Project WDE Talon

[BigTyla]

Prelude

WARNING: This first post is story time. It is long. Skip this if you wish. I only included this to chronicle my journey in acquiring a project vehicle.

-----------------------------

When I started looking for a project vehicle, I was looking for something under $2000. I looked around a bit on eBay, Autotrader, local ads, and Craigslist. I wasn’t looking for a particular car. As a matter of fact, at first I was considering undertaking a restoration project, so I ended up eyeing cars like a 65 Falcon, a 70 Mustang, and a 79 10th Anniversary Trans Am. But then I had an epiphany while I was at work one day. My conscience started talking to me:

“Self, do you realize what you’d be getting yourself into buying an old car? You have no welding experience, no body work experience, you have never worked on a carbureted engine in your entire life, and you want to buy a 45+ year-old car to get your feet wet?

“Why don’t you get something that you are more familiar with? Get a car that you won’t be afraid to break or mess something up on. Get a car with parts that are dirt cheap to track down. Plus, you’ve always wanted to go faster. Sure you could put a big engine in one of these old cars, but you wouldn’t want to take your nice restored car down to the quarter-mile strip too often would you? And have you seen an old-school muscle car try to autocross? It’s not pretty.”

My conscience was right. Jumping head-first into such a massive restoration project was not at all practical, not just in terms of my lack of experience in such matters but also from a fiscal point of view. I needed something that I could beat on regularly. Something that didn’t need a lot of body work. Something that I could sand down, throw a decent coat of paint on, wrench on the engine a little, and have it running in no time. So I started looking at a different breed of vehicle. I browsed around for a couple of weeks for vehicles that needed a little work for around the same $2000 budget, and I found a couple of 300ZX TTs, a few Mustangs, a C4 Vette, etc. These cars interested me, but nothing really popped out at me as being the ONE. Then, I stumbled upon two ads in the same day: 1G DSMs. Cheap, ugly, huge aftermarket, highly advanced platform, and can turn in ridiculous acceleration numbers with very few mods.

Brilliant.

Both were turbo models, but one was a FWD.

“FWD?!?! More like wrong wheel drive! My 3000GT was FWD, but now that I have experienced the fun of not-FWD in my 350Z I’m never going back down that road!”

So I took a look at the AWD model. It was a 91, had an extensive report from what seemed to be a pretty knowledgeable owner, and appeared to be in decent shape from the pictures. He said he’d throw in some extra parts as well. Based on the knowledge in his ad, I could tell he was familiar with the DSM platform, so I thought I might be able to track down this car. I used the links of the photos to track his forum posts, and they were consistent with what he was saying. He had rebuild the motor and done a few modifications but was having trouble tracking down a rough idle issue. Eventually he lost interest due to buying another DSM project and decided he wanted to get rid of his 1G. I called him up and asked to meet him the very next day. He gave me his address which was about 40 minutes south of where I lived and his house number in case I needed to reach him. He said that his cell phone service in the area was spotty and that many GPS devices have a hard time finding his residence, so he said I should call him when I get to the county road. Given that information, I should have known what to expect when driving my 350Z down to see this car, but I had no idea just how bad it’d be.

I get to within one mile of his place and make a turn on the county road and give him a call. He gives me basic directions and I begin my trek. The road I was going down was pleasantly paved, so I figured I’d be in the clear.

I could not have been more wrong.

About a quarter-mile into my journey, the paving ends. It’s dirt. I see a red barn he was talking though, so maybe I had already reached my destination. I drive down to the barn and I’m met with a dead end, so I park the Z in the dirt. I see a couple of men standing outside the barn and figure they might be related. They’re both wearing overalls and boots and have about 30 teeth between the two of them. Basically, they looked like Alabama fans. They are looking at me quite puzzled, a look I would expect driving a 350Z down a dirt road to a barn in the middle-of-freakin-nowhere. I walk up to them and ask for the guy, and they have no clue who I’m talking about.

“Guess I was supposed to take that turn 100 feet back,” I say to myself. “But wait, there wasn’t dirt back there. That was gravel.

“…crap.”

I call the guy to make sure I’m around where I need to be. He says he knows where I am and tells me to go down the gravel road and it will take me to his house.

So here I am in this 350Z, driving down this gravel road. There are no inclines for the first 200 yards, and all of a sudden I see a 90s Saturn sedan behind me. He’s going quite a bit faster than I am, and I’m thinking to myself “I hope you don’t expect me to go as fast in this 350Z that’s driving 2 inches off the ground!” Then, disaster strikes.

Scraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaape. A damn bump in the gravel road rubs up against my undercarriage, making a quite unpleasant sound. I keep an eye out for more bumps and find plenty of them, taking them as slowly as humanly possible but still managing to catch a scrape or two, praying the sound I’m hearing is not my exhaust being totally destroyed. The road begins to twist and decline and I'm cringing as I go down the road, reminding myself that I have to take the same path home. After avoiding all those landmines, I finally get to the guy’s house. There’s a barn straight ahead so I pull in front of it. The guy behind me pulls ahead of me to park. It’s him.

We get to talking for awhile. I ask him all the basic questions, and then I ask him some more advanced questions related to his posts on the forums that he doesn’t know I’ve read. Everything he tells me is consistent with his posts, which reassures me he is legit. I take a look around the car, in the interior, and under the hood. The body is in good shape, the engine is all together, and the interior looks great for being 20 years old.

“This is the car.”

[BigTyla]

I am excited to begin working on my project Talon I recently acquired and thought I would share my experiences with you all. This is the first large-scale project I have ever undertaken, as the most involved task I had ever done on a car previously was a twin turbo swap on my FWD auto 3000GT, which was not easy by any means, but not nearly as full-scale as other projects you will find.

So what was my motivation for getting this car? What are my plans and goals?

This will be a budget build. Yeah, I know what you’re thinking. EVERYONE says that and then one day they go crazy and spend tons of money on stuff and sooner or later their so-called budget build becomes this expensive, crazy, no-turning-back monster. Rest assured when I tell you I am dead serious about this. I don’t have a maximum number, but whenever I have an option to buy X or Y or Z, I will favor the option with the most bang for the buck. I will also be doing all of the work on my own, which will save a ton of money. I bought this car because I knew I could achieve respectable performance from this car for very little monetary value. I also knew it would be a great platform for me to hone basic skills like body and paint work, engine tuning, welding, etc. I also knew it would be a great car to become a better driver in. I have very little driving experience outside of a few trips to the drag strip and a couple of days at a local autocross. I’d like to change that.

I’d be happy with a car that has the potential to run mid to high 11s in the quarter. Notice I said potential because I guarantee I won’t be able to drive this car to its full potential given my lack of track experience. I don’t mind that. This car is for learning.

I’ll first give a brief status report on the Talon to give you an idea of what I’m dealing with. It is a 91 TSi AWD with a manual transmission. I bought the car in February 2011 for $1200 the very day I saw it. It was to be a Valentine’s Day present from my wife (thanks honey). It was not running but was mostly together with only a few missing turbo pieces here and there (coolant and oil feeds, banjo bolts, j-pipe, mounting hardware). The seller threw in an extra transfer case, transmission, a 16g turbo, and a slew of miscellaneous extra parts in the deal. VR4Rob and VR4Dani helped me tow it home by driving their truck down and putting the car on a trailer I rented. I followed them to my place and they helped me roll the car into my detached garage (thanks you two!).

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/talon1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/talon2.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/talon3.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/talon4.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/talon5.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/talon6.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/talon7.jpg

[mb3000]

Subscribed.

[IPD]

sorry, tyla. i've never forgiven you for selling your 3/s to the biggest assclown this side of steve68.

[BigTyla]

sorry, tyla. i've never forgiven you for selling your 3/s to the biggest assclown this side of steve68.

Well he DID finally pay me the rest of the money he owed me. :)

Another post coming as soon as I host the pics.

[BigTyla]

That night I began thinking of a name for the project. Every project needs a name, right? I thought of some different names, but a lot of them had been used before or just weren’t cool enough. Before I went to bed, I was sitting in my office working on the computer. I looked away from the monitor briefly and saw my bottle of Gentlemen’s Jack my father-in-law gave me for Christmas. He had it engraved with my name and the phrase “War Eagle,” referring to my alma mater and lifelong favorite team. Then I thought for a second. The car is an Eagle Talon. The cheer is “War Eagle” or “War Damn Eagle” depending on your age and your mood at the time. “War Damn Eagle Talon” has a nice ring to it. And so it was. This is Project WDE Talon.
The day after getting the car home I began cleaning it out. The interior was in good shape but it was filthy from dirt and it had a lot of stuff thrown inside of it such as the center console, an extra set of wrap-around wings, a/c vents, a glovebox, vicegrips, pliers, CDs from Linkin Park, Insane Clown Posse, and Metallica’s “…And Justice For All,” 48 cents in change, an old pack of cigarettes, a lighter…all sorts of goodies. The only thing I didn’t find was an ECU, which meant I’d have to add it to the list of parts needed to get the car running.

Life got pretty busy for me for the following month so I just took my time removing some of the body parts to investigate the overall shape of the car. By the middle of March I had removed the radiator, front bumper (which had a Craftsman ratchet wrench with an extension and 10mm socket dropped down it in the past), headlights, front wipers and trim, wrap-around wing, rear wiper, antenna, and rear trim pieces.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/dirty_interior.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/dirty_trunk.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/hatch_nowiper.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/nospoiler3.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/nospoiler2.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/nospolier1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/nofront.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/rust1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/rust2.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/rust3.jpg

A little dirty…okay, VERY dirty. But only a few small rust spots were found and they were all thankfully only on the surface. Most notable was that the front driver’s side fender was a little misaligned. It appeared it was once removed and then put back on improperly since it popped every time I opened the driver door. As a result, some of the paint around this area had cracked and surface rust began to form. It shouldn’t be a big deal to fix this though.

[BigTyla]

Now that I had found that the body really wasn’t in bad shape, I decided to move along to the engine to see exactly what I’d need to try to get it to run. I started by attempting to mount the 16G on the exhaust manifold and O2 housing. The turbo did not come with the exhaust housing studs, so I had to improvise. I remembered that I had a spare 9b that I was going to swap into my 3000GT to replace an old leaky one, but I ended up selling the car before I swapped it in. I removed the studs and bolts from the 9b exhaust housing and put them on the 16G, then slid the 16G onto the O2 housing. Now all I needed was some bolts to hook the turbo up to the exhaust manifold. This requires REALLY long bolts, so I took a trip to Lowe’s and tracked down some lengthy metric bolts with the same size and pitch and threw them on. Perfect fit!

Afterward, I hooked up the intake and stepped back to see what else was missing. I noticed a missing pipe for the BOV outlet to route air to the intake. I also noticed missing banjo bolts for the coolant feed and return lines. One coolant feed line and an oil feed line was missing completely. There was no j-pipe to mate the intercooler pipe to the turbo compressor outlet. There was also a bung in the downpipe that did not have a plug. It must have been for a wideband or EGT since the stock O2 sensor was already in the O2 housing. Other than that everything appeared to be in order, so I started doing some research on thread and pitch specs for the hardware I needed. In the mean time, I searched for deals on an ECU. I ended up winning an eBay auction for a 91 non-EPROM ECU for cheap. Ideally I would have went with EPROM, but eventually I will go with DSMLink and they will convert your ECU to EPROM for under $100, so after factoring that in with the good deal I got I will actually break even compared to just buying an EPROM ECU at typical market price. I also bought a j-pipe from DEJON Powerhouse with a bung for a boost controller. They offer a reasonable price for a stock replacement, so it’s not worth cheaping out and buying an eBay one for $5 or $10 less.

After figuring that out, I thought up a plan of attack on how to route my lines and bought the hardware I needed to get the job done. I ended up ordering some Earl’s AN to Metric adapters along with some Swivel-Seal fittings. I knew I’d need some stainless steel lines to handle the hot temperatures around the turbo but put off purchasing them for the time being. I’m almost positive I have some extra -6 AN lines lying around my parent’s garage so next time I visit them I’ll have to rummage around. For now I’ll just use some 3/8” super stock hose I have for mock-up purposes.

Here's an engine shot:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/engine.jpg

JBWelded bolt blocking off an oil passage. WTF?!?!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/jbweld_lol1.jpg

Trunk shocks are shot, so here is my ghetto solution:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/ghetto_trunk_shock.jpg

I set up my old computer in here for internet and music.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/comp.jpg

My wife got me a compressor for Christmas, but I have not yet fired it up.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/compressor.jpg

[PMP]

awesome project-subscribed.
i laughed looking at your pics of the interior, it seems like i always find the really crazy shit in the dsm's.

