Japan 8.9 earthquake

[DuTTch]

Anybody seeing the footage of that 8.9 earthquake? the tsunami. This is huge.

[heptone182]

Yeah, HOLY COW that Tsunami wave coming ashore is ON FIRE!!! WTF!!?? The wave is moving at 500 mph apparantly! The follow-up waves are gonna suck! Hawaii better brace!! 8.9 is a huge quake!!!

[Gearheadvr4]

You should have related this to 3s somehow at least. Like, "it's going to take longer to get mitsu parts from Japan"

Edit: After seeing the video that's about as bad as it can get. Wow. Small islands across the pacific had better brace for trouble.

[MR2]

yeah crazy footage.

[Emilie@GZP]

Holy shit.... :eek:

[Emilie@GZP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P6FlMH3kXg

[mb7050]

unbelievable .

[Roybatty]

What an epic mess!

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

[Keyan]

the tsnuami is one fire.

THE TSUNAMI IS ON FIREEEE

[J. Fast]

Just woke up...

News just came on: Tsunami waves supposed to be 35 feet! Holy Shit!

Put your pontoon tires on and bring the kangaroos in Aussies!

[Ninja Performance]

Mother of God...Very sad :(
I have family in Hawaii. hope they will be OK.

-Chris

[zapman2000]

Hurray nuclear power plant is on fire to and they lost cooling


Ps no there won't be a meltdown or any massive radiation leak and any radiation that does leak will be from secondary systems and not a big deal
Nuclear power is safe when built right

HTC EVO

[J. Fast]

Looks like that country was flattened in some places. I bet the price of food, gas, and cars goes up next week. They don't have any power.

[Turbo Beast]

Makes me sad, poor people.....

[enollava]

My brother in in Hawaii for a government trip, and he sent a text this morning super early saying they were being evacuated from his hotel. Fortunately so far, I've not heard anything about the waves hitting Hawaii in a bad way. I know they got some waves, but nothing devastating. My wife used to live in Japan, and she was checking her messages this morning and getting reports from people she knows saying they were OK. I don't even want to guess how many people are dead in Japan due to this event.

I'll be praying for them.

[Dbeltran24]

Last update I heard, 300 bodies were found.

[green-lantern]

Last update I heard, 300 bodies were found.

I'd say it will be much much higher :sad:

[DuTTch]

The mitsu plant is in that area isnt it?

[DuTTch]

I have a question, did yall see those little cars in the tsunami flood, they were all floating and not sinking at all. are they design that way?

[beepbeep]

I'd say it will be much much higher :sad:

Yeah, I unfortunately agree. :sadness:

[DuTTch]

Just saw new footage, of a coastal town being over run by the tsunami. its like dominos

[SOHC]

Just saw new footage, of a coastal town being over run by the tsunami. its like dominos

Where you getting this footage online? I'm watching Chicago news and switching between fox and none of that is being shown.

[DuTTch]

I am on fox, this type of video is coming in ongoing.

[green-lantern]

I have a question, did yall see those little cars in the tsunami flood, they were all floating and not sinking at all. are they design that way?

I think they are just being whisked away. The water isn't that deep but the current is very strong.

[green-lantern]

They just said the pressure is building inside the reactor. I'm not sure what part of the reactor they are talking about but as far as the reactor it self they can just drop the control rods and stop the reaction. I assume they are taking about the actual power generating part of the plant.

[colt45 gto]

They just said the pressure is building inside the reactor. I'm not sure what part of the reactor they are talking about but as far as the reactor it self they can just drop the control rods and stop the reaction. I assume they are taking about the actual power generating part of the plant.

apparently the diesel generators have failed to start so they cant raise or lower anything with no power. i guess its a waiting game now.

earth quake, tsunami and close to a nuclear melt down, it isn't looking good for Japan atm :(

another just hit NW Japan measuring 6.6 so they are far from clear yet.

[Turbo Beast]

Just heard a friend of mine is in Japan, his mom called to see if i heard from him :(

[green-lantern]

apparently the diesel generators have failed to start so they cant raise or lower anything with no power. i guess its a waiting game now.

earth quake, tsunami and close to a nuclear melt down, it isn't looking good for Japan atm :(

another just hit NW Japan measuring 6.6 so they are far from clear yet.

Well they have safety measures for that they can manually drop control rods and stop the reaction (witch I'm sure they have done that) but the heat doesn't just go away immediately. They use to call a guy an ax man that cut control rod cables so they drop in worst case scenarios. The problem with Chernobyl power plant was the rods were already warped from the heat and wouldn't fall into the reactor. I'm pretty sure the pressure is in the steam turban part of the reactor. This water and steam is contaminated so released pressure will release contamination. How much IDK but I don't think at any time they were in danger of a meltdown.

[mb7050]

I thought all reactors were shut down by automatic emergency protection system long time ago as far as I undestand generators are used to circulate cooling water too .

[green-lantern]

Death toll has risen to 1000 and things do not look to good for that reactor. They are worried about a meltdown.

[CoreyB]

The whole thing is terrible. The usaf actually had to fly in coolant for the reactor, that definitely adds to the severity of the situation. Lets all hope theres no meltdown.

