manual awd to automatic awd swap

[JohnnyTurbo]

Nothing came back in a search, so here I ask the question: What does it take to pull a six speed and replace it with an automatic out of a JDM VR4? Logic tells me that going from atx to manual would be harder due to having to put in clutch and shifter stuff. I have AEM EMS onboard, does the atx require computer assist from the factory ECU? Reason for asking is since I picked up my Stealth TT project I figured that my wife would be able to drive the '96 VR4 if it were atx.

And yes, doing the swap would be easier than teaching her how to drive stick.

[stealthee]

Swapping auto to manual is easier than swapping manual to auto.

Teaching how to drive stick would take a day and no money. Swapping would take several days, headaches and lots of money.

[Keyan]

You'd need atx engine harness and maybe interior harness, you'd need the atx ecu, you'd need a trans oil cooler, trans, torque converter, Jdm atx tcase (which is a dsm tcase), shifter assy, I think you'd need a 5spd rear diff? Among other plates bolts and other stuff.

[Droid X via Tapatalk]

[TUFFTR]

I'd just teach her how to use a manual gearbox. Will take someone one proper full day start to finish to get the hang of it. After a few week's it'll be second nature.
WAYYYYY more hassle converting to Automatic. I'd just buy her a $1000 automatic car, much easier again!

[IPD]

here's my $.02, and i'm in the vast minority on this:

mtx > atx swap is not nearly as difficult as everyone makes it out to be. it requires primarily electronic modifications; not mechanical ones. you can splice in the tcu with about the same difficulty as adding a tt ecu to an atx tt.

keyan is pretty much 100% wrong about everything. you don't need another ecu; you need a tcu. you don't need to replace the harnesses; you need to simply splice in the wiring for the transmission subsystem components. the 6-speed rear end is what you need (which this car already has).

since you already have AEM, you can pretty much make your car do whatever you want--so hooking it with a tcu should be relatively simple (vs. some of the obd codes that you may encounter from the tcu/tt-ecu route. alternatively, you can go with an IPT (or other brand) push-button shifter for atx's. i don't have any experience or knowledge about AEM, so i can't tell you what it can or can't do with regards to this application. it might be possible to have it supplant the tcu altogether; then again, it probably can't. i honestly don't know. there isn't any sort of "computer assist". the ecu doesn't do anything to the trans, it simply provides info like rpm's.

whatever you do decide to do; i'd recommend finding a junk fwd 3/s trans & pulling all the sensors/gizmos off it and putting them onto your awd atx. there's not a lot of hard info on what mitsubishi changed between diffferent 6g72/w4a33 applications. when we converted mine, we pulled everything off my FWD trans and put it on the new one. we never did find out if they were identical or not--we just did it to be on the safe side. make sure you keep everything the same year-year and model-model as well. both the tcu and electronics should be, ideally, from the same year and a DOHC engine. there isn't any advantage of one year over another; just know that the electronics changed over time--which is why atx's are not necessarily interchangeable. that's an electronic limitation; the mechanics are the same.

p.s.

i wish i'd gone this route instead of the fwd > awd atx route. only problem is...no one has had the balls/drive to do it. and of course, if someone DID do it, the 3/s community would hound them incessantly for doing it. converting a vr4/tt to atx is somehow a more cardinal sin than killing the pope. seriously. gotta love the bandwagon.

[GTOJOE]

FYI no such thing as a JDM ATX VR4/TT. All JDM TT's are MTX the ATX are all NA so it may not handle the power of a modded TT. You might need to beef it up.

[Keyan]

here's my $.02, and i'm in the vast minority on this:

mtx > atx swap is not nearly as difficult as everyone makes it out to be. it requires primarily electronic modifications; not mechanical ones. you can splice in the tcu with about the same difficulty as adding a tt ecu to an atx tt.

keyan is pretty much 100% wrong about everything. you don't need another ecu; you need a tcu. you don't need to replace the harnesses; you need to simply splice in the wiring for the transmission subsystem components. the 6-speed rear end is what you need (which this car already has).


im wrong about everything but the only thing you list is the 6 speed rear.