[VR4Rob]

I've got a box of pretty much all of the soft rubber IC piping out of a TT 3/S if you need some or all of it FYI. Got it running yet??? :D

[BigTyla]

I've got a box of pretty much all of the soft rubber IC piping out of a TT 3/S if you need some or all of it FYI. Got it running yet??? :D

I'll have to meet you this weekend to get that. I need some to route my BOV to my intake.

I will be attempting to crank the car this weekend.

[11secondFWD]

If you need any help let me know. I just got done redoing my talon and taking it to the track with success. I also have rebuild a couple 4g63s and have done almost everything you can do to a dsm. Its funny because we both started on the same thing and now are back on the same project.

I did a TT engine swap in my ATX 94 3000gt SL back in high school (6 years ago) and I learned everything from that car since it was never done before. Then you ended up doing the same thing, but I stayed with my n/a ecu until I swapped to the awd 5 speed tranny. But it was good experience and I learned wiring, turbo swaps, ect.

Now I have had 4 talons since then and I have done a lot with them. They are fun cars and cheap to go fast. I look forward to seeing you build. If you havent seen my two threads they might have some valuable info in them but I think you know enough to do a lot on your own. I am going for 10s tomorrow on my billet evo3 16g tomorrow.

I currently have 2 awd autos (91 and 92). The 91 is getting a full built engine rebuild and a has a fp 3575 turbo (t67 compressor with gt37 turbine wheel). My 92 is my fast spooling great torque fun street car. It is amazing what the little turbos can do. The stock engine is great too.

[11secondFWD]

I have a eprom conversion ecmlink v3 and it works great. I love tuning with it, it is so easy. For the 4 turbo bolts, the stock ones are real cheap on stm or fp websites. THe hardware store work ok but I have had alot of them break and flake. But you should definitely get the proper OEM lock washers or the turbo will keep coming loose. It happens to my one car all the time before I finally ordered them. I would also use a one piece stainless steel gasket. They work so much better than the oem MLS one. All the MLS I have used crack apart and fall to pieces.

Gasket.
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts (http://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=17335&cat=0&page=1)

All the way at the bottom are the lock washers. Regular ones will not work for long I promise.
STM: DSM TURBO KITS | TURBOS | GASKETS | OIL LINES | FITTINGS (http://streettunedmotorsports.com/dsm/dsm_turbos.htm)

I have spare stuff too if you need any of the stock stuff. I have some pipes, 12 450cc injectors, fuel rails, tons of little stuff I replaced. Plus I have stripped 2 cars so I might have some interior pieces you need.

I scraped a car too, and have stock doors, hatch, molding.

[BigTyla]

Good info. I'll definitely be getting lock washers as I am pretty uneasy about using just these bolts on the turbos right now. I got the Felpro gasket kit from O'Rileys for now. I'll just use it until it leaks and then throw on a stronger one, but I bet the gasket will outlast this 16G I have as it is supposedly from eBay! :( We will see.

One thing I need to take care of is the sunroof. I'd like to get rid of it somehow. Maybe fab up a piece to fill it in?

[11secondFWD]

Do you have a pic of the 16g? Ebay is easy to tell. I used a felpro headgasket before and they do fine. I even use the oem composite on my higher hp cars. I just get good head studs to keep it in place. The block needs to be decked and perfect for MLS or there will be problems. I am running 11.1 @ 30+psi and it is perfect with an oem composite hg that is 53 bucks. I have arp L19 head studs though. But felpro is very close to oem.

As far as the sun roof, I dont know. You could just get metal and rivet it in or find a piece to fit i guess.

[BigTyla]

I took a pick of the 16G today and I'll try to upload it tomorrow. I had to take the exhaust housing off to install one of my fittings in the oil passage so I got a nice look at the insides. :)

I tried installing one my my AN to metric adapters into the water tube today. I had the right size and pitch but unfortunately I didn't realize that it required fine threads. I ended up busting the threads on the Earl's fitting. $5 down the drain right there, and Earl's doesn't make fine-threaded adapters. An NPT fitting won't work here either. It's a M16 x 1.5 fine thread.

I might have to take the damn pipe off and retap it to a size that makes sense. I have a couple of 1/2" NPT to -6 AN fittings lying around. I was just trying to avoid taking the water pipe off. :p

I installed my turbo today for mock-up purposes. I wanted to see how I was going to end up routing my lines. Also wanted to figure out how to route some of my vacuum lines.

Went to VR4Rob's place today and traded him an intake plenum gasket for some of his intercooler pipes. I was able to use one of the rubber pipes to route my BOV exit to my intake pipe.

Overall, I feel today was fairly productive. But if I can't tap the water pipe with it on the engine I'm going to have to remove the turbo again. Thank goodness this isn't a 3S or I'd be really unhappy about that. :D

[11secondFWD]

Are you not using the stock water lines? Or did I miss something? LIke are they altered? If the water return was messed up couldnt you have just got a new one? LIke this
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts (http://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=20762&cat=957&page=1)

[11secondFWD]

For the hatch struts I use a pair of vice grips. I keep them in the trunk, they are smaller than the wood. Just lift trunk and put vice grips on the silver shaft right underneath the black strut assembly. It will never fall and cant slip or get knocked loose when removing stuff from the trunk. JUs thought I would share my ghetto solution to crappy trunk shocks. lol

Or you could buy these..

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts (http://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=23334&cat=1656&page=1)

[BigTyla]

Are you not using the stock water lines? Or did I miss something? LIke are they altered? If the water return was messed up couldnt you have just got a new one? LIke this
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts (http://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=20762&cat=957&page=1)

One coolant line was missing completely and the other one was fubar (twisted, bent, kinked). No banjo bolts were in there. I hate banjo bolts anyway, and I really don't like hard lines, so I decided to make SS lines since they are a lot easier to work with.

ExtremePSI has everything. I had them bookmarked already but I didn't realize they had all that stuff!

[11secondFWD]

Yea man they have all the oem stuff. They have almost anything you need, have it in stock, and it has never taken more than 2 days to get anything to my house. Yea I just replaced that hard line on my other talon. It was kinked too. SS braided is much better. Good luck on the fittings.

[BigTyla]

Thanks man. Off to Harbor Freight tomorrow for some NPT pipe taps. :p

[BigTyla]

Going to work on the car a little this weekend.

I haven't looked into what it will take to remove the water pipe yet. Wondering how difficult/time-consuming it will be. Really want to try to start it by Sunday but won't rush to make it happen.

[19Eclipse90]

The water pipe on a 1G is a piece of cake. There is one bolt holding it to the block, an o-ring keeping it snug at the water pump, the turbo coolant return line (which you have off already), and a hose for the oil cooler return line on water-cooled applications (which it appears you will have).

[11secondFWD]

It is also attached to the heater core hose and it has a loop that a tranny bell housing bolt goes through. But still it is very easy to remove.

[19Eclipse90]

True. And the throttle body. :bigthumb:

[BigTyla]

True. And the throttle body. :bigthumb:

Previous owner did coolant delete on throttle body. :)

Thanks for the info.

[BigTyla]

Well I wasn't able to find time to work on the car this weekend. Probably won't be able to do much next weekend either since my in-laws will be visiting. Bummer.

[BigTyla]

Apparently my SS braided hose at my old place decided to grow legs and walk out because they are nowhere to be found. Guess I'll have to shell out some money to get about 10 feet of -6 AN hose. I'm going to use regular hose for now though. I want to get the measurements perfect before I buy the SS hoses so I don't end up with a lot of extra material.

I did aquire some aluminum intake pipes I had lying around my old place. Those might come in handy. :DevilSmile:

I've also been keeping a list of parts I buy and their costs so the build cost remains transparent. If I remember correctly, I'm currently just under $300 spent.

[BigTyla]

I was able to work on the car for a couple of hours today. My in-laws were over this weekend so I wasn't able to do much, but I hope to get a lot done next weekend.

I couldn't find my point-and-shoot to take pictures so I used my Droid instead. TBH the picture quality is probably better from my Droid. :p

When I last left my car, I had put everything together except the coolant lines. The intake pipes were all installed as a mock-up to make sure everything was in its proper place. I discovered that the BOV pipe I had made was a little too tall and was rubbing right on the water outlet so I cut a small piece off for clearance.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/038.jpg

Everything looked good, so I took the intake pipes and turbos back off again to take off the water pipe on the block.

I was able to pull off the water pipe. Didn't take too long, but the rubber hoses connected to it were pretty stubborn. The inside of it is nasty. I'm going to try to clean that up a little. Upon inspection of the outlet for the turbo coolant return line, it appears I'll be able to tap it with a 3/8" NPT tap. I still don't see why the Earl's fitting I ordered didn't work. The threads look to be the same compared to the old bolt. Oh well.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/041.jpg

Since I had a little bit of extra time, I decided to get started with something else I had on my mind.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/039.jpg

I hate ABS. It is a terrible contraption, especially on the early 90s vehicles. Plus, on the DSM it takes up a large amount of space in the engine bay. Time for it to come out.

The non-banjo lines would not come out, so I cut them. They were no match for my shears. I'll be replacing them with compression fittings and I'll connect the lines with union tees to maintain functionality without having to get a non-ABS proportioning valve.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/040.jpg

So much more room now!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/042.jpg

I took out the extra brackets used to hold the ABS as well. Saved even more room doing that. I'd say the entire assembly weighed about 15 pounds so the weight savings isn't huge, but the gain in space is awesome and I won't have to worry about the ABS negatively affecting my braking performance.

[BigTyla]

Well needless to say I won't be working on the car this weekend. We won't have power for at least a week so my wife and I had to travel south so she can take her final exam online in a couple of days.

I got in late last night. Hit a lot of traffic on the way and also had to wait 1.5 hrs to get gas due to the huge wait line. But I did get home and I'm going to look around my parents' garage for various parts. My dad said he knows my old 3S n/a rotors are still lying around in there somewhere. That's a popular upgrade for 1G DSMs. :D Hopefully he overlooked those SS Braided lines and I end up finding those too!

[BigTyla]

Well I did not find the SS braided lines but I did find the n/a 3S brakes! They were really rusty so I cleaned off the bad rust with rust remover and will get them resurfaced. I'm considering painting the rotor hats black now that they've been cleaned off. I just need some n/a 3S front calipers to go along with these rotors.

[BigTyla]

I'm not sure when I'll get to work on the car again. We still don't have power so I'm still staying with my parents 300 miles away! We have a vacation planned near this area at the end of this week so we might not be home again until the 17th!

I've been doing a lot of looking around at other people's builds and am gathering some pretty sweet ideas. Hopefully I can incorporate them into this low-cost build.

I'm STILL debating on whether or not I should go wingless. I saw one build last night without a wing and it looked pretty baller. The weight savings would be most welcome, too.

I already know what color I'm going to paint the car as well as what materials will be used. I'm keeping it a secret though. ;) I think it will be a ton of fun.

[11secondFWD]

Sorry I never got a wingless pic, but my video and launch pic are wingless but I dont know how much you can see. The ABS is crappy and does take up room. I used a STM abs delete kit but that was like 150 bucks. But from my last part out I do have a non abs prop valve I will sell for pretty cheap. I know they are harder to fine but I dont see me ever needing it because I dont think mine will ever go bad. Let me know if you would like it. Here is a pic of a 1ga without a wing. It is the guy who is going to be my competition this year at the shootout for DST class. If you had a 1gb like me I would say do not do it unless you really like the look because my wing weighed less than 2lbs total. This guy says his 1ga weighed 16lbs though so that is a decent savings. Prep work for chasing 16G records - DSM Forums (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/398738-prep-work-chasing-16g-records.html)

[BigTyla]

Thanks, I'll let you know about the prop valve. I'd love to have an adjustable one but I don't know the first thing about tuning those much less installing them.

The drawback to leaving the wing off is having to fill all those holes! I don't have a welder and I don't know how to weld. It's a decision that doesn't have to be made at this time though.

[BigTyla]

Got the calipers in for my brake upgrade. Going to give them a rust cleaner bath and paint them up. Also cleaned up the front rotors. I need to have them turned.

I need to tap an NPT hole in the water tube and get an NPT fitting on there. I should also do this for the water housing for optimal fit, getting rid of the nipple. My 3/8" hose refuses to fit over it.

SS braided lines and fancy fittings are not good for budget builds!!! :D But they are totally necessary if you are getting rid of the hard lines on the turbo. The damn things get HOT.

Hopefully the motor starts okay. I'm not worried about it being 100%, I just want to make sure it actually runs. I'll worry about tuning it in the later stages. If everything turns out okay I'll move on to getting the car painted.

[wingnut]

nicely done sir...

...chiming in because i have a 1G ECU for sale that was reworked with new caps and burned for evo 560 injectors...all to run my big 16G turbo.

i also have ported exhaust manifold and O2 housing (by slowbow if i recall correctly) on my shelf that i have no use for anymore ;)

[BigTyla]

I have the ECU covered but if I need the ported items I'll let you know.