[mb7050]

a nuclear disaster on top of that could it be any worse ..

[onebadmollafolla]

Another remarkable video of the tsunami hitting Japan.

YouTube - Japan's 8.9 magnitude quake triggers tsunami on 11th March,2011 - video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQTJy5mWejA&feature=player_embedded#at=12)

[CoreyB]

Does anyone know what happens if the reactor melts down? I know its bad but I dont fully understand what the result is.

[mb7050]

the chernobyl accident is a pretty harsh example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59X6xbRWB1k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZwAYNfPP3g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dSyMul71jA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVknvN7ni7Y&feature=related

[DuTTch]

if it is a full melt down, the core should travel thru the earth and pop out on the other side of the world wherever that is.

[DuTTch]

the chernobyl accident is a pretty harsh example


U remember that, was on my bday april 26, not to hot not to cold, well it was hot that day. I remember we couldnt eat strawberries, in finland didnt they have to kill all the reindeer or something like that?

[mb7050]

yep in lapland they had to kill all the reindeers .

[IPD]

Anybody seeing the footage of that 8.9 earthquake? the tsunami. This is huge.

maybe this will wipe those goddamn japs off the planet, eh duttch? i mean, why stop with the jews? :rolleyes:

[MR2]

IPD being an arse as usual.

I don't understand why they dont get some robots in there to grab all the radio active material and just bury it elsewhere (where the bury the rest of it I guess, not much you can do about the rest of it though).

maybe if/when NASA get the space elevator going we can just shove it all out into the sun :p

[beepbeep]

Multiple aftershocks (approx 125) continue to hit, some with magnitude of 6.8-7.1

[AgentOblivious]

From what I've heard Tokyo is okay, but the Japanese aren't taking any risks and are checking everything. I've got a friend on a trip in Tokyo ATM, he called his mom and told her he's okay, but now they're stuck in the lobby of their hotel and aren't allowed into their rooms for now...

[green-lantern]

It's really hard to believe in this day in age that they are having a possibility of a meltdown. I've worked in the nuclear field for 22years now. Even if this earthquake cracked the core I'm surprised they would have a meltdown. If they do, this will be a big insult to injury for japan. It could be a very big deal. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out not all the safety measures were in place. US power plants don't fuck around. I've helped rebuild the coolant motors and I can tell you anal is an understatement with these people.

[green-lantern]

BTW if you want a good read? This is my favorite web page. It's just awesome!

KIDDofSPEED - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures - Kidofspeed - Elena (http://www.kiddofspeed.com/)


Chapter one
http://www.kiddofspeed.com/chapter1.html

[colt45 gto]

looks like a reactor has exploded at fukushima 1 plant.

[mb7050]

the reactor ? thats one big reactor there

[colt45 gto]

its unknown what has actually exploded but they say its no chernobyl, more like a 3 mile island thing....at the moment anyway. they have not got anyone in close enough to see exactly what went bang but the whole building except the steel structure has evaporated.

they did extend the evacuation radios from 2 mile to 6 mile and have now doubled that to a 12 mile evacuation radios. so its pretty serious.

[IPD]

IPD being an arse as usual.

I don't understand why they dont get some robots in there to grab all the radio active material and just bury it elsewhere (where the bury the rest of it I guess, not much you can do about the rest of it though).

maybe if/when NASA get the space elevator going we can just shove it all out into the sun :p

apparently you missed this thread:

http://www.3sgto.org/f9/heres-question-4039.html

i was trying to point out duTTch's narrow-minded views make just as little sense when applied to the japanese. must have completely gone over everyone's heads though.

[mb7050]

the whole building except the steel structure has evaporated.

they did extend the evacuation radios from 2 mile to 6 mile and have now doubled that to a 12 mile evacuation radios. so its pretty serious.
sounds really bad

[mb7050]

YLE Areena (http://areena.yle.fi/player/index.php?clip=1299922089576&language=fi)

[colt45 gto]

it hasn't damaged the reactor capsule so that part is safe, it sounds like a simple over pressure build up of steam that caused the explosion, this seems sensible due to the fact there were no flames what so ever.

[MR2]

yeah...did not look like much of an explosion...just loads of steam.

[zapman2000]

If the reactor was shutdown like they said there won't be a real meltdown what's happening is that during the shutdown they low cooling so the system shutdown but stayed hot since it couldn't be cooled it built pressure
If it does blow it won't be a melt down but radiation would be release because the primary loop and containment water would be realised and the fuel would be exposed

HTC EVO

[zapman2000]

But if the reactor wasn't shutdown that's a different story

Also when they say "blank times more radiation than normal" normal is a very very very small number

HTC EVO

[J. Fast]

Shit's going to hit the fan...


Japanese officials confirmed a radiation leak at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant... Government officials were reportedly handing out iodine to protect Japanese citizens from radioactive exposure.

