Getting the crank shaft off to change the timing!

[Danube_3KGT]

So, I have most everything off the side of the engine to get to the timing belt, and I need to pull it off to remove my heads.. is there any way to get my crank shaft off without an impact wrench? I've cut the timing belt out of the car (bought a new one) so I don't have to worry about bending valves now..

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

there are many tricks. Easiest would be to put the car in 5th gear and have someone step on the brakes hard.

[$$$PIT]

If you have a breaker bar, wedge it against the frame and just tap the starter. The starter is strong enough to break it loose, usually.

[Rocket]

^^^^^ This is what I did and it worked like a charm. BUMP the starter, don't turn the key and let her rip.

[Danube_3KGT]

that just sounds scary.. lol.. Randy I'd end up tearing it up more..

[Valhallaz]

I'm a little confused. Why are you removing the heads? And if you've cut the timing belt, why pull the harmonic balancer to remove them?
And with the heads on, and no timing belt, I wouldn't be turning that crank over. It still has cams holding valves open. If cutting the belt means no worries about bending valves, why do we bend valves when the belt breaks?

[green-lantern]

Uhhhhhh wait guys! He cut the timing belt! Don't go bumping the starter because now without the belt you WILL have to worry about the valves.

I guess you mean crank pulley?

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

the valves will shut with the belt off, that is why the front cams try to move so much when you are putting the belt on.

I personally wouldn't have cut the belt, but ok.

[mh3kgt]

Just grab a 22mm socket and breaker bar and it'll come off. Just put some muscle into it. Just did this week or so ago.

[Steve '92ES]

the valves will shut with the belt off, that is why the front cams try to move so much when you are putting the belt on.
I've heard that but I wouldn't bet his motor on it, never mind mine...
Since you're removing the heads anyway why not take them off first then use the "bump the starter" method?

[Valhallaz]

I've heard that but I wouldn't bet his motor on it, never mind mine...
Since you're removing the heads anyway why not take them off first then use the "bump the starter" method?

This. If the cams are in, there are always valves open. To what degree is the question.

[UTRacerX9]

I don't see why you are messing around with the crank pulley if you need to take off the heads. You already cut the belt so... just unbolt them. Simple as that.

[ViperZ]

I don't see why you are messing around with the crank pulley if you need to take off the heads. You already cut the belt so... just unbolt them. Simple as that.

This. And once the heads are off, you can either do the 5th gear, press on the brakes method or the starter method, either will work like a charm, I've done both many times. Good luck with everything! Btw, make sure your timing belt is OEM and not some ebay pos, it WILL fail if it is, I promise you that. Also it's a good idea to replace the water pump, pulleys, and hydraulic tensioner while you are in there.

-AaronZ

[vroom4]

Has anyone even addressed the fact that he is calling a pulley the crank shaft? Why are you working on your own car alone dude?

[green-lantern]

the valves will shut with the belt off, that is why the front cams try to move so much when you are putting the belt on.

I personally wouldn't have cut the belt, but ok.

I'm about positive there will be at least 2 valves still sticking down.

[green-lantern]

Has anyone even addressed the fact that he is calling a pulley the crank shaft? Why are you working on your own car alone dude?

One of the first things that came to mind but I was more worried about his valves first. lol

I have seen guys pretty good with cars screw up setting the timing so I'm a bit worried about this engine. I would recommend this guy getting some help from a local that has done it before.

[vroom4]

Without the timing belt on all the valves snap closed. I mean, when you lift up a head off the short block they are all closed.

[Rocket]

On a small block or big block with a cam in the block yes the valves are all closed lifting the heads off because you are leaving the can in the block. With over head cam motors the cams stay in the last position you pointed them and will be pushing valves open somewhere. If you pull the cams then the heads all the valves will be shut.

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[$$$PIT]

Without the timing belt on all the valves snap closed. I mean, when you lift up a head off the short block they are all closed.

I've had the heads off my motor more than once. When the timing belt is NOT on the valves all close up. The springs pull them all closed.

He should have some help from some of us "locals". It's just that getting a time when we can get together is hard with everybody working different shifts.