[VR4Rob]

Don't go wingless.

Does it run yet???

[Blackmount]

Keep the wing. The 5 piece talon wing u have is severely rare, also beautiful. I got a butt load of dsm parts and a running but not driving parts car. Let me know if interested.

[wingnut]

I have the ECU covered but if I need the ported items I'll let you know.

roger that sir...

...and i say go wingless unlike the other yahoos :D

[BigTyla]

Don't go wingless.

Does it run yet???

I'm going to Harbor Freight to pick up a tap handle and a 1/2" drill bit. If I can get this water pipe tapped I can try to start it this weekend.

You are welcome to come over and help...and drive over the VR4 so I can fap. :P

BTW I voted for you on that site. You are destroying everyone right now.

Blackmount - if I need anything I'll hit you up. I'm sure I'll run into something eventually.

[NOMIEZVR4]

DSM's are awesome cars. Ive had six of them myself, and all of them were a blast to build/drive. Good Luck on the project, they are super easy to make fast for cheap!

[VR4Rob]

I'm going to Harbor Freight to pick up a tap handle and a 1/2" drill bit. If I can get this water pipe tapped I can try to start it this weekend.

You are welcome to come over and help...and drive over the VR4 so I can fap. :P

BTW I voted for you on that site. You are destroying everyone right now.

Blackmount - if I need anything I'll hit you up. I'm sure I'll run into something eventually.

Awesome man, I'd love to come drink beer and curse at your car until it starts :lol:

But seriously... when are you planning on firing it up? My folks are coming up for Dani's bday on Saturday during the day but I'm free pretty much any time other than that.

[BigTyla]

Awesome man, I'd love to come drink beer and curse at your car until it starts :lol:

But seriously... when are you planning on firing it up? My folks are coming up for Dani's bday on Saturday during the day but I'm free pretty much any time other than that.

Yeah that's what Amber was telling me (about your parents). I don't Facebook creep like she does. :p

I picked up some useful parts from Harbor Freight today to help with tapping that hole in the water tube, as well as some wire brushes to clean it out. If I can get the pipe tapped successfully I can try to start it this weekend. Amber won't be here Friday-Sat since she's going to Birmingham so I can spend all my time in the garage. :p

The battery that guy gave me is dead as a doornail. Hopefully I can jump it off but if not I can pick up a new one under warranty. And if it still decides not to start I can begin a little body work and/or work on finishing the ABS delete. Sanding items were one of my acquisitions at Harbor Freight today. :)

[BigTyla]

Tapped the water pipe tonight. Going to the auto store to pick up a 3/8" NPT barb fitting tomorrow morning. Then I'll install the pipe, turbo, radiator, etc, fill it with fluid, and try to get it started!

[Alex3000gt]

Exciting!

[Blackmount]

needs more pictures

[BigTyla]

Got everything together and tried to jump the car off but it wouldn't start. I suspect the battery is having a problem holding a charge. Car was cranking but was too slow for the starter. Going to run to the parts store and have them check my battery.

I will be putting up more pictures at the end of the weekend. It's just hard to take pictures of a fairly stock engine bay and have them be somewhat exciting. There will be TONS more pics when I get to the body work.

[BigTyla]

The car is now running. Battery just needed a good charge.

The motor idled like total crap. This seems to fit in with the previous owner's problems. I turned the car off then turned the key back to the 'ON' position and heard this really weird clicking noise so I decided to check it out. Turns out to be the ISC. That probably explains the crappy idle. :p

VR4Rob is coming over tomorrow to help out. The brakes still need to be bled and the clutch pedal needs to be fixed. For some reason it hangs when you depress it and I heard that this is actually an issue with the 1Gs.

I'll throw a video up of the car running tomorrow if it starts again.

[BigTyla]

Well I forgot to get video of the car running, but no matter. It idles like crap. The ISC is fubar. The stepper motor isn't stepping! I'm wondering if I can salvage it but if not I'll look around for a used one. Turns out it shares the same part with the 3S!

Rob helped me out with a few things in the car like getting the exhaust sealed up. We found that the flange at the front of the downpipe was broken at one of the mounting points. I have a stock downpipe I can use in lieu of this crappy aftermarket one so it's not a big deal.

After Rob left I decided to start sanding the car down. Went with 60 grit and it did decent. I still need to do the sideskirts and front and rear bumper, then smooth it out with a lighter grit and then one more time with a fine grit.

I took some pics tonight. I'll put them up here as soon as Photobucket stops being crap.

[BigTyla]

Engine put together minus coolant lines for turbo:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/DSM004.jpg

n/a 3S front calipers to go with my n/a 3S front rotors:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/parts1.jpg

Sanding the car:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/DSM002.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/DSM003.jpg

[Alex3000gt]

Do you also need 3/S hubs or do the rotors and calipers fit with no modification?

[BigTyla]

No mods necessary. The 3S n/a rotors are direct bolt-on mods for the fronts.

[Blackmount]

No mods necessary. The 3S n/a rotors are direct bolt-on mods for the fronts.

This I can confirm. have the setup on my Talon.

[BigTyla]

I'm trying to think of the best approach for taking off these stickers on and above the sideskirts. I'm thinking my heat gun would be my best bet. I can just sand down the stuff on the rear bumper.

I know going with 80 grit is very aggressive but I know parts of this car have had multiple coats of paint. I'm block sanding the entire car so I have a lot of control over the amount of pressure I'm applying in certain areas. The driver's door was red originally from what I can tell. I am taking small portions of the car to bare metal. I'm pretty sure my driver's front fender is a lost cause because it looks like it was hit with a tack welder to fill up some holes it might have had before. I'm not sure that's something that body filler will be able to take care of. After I'm done with the 80 grit I'll go over everything again with 300. Then I'll clean, prime, and definitely seal it given the aggressive 80 grit I decided to start out with.

I'll be out of town this weekend so I won't be able to work on the car, but I'm going to try to get those calipers cleaned up and painted during the week. I also need to crack open that ISC again and inspect it in more detail. I also need to pick up some union tees and compression fittings to hook up the brake lines I hacked to get the ABS out. I might also try to track down a non-cruise control throttle cable. By the time I'm done with those two things the engine bay should look pretty tidy.

Oh, and I need to design a ground wire kit for this car! :D

[VR4Rob]

Progress!! I really didn't think it idled that badly... with a new ISC it should be good to go. Let me know when you're ready to get those brakes on.

[BigTyla]

Progress!! I really didn't think it idled that badly... with a new ISC it should be good to go. Let me know when you're ready to get those brakes on.

Shouldn't be too far down the road. I already have some stuff to clean the calipers so painting them should be straightforward. I need to get the rotors turned/balanced for sure and a set of new pads. O'Reilly can do that for me.

I'll probably get my ISC from someone on here. I'm not sure I have the credentials to post on dsmtalk or dsmtuners classifieds.

Hooking up a ghetto paint booth in that garage should be interesting. :D I'm probably going to take your advice and buy a second paint gun just for primer.

[Blackmount]

use a glass scraper. if you do it right, it won't dig into the paint or scratch it up. also look into Acetone (cuation may damage paint depending on what kind it is) and Goo-Gone. (paint safe) I also know windex Works great for window tint removal to get all the nasty glue off...maybe it will work on the stickers.

[BigTyla]

I have some goo-gone I can use. I'm wary of using acetone because I've seen what it can do to plexiglass and I'm not sure how different fiberglass will be!

Don't care about damaging the paint. I'm repainting everything anyway.

[terrets]

You can use Windex with a soft cloth and rub hard and it will work pretty good. Just dont use paper towel, itll tear the paper towel up..wont get far lol

Razors work to get the vinyl initially up, but be careful, you can cut into the paint ;).

I dont think acetone is bad for fiberglass.....If you dont go through the paint itll be fine. I think all acetone will take paint off Blackmount :) doesnt matter what "brand or kind". Cause acetone is acetone.

Depending on how old the stickers are, a heat gun with help you a bit. If its old, itll just break and rip so it kind of sucks trying to get off. Try and grab as big of piece and take your time, it may come off in one piece :D

And why are you buying a different paint gun for primer? A professional I know never used different ones..

[BigTyla]

And why are you buying a different paint gun for primer? A professional I know never used different ones..

Because the guns are cheap. :p Harbor Freight!

But you bring up another point. I need to test this gun before I spray with it to make sure it will be good enough. But I've heard a lot of good things about this gun even though I paid $10 for it.

[terrets]

Harbor Freight rocks! +1 lol

[BigTyla]

Harbor Freight rocks! +1 lol

Yep. I find myself taking a lunch break from work and driving down there every so often. :D

Last time I went, I had a nice conversation with the cashier. He asked what I was working on and I told him it was a DSM. He asked if it was a 1G and I said yes. He said, "Good, 2Gs are for girls. 1Gs look so much more muscular."

I LOLd.

[IPD]

Yep. I find myself taking a lunch break from work and driving down there every so often. :D

Last time I went, I had a nice conversation with the cashier. He asked what I was working on and I told him it was a DSM. He asked if it was a 1G and I said yes. He said, "Good, 2Gs are for girls. 1Gs look so much more muscular."

I LOLd.

rofl. imho, 97-98 talon > everything else. but what would i know.

[BigTyla]

I'm going to be home for the next four weeks, so I will have quite a bit of time to work on the car.

Things to do this month (in no particular order):
1) Finish sanding body
2) Clean/paint calipers
3) Install rotors and calipers
4) Fix pedal assembly
5) Bleed brakes
6) Paint car
7) Fix or replace ISC

[BigTyla]

Get ready for some updates this weekend!

[Alex3000gt]

Bump! Updates please. :)

[11secondFWD]

I hate 2gs. they are ugly, girly and not and suck to work on. The engine/ tranny mounts are different, the ball joints too, there are just no things I like about them. 1g all the way for me for dsms, but 3s is still my fav. I just pulled my engine redid the timing belt, and head gasket. And I am putting into my 100% factory street car. I am getting a fully built engine and using my fp3575 turbo with a new fmic kit and 2150 injectors, and high stall torque converter. I am hoping to get somewhere in the nines. Hopefully mid 9s by the shootout.

[IPD]

I hate 2gs. they are ugly, girly and not and suck to work on. The engine/ tranny mounts are different, the ball joints too, there are just no things I like about them. 1g all the way for me for dsms, but 3s is still my fav. I just pulled my engine redid the timing belt, and head gasket. And I am putting into my 100% factory street car. I am getting a fully built engine and using my fp3575 turbo with a new fmic kit and 2150 injectors, and high stall torque converter. I am hoping to get somewhere in the nines. Hopefully mid 9s by the shootout.

i'll give you everything but ugly. i like the 97-98 talons. a lot.

[Alex3000gt]

i'll give you everything but ugly. i like the 97-98 talons. a lot.


Same.

[BigTyla]

Bump! Updates please. :)

I've been slaving around my house for the past two days, but hopefully I can find some time to do what I've been planning for the Talon this weekend.

Sucks when you have more to do around the house than you realize.

[BigTyla]

I just pulled off the ISC to see if there was anything I could repair. The stepper motor appears to extend and retract easily after playing around with it a little bit. I measured the resistance between the pins and they all read at 35 ohms, which is about 2 ohms higher than suggested (28-33 ohms is recommended) but I think 35 is an acceptable value. I'm going to throw it back in the car and see if it will work again, but I'm not holding my breath.

Also going to get started on testing out this paint...:D

[BigTyla]

So the ISC is definitely bad. I'll have to get another one. I'll probably search for a used one around here.

Piddling with the ISC:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/TalonJune4001.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/TalonJune4003.jpg

I decided to try out some paint that I picked up yesterday. I wanted to make sure it was the paint I wanted so I picked up half a pint and decided to spray an extra fiberglass body piece I had lying around. This is a piece from the wrap-around spoiler.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/TalonJune4004.jpg

I sanded it down with 180 grit. Didn't try to get it perfect since this is just a color test.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/TalonJune4005.jpg

At the introduction of this thread I specified that this would be a budget build. Keeping that in mind, I decided to go for a paint that would fit that theme. What better choice than the infamous Rustoleum paint job!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/TalonJune4002.jpg

Well, this isn't Rustoleum, but the idea is the same. Valspar Satin Black should be a nice touch to this car. I won't have to worry about painting the door jambs and engine bay since the car is already black to begin with, and this satin finish ought to give the car a nice old-school look.

I mixed the paint with 3:1 paint to acetone, poured it in the cup for my paint gun, and laid it down.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/TalonJune4006.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/TalonJune4007.jpg

For only one layer and having laid it down so quickly without giving the piece a proper leveling out, I think it turned out pretty well!