Explosion Occurs at Japanese Nuclear Plant While Quake, Tsunami Death Toll Rises - FoxNews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/12/shaking-smoke-seen-japanese-nuclear-plant-facing-possible-meltdown/)

[green-lantern]

If the reactor was shutdown like they said there won't be a real meltdown what's happening is that during the shutdown they low cooling so the system shutdown but stayed hot since it couldn't be cooled it built pressure
If it does blow it won't be a melt down but radiation would be release because the primary loop and containment water would be realised and the fuel would be exposed

HTC EVO


But if the reactor wasn't shutdown that's a different story

Also when they say "blank times more radiation than normal" normal is a very very very small number

HTC EVO

You sound like you know a bit about reactors and it seems we are wondering the same thing. I haven't heard hardly anything about the control rods. Are they down or not? If they are down then the reactor should be sub critical and start cooling down. If for some reason they are not and they cant, well they are fucked.

[mb7050]

so they had 18 backup generators and all of them failed :confused:

[green-lantern]

so they had 18 backup generators and all of them failed :confused:

Something seems to be fishy about all this to me. I wouldn't be surprised if they botched something and aren't talking about it yet.

[mb7050]

"emergency diesel generators, however the generators installed to provide backup power for the cooling systems for units 1–3 were damaged by the tsunami;[9] they started up correctly and then stopped abruptly about 1 hour later"

"when the diesel engines failed. Batteries, which last about eight hours, were being used to power the reactor controls and valves during the electrical outage."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/2011-03-12_1800_NHK_S%C5%8Dg%C5%8D_channel_news_program_sc reen_shot.jpg
"Unit 1 is a 439 MW boiling water reactor (BWR3) constructed in July 1967. It commenced commercial electrical production March 26, 1971, and was scheduled for shutdown on March 26, 2011. It was damaged during the 2011 Sendai earthquake and tsunami."


"At 21:00 JST (12:00 GMT) TEPCO announced that they planned to cool the leaking reactor with sea water (started at 8:30pm local time), then using boric acid to act as a neutron poison to prevent a criticality accident.[47] The sea water would take five to ten hours to fill the reactor core, after which it would require seawater cooling for around ten days.[40] At 23:00 JST (14:00 GMT) TEPCO announced that due to the quake at 22:15[48] the filling of the reactor with sea water and boric acid had been stopped."

"At 22:53 JST (13:53 GMT) Tokyo Broadcasting System (TBS) has reported that after the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant explosion, the three patients and all the hospital staff received checkup for radiation exposure, had found that they had to be decontaminated. According to the Fukushima representatives, there was an evacuation of 30 staff members and 60 patients due to the explosion. One out of three people who received the checkup showed "10 million counts per minute" amount of exposure. The other two people showed exposure of 40,000 and 30,000 counts per minute. According to experts, this is a level of radiation exposure from which an individual needs to be decontaminated. All three patients were decontaminated, and the other individuals who were evacuated may also require decontamination."

"At 01:17 JST on Sunday 13th March (16:17 GMT), the Japan Atomic Energy Agency announced that it was rating the Fukushima accident at 4 (accident with local consequences) on the 0–7 International Nuclear Event Scale (INES), below the Three Mile Island accident in seriousness."

Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_I_Nuclear_Power_Plant)

[mb7050]

no word about current situation of control rods anywhere ..

Fukushima I type reactor Disadvantages

"Control rods are inserted from below for current BWR designs. There are two available hydraulic power sources that can drive the control rods into the core for a BWR under emergency conditions. There is a dedicated high pressure hydraulic accumulator and also the pressure inside of the reactor pressure vessel available to each control rod. Either the dedicated accumulator (one per rod) or reactor pressure is capable of fully inserting each rod. Most other reactor types use top entry control rods that are held up in the withdrawn position by electromagnets, causing them to fall into the reactor by gravity if power is lost."

"Though the present fleet of BWRs are less likely to suffer core damage from the 1 in 100,000 reactor-year limiting fault than the present fleet of PWRs are (due to increased ECCS robustness and redundancy) there have been concerns raised about the pressure containment ability of the as-built, unmodified Mark I containment - that such may be insufficient to contain pressures generated by a limiting fault combined with complete ECCS failure that results in extremely severe core damage. In this double worst-case, 1 in 100,000,000 reactor-year scenario, an unmodified Mark I containment is speculated to allow some degree of radioactive release to occur. However, this is mitigated by the modification of the Mark I containment; namely, the addition of an outgas stack system that, if containment pressure exceeds critical setpoints, will allow the orderly discharge of pressurizing gasses after the gasses pass through activated carbon filters designed to trap radionuclides."

[green-lantern]

Funny that they are reporting the activity in CPM (counts per minute). It depends on the instrument and the efficiency of the instrument to determine the activity. Most GM pancake probes are around 10-20% efficient and a lot of people use 10% to be conservative so 30,000 cpm = 300,000 dpm (disintegrations per minute) but if they are using NaI probe then the activity would be much less. In other words a count per minute is just a reaction of the instrument and can vary quite a bit between the type instrument/probe used.

