My Thoughts on the eManage Ultimate

[HLxDrummer]

I made a similar thread to this one for the eManage Blue (see my signature) and figured I would make one for the eManage Ultimate as well. There is a lot of information on the other forum if you search emanage ultimate as well.

The Ultimate has several advantages over the Blue.

One of my favorite is that you can adjust fuel based on MAP. I had my MAP sensor wired into the TPS input of my old Blue, but then I had to make a spreadsheet saying what "TPS %" corresponded with what PSI/etc and was a bit of a pain. It was also difficult to "calibrate" the TPS. With the Ultimate, I can wire everything normally and tune based on TPS OR MAP. Of course I am using MAP, but I still have the TPS wired in for things like the two step.

The Ultimate also offers the ability to switch between two maps using the dip switches on the unit itself. This is great for people like me who plan to have an E85 map. This way when I need to fill up on pump again, I don't need my laptop.

The Ultimate can do direct injector control. This means as I tune my car for whatever setup, my timing will NOT change. This is great for bigger injectors, ethanol conversions, etc. For my setup (9Bs) I plan to tune from wastegate to somewhere around 17-18 psi for the AFR the car wants. I will then make logs of various boost levels/timing and see what makes the most power. This is much better IMO, than adjusting airflow signal then randomly adding/taking away timing. With this setup I can keep stock timing but add advance where the 9Bs drop off, for example. This is also nice as you can tune AFR at idle. As some have noticed, with an SAFC, adjusting airflow at low Hz readings won't change anything as the ECU ignores airflow readings below a certain point. However, with the eManage you are actually adjusting at the injector level so as long as you tune for stoich it works fine.

The Ultimate can also do little fancy things like MAP conversion, two step, etc. I have already played with the two step and I am excited to try it out once I get my TC brace on this week. At 3,700 RPM and WOT it builds about 3 psi of boost. I can also retard the timing a bit during this to build even more boost but I'm not sure if it's worth it yet as it will heat up the turbo a ton.

The Ultimate also has a decent data logging feature which I plan to use with some type of virtual dyno software to adjust boost/timing for maximum power on the street.

As with the Blue you can still adjust airflow if you want to get rid of fuel cut, and you can still use subinjector pins to control boost.

It is also nice that the Ultimate uses a USB cable instead of a serial port.


The downsides:
If you want full injector control (stage 3), you need the CEL adapter which is about $60.

It is a more intensive installation compared to the Blue.

It is more expensive.

I was originally looking at the Honda EMS but I think this is a great compromise between a standalone and a basic SAFC/SITC. I'm sure I will add more information as I use it more but hopefully this little review is helpful. I think this is one of the best piggybacks out there as I have fuel, timing, boost control and little things like two step all in one unit for ~$600.

Hopefully I can make some decent power/times out of my 164,000 mile VR4 with this thing :p

Let me know if you have any questions!


(I would like to thank Ketihmac and Forest Gump for all their help with this stuff as well!)

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

the full injector control is simply awesome... the car does what I want now.

[HLxDrummer]

the full injector control is simply awesome... the car does what I want now.

Glad you like it! Big improvement over the Blue/SAFC? I'm glad to see you went stage 3! You need to take it to the track again with the new setup.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Glad you like it! Big improvement over the Blue/SAFC? I'm glad to see you went stage 3! You need to take it to the track again with the new setup.

yeah I got some tuning to do first! Much better than the blue because of the additional options, but the blue was MUCH better than an SAFC.

Once of the things I enjoy the most is the very fast datalogging the emu can do.

I have a ton of tuning to do still, I have the airflow adjustment zero'd out and I am doing everything in i/j correction. Right now I have a part throttle lean spot and wot is so rich above 4500 it cuts out (pegged 10.0 AFR). Once I get that straightened out I'm going to set the boost limiting and tune that way so the computer gets stock numbers below 14.5 PSI.

After I get that working well I'm ditching the maf. The tune will be pretty easy, I just haven't placed with it much, just got done doing my alignment which was a greater priority for me since I just got new tires and changed my struts.c

[HLxDrummer]

yeah I got some tuning to do first! Much better than the blue because of the additional options, but the blue was MUCH better than an SAFC.

Once of the things I enjoy the most is the very fast datalogging the emu can do.

I have a ton of tuning to do still, I have the airflow adjustment zero'd out and I am doing everything in i/j correction. Right now I have a part throttle lean spot and wot is so rich above 4500 it cuts out (pegged 10.0 AFR). Once I get that straightened out I'm going to set the boost limiting and tune that way so the computer gets stock numbers below 14.5 PSI.