[mb3000]

I have 2 tested good isc's from a 3/s. Let me know if you're interested.

[BigTyla]

PM sent.

[IPD]

i like the wraparound spoiler. i like it almost as much as i liked the one on the daytona hatchbacks.

[11secondFWD]

I was gonna say I have a ton of isc's I delete them on all my talons so I have like 4.

[BigTyla]

I snagged a couple from mb so I should be good for now. :D

I really need to get that pedal assembly figured out. I'm not sure if the previous owner completely fixed the notorious clutch pedal issue or not, and I don't have a welder so I can't fix it on my own if he didn't. Might have to pursue an alternative fix.

[11secondFWD]

Hey man did I ever post these for you of my car without a wing? Well here they are. I took them awhile back on my phone for ya and I dont think I ever posted them,
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/94atxvr2/376256342405_0_0.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/94atxvr2/376256060549_0_0.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/94atxvr2/376255900037_0_0.jpg

I do like with the spoiler better I think but it doesnt look too bad.

[BigTyla]

Thanks for posting those. I prefer the spoiler as well and I'll be keeping it on.

One problem I've run into though is that I took off the trim around the pillars and the hatch and many of the clips holding them broke. I can't find replacements anywhere. Any ideas?

[VR4Rob]

Give that DSM some JBWeld... DSMs love JBWeld.

[BigTyla]

They also love to have other DSM friends to sit next to. You can't have just one!

[BigTyla]

mb3000 - I received your ISCs today. Thanks for sending them out so quick!

Unfortunately, neither of them worked. I checked the resistance on the coils and all of them were within spec. I find it hard to believe that all three of my ISCs have bad plungers. When I last looked at O'Reilly's website they did not have one but I must not have looked hard enough because my recent searched showed they have one for $85. I might give that a go.

However, in piddling with the ISC I found another problem. Apparently a green wire is supposed to connect to the throttle body somehow. That wire was apparently cut. I found out it belongs to the IPS switch but my throttle body doesn't have an IPS switch. I'm going to try to find a stock one or find a way to make my own if that's even possible.

11SecondFWD - how did you delete all your ISCs from your cars and still keep them running well? DSMLink? I wanted to get the car running well on the stock setup before I went that route.

[BigTyla]

Upon further reflection I have realized my car has a 2g throttle body on it. However, I have an extra 1g throttle body handy. What is the point of a 2g TB in place of a 1g? I thought the 1g was better.

[IPD]

Upon further reflection I have realized my car has a 2g throttle body on it. However, I have an extra 1g throttle body handy. What is the point of a 2g TB in place of a 1g? I thought the 1g was better.

maybe it was cheap & available. :)

[BigTyla]

Yeah but he already had a 1G throttle body. The 1G is the best one to have.

I need to take that thing off and inspect. There could be a lot more to this idle problem than meets the eye.

[11secondFWD]

You do not need anything when you delete it. DMS link ect is not needed. The only thing id when it is cold you have to hold your foot on the gas til it warms up a little. Like a min max in freezing temps. Because you delete the fiav and isc. I use a 1g TB, with fiav/isc delete plate, and replace the shaft seals. It works great. The little wire should go to the top of the tb on the idle switch.
When you delete it all it runs great other than the starting thing. It doesnt idle surge or do any funky things they like to do.

[BigTyla]

I wonder if there's a way to make your own idle switch. I've searched but can't find anything.

I'm still at a loss about the 2G TB! I'm going to swap the 1G in when I get the chance.

[11secondFWD]

With dsmlink you can simulate an idle switch. Ya I dont see a reason not to use a 1g TB.

[tabasco122]

I was reading about this when I was considering removing the aicv on my sr20. One guy with a fwd sr20 took apart the stock iacv and hooked up a servo inside that he controlled with a switch in the cabin for cold starts.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[BigTyla]

I was reading about this when I was considering removing the aicv on my sr20. One guy with a fwd sr20 took apart the stock iacv and hooked up a servo inside that he controlled with a switch in the cabin for cold starts.

I was considering this with my idle switch. Since it is grounded when the throttle is closed, I could rig a simple switch to ground the wire when I want.

Of course, I would still need a working ISC after the fact. But I'm wondering if the idle switch wire not being properly grounded is confusing the ISC and causing it to malfunction. I think that's wishful thinking but I won't rule it out.

Guess the best thing to do is to ground it to the chassis when I get home and plug the ISC in again and see if it reacts differently. So far, all three of them have just twitched back and forth as if the arm was stuck.

[tabasco122]

Good to see its runninng though. Last time I checked the thread you had just gotten it.

Also, just the other day I found my complete never installed ground kit from 2007 lol. Never made it on the car.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[BigTyla]

Haha that has happened to a few people actually (parts never getting installed)!

I am fortunate that the car starts and runs. Now I just need it driveable! But I'm really itching to lay down some paint. Grounding that wire won't take long at all so when I'm done with that I'll finish sanding the body. Then I need to rinse it off, put some primer on the areas with bare metal, and start painting. I'm debating on whether I should even try to salvage this messed up front driver's side fender. I'll probably just try to find a used one that doesn't need so much work.

[AdamVR4]

So the ISC is definitely bad. I'll have to get another one. I'll probably search for a used one around here.


What made you conclude that it was bad?

[BigTyla]

What made you conclude that it was bad?

Tested it. :p I took the ISC out of the throttle body and turned the car on. It never homed. It just sat there twitching constantly the way a bad ISC would, instead of extending and retracting as shown in the video below. I ohmed all three ISCs out and they are within spec, but the stepper motors refuse to operate properly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7R3gf7SiAo

I did more body work on the car today. Since my car is two-tone it came from the factory with stickers that run along the sideskirts and the rear bumper to help blend in the color change. I had to peel them off with a heat gun and an exacto knife. Needless to say it was a pain in the ass. I also removed the AWD turbo stickers from the sideskirts and the Talon TSi label on the rear bumper. Car is clean and debadged now.

I'm going to need to sand down the body again with a finer grit paper, then hit a couple areas with filler. I dug into one of the sideskirts pretty good when I was trying to remove the AWD Turbo label before I smartened up and got my heat gun. It won't be hard to fill though.

[BigTyla]

Last night I decided to work on the body a little more. There was residue left by the stickers and tape I took off last week, so I needed to get that off. It was a massive pain to do. I used Goo Gone to loosen it up and tried to get it off with a towel as normal but it wouldn't budge, so I ended up having to sand it down after hitting it with a little more Goo Gone. Once I got it low enough with 80 grit I hand-sanded with 180 so I could feel when the body was evened out. Next step is to wash the residue off the car and sand over it twice more with 300 grit, then hit a couple areas with filler and sand those down as well.

I also took off the front crash bar. It has some rusty areas on it I'd like to get cleaned up. It would be best to get it blasted so I can give it a nice paint job and put it back on. There are some other pieces I have off the car that need blasted as well so I might track down a sandblasting company in my area. Alternatively I could always buy my own blaster and rig up a sizeable cabinet to hold these parts (they are pretty long parts).

[VR4Rob]

Are you driving this thing yet??? :D I would have offered to help but I was doing the timing belt, water pump, plugs, etc. on the Legacy this weekend.

[BigTyla]

Are you driving this thing yet??? :D I would have offered to help but I was doing the timing belt, water pump, plugs, etc. on the Legacy this weekend.

I saw that you were working on that. When am I going to hear about your new acquisition? :Clap:

If you want to get technical, I drove the car yesterday. I put the key in, unlocked the steering wheel, and pushed it 20 feet out of the garage! I washed off the residue from the first two passes of 60 grit over the body so I could hit it with 200 grit a couple more times. The body is now as smooth as a baby's bottom except for the two areas I need to fill in. I'll take care of that this week when I'm not trying to make a new acquisition of my own. :w00t:

I have some pics from yesterday's work. I'll upload them when I get home. The 200 grit did a really good job of making my car look like it took a dive in a pool full of cocaine.

[BigTyla]

It occurs to me that I never uploaded pictures from my body work. I'll post them now!

Here's some pictures of the car after sanding with 200 grit. :D

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/003.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/004.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/005.jpg

Here is the bad fender I was talking about.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/006.jpg

I'm going to need to replace this whole fender eventually as it's going to be too much trouble to salvage, but for now it will have to suffice. Today I hit that fender with filler and sanded it down nice and smooth. It looks a lot better but it still isn't as nice looking as I'd like, plus it's pretty far out of alignment with the hood. There's a huge gap between the hood and both fenders that I'm going to have to try to remedy. I also filled the areas I managed to gouge while taking the stickers off. Being meticulous, I also filled a few small imperfections on the hood and the roof. After I let it cure, I hit it with 280 grit until I got it super smooth, then cleaned it off and primed it. Then I wetsanded the primer and got it as smooth as a baby's bottom. I can still feel tiny imperfections on a couple of places but I'm just not going to be able to get some of these pieces as nice as I'd like with the shape they are in. We'll see how this paint job is able to fill in the imperfections!

By the end of the night I had washed the car off (AGAIN!) and taped off some areas of the car in preparation for paint. All that's left is to cover the wheels, windows, and mirrors with paper and set up a makeshift paint booth and I'll be ready to lay down some paint!

[VR4Rob]

Doing any work this weekend? I need to tinker with something to keep the 3/S racecar pipe dream at bay :D

[BigTyla]

Im going to Ozark this weekend but I am going to start paint on Tuesday. I finished masking last Tuesday but held off painting it until I can get a box fan to properly vent the fumes.

[BigTyla]

Painting starts this week!

[BigTyla]

I have my garage ready for paint! Hung up some drop cloths today. Got them for $1 a piece at the Dollar Tree.

http://www.dollartree.com/assets/product_images/styles/large/975967.jpg

Here are some pictures of the car masked off. I split one of the drop cloths into four pieces to cover the wheels.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/002.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/001.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/003-1.jpg

I'm going to paint the front bumper, headlights, and three spoiler pieces later on in the build. They haven't been prepped well enough for me to be satisfied. It was pretty hot in my garage today (id estimate above 90 degrees) and by the time I was ready to paint I had to get ready to meet up with VR4Rob and VR4Dani so I stopped here. I'll make it cooler when I try to paint by putting on the a/c in my work garage (yes, I have a/c in my detached garage :D) as the directions say the temperature should stay below 90 degrees during paint. I already have some paint and thinner mixed 4:1 so when I find time to paint tomorrow it will be ready to pour. The plan is to give it an initial tack coat, then paint over that immediately and let it dry for four hours. Then I'll come back and spray on two more coats. My research has led me to believe this is the best course of action when spraying as opposed to rolling like so many others do with the Cheapo Rustoleum paint job.

[BigTyla]

Got the first coat of paint down a couple of hours ago. It's more like a coat and a half because I did 3/4 passes instead of 1/2, so I'll have to see what condition the paint is in after it dries and see how many more coats it will need.

I noticed I forgot to touch up a few areas of the body that were chipped after I painted over them. I'll have to keep a stronger eye out for imperfections the next time I paint a car.

[BigTyla]

After second coat:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/262001_10100309795693811_7007156_50730870_5107256_ n.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/264205_10100309795893411_7007156_50730878_6587237_ n.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/264632_10100309795409381_7007156_50730862_6491141_ n.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/267689_10100309796826541_7007156_50730917_2089032_ n.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/267726_10100309796437321_7007156_50730903_5579830_ n.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/270265_10100309796152891_7007156_50730890_2387781_ n.jpg

It's looking pretty good so far, but the next coat I lay down will be thinned much more. This was a 4:1 mix and I'm going to take it to 2:1 next time. The paint is so thick! It looks spotty in a few areas so I'm hoping the thinner mix will equal it out after a couple of passes with it.

The bad thing about satin black is that it brings out EVERY little imperfection in the body. I may have to go back on a few areas and sand them down, fill, and repaint, but we will see how these next couple of coats work out.

[BigTyla]

I kept telling myself this wasn't a show car and to ignore the imperfections in the body. Eventually, my anal side gave in and decided to sand the parts of the car I wasn't happy with. The satin black finish revealed a lot of spots that weren't sanded well enough, especially along the sides of the car where I peeled off the stupid stickers that blended in the two-tone paint. I spent two hours sanding both sides down with 200 grit and now I'm happy with trying to paint them again.

As for the rest of the body, I can see a lot of scratches that were left behind by the heavier 80-grit sanding I did. I guess the long time I spent sanding wasn't long enough to get the whole body evened out. This black paint doesn't help to hide them. I only wish the scratches were easy to see when the paint wasn't on! Live and learn. :D

[AdamVR4]

I'm sure the attention to detail now will make you happier down the road.

[BigTyla]

I'm sure the attention to detail now will make you happier down the road.

I'm sure it will, even with a crappy paint job. :D

[IPD]

I'm sure it will, even with a crappy paint job. :D

how can "attention to detail" and "crappy paint job" coexist in the same thought?