[mb7050]

Early on March 13, an official of the Japan Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency told a news conference that the emergency cooling system of Reactor 3 had failed, spurring an urgent search for a means to supply cooling water to the reactor vessel in order to prevent a meltdown of the No. 3 reactor core

Fukushima I – 3 BWR-4 March 27, 1976 784 MW

reuters: The emergency cooling system is no longer functioning at the Fukushima No. 3 reactor, an official from Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency has told journalists. 2212: Some clarification: It is the number three reactor at the Fukushima No. 1 plant where officials have just announced that the cooling system has failed. This morning's blast took place at the number one reactor at the same plant. "All the functions to keep cooling water levels in No. 3 reactor have failed at the Fukushima No. 1 plant," a spokesman for the operator said.

[MR2]

I don't get it..they are the kings of robots...so send a robot in! do what needs to be done...I assume they have other power plants to the one they are fighting with.

[J. Fast]

They're going to have to release radio active material or that fucker's going to meltdown. Damn, just when you thought things were bad... I suppose this is one of the arguments for clean alternative energy. A lot of people are going to get really fucked up from the exposure. I would suggest they blast a sinkhole in that thing and bury it in the ocean. I bet 100,000 people get contaminated within 24 hours. What would you do green-lantern?

[DuTTch]

Paul what would happen if you could push the whole reactor into the ocean, like if you were to build it on rollers. Like a last resort option.

[DuTTch]

I was surprised at the time with tjernobyl that they were able to just put concrete over it, lots of it.

[mb7050]

I don't get it..they are the kings of robots...so send a robot in! do what needs to be done...I assume they have other power plants to the one they are fighting with.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGc3v50V1_o&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zx739LOE8U&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ob7fVTXdtk&feature=related

[J. Fast]

What I'd be interested in seeing is what sort of containment system they have established. A meltdown won't necessarily result in a release if there's a containment system. Sounds like they just switched to using saltwater and Boron for cooling the reactor. Isn't Boron an acid? Nuclear cooling acid vapor, that hurts my chest when I say that.

[J. Fast]

A long time ago in the service I did some advanced nuclear material handling training in the Mojave desert. My company, an RRD, two SAR units, and a small amphibious escort secured and transported some depleted uranium. I don't know jack shit about Nuclear Reactors, but I do know handing radio active material is no joke. My brother in law worked as a land surveyor for Kirkham Michael and Paragon about 15 years ago when they were cleaning up Rocky Flats here in Colorado. After working there for one year he was diagnosed with several different types of cancer. He was 24 years old, no family history.

[mb7050]

and bad exposion to radiation mutates your genes and it carries on for generation to come. its really horrible . mayby you have seen those children of chernobyl really really sad many of them not even look human

[IPD]

and bad radiation mutates your genes and it carries on for generation to come. its really horrible . mayby you have seen those children of chernobyl really really sad many of them not even look human

send chuck norris to piss on it. that should solve everything.

[MR2]

We need the terminator.

seriously though, the radio active waste cannot be dumped into the ocean or any other method of exposing it to the elements where it can leach into the environment (your drinking water..the fish we eat's drinking water etc) but I swear a well designed robot even if it was directly human controlled would be useful.

just power the robot with a nuclear reactor :p

[enollava]

I'm gonna go all duttch and deny the earthquake even happened.

Let me know if what I just said was a little inappropriate. :) couldn't resist.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

What I'd be interested in seeing is what sort of containment system they have established. A meltdown won't necessarily result in a release if there's a containment system. Sounds like they just switched to using saltwater and Boron for cooling the reactor. Isn't Boron an acid? Nuclear cooling acid vapor, that hurts my chest when I say that.

boron is a nuclear inhibitor.

The reactor has a 6 inch stainless steel containment box afaik.

[TT4ME]

send chuck norris to piss on it. that should solve everything.

Isn't Charlie Sheen the new Chuck Norris? He could get Japan back on the "winning" track!

[mb7050]

seriously though, the radio active waste cannot be dumped into the ocean or any other method of exposing it to the elements where it can leach into the environment (your drinking water..the fish we eat's drinking water etc) but I swear a well designed robot even if it was directly human controlled would be useful.


yea but in russia however, everything is possible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR1wo5s3Ua4&feature=related

[J. Fast]

boron is a nuclear inhibitor.

The reactor has a 6 inch stainless steel containment box afaik.

Nuclear inhibitor what does that mean? Does that mean it does the opposite of iodine? Does that mean it actually accelerates radiation absorption?

[mb7050]

Cooling problems at unit 3

At 7:30 JST TEPCO was preparing to release radioactive steam, indicating that "the amount of radiation to be released would be small and not of a level that would affect human health"

[IPD]

I'm gonna go all duttch and deny the earthquake even happened.

Let me know if what I just said was a little inappropriate. :) couldn't resist.

not as far as i'm concerned. did you see the posts i've already contributed? :p

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Nuclear inhibitor what does that mean? Does that mean it does the opposite of iodine? Does that mean it actually accelerates radiation absorption?

it means it slows and tries to stop the nuclear reaction. It absorbs neutrons that are sustaining the reaction.

Reducing the nuclear reaction will cool it and could help prevent a meltdown.

[J. Fast]

Cooling problems at unit 3

At 7:30 JST TEPCO was preparing to release radioactive steam, indicating that "the amount of radiation to be released would be small and not of a level that would affect human health"

Enough that the level of exposure would be equivalent to the amount of radiation which the average man is exposed to in one year... in one hour. So in 8 Hours that's eight years of bio-accumulation is that correctly stated? Or is there only a certain amount that can be absorbed?