ATX ECU = Automatic transmission Electronic Control Module. Thats what I said. thanks for repeating me.

Don't make me look out to be such a dumbass.

Also, if you just need to splice in the "wiring", would you want to run connections from the engine bay all the way to the interior for the connections on the (ill say it your way) TCU? Which you dont have the connectors for, and would need to butcher a ATX harness ANYWAY to get them? I'm sure theres other electrical connections on the automatic transmission itself that wires would have to be run for. If you're going that far, might as well just throw an entire harness in it, which is easier than you think.


On my old hyundai, I was the ONLY GUY in the community to do an Automatic > Manual swap. It may not be a 3/S, but I DO know what im talking about. Solenoid connections, shifter sensor connections, reverse was wired different (switch vs shifter location sensor), more/less/different connectors all around. I'm not an idiot. I just gave a "general" list of what MAY be needed.

[Amphiron]

Wouldn't running an AWD on an ATX tear it to shreds? Especially with TT? But It might save him money considering what he would be paying in replacing burnt clutches. :P

[cjbyron]

Wouldn't running an AWD on an ATX tear it to shreds? Especially with TT? But It might save him money considering what he would be paying in replacing burnt clutches. :P

There are Automatics made for AWD. Surprisingly not very expensive either. But I would go through them and make some changes to deal with the extra power.

I looked into it before to do it on a higher hp project and to fully beef it up to hold over 1000+. Ended up getting a built-up manual instead so for now used that. But doing a build to an AWD ATX is something I'm interested in doing eventually when the manual craps out. Maybe next year.

[IPD]

FYI no such thing as a JDM ATX VR4/TT. All JDM TT's are MTX the ATX are all NA so it may not handle the power of a modded TT. You might need to beef it up.

i never said there was an atx awd tt. that said, the awd atx is a very capable transmission, as there are several DSM's who are using it and have faster 1/4 runs than the current 3/s world record--so take that for what its worth. there's a LOT of talk from people who have never used one of these transmissions about "how it might not hold up". do me a favor, if you don't have FACTUAL DATA on it...stop being a skeptic. there has been only ONE person who has had a consistent failure with it, and he was putting down > 800whp at the time.


im wrong about everything but the only thing you list is the 6 speed rear.

ATX ECU = Automatic transmission Electronic Control Module. Thats what I said. thanks for repeating me.

Don't make me look out to be such a dumbass.

Also, if you just need to splice in the "wiring", would you want to run connections from the engine bay all the way to the interior for the connections on the (ill say it your way) TCU? Which you dont have the connectors for, and would need to butcher a ATX harness ANYWAY to get them? I'm sure theres other electrical connections on the automatic transmission itself that wires would have to be run for. If you're going that far, might as well just throw an entire harness in it, which is easier than you think.


On my old hyundai, I was the ONLY GUY in the community to do an Automatic > Manual swap. It may not be a 3/S, but I DO know what im talking about. Solenoid connections, shifter sensor connections, reverse was wired different (switch vs shifter location sensor), more/less/different connectors all around. I'm not an idiot. I just gave a "general" list of what MAY be needed.

atx ecu = ecu from an atx car. this is NOT what he needs. he needs the transmission control unit, not the engine control unit.

additionally, there's benefits to running the TT harness, such as not having to wire resistors on the injectors. since he's doing this from scratch, there's no reason he has to run the TCU electronics to the stock locations.

i don't think you're an idiot. i think we all need to use the proper terms when discussing things such as this; because the ECU and TCU are two different computer modules. i salute your pioneering efforts with your hyundai. i do wish that there was work done with the mtx> atx realm for our cars.

it won't be "easy" by any stretch of imagination. if the OP is the same kind of guy like shooter83 (has electronic diagrams as bathroom reading material) then this type of conversion is probably well in hand.