[BigTyla]

how can "attention to detail" and "crappy paint job" coexist in the same thought?

Because painting with Valspar doesn't exactly provide the highest quality finish.

[BigTyla]

Just laid down a fresh coat of paint thinned with about 15% water. I wish I had known that I needed to thin it this much before I laid down the first two coats because this coat laid down so easily! Of course, I'm sure the bottom coats will be more durable than this recent one so perhaps it was good that I didn't thin those down so much.

I'm interested to see the durability of this paint. At least for now I've saved my self quite a bit of money that I can instead put into "go fast" goodies.

To update you all on my thoughts for an upgrade path, I'm considering going with an E85 tune. There is a gas station 2 miles from my house that sells E85 and $2.50 race gas is a very appealing prospect to me. I'll be getting ECMLink with a wideband and an EGT to tune with. There is an EGT probe already tapped into my exhaust manifold but I'll have to tap an O2 bung in my stock downpipe as the aftermarket one that came with the car needs a new flange (piece of the flange is missing from one of the boltholes all the way to where the end of the flange would be). I'll also purchase some bigger injectors and a fuel pump since I'll need to dump a lot more fuel with E85.

Which reminds me: I wonder if this car still has the stock fuel pump. Hmmm...

[familyMAN]

where's the pics?

[Alex3000gt]

Looking good Tyler.

Glad to see you are being patient and taking your time. If it were me I would have already painted it with bad results.

[BigTyla]

where's the pics?

Ask and ye shall receive.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/032.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/029.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/030.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/031.jpg

I think I did a really good job with the rear emblem removal. :) There are still some visible scratches below the paint but I can live with that with this project. The next time I paint a car I'll know exactly how to do it though! Still need some of the trim pieces to be painted as you can see but that will be the last step in the build.

[HilbillyHomeboy]

Nice progress; looking really good. :)

Jeremy

[BigTyla]

Nice progress; looking really good. :)

Jeremy

Thanks! I'm eager to get back to more mechanical endeavours!

[Erron Spalsbury]

Looking great man!

[BigTyla]

Looking great man!

Thanks!

[BigTyla]

Now that most of the car is painted, I have to move back to trying to get the car in tip-top running condition. Some of it involves improving terrible engineering flaws. First on the list is fixing the dreaded 1G clutch pedal problem. There is a bracket that houses the clutch and brake pedal shafts in the Talon. Eventually the hole for the clutch pedal shaft becomes rounded off, causing the clutch pedal to not return completely after being depressed. You can imagine what kind of problems this would cause.

The previous owner said the clutch was exhibiting these problems and he was getting ready to fix it before he ended up deciding to quit the project. That means it's up to me to fix it. Unfortunately, this is one of the most painful maintenance jobs you could possibly do on the Talon, and my back and the foul words that came out of my mouth during the extraction process are a testament to that.

Since my dashboard was only being held on by two bolts, I decided to go ahead and take it out of the car to free up room. This would get the speedo cable out of the way so I didn't have to worry about maneuvering around it when it came time to take the pedal assembly out. After that, I dropped the steering wheel and removed the entire steering assembly. Then I had to lay down the seat and go head first under the console to extract the bolts around the pedal assembly. This was not fun, but thankfully I had some experience with this in a 3S so I knew what to expect. After being pinched a few times by the clutch and brake pedals dangling around and throwing a few tools around angrily, I finally got all the bolts out. Then I had to remove the brake fluid reservoir, unbolt the clutch master cylinder, then bo back under the dash and loosen the pushrods for the brake and clutch. Now the only thing keeping the pedal assembly on is the pushrods sticking out from their respective master cylinders. I was able to get it to clear the clutch rod but I can't get the brake master cylinder far enough from the firewall to get the pedal assembly to clear it. I ended up stopping for the night as dinner was ready so I will tackle it again when I find the time.

After the pedal assembly is out I'm going to weld the clutch shaft to the assembly so I don't ever have to repair it again. This is the typical fix for this in the DSM world. I will need to track down some replacement bushings as well. I might have to make a trip to Lowe's and substitute my own hardware for this.

[VR4Rob]

Are we ready to go to the track yet?? :D

[BigTyla]

As soon as I find time to work on this car, yes!

I might force myself to go out there and work on it Thursday night, household chores be damned. I have other obligations tonight as I have to entertain a grad school friend coming down for a job interview. :)

[BigTyla]

I was finally able to get out the pedal assembly and I confirmed that it was indeed bad. There was some slop in the pedal feel due to the top hole of the bracket rounding itself out which is so common on 1Gs. For a better idea of what I'm talking about, see 1G clutch pedal welding / bushing how to... - DSM Forums (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/156805-1g-clutch-pedal-welding-bushing-how.html).

The car came with another assembly that was already welded to fix the problem, but it's much more rusty so I'm going to give it a bath in some rust remover and paint the entire assembly to seal it from the elements. I also need to find a good bushing to use for the clutch master cylinder mounting bracket as it is also a source of bad pedal feel.

Trying to figure out anything else to fix while the dash is out of the car, but nothing comes to mind. I'll probably just vacuum all the dust and debris that has collected back there for the past 20 years.

[Roybatty]

Mebbe replace defogger vents? ;) they probably aren't as bad as the infernal 3s ones.

connected via tapatalk

[BigTyla]

Mebbe replace defogger vents? ;) they probably aren't as bad as the infernal 3s ones.

connected via tapatalk

Defogger vents are integrated into the dash, unlike the 3S vents which are clipped in. :D

[BigTyla]

Registered the car last week. Transferred the plate from my Z to the Talon, but when my renewal date comes (October) I'll be getting a different personalization. :)

Need to pick up a gallon of Evaporust to clean off the pedal assembly. Will probably pick some up tonight. I'd also like to get some rust off the steering column and brake master cylinder. I have a wire cup brush that I'll clean it up with and then I'll coat it with some black Rustoleum spray can paint. After all that gets done, I need to trace down some pedal covers and a shift knob. Then all I have to do is reinstall the dashboard and associated trim pieces, fabricate my SS oil and coolant lines, install them, hook up the stock downpipe, and fire it up. I'll worry about putting the front bumper and 3-piece wing on later. :p

[VR4Rob]

Don't you drive that car around without a front bumper son!

[BigTyla]

Don't you drive that car around without a front bumper son!

I think what I'll do is prep and paint the bumper and wing while the pedal assembly sits in that Evaporust. Seems like a good plan.

[BigTyla]

Progress!

Sanded down the front bumper and wing pieces. They are now ready for paint.

Took the radiator, turbo, water pipe, and water housing off to prepare them for SS line installation. The water neck already had a portion with a 1/2" NPT plug installed, so I didn't have to tap it! Of course, the pipe normally used for the turbo feed will still have to be tapped and plugged, but I'd rather used the pre-tapped threads than ones I create with my tap.

Speaking of taps, I'm having some trouble with the water pipe I tapped to 1/2" NPT. None of the Earl's 1/2" NPT adapters I have bought will fit into it. They all end up crossthreading. Oddly enough, any 1/2" NPT barb I get from O'Reilly Auto will work. Very odd. At first I figured it might have to do with thread coarseness but all NPT threads should be the same since it's a standard. I'm just going to get a 1/2" NPT barb at O'Reilly that this SS line will fit over and secure it with a hose clamp.

Also need to get my radiator mounts aligned properly. I can tell this car was once in a front-end collision. There's some damage to the radiator bucket and the a/c condenser sits in its support at an angle with the top closest to the front of the car. Will need to investigate further, especially for when I eventually go with a FMIC.

[BigTyla]

More progress!

Took time yesterday to clean up the rust on my steering column and pedal assembly. Used a wire cup brush to get what I could and submerged a small part of it in the Evapo-rust. I didn't get enough to cover the whole thing (O'Reilly's was out of stock on the gallon buckets) so I'll have to go back and get some more. Cleaned up what I could on the steering column as many of the areas were hard to reach. Conclusion: I need a sandblaster.

Pedal assembly. Don't have after photos yet but the difference the wire cup brush made is dramatic.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon005.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon003.jpg

Cleaner:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon008.jpg

Brake booster also had some rust forming. Took care of that.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon006.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon007.jpg

Also cut off the nipple on the water housing and ground it down with my dremel. Don't have a drill bit big enough to bore it out so I'll have to get one at Lowe's. Then I'll tap it with a 1/4" NPT and find a plug for it.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon009.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon010.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon011.jpg

My interior as it currently sits.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon001.jpg

[BigTyla]

I decided to take a lunch break from work to visit Lowe's. Picked up a 7/16" drill bit so I can bore out the hole and tap it with my NPT tap. Also picked up some cotter pins for when I reinstall the pedal connections for the clutch and brake master cylinders. I also found some good candidates for bushings to prevent the clutch connector pin from eating into the clutch pedal. I might go back to Lowe's tonight to find the right size.

[BigTyla]

Got a good bit done tonight. I used my 7/16" drill bit to bore out a hole in the water neck. Then I tapped it to 1/4" NPT and put a 1/4" NPT to -6 AN adapter in. I wasn't able to get deep enough with my tap so I was only able to screw my adapter in a little more than halfway. I'll be keeping an eye on it to make sure it holds up well.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-08-16Talon003.jpg

I also tapped the water pipe a little deeper and put my 3/8" NPT to -6 AN adapter in it. I ended up having the same problem as the water neck so I will also be keeping an eye on this connection.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-08-16Talon004.jpg

I also decided to fabricate my stainless steel oil and coolant lines tonight. I used a cutoff wheel attached to my drill to cut the lines.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-08-16Talon009.jpg

Protip: 18mm deep socket wrench is great for tightening down the threads once you've started them by hand.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-08-16Talon007.jpg

Yep, that's right at 1/16" so I don't have to redo it!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-08-16Talon010.jpg

How the oil feed looks:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-08-16Talon006.jpg

How the coolant feed looks:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-08-16Talon008.jpg

How the coolant return looks (you can't see where it goes since it runs to the water pipe above and behind the turbo):

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-08-16Talon011.jpg

All of the lines sitting pretty on the floor:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-08-16Talon012.jpg

[terrets]

Looking goood. Cant wait to see it run still :p.

[BigTyla]

Looking goood. Cant wait to see it run still :p.

You and me both. Doing my best not to rush it for sure! I'm going out of town this weekend so I'll have to wait until next week to start reinstalling everything.

[BigTyla]

Hoping to find some time to put the turbo and lines back in the car. Still have to track down a bushing for my clutch pedal, but I think I found a perfect candidate the other day. Hopefully the wall thickness is thin enough to fit inside the hole.

[TajMan]

Talon Talon Talon Talon Talon Talon Talon

I'm getting ready to get my '91 Talon back on the road finally!
Far to much in the past present and future of this car to ever mention quickly.

I am pulling the warped cylinder head that is on it now(like right now), car outside under this big weeping willow tree.
I will have 2 cylinder heads to drop off to machine shop to have 1 built. I need to do some porting work again first.. I have 264/264 cams in the car already..

[BigTyla]

Talon Talon Talon Talon Talon Talon Talon

I'm getting ready to get my '91 Talon back on the road finally!
Far to much in the past present and future of this car to ever mention quickly.

I am pulling the warped cylinder head that is on it now(like right now), car outside under this big weeping willow tree.
I will have 2 cylinder heads to drop off to machine shop to have 1 built. I need to do some porting work again first.. I have 264/264 cams in the car already..

What brand are your cams? I was looking into those one day and could never find a concensus on what the best product was. I did hear a lot of positive reviews about HKS and some bad ones about Crower.

[TajMan]

I got them from a Utah DSM member used.
Possibly BC, but not sure.

My car was only running for like 1,000 miles in a semi-completed state before, and I was only running stock boost on a small 16G at that time.. I still haven't felt real effects of most performance mods I've purchased to date

[BigTyla]

I'd like to run on stock internals as long as possible while shooting for 11s. I think that's easily achievable. I'm still sort of new to the DSM game so I'm eager to see exactly what I have to do to get there. E85 is still something I'm highly considering.

[TajMan]

thats cool

I have 2G pistons in my 1G engine :D

[BigTyla]

Been a little busy the past few weeks so today is the first time I've worked on the car in awhile. I put most of the engine bay back together today. Turbo and stainless steel lines are in, but the radiator is taking up a lot more space than I expected. I'm going to have to shorten my oil line to pull it away from the radiator as there is currently too much slack in the line. I also need to get a 90 degree -6 AN female to male coupler for my coolant neck fitting. The straight fitting by itself is kinking my coolant line a little more than I'd like. Getting the end to point down will solve the problem.

The bushings I thought I found didn't fit as expected. Still need to find a good candidate. I've been wanting to get over to Fastenal but they close by the time I get off work. Maybe I'll use my lunch break to go down there sometime this week.