[J. Fast]

it means it slows and tries to stop the nuclear reaction. It absorbs neutrons that are sustaining the reaction.

Reducing the nuclear reaction will cool it and could help prevent a meltdown.

I know jack shit about Nuclear reactivity so I'm prolly way off on interpretation from what you stated. So the intent of boron is to slow the initial amount of waste? The amount of waste will be the same in the long run but it's decay rate is slowed? Since it's slowed it requires less cooling? This is safer for the time being and a temportary fix?

[enollava]

not as far as i'm concerned. did you see the posts i've already contributed? :p

No, I'm being the jacks who jumps into a thread without reading it. Just couldn't help posting after seeing he posted. I feel like being a jerk tonight. Must be my male time of the month.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I know jack shit about Nuclear reactivity so I'm prolly way off on interpretation from what you stated. So the intent of boron is to slow the initial amount of waste? The amount of waste will be the same in the long run but it's decay rate is slowed? Since it's slowed it requires less cooling? This is safer for the time being and a temportary fix?

okay, when the quake happened the reactor safety computer controls automatically "scrammed" the reactor. That is to say they moved the cadmium rods into the position between the fuel rods that lessens the chain reaction the most. This is basically the "off" state of the reactor. The cadmium absords free neutrons from the uranium or plutonium fuel rods that otherwise contribute to the nuclear chain reaction and produce the heat that is harvested for energy.

The reactor is then in a very low power state and produces far less heat, but the reactor can't really ever be completed shut down unless the fuel rods become depleted and removed. This is a lot like an engine idleing.

You couldn't idle an engine forever without a radiator, and you can't have a nuclear reactor without coolant either. Even if it is "off" it still produces lot of heat.

The primary and secondary backup cooling systems have failed or are not performing well enough to keep the temperature down.

The fuel rods will continue to get hotter and hotter until they reach 5000 degrees fahrenheit which is the approx melting point of the uranium or plutonium. At that point the fuel rods themselves will turn to liquid and try to burn through the stainless steel containment shell and then eventually through the concrete shell. Then the radioctive liquid fuel can get into the outside of the plant and enourmous amounts of radiation get into the enviroment. This is a MELTDOWN.

The boron will act like the cadium and absorb free nuetrons, helping to cool the reaction and hopefully keep the fuel rods from ever melting.

Now I am not a nuclear engineer, but I have studied this over the years, so if some of my technical details are slightly off forgive me, but that is the jist of it.

[onebadmollafolla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LPGzzaSsbU

[mb7050]

BTW if you want a good read? This is my favorite web page. It's just awesome!

KIDDofSPEED - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures - Kidofspeed - Elena (http://www.kiddofspeed.com/)


Chapter one
GHOST TOWN - KiddofSpeed - Chernobyl Pictures - Kidofspeed - Elena (http://www.kiddofspeed.com/chapter1.html)

thanks ! A very great reading and very good pics .

[onebadmollafolla]

Another absolutely insane video.

BBC News - Japan earthquake: Footage of moment tsunami hit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12725646)

Also, before and after picture you can toggle with your mouse.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm

[zapman2000]

I was trying to keep it simple but as hump said its crammed state is basicly off
And pumping sea water into it should be more than enough to keep it cooling

Also yes there is a max amount of radiation you can absorb any more is an amount that would be instant death

Careful when you read about radiation counts most radiacs very in the way they read
Yes I know a little about reactors but mainly radiation due to my job I'm active duty Missile Technician on SSBNs
You can Google Missile Technician and see what I do since I can't say it

HTC EVO

[YoshiBishi]

The aliens are coming!!!!

Quick, everyone spend all their money on their TTs while you still can!

[zapman2000]

Also I guaranty that any thing that doesn't fail instantly after a 9.0earth quake is pretty damn safe
American reactors are rated at 7.0-7.6 if the people were more accepting of nuclear power we wouldn't have outdated civilian reactors but the media makes it sound worse than it actually is
nuclear power research is no long allowed we can't build any more reactors for the civilian world
So we won't ever get any safer in this field
HTC EVO

[green-lantern]

They're going to have to release radio active material or that fucker's going to meltdown. Damn, just when you thought things were bad... I suppose this is one of the arguments for clean alternative energy. A lot of people are going to get really fucked up from the exposure. I would suggest they blast a sinkhole in that thing and bury it in the ocean. I bet 100,000 people get contaminated within 24 hours. What would you do green-lantern?


Paul what would happen if you could push the whole reactor into the ocean, like if you were to build it on rollers. Like a last resort option.

IDK about that, you might cause more environmental damage dropping fuel rods into the ocean. Most of my experience isn't directly working with reactors but dealing with the waste and decommissioning weapons grade enrichment facilities but I do have some experience with several research reactors at Oak Ridge National Laboratory. All of them seemed to be quite different from the others but the same basic principle. Geometry and enrichment of the fuel to reach a critical state (basically the reaction doesn't increase or decrease). This is regulated with some sort of moderator like control rods. They basically go between the fuel and they raise and lower them to increase and decrease the reaction.

