Piston and ring info...

[Ray Pampena]

theres been a bunch of threads about pistons, brands, shelf stock pistons etc. in those threads i stated my deal about custom pistons and rings that i have built by Ross and why the customs i came up with and sold for the past 10 years are superior.

a picture is worth 1000 words. this is a competitors Ross piston... theres no need for me to name them because it can be anyone. we have our own design that only we use.

in this piston, the top ring is a cast coated moly ring which is junk in the turbo car world. high temps and high cylinder pressure make the ring lose its spring and sit flush in the piston with no outward thrust...notice the ring gap there.. the heat also makes the coating peal off as seen in the pics. the blow by then causes scuffing in the skirts.

also, these use oil ring spacers which my 3.0-3.1 pistons do not. our pistons are built around parts and designs that work!

i cant price war with everyone because cheap parts are not my thing when it comes to engines. i can only use my knowledge and build the best parts out there for the best price i can.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c178/raysinsomnia/2011-04-07_15-54-58_944.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c178/raysinsomnia/2011-04-07_15-58-48_453.jpg

[RealMcCoy]

I'm not a fan of those spacers, and consider that enough reason to buy yours... But I'm curious, are the competitors pistons in your pics marketed with with rings included, or did someone make the decision to use those rings on their own?

[Ray Pampena]

Stroker pistons always need spacers but the 3.0s do not. That is the rings that they come with because that's the ones they are cut for. That is the reason I had to come up with a piston that was built around a good ring set

[RealMcCoy]

Stroker pistons always need spacers but the 3.0s do not. That is the rings that they come with because that's the ones they are cut for. That is the reason I had to come up with a piston that was built around a good ring set

Yea, I've had to use the spacers in strokers in other platforms... You do what you have to do, but if the option is there to NOT use them that's my preference.

I just don't get the thinking behind using those rings in the first place..? Cost cutting? I honestly can't remember the last time I pulled a cast ring out of a top groove in anything...

[Ninja Performance]

Yep, I have seen that piston and the skirt scuff after very little miles many times before. Was never a big fan of that piston/ring setup. Much happier with my Wiseco setup I have now and probably be even more happier with a set of Ray's pistons/rings.

-Chris

[IPD]

but at least the ringlands aren't broken?

[TurboSinceBirth]

Stroker pistons always need spacers but the 3.0s do not. That is the rings that they come with because that's the ones they are cut for. That is the reason I had to come up with a piston that was built around a good ring set

Yep. Ray's stroker Ross pistons have a spacer on the top and bottom of the oil ring. I kind of wish I was more careful when I had the pistons in and out while I was grinding the girdle and block because the side skirts weren't in perfect shape, but I was probably being too paranoid. I'm confident the rings will seal in real well. I had a set of 93mm Ross pistons in the engine before when it was a 3.1L. I don't know if GT Pro ordered directly from Ross, but for how few of miles were on the pistons(~10k) I wasn't very impressed with the rings or the wear. Most of that I attribute to the builders of the engine, but at least now I have a good set of rings and pistons. :D

[Ray Pampena]

Skirts get scuffing when the piston gets too hot and too big, because it's put together with insufficient piston to bore clearance.

Steve

Yes and the piston skirts get to hot and grow when the rings don't seal and you have too much blow by which is obviously the case in these pictures...which is the purpose of this thread

[RealMcCoy]

but at least the ringlands aren't broken?

Every forum needs it's inside joke... I can't say if it's good or bad that we came up with such an epic one so quickly. :D


Skirts get scuffing when the piston gets too hot and too big, because it's put together with insufficient piston to bore clearance.

Steve

There ya go... The expert schools us again.

[speedy25]

Verrrrryyyy interesting. I have known that cast rings were the problems of many engines but thought it was from bad wear and not that their spring was lost. Usually the only time I see a ring gap like that the piston has already seized.

Oil ring design- I didnt follow what was written. In the photo I see the usual 3 piece ring construction but I'm not sure what you guys are talking about for an alternate construction. I have seen a few solid oil rings but I dont think you were talking about those. Any better descriptions or maybe a photo?

Back in the 80's we used to have our slogan for two stroke piston users of "Seize with Wiseco." (Not win with wiseco) Why? Because they would seize. Pistons were fitted according to spec BUT the shape of the skirt was not well done and portions of the skirt would stick. The solution was prep as usual, do a light run-in, and then remove the pistons and sand down all the high spots. THEN they would last.

I doubt that happens any more in this computer controlled age but as we all know quality issues arise on all kinds of parts in EVERYTHING these days. Its tough to make a good decision on what will last.

Thanks for a good techie thread.

-SP

[green-lantern]

but at least the ringlands aren't broken?

WIN! :lo5l:

I don't guess he was pushing the platform hard enough.

[Ray Pampena]

When the rings don't seal, the piston gets discoloured below the rings, the same colour as above the top ring.

Steve

i almost like you because you almost do know what your talking about. the problem is.. your experience is replaced with a know it all cockyness that you think your 100% correct but only a portion is true.

the portion if the piston above the ring lands is a smaller diameter than under the ring lands.. the dark color is noticed in that groove under the top ring that is NOT rubbed off from the cylinder wall.

do you think that top ring in that pic with no spring and the moly falling off seals?? lol im only bothering to post to your reply because i think your trying here.. as anoying as it may be

[RealMcCoy]

i almost like you because you almost do know what your talking about. the problem is.. your experience is replaced with a know it all cockyness that you think your 100% correct but only a portion is true.

im only bothering to post to your reply because i think your trying here.. as anoying as it may be

That's the problem with this guy... I don't know if he really thinks he's that smart, or if he's just trolling, but he has three times my post count on this forum, and EVERY one of his posts is spewing his "technical knowledge". Ignoring him isn't sufficient, because someone HAS to challenge his crap just to save the newbs that might temporarily buy it. He knows just enough to be dangerous to any unsuspecting newbie that might listen to him...

[Ray Pampena]

Steve, go build some stuff and get back to us. use cast pistons with cast rings and NA heads and let me know how much power you make... ill be too busy building and racing 1000 plus awhp cars to read about what you do sooo... be sure to send me a link :)

[Hammer]

Hi Ray,

I am thinking about building an E85 engine. What compression ratios do you have available in your custom pistons? For both your 3.5L or the standard 3L Or a .30 over bore 3L engine.

[Ray Pampena]

Hi Ray,

I am thinking about building an E85 engine. What compression ratios do you have available in your custom pistons? For both your 3.5L or the standard 3L Or a .30 over bore 3L engine.

anything that you want. it takes about 3 weeks to make

[EvanH]

Hey Ray, I sent you a PM

[TurboSinceBirth]

Ray, I have another block in the machine shop right now. I brought them my pistons and they want the specs from the manufacturer for the rings. Can you give me a link to those custom ring packs for your stroker pistons? I can't seem to find the sheet I had with them.