I also ordered a brand new ISC and coolant temp sensor from Advance Auto while they were doing their online promo. Got $50 off my next $100 purchase and 15% off the ISC and temp sensor.

Things I need to do before driving the car:
1) Patch holes for antenna and rear wiper on the three-piece wing.
2) Paint and install three-piece wing and front bumper.
3) Reinstall pedal assembly, brake master cylinder, clutch master cylinder, steering wheel.
4) Refinish gauge cluster face.
5) Solder brittle wires that broke off their connectors in the engine bay.

[VR4Rob]

Let me know when/if you want help. Things are finally cooling off at work so I actually have time to do stuff on weekends :D

[BigTyla]

Let me know when/if you want help. Things are finally cooling off at work so I actually have time to do stuff on weekends :D

Will do. Extra hands would make reinstalling the pedal assembly a breeze! The in-laws (all six of them) are coming to town this weekend and I might have to escape into the garage for a few hours to maintain sanity!

[BigTyla]

I was able to install my pedal assembly and brake and clutch master cylinders over the weekend. Got some pics of the painted pieces to share. I'll upload when I get a chance.

Unfortunately, there is still about 1/4" of area where the clutch pedal will not fully return after being depressed. If I disconnect the clutch master cylinder rod from the pedal, it will return all the way, but even with the rod backed out as far as possible while still being attached to the clevis pin, the clutch does not fully return. It might not be an issue since the distance is so small but I have no way of knowing until I actually drive the car.

I did just recently find out that there is supposed to be a bushing in the area where the clevis pin is installed. That might be part of my problem. It's going to be a pain removing the cotter pin I already installed with the assembly in the car though. -_-

If installing the bushing doesn't fix the problem I might just have to rebuild the extra assembly I have the PROPER way. I wish Mitsubishi would have designed the system properly to begin with.

[BigTyla]

Oil and coolant lines installed:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/010-2.jpg

Picture of the coolant line running in between the radiator fans. Would ideally like to get another 90 degree fitting and route the line around the intake side of the turbo as the line is currently resting between the motor mount and the compressor side of the turbo.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/011-1.jpg

Brake master cylinder and pedal assembly painted.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/012-2.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/013-1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/014-1.jpg

Also decided to go ahead and paint the windshield trim piece and wiper arms.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/015-1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/016.jpg

Also just got some goodies shipped to me from Advance Auto today. Had a $50 off $100 coupon I had to use before mid October so I went ahead and got some stuff.

Non-cruise control cable. Why no cruise control? Because race car.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/017.jpg

2 Purolator oil filters, 2 Purolator fuel filters (for eventual swap to E85), intake manifold gasket, and flare fittings and tees for brake lines.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/019.jpg

[BigTyla]

Shop towels and car wash fluid to meet the $100 requirement. :D

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/020-1.jpg

[BigTyla]

Put in a couple of hours worth of work on the car this weekend. Sanded and painted more trim pieces and also filled the antenna and rear wiper holes in the wrap-around spoiler with fiberglass. Still need to sand it and fill the recesses with filler. I'll put up some pics when I get home.

[BigTyla]

This brace for the steering column was gooey and nasty. I let it soak in hot water and dish soap for a week. That cleaned it up really nicely.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon002-1.jpg

Painted it.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon005-1.jpg

Trim pieces sanded then painted.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon003-1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon004-1.jpg

Fiberglassed holes.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon007-1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon008-1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/Talon006-1.jpg

[BigTyla]

Sanded the fiberglass down last night. Huge pain in the ass. Got a really good arm workout for sure. Ended up flexing the middle spoiler piece a little too much which caused a one-inch portion of the fiberglass to detach from the wiper hole it was covering. No big deal; just went at the crack with some resin and let it dry overnight. Just have to level the patches out with filler, sand again with 180 grit, and clean it up for paint!

[Blackmount]

Big Tyla, I was interested in trying out some DIY painting skills, I've done a little in the past with a gun and all, but on 4wheelers, and dirtbikes and stuff...was wondering how small of a air compressor can i use, I need something convenient to move around alot, and throw in the back of my 3000...

have removed pedal assembly in a DSM 4 times now, and installed one 3 times...what a bitch....but after the 2nd time you get a system down. I found easiest (on the back) to just remove the drivers seat.... (when installing)

[BigTyla]

I'm using a 26 gallon, and in my limited painting experience, when I've been laying down paint it has had to run almost constantly to keep up with my flow rate. I can't imagine painting with anything less than a 20 gallon tank.

Here's the one I'm using:

1.8 HP, 26 Gallon, 150 PSI Oilless Air Compressor (http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/air-compressors/18-hp-26-gallon-150-psi-oilless-air-compressor-68067.html)

In other news, I threw some filler over the fiberglassed holes. Didn't have time to do anything else tonight. My parents are going to be in town tomorrow but I suspect my dad will want to help me with the car a little bit. :)

[BigTyla]

To expand on above, I'm sure there are tanks with more horsepower than mine, and that might certainly allow you to go with something a little smaller. My knowledge of the compressor market is very limited though so I don't know how affordable those are.

[Blue91SL]

I enjoyed reading this thread up to this point. :) Keep the updates coming!
Also, I think a smaller tank/bigger engine combination would keep up as well as your compressor.

[BigTyla]

Got a lot done this weekend. My dad was able to help me out for a few hours while we were waiting for the football game to come on. We worked on routing the brake lines to get them as close to the fuse box as possible to make the engine bay a little more spacious. Once they were routed properly, we cut the lines, put on the inverted flare fittings, and flared the lines so they could be installed in the tees I bought. My dad worked on flaring the lines while I finished prepping the remaining body parts for paint.

Filled out the fiberglass patches and sanded them down. Painted the bumper, headlights, and wrap-around spoiler but I'm going to go back and touch some places up with filler. Until then I'm just going to mount them on the car. There are other portions of the body I want to redo anyway.

Pics to come.

[BigTyla]

Lines before getting flared:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-01_12-22-14_268.jpg

Lines connected to tees:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-01_13-26-39_781.jpg

Dat engine bay space:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-01_13-28-04_9.jpg

Painted parts (look wet because paint was laid 5 minutes prior):

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-02_18-20-17_563.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-02_18-20-29_96.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-02_18-20-37_990.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-02_18-20-46_73.jpg

[Blackmount]

I saw you inquired about cams. May i recommend Kelford or 1-TX272 Camshaft Set (http://www.camshaftshop.com/home?page=shop.product_details&flypage=camshaftshop_view.tpl&product_id=925&category_id=74)

or

look into this thread for extra info....

Cam test: I will be dyno test: delta hks 272, delta K272 and BC 272 cams!!!! - DSM Forums (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/361516-cam-test-i-will-dyno-test-delta-hks-272-delta-k272-bc-272-cams.html)

[Blackmount]

I saw you inquired about cams. May i recommend Kelford or 1-TX272 Camshaft Set (http://www.camshaftshop.com/home?page=shop.product_details&flypage=camshaftshop_view.tpl&product_id=925&category_id=74)

or

look into this thread for extra info....

Cam test: I will be dyno test: delta hks 272, delta K272 and BC 272 cams!!!! - DSM Forums (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/361516-cam-test-i-will-dyno-test-delta-hks-272-delta-k272-bc-272-cams.html)

it's really all about what size turbo your running and where you want your power to be shifted...

if your running a big turbo, and you get 262's your wasting time because your turbo won't spool till 5500-6k rpms @ full boost as an example and the 262's a generally a mid to high (stock Red line) cam as far as i am aware...I hope this helps. like my friend matt has 280s...which he needs because hes not at 45 psi till close to 7k so he has the cams to help shift the power band and help make power all the way to the 10k limiter on his talon. his car is low 11's with a 150+ mph ET...bad launches but a hella lot of top end.

[BigTyla]

Yeah I've been looking into cams, but that will be WAY down into the future now that I'm almost dead set on E85.

[Blackmount]

do they have much e85 where you live? they have very few stations here in nashville area...not enough for a conversion, I talked about purchasing 55 gallon drums till i learned that it doesn't have shit for a shelf life.

[BigTyla]

do they have much e85 where you live? they have very few stations here in nashville area...not enough for a conversion, I talked about purchasing 55 gallon drums till i learned that it doesn't have shit for a shelf life.

There are two stations within 2 miles of my house, which is funny because there are about 10 stations total in Alabama. :p

[VR4Rob]

Awesome dude, it's getting closer :D Let me know if you want some help this week/weekend.

Also, there's a HSV Flat Four meet tomorrow night at Mellow Mushroom if you want to come. Not a huge meet but always a good time and some pretty cool cars (not just Subies) show up.

[Blackmount]

I can go pump race gas easier then I can pump e85 in nashville. Theres about 4 or 5 stations in middle tn all of which are 20-50 miles apart and none close to me.

Oh that reminds me since u guys arent crazy far. Huge car show/drift event cancer benefit on the 22nd along with 60$ dyno sessions. Nashville super speedway. Just thought id throw it out there

[BigTyla]

Awesome dude, it's getting closer :D Let me know if you want some help this week/weekend.

Also, there's a HSV Flat Four meet tomorrow night at Mellow Mushroom if you want to come. Not a huge meet but always a good time and some pretty cool cars (not just Subies) show up.

We'll see how the wife feels tonight. I wanted to work on the car last night but couldn't bring myself to do it since she wasn't feeling too well and I wanted to be in the house with her in case something happened. Hooray pregnancy.

Here's what's left to do to the car:

1) Install interior
2) Install bumper, spoiler
3) Bleed brakes
4) Change oil, coolant
5) Install downpipe

Blackmount - thanks for the invite. We'll see what's on the schedule then.

[Blackmount]

No problem man. Not much of a 3s community around here lol...closest thing i got is DSM's that or they are just hiding.

[BigTyla]

I've gotten a bit done in the past couple of days. I decided to put my dashboard back in yesterday, but beforehand I remembered the previous owner supplying some replacement speakers for the ones in the dash, so I went hunting for them. Didn't realize they were Infinitys!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-06_18-28-57_655.jpg

That got me thinking what other goodies I might have overlooked. I remembered a pair of rear shocks and springs I got so I took a closer look at them as well.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-06_18-29-24_766.jpg

Look closer...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-06_18-29-43_905.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-06_18-30-20_586.jpg

Score! Those might come in handy down the road.

I installed the Infinity speakers in the dash and started putting the dashboard back in. I did enough to secure it well and left it here for now since I still need to clean up the surface of the gauge cluster before I install it.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-06_20-19-05_282.jpg

I popped the rear hatch for the first time in ages and remember why I stayed away from there for so long. The thing is a mess! Time to take all of the trim out and clean this up.

Found a nice present in the tail light section.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-06_20-32-24_365.jpg

I guess the previous owner decided to stick some of the stock carpet fabric stuff in the trim that covers the left rear shock housing. WTF?!?!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-06_21-06-27_898.jpg

I've also finally decided to scratch the itch to remove the rear seats. Hey look, another present!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-06_21-06-47_617.jpg

While I had everything out, I removed the rear antenna and the rear wiper fluid housing since I won't be using either of those anymore. Check out how dirty it was.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-06_21-31-01_434.jpg

I attacked it with Armor All Wash and Wax and a rag and a small brush. This is the result of one pass:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-07_16-35-05_640.jpg

Not bad. Will probably go over it again sometime to clean it up even more.

[BigTyla]

One more pic for the lulz:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-07_16-38-03_107.jpg

[Blackmount]

AGX's are full of so much win.

[VR4Rob]

If you want to come over a little earlier tomorrow, bring that gauge cluster and we can polish it up with my stuff. Lookin great :)

[BigTyla]

If you want to come over a little earlier tomorrow, bring that gauge cluster and we can polish it up with my stuff. Lookin great :)

You read my mind. :D

[BigTyla]

I spent yesterday fixing some of the wires in the engine bay that cracked over time due to heat. Ended up crimping on some female connectors to route them to their respective locations. I have one connector that broke off that I need to solder to the wires it belongs to.

I also put a lot of the front interior in the car yesterday. Looks like a lot of the tabs for fastening all the pieces together were broken off, particularly the mounts for the HVAC controls, so it's hanging around loosely. I'll have to try to find some at a parts store. Shouldn't be too difficult.

I'm also having a hard time putting the rear trim pieces back on (around the hatch) since I broke so many of the clips taking them off. I have no idea where I'll be able to find these clips. I've spent a lot of time searching but nothing has come up.

All I have left to do to try to start the car is hooking the last of the wires up, putting the correct coolant temperature sensor in, putting on an oil filter, hooking up the oil return line to the turbo, and filling it up with oil and coolant.