It appears in japan even though (I'm assuming) the control rods are down and the reactor is sub critical the heat is building up because the lack of a cooling system. They are worried the fuel could overheat and change geometry and reach a super critical state. I assume I'd do the same thing they are doing but I have been under the impression once the control rods are down the reactor starts cooling. I guess to avoid overheating and meltdown it could be better to dunk the thing into the ocean if possible. There are other things to think about when doing something like that though. I'm not sure how the cooling system is designed but you can cause a criticality by water surrounding fuel. I'm pretty sure most fuel is designed in a geometry and enrichment to avoid this but the neutrons can bounce back off of water molecules and cause the rod to react by itself.

I still think there might be some sort of screw up on japans part letting this get out of hand.

[mb7050]

I still think there might be some sort of screw up on japans part letting this get out of hand.

I agree its all really hazy there , but 9.0 earthquake combined with huge tsunami that hit the plant hard, no wonder. makes me really wonder tho why they build nuclear plants there on such unstable grounds in the first place ..

[mb7050]

before
http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/images/beforeafter/fukushima-nuclear-plant-1.jpg
after
http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/images/beforeafter/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2.jpg



cutaway of the reactor
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhzb23MSpu1qbnrqd.jpg

http://allthingsnuclear.org/post/3824043948/update-on-fukushima-reactor
http://www.nirs.org/factsheets/bwrfact.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_water_reactor

[zapman2000]

It's built next to the ocean for this very reason think if it was inland now were would you get sea water to cool the reactor from and in an emergency it would be worse

The reactors they have have rods that have to be pushed up instead of free fall rods

HTC EVO

[mb7050]

the Tokyo Electric Power Company has a history of ‘damage cover up and data falsification but in case sucks as this they are in big trouble if they do/did so and get caught...

http://cnic.jp/english/newsletter/nit92/nit92img/Fukushima1.gif

http://cnic.jp/english/newsletter/nit92/nit92img/Fukushima2.gif

[green-lantern]

The reactors they have have rods that have to be pushed up instead of free fall rods

HTC EVO

That seems like a very bad idea to me. I would at least like to rely on good ole gravity to insert the rods if needed in worst case situation.

[mb7050]

That seems like a very bad idea to me. I would at least like to rely on good ole gravity to insert the rods if needed in worst case situation.

yea but if im not mistaken there are 44 reactors of this type in the US

[green-lantern]

yea but if im not mistaken there are 44 reactors of this type in the US

I think I heard on the news we do have some just like this.

[MR2]

sounds like a lot of shit comming from their reactor companies(in Japan)....anyone else notice they're not really telling you exactly what's going on and what they are or are not doing about it? no word or footage of people ACTUALLY going in there...or what level of remote control they have over the facility...

I just don't see how hard they are making it to get some water in there...we got people on the moon...replacing a deisel generator or 2 and a pump to circulate some fluids really should not be so hard!

[green-lantern]

sounds like a lot of shit comming from their reactor companies(in Japan)....anyone else notice they're not really telling you exactly what's going on and what they are or are not doing about it? no word or footage of people ACTUALLY going in there...or what level of remote control they have over the facility...

I just don't see how hard they are making it to get some water in there...we got people on the moon...replacing a deisel generator or 2 and a pump to circulate some fluids really should not be so hard!

The ringlands broke in the reactor. They need to tear it all apart and fix it properly.

[mb7050]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UZuNI7Yk2k&
hes making some good points.

i guees you will know how bad it is when/if they start to fill it with sand and concrete ..

afterall these reactors are very old, at the end of their design life

[CoopKill]

The ringlands broke in the reactor. They need to tear it all apart and fix it properly.

:suspect: :lmao: :suspect:

[mb7050]

The ringlands broke in the reactor. They need to tear it all apart and fix it properly.

hmm maby steve could chime in and educate us.

[MR2]

Buwahaha.

[J. Fast]

Another absolutely insane video.

BBC News - Japan earthquake: Footage of moment tsunami hit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12725646)

Also, before and after picture you can toggle with your mouse.

ABC News - Japan Earthquake: before and after (http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm)

That second link is pretty sweet!

[mcshooter]

just saw on fox news another explosion in the number 3 plant and they also expect a 10 foot wave to hit japan monday morning

[mb7050]

, i guess the explosion is similar what happened at the number 1(hydrogen gas) but where and why is the 10foot wave coming from

[mcshooter]

the 10 foot wave has been cancelled, they dont say why there was a warning. one thing you dont see in japan is the looting ..

[Ninja Performance]

The ringlands broke in the reactor. They need to tear it all apart and fix it properly.

Almost fell out of chair LOL

-Chris

[3KVT]

what a terrible tragedy. My heart goes out to the families who lost loved ones.

[green-lantern]

one thing you dont see in japan is the looting ..

Nope, it makes you look at Katrina with disgust, doesn’t it?

[Telionis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5-zfCBCq-8I

[MR2]

Nope, it makes you look at Katrina with disgust, doesn’t it?