Wouldn't running an AWD on an ATX tear it to shreds? Especially with TT? But It might save him money considering what he would be paying in replacing burnt clutches. :P

been running stock tt levels on my atx awd for over a year without issue. and that's a 100% stock atx awd. treat it right, keep it cool, and flush it frequently--and it will run like a top. i feel fairly confident in running another 100-150whp through it without issue. if it were built, i would feel confident running even more power through it.


There are Automatics made for AWD. Surprisingly not very expensive either. But I would go through them and make some changes to deal with the extra power.

I looked into it before to do it on a higher hp project and to fully beef it up to hold over 1000+. Ended up getting a built-up manual instead so for now used that. But doing a build to an AWD ATX is something I'm interested in doing eventually when the manual craps out. Maybe next year.

the only two areas in the atx which appear to fail at SIGNIFICANTLY high power levels are the 4th gear output shaft & the center differential. these are usually worked-around by not shifting to 4th under high-power situations & by welding the center differential.

[Keyan]

atx ecu = ecu from an atx car. this is NOT what he needs. he needs the transmission control unit, not the engine control unit.


granted, it may have been confusing the way i typed it. i agree he would need the transmission control unit, not the engine. I work for toyota and everything is an "electronic control module/unit" so parts I deal with on a daily basis would be "Headlight ECU" and "Body ECU" I typed ATX ECU out of habit, but I did mean transmission control unit, yes.



additionally, there's benefits to running the TT harness, such as not having to wire resistors on the injectors.
good point.



i don't think you're an idiot. i think we all need to use the proper terms when discussing things such as this; because the ECU and TCU are two different computer modules. i salute your pioneering efforts with your hyundai. i do wish that there was work done with the mtx> atx realm for our cars.

thanks for the kind words.

[GTOJOE]

i never said there was an atx awd tt. that said, the awd atx is a very capable transmission, as there are several DSM's who are using it and have faster 1/4 runs than the current 3/s world record--so take that for what its worth. there's a LOT of talk from people who have never used one of these transmissions about "how it might not hold up". do me a favor, if you don't have FACTUAL DATA on it...stop being a skeptic. there has been only ONE person who has had a consistent failure with it, and he was putting down > 800whp at the time.

I think you need to calm down. My coment was aimed at the OP not at you as he refered to it as a JDM VR-4 ATX. I was simply letting him know there was no such thing and the the box MAY not handle the power and that he MIGHT need to beef it up if running a modified TT engine. I know the boxes are quite strong but IIRC the drive shafts are much thinner than the VR-4/TT shafts.

[IPD]

the driveshaft is virtually identical to the 6-speed driveshaft; only the nipple that fits into the transfer case is different. i'm sure if someone were so inclined, they could probably rig the 6-speed xfer case guts to work with an awd atx. i've never heard of anyone sheering off a driveshaft nipple though--so i don't think it's a big problem.

sorry if i'm crotchety. i'm mad at life lately.

[DocHoliday]

Random question. How many gears does the 3/S ATX have?

[TUFFTR]

Four.

[colt45 gto]

bad idea! as said previously its going to be more hassle than enough.

the JDM ATX is made of jelly which is worse than what the MTX's are made of. you wouldn't get it to work or it will not work very well at all.

you will need....
peddle box
shifter and cables
TCU
full wiring harness
ATX and TC
intermediate shaft
prop shaft
going from 6 spd to 4spd auto you will need rear diff too.

after all this you will have to sit and reconfigure the wiring for the ECU because its a different pin out.