Houston, it may sound like you'd tear something up but it won't believe me. I've done it and it works like a charm.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I'm about positive there will be at least 2 valves still sticking down.

could be crazy, but last set of fully assembled 3/s heads had all valves shut when off the car.

[UTRacerX9]

could be crazy, but last set of fully assembled 3/s heads had all valves shut when off the car.

As were mine.

[green-lantern]

could be crazy, but last set of fully assembled 3/s heads had all valves shut when off the car.

Well when you set the cams in they don't sit all the way down you have to snug the caps up before they do. I know they won't be all the way open but if I'm not mistaken it does depend on how they are set in. So in other words if the engine/cams are sitting in the wrong spot when the belt was cut it might not be in a favorable position to spin the engine. I know they will slip a few degrees in ether direction to a lower spot and none will be wide open but I'm sure they will be open some. How much and will it interfere with a piston I'm not sure. I personally wouldn't turn the engine but it sounds like at least one person has done it without causing damage so.....

[UTRacerX9]

Actually, all he has to do is grab the cam gear and turn it by hand. The cam will settle in the position with the least amount of pressure against the springs, which is when all valves are closed. He won't hurt the valves or pistons that way either, if they do happen to make contact, it won't hurt them by just him turning by hand.

[green-lantern]

It shouldn't but they can spin quite violently when they reach that point (don't ask me how I know lol). If he used his actual hands the gear could cut them. They could come to rest against a piston anyway. Like was mentioned before if he is pulling the heads I'd just pull them 1st.

[$$$PIT]

Actually, all he has to do is grab the cam gear and turn it by hand. The cam will settle in the position with the least amount of pressure against the springs, which is when all valves are closed. He won't hurt the valves or pistons that way either, if they do happen to make contact, it won't hurt them by just him turning by hand.

You are EXACTLY right. Unless a valve is bent so bad down on the stem that the valve won't go through the valve guide they ALL close.

[n2nsanity]

make a 50/50 mix of acetone/atf fluid
spray it all over the bolt and washer
let it sit for a few hours
then you can almost unscrew it with your fingers lol
another good trick if you dont have access to a crank pulley tool, is to put bolts or better yet metal rods that fit perfectly in the holes, brace a large pry bar against that and the 1/2" breaker bar pulling in opposite directions

i definitely wouldn't risk damaging the valves

[gto30us]

Ok Im thinking you mean crank pulley instead of crankshaft. Since you already cut your timing belt you cant do the starter method. If you do you are risking your valves. So your next option is to remove your starter and wedge a thick flathead to hold your Flywheel in place( its alot easier if you have somone else to help, but you can do it yourself) then once you lock your flywheel now you can use a breaker bar and break the crank bolt loose. Hope this helps

[J_Parker]

Hit it with a rock :)



But really, although turning the cams to a position with the least amount of force to turn them by hand is where the valve's won't interfere with the pistons, it's probably best to just take the heads off first anyways, just for a little peace of mind.

[$$$PIT]

I know for a FACT that ALL the valves will close when the timing belt is off and there is no tension on the springs. I rebuilt my motor less than 1 1/2 yrs ago. I carried my heads to the machine shop. I've seen several sets of heads out of the car and with the cams in the "relaxed" position the valves are closed. ALL of them.
Even with the timing belt off, the starter will still turn the crank and thats what you are doing turning the crank instead of the bar. The starter meets with the flywheel, the flywheel is connected to the crank.
I know for a FACT that if you get a breaker bar and put it against the subframe and tap the starter it will break loose the bolt that holds the HARMONIC BALANCER on. (I'm surprised noone knew that was what he was trying to get off, since everyone is so knowledgeable.) I've done it more than once and it is a known practice by alot of others.

[Danube_3KGT]

if it doesnt get worked on this week i may just send it to tacora.. with a new born i cant wait much longer.. its been down for over 2 months

[Valhallaz]

(I'm surprised noone knew that was what he was trying to get off, since everyone is so knowledgeable.)

I don't think anyone was confused as to what he was trying to remove. Other than the OP, of course.

[J_Parker]

I don't think anyone was confused as to what he was trying to remove. Other than the OP, of course.

I'm sure he knows what he's doing guys, I've seen people miss a word in a title from time to time lol.