I'm a little cautious on this one....I'd look at it as there is no looting being reported.

[mb7050]

no.3 reactor explosion ( 119 are reported as being in hospital with radiation poisoning because of the eeactor 3 explosion. )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVp2NnY16g0

doesnt sound too good, they have been unable to vent the pressure inside the reactor no.2. so now they are planning to breach the no.2 containment vessel themselves by drilling holes to relieve pressure to prevent an explosive rupture.


The fuel rods in the No 2 reactor at a quake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in Japan are again "fully exposed" officials said early on Tuesday morning Japan time after attempts to pump more seawater into the core of the reactor to cool down the uranium fuel rods were thwarted by massive pressure build ups.

The more time that passes with fuel rods uncovered by water and the pressure inside the containment vessel unvented, the greater the risk that the containment vessel will crack or explode, creating a potentially catastrophic release of radioactive material into the atmosphere — an accident that would be by far the worst to confront the nuclear power industry since the explosion of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant 25 years ago.

Tokyo Electric Power Co, which runs the plant, said that it presumed some of the fuel rods were broken, based on radiation detected in the environment, World Nuclear News reported.

If more of the fuel melts before water can be injected in the vessel, the fuel pellets could burn through the bottom of the containment vessel and radioactive material could pour out that way — a full meltdown scenario.

“They’re basically in a full-scale panic” said a senior nuclear industry executive late Monday night of the Japanese power industry.

“They’re in total disarray, they don’t know what to do,” he said.

That built up enough pressure inside the reactor vessel to block the flow of cooling water into the reactor, leading to full exposure of the rods at around 11pm Tokyo time on Monday, TEPCO said. Officials were said to be considering the option of drilling holes in the reactor vessel to relieve the pressure, said Bellona nuclear physicist Nils Bøhmer said.

But Bøhmer’s prognosis was not optimistic. He said that with the fuel rods now exposed to air with no coolant in the reactor vessel, the fuel rods will begin to melt and the lack of water to bear away thermal energy will only increase pressure inside the reactor vessel, which would lead to a rupture.

“When there is no water, more and more stream builds up within the reactor vessel and thus more and more pressure,” said Bøhmer. “That leads to heat build ups to a point of 2,200 degree Celcius where you get melting of fuel as well as pressure breaking the reactor vessel.”

The extreme challenge of managing reactor No. 2 came as officials were still struggling to keep the cores of two other reactors, No. 1 and No. 3, covered with seawater.

Both reactors No 1 and 3 are presumed to have already suffered partial meltdowns – a dangerous situation that, if unchecked, could lead to a full meltdown.

According to an ex-government official in japan who spoke with Bellona Web on conditions of anonymity, confirmed the chronology of events from Monday to Tuesday at the No. 2 reactor.

Earlier efforts to inject seawater and Boron coolant into the reactor had failed when pump that had been infusing the seawater into the reactor's core ran out of fuel, and no other fuel could be found to power the pump.

The water flow was eventually restored, he said, raising hopes that there would be no baleful results. But the build up of pressure that had precluded further injections has dashed those hopes.

[eljefefx]

Fukishima reactor #2 just exploded.

[green-lantern]

Oh shit!!! :sad:

[mb7050]

this time they think that the suppression pool(torus) may be damaged and that a possible meltdown of the radioactive rods is underway
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a1/Bwr-rpv.svg/1000px-Bwr-rpv.svg.png
http://www.nucleartourist.com/images/bwr-cycle.gif
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhzb23MSpu1qbnrqd.jpg

[mb7050]

hope they are wrong

[eljefefx]

hope they are wrong

It was confirmed by NHK, Japanese news agency and by the Japanese government.

[mb7050]

oh shit just heard on the news that Reactor is now in for possible full meltdown. The floor of the reactor has been breached, so it can no longer hold coolant.

[MR2]

you'd think...in this day and age....


anyway.

[green-lantern]

This sucks!

Maybe I'll be going to Japan.

[eljefefx]

you'd think...in this day and age....


anyway.

There isn't much that a 9.0 earthquake isn't going to fuck up.

[MR2]

the buildings were mostly intact enough...they've had days to do something, international offerings for anyone any expert anywhere...

[IPD]

There isn't much that a 9.0 earthquake isn't going to fuck up.

man has prided himself on conquering nature for over 2000 years. nature has been trying to take it back since.

fwiw,

anything 8.0 or higher is going to fuck shit up. a LOT of shit up. bad stuff happens below that, but above 8.0 is where man's ability to "out-engineer nature" is left wanting.

[J. Fast]

I'm pretty surprised the news correspondants and public within a 50 mile radius aren't dosing potassium iodide or talking about it right now. Radiation exposure for people in that country is inevitable. Once those people are internally contaminated they're done for, thyroid problems forever. I mean, you know the plant is bleeding radiation right now. Is a 30k evacuation radius really enough room for a nuclear reactor bleed off? Isn't that like 20 miles, seems too close for comfort to me. Hell, 5 times that seems too close!

[Granny]

Everyone is worried about man destroying Mother Nature.
Looks like it’s doing a good job of puking man off the earth the past few years.

[MR2]

not really..when nature starts killing in the millions then it'll be making inroads.