[Blackmount]

what trim pieces specifically. I have to make a run to the yard later in the week, I can pick u up some clips and ship them to you?

[BigTyla]

It's the trim pieces that go around the hatch and rear window panels. There are two different types of clips that hold these in. I'll snap a picture of them when I can.

[Blackmount]

alright just lemme know

[BigTyla]

Hooked up the oil return line and put the coolant hoses on. Pulled my gauge cluster back out because I realized the needle wasn't set properly. Only spent about an hour on the car today.

Gotta pick up some washers for the shifter cables as well as a shift knob. Thinking about going with the AMS one.

Also did some poking around at the front wheels while I have the car jacked up. Eibachs in front with some blue shocks. I think they are Tokicos but I can't find any sort of identifier on them. Looked at the rears and I think the setup back there is stock. Couldn't find an Eibach emblem on the rear springs, which makes sense since the pair I have are for the rear and are on the AGXs outside the car. The shocks are covered in so much dirt I can't tell what color they are. :P

Took a picture of the fasteners I need on my cell. Will upload when I get the chance.

All I have left to do is install washers for the shifter cables, solder the connector for whatever sensor it goes to in the thermostat, put on the downpipe, install the new ISC, and start it up.

[Blackmount]

video of start up??

[BigTyla]

video of start up??

That will definitely be done. Hopefully I'll be able to get it started up by Wednesday night.

[Blackmount]

sweet. good luck man.

[BigTyla]

Here are pics of the fasteners I need.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-10_20-21-51_923.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-10_20-22-09_47.jpg

[BigTyla]

Note that the fastener on the bottom has its clips popped off.

[Blackmount]

I'll look next time i go to the junkyard

[BigTyla]

I tried to start it last night. Wouldn't even crank. CEL doesn't even illuminate which means a) the ECU isn't getting power or b) the ECU is blown. The car started a couple months ago so a blown ECU is VERY unlikely but I won't rule it out. I went through all my connections and everything appears to be plugged in. Will have to investigate further. Surely I must have overlooked something.

[Blackmount]

So it just clicks wont turn over? Or it turns over but doesnt start up

[BigTyla]

Doesn't even click. I looked for blown fuses but the ones I checked were fine. I will check more when I get the chance. Sounds like a classic symptom of a blown fuse. I just have to find it.

[Blackmount]

even if the ECU is bad the car should still turn over

as far as the no turn issue, first thing to check would be the plugs under your dash since you removed your steering colume, the ones that connect to the ignition switch. Next I'd check your starter harness, make sure everything is connected and grounded properly, I'd also make sure that there is a little black and yellow wire on the starter harness with a small tab connector on it, make sure this tab is connected to its mate on the back of your starter. After that I'd check neutral safety switch, Try disabling it to see if that makes a difference. You might know most of this but just in case you don't lol. It's all things that I have experienced with the DSM NO START issues

if none of those work i'd say double check relays and fuses next...

EDIT: For the ECU, take a peak at this http://www.dsmlink.com/images/forums/1GECUPinout.pdf use it as a reference to your power wires, and ground wires. double check where every they go and make sure everything is connected properly.

[BigTyla]

I found a fuse under the dash that was popped. I replaced it but no difference. I did figure out that I had a couple of plugs disconnected. Reconnected those and am now getting warning lights and CELs but the car still does not even crank. Checked fuses under the hood again and they are all fine. Checked ground and they are fine. Clutch safety switch is operating within spec. I unplugged it anyway but still nothing.

I can hear the fuel pump and MFI relay clicking over when I try to start it. It's just that the starter refuses to engage. I'll have to figure it out next week since I am going out of town for the weekend. I bet somehow a connection to the starter became unplugged somehow.

[Blackmount]

I'd check connections for starter both on the starter and battery, and the ground..... , is this a auto w\ manual conversion? i remembered you swapping the clutch pedal assembly that's why i ask.

you could always hook up a push start type button that hooks directly to the starter\battery harness. i know my friend frank with his 90 Laser RS had to do this.

[BigTyla]

Nope, it's originally a manual trans car. Kind of odd because I've done nothing with the wiring since the last time I tried to start it except for the interior wiring harnesses which have all been accounted for.

[Blackmount]

OH did the car have any sort of Alarm system? factory or Aftermarket?

I had talon that wouldn't start when i got it, and the cuplerate ended up being that the aftermarket alarm was spliced into one of the starter wires and killed it so it wouldn't start. I removed the alarm, and reconnected the wires and it started.

if its a FACTORY alarm, pull the alarm fuse, this happend on my roomates GF's 90' GSX

[BigTyla]

No alarm that I'm aware of, and I've started it before with no issue. I'll look into it closer though.

[Blackmount]

has to be something somewhere, a relay under the dash, or a plug or fuse or something. you could try kick starting it XD

[BigTyla]

After a little more research it appears all DSMs with a sunroof and AWD had a factory alarm. There's a relay under the dash that controls the alarm that can be pulled to override it, but it's bedtime so I'll do it when I get back home at the end of the weekend.

[BigTyla]

Tested a couple of relays today. Looked at the starter relay and it is functioning properly. I then locked the doors and my security light came on at the gauge cluster so the alarm system seems to be working normally. I'm going to try to jump the car with the Explorer tomorrow. Something tells me even though the battery has a full charge it's not doing well when loaded. I could test this easily with a second person so we will see how the wife is feeling tomorrow.

[j2k4]

...we will see how the wife is feeling tomorrow.

Side-tracked for one post:

How are things going with the twins, Tyler?

[BigTyla]

Side-tracked for one post:

How are things going with the twins, Tyler?

Things are going well. She rarely feels good at night but mornings are fine for her. Getting a bump already at 13 weeks. I'm just ready for them to be here already!

[j2k4]

Things are going well. She rarely feels good at night but mornings are fine for her. Getting a bump already at 13 weeks. I'm just ready for them to be here already!

I'll bet.

Never had to deal with twins...a guy I worked with became grandpa to triplets a while back - his kid said the three were easier to take care of than one, and the way he explained it, it sounded right.

Keep her comfortable, sir - she's got the big job. :)

[VR4Rob]

Tested a couple of relays today. Looked at the starter relay and it is functioning properly. I then locked the doors and my security light came on at the gauge cluster so the alarm system seems to be working normally. I'm going to try to jump the car with the Explorer tomorrow. Something tells me even though the battery has a full charge it's not doing well when loaded. I could test this easily with a second person so we will see how the wife is feeling tomorrow.

You rang?? :D

[BigTyla]

You rang?? :D

I did it myself today. :p I took a lunch break and went home because I was itching to test it. Car would not start still. Pulled the battery and took it with me back to work so I can swing by Advance Auto on my way home to have them load test it, even though I'm 90% certain it will pass.

[BigTyla]

Oh hello.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwPDk0zYgLM

[terrets]

^Aweessommeee. And twins, thats even cooler. Good luck with those :)

[Blackmount]

Sweet food how'd it drive?

[BigTyla]

Haven't driven it yet. That video was taken at about 8 PM and I don't think the neighbors would have taken kindly to a car with no front bumper and an open exhaust driving around. :D

I did notice I have some coolant leaking from where the water housing bolts up to the block. Looks like I need to replace that gasket.

Also, the ISC is still rattling around like it did with the old one. I think it's a problem with the driver in the ECU. I'm going to have my ECU sent to ECMLink in the next few days so hopefully they can find out that the driver is the issue.

Still need to trace down fasteners for my trim. Going to go to an auto parts store to see if I can find some but I won't hold my breath. I need to download CAPS and attempt to trace them down there.

[BigTyla]

Also, I figured I'd let you guys know what the problem was.

The pedal assembly I put back in the car didn't have all of the rubber stoppers on the levers that come into contact with the brake, cruise, and clutch safety switches. I put the stoppers for the brake and cruise switch back where they were supposed to go before installing the assembly, but forgot about the stopper for the clutch safety switch! So the clutch lever was never coming into contact with the switch when I fully depressed the clutch.

I knew it was something simple. :)

[j2k4]

Somehow it feels good to admit a tiny mistake like that, eh? :)

[BigTyla]

Somehow it feels good to admit a tiny mistake like that, eh? :)

Happens to the best of us. :)

[BigTyla]

Decided to take a look at my ECU before I sent it off to ECMLink to get it socketed.

Clean board, eh?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-20_19-23-20_399.jpg

Looking at the capacitors and the drivers, everything appeared normal...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-20_19-23-46_435.jpg

...until I looked at the back.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/tylerw53/2011-10-20_19-23-35_622.jpg

That might be a problem!

[Blackmount]

damn dood! lol.

are you running ECM link?

if so I know you can pick up a ECU w\ Link for considerably cheaper on DSMTuners then buying new and having your ecu socket ed.

[BigTyla]

damn dood! lol.

are you running ECM link?

if so I know you can pick up a ECU w\ Link for considerably cheaper on DSMTuners then buying new and having your ecu socket ed.

I am, but I have a thing about buying used. I'd rather get this ECU fixed up and know that the socket was done properly and is a v3 setup.

[Blackmount]

i understand

[BigTyla]

I've been communicating with Thomas @ ECMTuning about my ECU. I was advised that the damage looked pretty substantial, and that it would probably be best from a reliability standpoint to just get a new EPROM ECU from them and have them hook me up with v3 instead of repairing my ECU AND socketing it. He said my damage was repairable but when we factored the amount of time likely needed to repair the ECU and socket it, it turned out being about $50 less than getting a new EPROM ECU. Add to that the fact that I can have the ECU in my hands about 2-3 days earlier and the extra $50 doesn't seem so bad (especially for an ECU that's probably going to be more reliable).

So basically I'm stuck with a bad ECU, which is to be expected at times when making purchases off eBay. I think I might try my hand at repairing it to see if I can get it working properly again. Better than using it as a paperweight.

[Blackmount]

that is NOT the ecu that u used to start the car with correct?

[BigTyla]

Yeah it was. :p So I have to do some benchmarking on the car to make sure nothing was affected. It definitely explains the ISC problem.

Lesson: don't take an advertised-as-good ECU and put it in your car without checking.

[Blackmount]

Yup I remember with my laser I ordered a used ECU that was "Tested" before I got it, and it ended up being bad and even worse then the bad one that was originally in the car, So I returned it and found a manufactured one for half the price lol.


at least that one you have is good for diagnosing a bad ecu as well.. I've seen quite a few ECU's come from ECMtuning, and they are bad, sometimes don't even power on. Still a good company though, they just have hicups.

[BigTyla]

Yup I remember with my laser I ordered a used ECU that was "Tested" before I got it, and it ended up being bad and even worse then the bad one that was originally in the car, So I returned it and found a manufactured one for half the price lol.


at least that one you have is good for diagnosing a bad ecu as well.. I've seen quite a few ECU's come from ECMtuning, and they are bad, sometimes don't even power on. Still a good company though, they just have hicups.

For sure. Hopefully everything goes smoothly with mine. It's scheduled to be delivered at my door Wednesday.

[Blackmount]

nice man, you plan to do alot of mods to the talon in the future? or keep it mildly stock?

[BigTyla]

Plans are to stay with a 16g setup. I'd like to go E85 eventually but for now I'm just going to tune it on the stock injectors. Once I'm comfortable with the car I will probably jump to 1000cc injectors with a Walbro 255 and a AFPR for a nice E85 setup, but that will probably be further in the future than originally planned with babies on the way.

[BigTyla]

I got DSMLink a week ago and put the ECU in the car to try to start it. The car would rev up but die as soon as it tried to idle. I thought about it over the weekend and got back to work on it tonight. Upon closer inspection, the previous owner had a hacked 1G MAF on the car. I looked through the box of extra parts he threw in with the car and found a non-hacked 1G MAF, hooked it up to the car, and started it up. Car runs smoothly now! Glad that I was able to find the problem easily.

Went to the dealership today to get the trim clips and shifter bushings I ordered. Hooray ASA online for part numbers! Also ordered a radiator fan switch since the one I ordered from Advance did not fit properly.

Still need to bleed the brakes and install the downpipe and front bumper before I can drive it.

[Blackmount]

I got DSMLink a week ago and put the ECU in the car to try to start it. The car would rev up but die as soon as it tried to idle. I thought about it over the weekend and got back to work on it tonight. Upon closer inspection, the previous owner had a hacked 1G MAF on the car. I looked through the box of extra parts he threw in with the car and found a non-hacked 1G MAF, hooked it up to the car, and started it up. Car runs smoothly now! Glad that I was able to find the problem easily.


Still need to bleed the brakes and install the downpipe and front bumper before I can drive it.


Glad to know its running good, and you don't need a front bumper, just a big fat front mount :)

[BigTyla]

Glad to know its running good, and you don't need a front bumper, just a big fat front mount :)

Trying to avoid a front mount at all costs. 1Gs are so prone to overheating with the lack of space available up front to cool both the radiator and the front mount. Plus I'd like to go for a sleeper look. Maybe when I decide to be more bold later on I'll go the front mount route, but with E85 it won't even be necessary on a 16G.