After I get that working well I'm ditching the maf. The tune will be pretty easy, I just haven't placed with it much, just got done doing my alignment which was a greater priority for me since I just got new tires and changed my struts.c

Sounds fun :) Let me know how it goes without the MAF. If it goes smoothly I may follow in your footsteps!

[Gearheadvr4]

Would you still prefer this over an AEM or flash 99 ecu?

I have the MAFT pro with speed density ready to install. I like it and I could always get the car to run OK on my old vr4 but I could never get the hang of it trying to tune it on my own.

[HLxDrummer]

Would you still prefer this over an AEM or flash 99 ecu?

I have the MAFT pro with speed density ready to install. I like it and I could always get the car to run OK on my old vr4 but I could never get the hang of it trying to tune it on my own.

To be honest I've never tuned an AEM or a flashable ECU.

I think each have their advantages.

AEM offers full control which I LOVE but takes a long time to setup by yourself. The flashable is very nice (especially if you already have the ECU). If it would have come out sooner and could guarantee additional features like speed density and two step I would have gone this route if the price was comparable to the eManage Ultimate. I have a feeling it will be closer to $800 by the time it's all said and done, however (ECU, harness, cables, software, etc).

I think the eManage is very easy to use in terms of software. They give you a map with a bunch of cells. Load on one axis, RPM on the other. Turn on MAP tracing and it will show you the cell you are currently in and ones you were in. Just look at logs/wideband/etc. and adjust the cells you were just in/are in currently. You can also tune based on MAP so one tune it good for whatever boost level you would like to run. All the maps are the same basically whether you are tuning fuel, timing, or boost.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

[MR2]

I've had one with all accessories in my garage for like a year now :| just cannot get the rest of the car to the stage where I feel I want more power yet.

[Gearheadvr4]

I'll take it off your hands...

[KeithMac]

I love mine, stoich idle (all the time..) on PTE780`s with straight petrol is great!. I`ve changed fuel a few times (straight petrol/ E85/ Methanol mixes) and it`s nicce to only have to tune the fuel injector map and be done with it.

[Gearheadvr4]

What Is map tracing?

[HLxDrummer]

Map tracing is a feature in the software. When it is turned on, it will highlight the cells in the various maps that you are currently in and, if you chose, the cells that you were previously in. For example, at idle it will highlight the cell that corresponds to the RPM and load you are at. This is nice if you want to adjust your idle AFR, for example. No guessing which cell you are in, it simply shows you.

Since my car is stock injector still, I use the map trace the most when WOT tuning. I hit reset (so no cells are highlighted), do a pull, and coast to a safe parking place. All of the cells I was in during the pull are highlighted so I look at my logger and if at 6,000 RPM my wideband was lean, I go to 6,000 RPM on the EMU and it shows me what load cell I was in. Theoretically this shouldn't be an issue as it should be a set boost the whole pull, but as you can guess it is hard to get boost dead on throughout a pull.

This feature is not really needed if you are tuning based on TPS like with an SAFC since you can read the TPS values and RPM values to find your cell. And obviously WOT would be the highest throttle reading..

[FeaRpb]

Nice review.

[B-Man]

Are all of you still using the MAF?

[HLxDrummer]

I'm still on the stock MAF but if Forest has good luck switching over I may as well. Your off of it right? Weren't you having some issues?

[RL7]

One of my favorite is that you can adjust fuel based on MAP. I had my MAP sensor wired into the TPS input of my old Blue, but then I had to make a spreadsheet saying what "TPS %" corresponded with what PSI/etc and was a bit of a pain. It was also difficult to "calibrate" the TPS. With the Ultimate, I can wire everything normally and tune based on TPS OR MAP. Of course I am using MAP, but I still have the TPS wired in for things like the two step.



I'm pretty sure the blue can adjust fuel via MAP as well. I don't have it in front of me but I'm 99% positive one of my blue fuel maps is pressure in kPa vs. RPM. I use the greddy map sensor and the injector harness, so I don't know if that makes a difference.

[B-Man]

Yeah, tip-in has become a bitch but I'm not using a Hz Map built off my setup, I'm using Grayson's map.

Using both Throttle vs RPM and MAP vs RPM has greatly helped though. I haven't finished tuning this way yet.

[KeithMac]

I run a ported MAS with the Mellon bypass mod (filter under the bubble). The AFR`s are so repeatable with that setup I`m loathe to ditch it for true SD. For me the gains wouldn`t outweigh the drawbacks.

[KeithMac]

I'm pretty sure the blue can adjust fuel via MAP as well. I don't have it in front of me but I'm 99% positive one of my blue fuel maps is pressure in kPa vs. RPM. I use the greddy map sensor and the injector harness, so I don't know if that makes a difference.