[mb7050]

today:

workers at the plant had been placed on standby because of the dangerously rising levels of radioactivity up to 1000 mSv/h

TEPCO had temporarily suspended operations at the facility due to radiation spikes and had pulled all their employees out.

A TEPCO press release stated that workers had been withdrawn at 06:00 JST because of abnormal noises coming from one of the reactor pressure suppression chambers.

makes me wonder if the worst case scenario happens, will they just run away and let the reactors meltdown one by one ..?

[colt45 gto]

it sounds hungry. i bet it was one of the workers stomachs rumbling due to hunger?

on a serious note, i wouldn't want to be within 20 mile of that if its going to melt down

[mb7050]

I'm pretty surprised the news correspondants and public within a 50 mile radius aren't dosing potassium iodide or talking about it right now. Radiation exposure for people in that country is inevitable. Once those people are internally contaminated they're done for, thyroid problems forever. I mean, you know the plant is bleeding radiation right now. Is a 30k evacuation radius really enough room for a nuclear reactor bleed off? Isn't that like 20 miles, seems too close for comfort to me. Hell, 5 times that seems too close!

its no chernobyl "yet" and probably never be but look at what happened when chernobyl exploded and melted. they even had to kill all the exposed reindeers in lapland(thousands of miles away from Chernobyl) due to bad radiation poisoning.
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/image47.3.jpg
http://bhavanajagat.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/radiation-map-chernobyl-disaster.jpg

[IPD]

the construction of FSU reactors vs. the construction of japanese/american reactors is so different as to not even be in the same ballpark. i would bet that the worst of what happens with japan is about 10% of what happened with chernobyl.

[TUFFTR]

lets fucking hope so!

[mb7050]

the major difference beetween BWR(fukushima) and RBMK(chernobyl) is the RBMK's lack of a massive steel and/or concrete containment structure as the final barrier against large releases of radiation in an accident..

[zapman2000]

its sad if you listen to the NRC they talk about what info they have saying that at the time of the quake only one of the reactors was shut down!!

the other 3 were still operating!

why would you shut down only one, this is a mistake on the japan's part for not following the proper procedure
you think they would realize the difference between loss of electricity for everyone and a nuclear accident

[mb7050]

this is also very very sad news:
radiation inside unit 4 had increased so much inside the control room that employees could not stay there permanently any more.

TEPCO was reported to be unable to pour water into No. 4 reactor's storage pool for spent fuel.

TEPCO officials acknowledged it was possible the spent fuel rods are uncovered and overheating.




today:
In the afternoon it was reported by TEPCO that the Unit 4 spent fuel pool is full with water and none of the fuel rods are exposed

[mb7050]

my respect to all those working at the plant

[jbuhrman]

its sad if you listen to the NRC they talk about what info they have saying that at the time of the quake only one of the reactors was shut down!!

the other 3 were still operating!

why would you shut down only one, this is a mistake on the japan's part for not following the proper procedure
you think they would realize the difference between loss of electricity for everyone and a nuclear accident


When the earthquake hit it knocked power out originaly, they brought up emergency generators for cooling, obviously their 1st worry was getting cooling back in order. I am sure by the time they started to think about shutting anything down the tsunami had already hit at which point it knocked the back up generators out and they lost the ability to cool the rods.


I hate hearing people state about how japan never should have put the reactors near the sea and blah blah... all of these people have never been to japan so you don't know that there is not much buildable land in japan due to all the mountains
The last I heard before before going underway was that the fault line was cracking under japan causing all the new earth quakes.

Its mostly scary due to my wife's brothers live in Tokyo and are affected by earthquakes now from this almost everyday...

[beepbeep]

Its mostly scary due to my wife's brothers live in Tokyo and are affected by earthquakes now from this almost everyday...

Been thinking about you guys....I hope all of her family is safely outside of the US recommended evac zone.

[jbuhrman]

Been thinking about you guys....I hope all of her family is safely outside of the US recommended evac zone.

Well she has 2 brothers that live in Tokyo, Im not too sure where or anything. The rest of her brothers/sisters and parents live in Osaka so they would more than likely just head down to visit. Which is plenty of distance away from the area.

[zapman2000]

When the earthquake hit it knocked power out originaly, they brought up emergency generators for cooling, obviously their 1st worry was getting cooling back in order. I am sure by the time they started to think about shutting anything down the tsunami had already hit at which point it knocked the back up generators out and they lost the ability to cool the rods.


I don't think you know much about nuclear reactors they had cooling for a little while till the generators failed most important thing when running on backup power for a reactor is to shut it down

BTW I was Wong they did shut all of them off just not fast enough to cool them off before the lost backup power

PS
Backup power should equal time it takes to shut down into an "off state"
Off state is a relative term

HTC EVO

[zapman2000]

I hate hearing people state about how japan never should have put the reactors near the sea and blah blah... all of these people have never been to japan so you don't know that there is not much buildable land in japan due to all the mountains


It's not about buildable land, you build a reactor next to the sea for easy access to water nothing else its the most economical place to build one.

You could easy build one in the mountains if you had water source and money

HTC EVO