during the other seasons it may not be as close to E85 as you think. That's why it's good to do a water test at the pump to see what concentration of ethanol you have in the fuel.


Michael, if the pump has e70, e85, and e98 why can't the mixture be more than e85? The line may have e98 from the previous user.
Or do they not have e70 and e98 at ethanol pumps?

[vr4_rider]

yes this is true for sure. There isnt much of a differnece though up here at least. Not enough people use it so by the time they put e85 in there is still a lot of 70 left andand it all kind of mixes together. We've never really noticed a huge difference when the stations switch because of this. It is something to pay attention to though.

Crap--that's kinda scary! I was thinking of getting an AEM tune on e85.

[Austin@STM]

Crap--that's kinda scary! I was thinking of getting an AEM tune on e85.

DO IT! It is absolutely worth it, just be sure to keep an eye on the gas, you can test it, or ask the people that work there, a manager should know what it is.

To the previous post, there are no e-70 or e-98 pumps, and there is never E-98 in the pump. All pumps are E-85 pumps, just somtimes at least up north they switch to a winter blend of E-70 because it is easier to start than E-85, and then for a couple months in summer it goes to e-85

[vr4_rider]

Ah, thanks Austin..Tell Em I said what's up:)

[Mean Green]

If I had 15k and I wanted to put it into my 3k I would

1. Make sure I have a dependable DD, so there goes 3~4k

2. I'd get a Pampena Stroker and a TD05 kit w/ 16g's or hell...20G's...lol

[stealthee]

There's no reason you can't run E85 on a factory ECU, you just need bigger injectors and maybe something to control timing.

Steve

What the fuck are you smoking?

[Austin@STM]

What the fuck are you smoking?

:lol7: We have been trying to figure that one out

[stealthee]

I've never heard of this clown until 3sgto came about and he has given out more bad info in a month than some gave out in 6 years.

[Austin@STM]

I am glad to know other people know its bad info.

[MK_94_3000GT]

i just dont understand how you can disagree when i have built my car from the ground up, having to buy the entire engine, transfer case (luckily not a trans though), rolling chassis, belts, fluids, heads, everything for 13k. i say to people i have about 14k in it because by now i probably do. i have gone blow thru now, and everything associated with that.

as i said, if you can do the work yourself, 15k is more than enough to build a 6g74 monster. i guarantee i could build a 3.7-3.9L shortblock for less than 5k. that leaves you 10k to do top end, turbos, and find the little weird pieces you need to make power steering and junk work.

one day i will build my dream engine. when i get done i will add everything up and find you and let you know how much it is. it seems people dont understand that there is technology out there that has already been proven and just needs to be adapted for our cars. getting custom pistons/rods made is only as expensive as 3sx charges for their forged pistons rods... and we all know how much they mark up the price on everything. i have done the math, i promise you its doable. 15k is a lot to spend on a motor, but thats what *I* would do with it.

You need to not take what I say personally. I'm not saying your stupid for thinking it, I just RESPECTFULLY disagree with you. Meaning I hear what you're saying, but I dont believe it.

Ok so for the sake of argument, lets say you can build and assemble a 3.7-3.9L Short block for $5k

What turbos are you putting on there? How much do they cost?
Heads, are you going some kind of stage 3 or ported and polished, whats that cost?
Cams and gears, what you doing there?
What engine management system are you running, how much does it cost?
What injectors are you running, how much do they cost?
What fuel do you plan on running, if its going to be e85 then what set up are you running?
Gauges?
Boost controller?

I'm going to guess you know where I'm going with this at this point. Point being even if you buy everything used, I dont see this coming in at $15k. Why cuz I have receipts from my own build (DR800, 72 3.1L) as well as another build (DR800, 72 3.1L done by a shop). So good luck with your $15k 74 monster, but by mere definition of a monster I dont think thats enough for parts and machine work.

[TurboSinceBirth]

Michael, if the pump has e70, e85, and e98 why can't the mixture be more than e85? The line may have e98 from the previous user.
Or do they not have e70 and e98 at ethanol pumps?

I must have misunderstood. I didn't think you could get E98 at the pump and I still don't believe you can. I've only seen that for sale online in drums and some stores that sell ethanol which I haven't found any local yet. I thought you were talking about E-85 at the pump. It couldn't be an higher because the company mixes in reg 87 unleaded to get the desired ethanol concentration. If they had E98, then the gas station would be screwing themselves in price. The winter blend for E-85 is actually closer to E70. There's quite a bit more gasoline added to the ethanol during the winter so flex fuel vehicles will start up easier. Running E85 or a higher concentration of ethanol during the winter will result in hard starts if any at all sometimes. Running a standalone is about the only way around running high levels of ethanol with the cold weather because you can tweak the startup tables and parameters.

Edit: Austin beat me to it. :)

[Mean Green]

What the fuck are you smoking?

Technically he is right.

Give us a reason why he would be wrong? I know people who are running E85 with stock ecu with piggy backs. Now that people are getting more and more into hacking our OEM ecu's, I see this very possible in the near future.

[stealthee]

I didn't say it couldnt be done with piggy backs. He said with the stock ECU and aftermarket injectors. IE no way to control flow. That would never be a good running car.