[IPD]

bad idea! as said previously its going to be more hassle than enough.

the JDM ATX is made of jelly which is worse than what the MTX's are made of. you wouldn't get it to work or it will not work very well at all.

you will need....
peddle box
shifter and cables
TCU
full wiring harness
ATX and TC
intermediate shaft
prop shaft
going from 6 spd to 4spd auto you will need rear diff too.

after all this you will have to sit and reconfigure the wiring for the ECU because its a different pin out.

more misinformation. of course, colt has me on ignore because i had the audacity to call him out on spreading the bullshit "backpressure myth"--so he cant' see a damn thing i posted.

i'll petty much go out on a limb here and guess that colt's never actually driven, much less owned an awd atx 3/s--let alone one that's turbocharged. as i've said over and over, its the same mechanical hardware as the dsm awd atx. i'll take a person with years of experience with dsm's over colt's hearsay. so take all this "advice" people are throwing at you with a grain of salt. i myself am one of the few 3/s owners in the world with an awd atx tt, and i'd like to think that entitles me to having a bit more FACTUAL perspective on this than people who just spew whatever they feel like saying without having any real data or proof to go on--and rely in personal biased opinions instead. the "awd atx is jelly" is a load of horse manure.

as i said, the 6-speed rear is THE SAME. mine is off a 96 vr4 & the rear drivetrain hasn't been modified in any way. the jdm awd atx driveshaft bolted directly to it without modification. i'm also not sure what he means by "reconfigure ecu wiring". regardless, you have AEM, so you can pretty much have it communicate with the TCU in whatever way you'd like.

[colt45 gto]

you know nothing about me so you know nothing of what i have/haven't owned. same as i know nothing of you but put you in a bookworm catagory, you read more than you have experienced.!

whats more IPD your really starting to fucking piss me off, put me on ignore for the love of someone that gives a shit!

[IPD]

what's parked in my garage at this very moment? what's parked in yours?

now who has more experience on this subject?

[whitedragon]

JohnnyTurbo, you might want to PM xwire before you make any decisions.

[GTOJOE]

Don't know anything about the DSM ATX but the JDM ATX is a W4A33-1-UNQ & W4A33-1-UNQ1. Is this the exact same model?

[IPD]

Don't know anything about the DSM ATX but the JDM ATX is a W4A33-1-UNQ & W4A33-1-UNQ1. Is this the exact same model?

afaik, the usdm and jdm dsm awd atx's are the same (i'm certain the mechanicals are). the only significant physical difference between these and the 3/s is the bell-housing.

[green-lantern]

the driveshaft is virtually identical to the 6-speed driveshaft; only the nipple that fits into the transfer case is different. i'm sure if someone were so inclined, they could probably rig the 6-speed xfer case guts to work with an awd atx. i've never heard of anyone sheering off a driveshaft nipple though--so i don't think it's a big problem.



I know old thread

Couldn't somebody just swap the front spline from the auto AWD shaft and put it on the 6 speed shaft?

[IPD]

i'd love to see that done, actually. i'm confident it would work. evan and i only went the JDM import route, because i didn't feel like trying to blaze new territory on my DD. since i'll probably have either a vehiCROSS or a slk55 amg as a DD when i get back, i'm all about trying new shit.

[green-lantern]

You would think if the U joint was the same then it wouldn't be a problem at all.

[IPD]

everything IS the same, except the length of some shaft sections, and the nipple. the overall length is very, very close to identical.

[KeithMac]

I know old thread

Couldn't somebody just swap the front spline from the auto AWD shaft and put it on the 6 speed shaft?

I've seen it done but it was professionally welded..

Fastbikes / Elton on GTOOC has done a TT conversion to an Auto and the box looks more than man enough for the job!.

[BaadVR4]

Any competent driveshaft company can put whatever end you need on whatever shaft you want, provided the materials and diameters are compatible.

[green-lantern]

Milt, I was mainly wondering about the U joint. If it could be swapped in with a new one, no welding and stuff.

[IPD]

That's where I'm uncertain as well, Paul. I'm assuming those are press-fit, and if so...a good shop should be able to handle it.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

The stock ones are pressed in and the yokes are peened (crushed) to hold them in.

The peen needs to be reamed out, then the old joint pressed out. The holes then need to be reamed to the correct size for a new joint, then something to keep them in. Either they can me machined for a snap ring (which the factory doesn't have at all) or they can be tack welded in. The issue is they need to be centered in the yoke and if this off just a tiny bit you'll have a horrible vibration.