[DocWalt]

Are you going with the stock sidemount then?

How did I not ever reply to this thread before? DSMs are owned by at least half of my car buddies :lo5l:

[BigTyla]

Are you going with the stock sidemount then?

How did I not ever reply to this thread before? DSMs are owned by at least half of my car buddies :lo5l:

For now, yes. I know of a lot of guys running E85 on the stock sidemount with a 16G setup with good results. I've looked into upgrading my sidemount with a Bell intercooler if I ever decide to upgrade.

[Blackmount]

Trying to avoid a front mount at all costs. 1Gs are so prone to overheating with the lack of space available up front to cool both the radiator and the front mount. Plus I'd like to go for a sleeper look. Maybe when I decide to be more bold later on I'll go the front mount route, but with E85 it won't even be necessary on a 16G.
I'm a pretty big dsm Guy and this is the first I have heard about this. I know a lot of dam guys running fmics right now not one of them have complained about it causing an overheating issue. Weird.

[DocWalt]

Yep, same here. Never heard of an overheating issue because of a FMIC from anyone local.

[j2k4]

Remember, guys - Tyler's in 'Bama.

Right hot down there. :p

[BigTyla]

A lot of the overheating issues are 1G specific due to the front bumper design. Im sure I could come up with some proper ducting to overcome these issues but for now I'd rather play it safe.

Just do a google search for "dsm 1g fmic overheat" and be amazed at the plethora of threads. :p

[Blackmount]

Yeah but its always been other things that cause it to over heat. And I'm in TN
Summers aren't much different. 115* and 80% humidity lol.. its usually a bad radiator majority of those people were kids who bought a dsm then didn't do any Maintenence to it and immidietly cranked up the boost and threw a eBay fmic cause they thought that's all a race car was. It doesn't take much for a 20 year old radiator to clog or leak. The stock radiator is almost trash to begin with and if intentions are to modify the catlr. One of the first things u should do is purchase a aftermarket radiator. Also its wrong to think of any type of cooling unit as a block or restriction of air flow. The way a radiator for example works is the passages that the coolant tracked through heats up. The fins then act as a heat sink and soak it up. Then the air moving THROUGH the radiator cools the fins and displaces the heat from the radiator. This apply applys to intercoolers trans coolers oil coolers. Etc. The air will continue on. Otherwise if this were true u would have the same problem with ur a/c condenser and factory oil cooler. If ur car over heats then there is something wrong. Usually lack of coolant bad thermostat or a leak. One even so small u may never see or smell the coolant. Speaking from experience not thought. If ur car overheard from ur fmic its because it took a exsisting problem such as wasted fins or dirt in the fins and multiplied the effects of it

[BigTyla]

Haven't updated this thread in awhile.

I've decided to temper my plans for the car back even further. For now I'm going to eschew the E85 plans and tune for a more conservative 19 psi on my 16G with 93 octane. This will save me over $800 for just the fuel mods I would have had to do for E85 (AFPR, 1200cc injectors, Walbro 255 lph pump). I think this is the best start for me to become more familiar with the car and will also provide me with a little cushion should something fail along the way, and that cushion will be very nice with twin boys on the way. The reliability as a result of lower power output is also a plus. I was able to procure from 720cc injectors for $100 and OhioSpyderman was gracious enough to send me a stock VR4 fuel pump for the cost of shipping (thanks Bob!).

I recently found that my turbo is spewing oil out of the exhaust. Apparently this turbo doesn't have a built-in restrictor and my larger-than-normal -6 AN oil feed line is supplying way too much oil to the turbo. I am going to the dealership to get a stock oil feed line to remedy this since it has a restrictor in the line. Also need to get some extra clips for the trim as I didn't order enough to get them both on.

After that the car ought to be driveable after I bleed the brakes and replace the bushings on the shift lever.

[VR4Rob]

I recently found that my turbo is spewing oil out of the exhaust. Apparently this turbo doesn't have a built-in restrictor and my larger-than-normal -6 AN oil feed line is supplying way too much oil to the turbo. I am going to the dealership to get a stock oil feed line to remedy this since it has a restrictor in the line. Also need to get some extra clips for the trim as I didn't order enough to get them both on.


That thought crossed my mind after I left on Friday... Hopefully it's that easy of a fix.

[BigTyla]

That thought crossed my mind after I left on Friday... Hopefully it's that easy of a fix.

It is. Seems a lot of people that pull their oil from the oil filter housing have the same issues because they don't install a restrictor. I just hope I didn't ruin the seals in the turbo from unrestricted oil pressure, but considering the car has idled for a total of two minutes like that (no revving whatsoever) I can't imagine that being the case.

*knocks on wood*

[AdamVR4]

I recently found that my turbo is spewing oil out of the exhaust. Apparently this turbo doesn't have a built-in restrictor and my larger-than-normal -6 AN oil feed line is supplying way too much oil to the turbo. I am going to the dealership to get a stock oil feed line to remedy this since it has a restrictor in the line. Also need to get some extra clips for the trim as I didn't order enough to get them both on.

-6 is giant for a feed line. Did the car come with that or what? FWIW, I use unrestricted -4 lines and -8 (or -10? I don't remember) returns. I've never had any issues. Of course it's not a DSM and we probably have less oil pressure at the feed line source.

[BigTyla]

-6 is giant for a feed line. Did the car come with that or what? FWIW, I use unrestricted -4 lines and -8 (or -10? I don't remember) returns. I've never had any issues. Of course it's not a DSM and we probably have less oil pressure at the feed line source.

No, I just didn't realize -6 was THAT big. Upon researching more, -4 seems to be the typical feed line size and -10 is the typical return line size. However, a lot of people that run -4 feeds have turbos with restrictors built into the oil galley. This 16G I got with the car does not appear to have such a restrictor. Could have something to do with being a China turbo. :p

I bought the stock line and banjos with crush washers today. Set me back $60 but they should be in tomorrow morning.

[AdamVR4]

I bought the stock line and banjos with crush washers today. Set me back $60 but they should be in tomorrow morning.

Nice. I can't remember if my E16G's have restrictors at the feed inlets. That OEM feed line should look clean though... I'm really hoping SOME of the half-dozen little orders I've placed arrive before thanksgiving!

[BigTyla]

Nice. I can't remember if my E16G's have restrictors at the feed inlets. That OEM feed line should look clean though... I'm really hoping SOME of the half-dozen little orders I've placed arrive before thanksgiving!

One of the perks of ordering from the local dealership is that almost everything comes in the very next morning. :) A little more expensive than Cherry Hill, but parts are easier to return and get here faster!

[Blackmount]

Tulane. I have the proper feed line ready to go... the one u run from ur oil filter housing

[BigTyla]

I don't like feeds from the OFH. A lot of people have oil pressure problems from that and I have no idea why they convert to OFH. Running an inline filter would be best if you're really concerned about unfiltered oil.

[Blackmount]

I thought that was the line you were talking about. oops.

[BigTyla]

I might finally have time to work on the car some this weekend. I have to remove the turbo and take off the exhaust housing to get the oil fitting off the turbo (it's a 90 degree fitting and my wrench can't fit in the narrow space between the exhaust and compressor housings to loosen it. Shouldn't take too long to do. Hopefully everything is fine with the turbo and it doesn't smoke.

Car will be driveable when I replace the shifter lever bushings and bleed the brakes. Right now there is considerable side-to-side slop near the top of the lever and I think some missing hardware and worn bushings are to blame. Might have a helper come over to pump the brake pedal for me.

[AdamVR4]

Let us know if you find anything satisfying (worn out) in the shifter. I installed some bushings at the base of my shifter assembly last night... It was cramped, but I don't have sausage fingers, so i did it while removing very little.

[BigTyla]

Let us know if you find anything satisfying (worn out) in the shifter. I installed some bushings at the base of my shifter assembly last night... It was cramped, but I don't have sausage fingers, so i did it while removing very little.

Sure thing. I know a lot of people get sold bushings for the shifter base but I'm just going to replace the ones in the lever for now. The previous owner installed a short throw shifter and the side-to-side play is so bad I have to really put some force on the shifter to get it to go into first.

[DocWalt]

FWIW I had the shifter base bushings in my VR4 and that made a good difference, but hard mounting the lever bracket on top of the trans made the biggest difference.

[TonyM]

Trying to avoid a front mount at all costs. 1Gs are so prone to overheating with the lack of space available up front to cool both the radiator and the front mount. Plus I'd like to go for a sleeper look. Maybe when I decide to be more bold later on I'll go the front mount route, but with E85 it won't even be necessary on a 16G.

Go air-to-water . . . that's where it's at!

Nice project and good work!

[BigTyla]

Go air-to-water . . . that's where it's at!

Nice project and good work!

Funny you say that because that was something I was looking into. I'm going to have to reevaluate everything now since I'm putting E85 off.

[BigTyla]

Foiled again.

Apparently the previous owner thought it would be prudent to tap the stock oil feed location on the head to a much larger size than stock. I realized this when I began installing the oil feed line. The banjo bolt just slid right into the hole without even contacting the threads! Nothing I can do to remedy this so I have to return these stock parts and make a smaller oil feed line. Needless to say I'm pretty pissed.

Adam - you said you ran an unrestricted -4 AN for your turbos? I was thinking of going -3 AN. I was able to confirm that my 16G does in fact have a restrictor built into the oil feed hole, but I still want to make sure I keep pressure behind that restrictor low.

[BigTyla]

Got my -4 AN restricted fitting in along with -4 AN line and -4 AN Auto-Fit hose ends. For some reason these hose ends are being a pain in the ass to install and the lines are fraying up badly as I try to put the red end on. Got a little frustrated and quit and will try again this week.

I put the rear trim that goes around the side back on. Also put the wrap-around wing back on. It's going to need to be resanded and painted again but I knew that when putting it on. The surface where I applied fiberglass is still very rough and I'm anal about that.

Just need to put the front bumper and headlights back on, put the oil lines on, make sure the turbo is no longer smoking, put the downpipe on, and replace the bushings on the shifter lever.

[mb3000]

Are you putting oil on the inside of the fittings?

[BigTyla]

Are you putting oil on the inside of the fittings?

Wrong side. I'm having a problem with putting the line inside the red fitting, not threading the blue fitting into the hose end. The braids keep fraying out too much.

I actually did manage to get one in but it would not set down all the way inside the red fitting.

[BigTyla]

Got a chisel to aid with the proper cutting of the lines. The braids fray much less with a chisel compared to a cutting wheel on a drill. Made the oil line and installed it last night. Also got the turbo, intake pipes, and radiator fans back on. Tried starting it a few times and ended up killing my battery before finding out I left an intake pipe undone after trying to get other things to fit properly since I'm so anal. I'll give it a jump tonight to see if the smoking problem is fixed. If it isn't I suspect the seals in the turbo are blown but will also do a compression test to rule out bad rings.

[AdamVR4]

Wow, I'd never heard of cutting stainless braided lines with a chisel. Were you able to get away with shitty Harbor Freight chisels or did you need something better?

[IPD]

Got a chisel to aid with the proper cutting of the lines. The braids fray much less with a chisel compared to a cutting wheel on a drill. Made the oil line and installed it last night. Also got the turbo, intake pipes, and radiator fans back on. Tried starting it a few times and ended up killing my battery before finding out I left an intake pipe undone after trying to get other things to fit properly since I'm so anal. I'll give it a jump tonight to see if the smoking problem is fixed. If it isn't I suspect the seals in the turbo are blown but will also do a compression test to rule out bad rings.

do they fray if you masking-tape over the section you want to cut?

[BigTyla]

Wow, I'd never heard of cutting stainless braided lines with a chisel. Were you able to get away with shitty Harbor Freight chisels or did you need something better?

I bought a Stanley 2" from Lowes. ANplumbing.com has a video with them using a chisel quite effectively.


do they fray if you masking-tape over the section you want to cut?

No. I actually had better results using masking tape vs not using it.

[BigTyla]

Here's a link to the chisel:

Shop Stanley 2" Bevel Chisel at Lowes.com (http://www.lowes.com/pd_116048-355-16-981_0__?productId=1005327&Ntt=stanley+chisel&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dstanley%2Bchisel&facetInfo=)

[mb3000]

I use this to cut all of my lines:

http://s7.sears.com/is/image/Sears/00945768000-1?hei=500&wid=500&op_sharpen=1

[BigTyla]

Actually shears are the last thing I'd recommend someone use to cut SS lines. They fray the lines like crazy and you'll never get a clean cut like with a cutoff wheel or chisel. I tried it one time and was not impressed at all with the results.