You can`t adjust the main Karman Airflow map in the Blue with the Greddy Pressure Sensor, that load option is not available for that map.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

so far I am enjoying the air fuel target map a ton....

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Yeah, tip-in has become a bitch but I'm not using a Hz Map built off my setup, I'm using Grayson's map.

Using both Throttle vs RPM and MAP vs RPM has greatly helped though. I haven't finished tuning this way yet.

I like his setup and I am approaching things exactly the same way, but I was really afraid to use someone else's map since I wouldn't understand it 100%. Maybe my results will not be perfect, but I feel good knowing what's going on.

[B-Man]

I like his setup and I am approaching things exactly the same way, but I was really afraid to use someone else's map since I wouldn't understand it 100%. Maybe my results will not be perfect, but I feel good knowing what's going on.

Problem is, 10psi@50% throttle doesn't have the same Hz as 10psi@100% throttle.

[HLxDrummer]

I run a ported MAS with the Mellon bypass mod (filter under the bubble). The AFR`s are so repeatable with that setup I`m loathe to ditch it for true SD. For me the gains wouldn`t outweigh the drawbacks.

Does the little filter make a decent difference in performance? I've considered doing this but I like have my Evo DV recirculated..

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Problem is, 10psi@50% throttle doesn't have the same Hz as 10psi@100% throttle.

makes sense.

Can you use i/j map 2 and use TPS scaling on it?

[B-Man]

makes sense.

Can you use i/j map 2 and use TPS scaling on it?


Yeah, tip-in has become a bitch but I'm not using a Hz Map built off my setup, I'm using Grayson's map.

Using both Throttle vs RPM and MAP vs RPM has greatly helped though. I haven't finished tuning this way yet.

I'm just not finished to be able to say whether it's the right way to go or not. I've been driving company cars and have been slowly losing interest in my car. At this point I've been recommending people stay with a MAS of some sort. I wish I had so I could've enjoyed the car a little more.

[KeithMac]

Does the little filter make a decent difference in performance? I've considered doing this but I like have my Evo DV recirculated..

I used it to drop airflow though the MAS so I could ultimately meter more air flow (aiming for 30psi).

Table below was 2 runs, one with the Snakeskinner ported MAS, the next with the bypass added..

rpm boost psi Ported Hz Mellon Hz
4250 20 1810 1551
4800 21 2139 1834
5200 21 2370 2018
5500 21 2426 2113
6000 21 2637 2148
6500 21 2712 2260

[KeithMac]

For some reason it`s ignored the tabs so you`ll have to space it out..

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

hey guys what hz are you hitting fuel cut. I think I'm hitting fuel cut around 2400-2500 hz.

nvm:

here is the airflow clamp posted by Graz Haze:
2336

At 4112 RPM I'm hitting 1682 Hz, so I am way past the recommended clamp value. I didn't think I'd hit fuel cut so soon, only running 13.4 PSI at that moment. May have boost leaks?

[TurboSinceBirth]

I wish I would have saved my Stage 3 speed density EMU setup. I like how the software worked and it made it easy using Grayson's map. I may get another one again before deciding on a flashed ECU or AEM series 2.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

well FYI the boost limiter works great except it is of course a bit tough to rough in the afr at the transition points since I don't know exactly what PSI equates to airflow yet and my car seems to be reading a ton of air compared to other maps.

I'm really glad I didn't use someone else's airflow map. I have to have a football sized boost leak somewhere. Data sampling is showing peak of 2902Hz at 5000 and 11.6 PSI. 2780hz at 7000 14.5 PSI. Obviously these are different pulls, but the picture shows a lot more airflow than I would expect, even for an unmolested stock maf. I wonder if I have a NA maf...

I almost have enough airflow data to make my speed density map, but I think I'll pressure test first.

Looks like I can hit about 14.5PSI by 3500 in 2nd. I'm planning on doing a long 3rd gear pull on stock maf once I have the tune a bit better, then I can do one after switching to speed density for a direct comparison of spool up.

Edit, I think that 2902 Hz area is an anomaly. 8.7 PSI at 5000 shows 2666 HZ, then 11.6 PSI shows 2902, then 14.5 PSI shows 2727. I'll have to interpolate between those points.

[KeithMac]

hey guys what hz are you hitting fuel cut. I think I'm hitting fuel cut around 2400-2500 hz.

nvm:

here is the airflow clamp posted by Graz Haze:
2336

At 4112 RPM I'm hitting 1682 Hz, so I am way past the recommended clamp value. I didn't think I'd hit fuel cut so soon, only running 13.4 PSI at that moment. May have boost leaks?

Fuelcut Hz varies with RPM, I`ve hit fuelcut at 3000 rpm before while experimenting with the Airflow map!.

I think I hit 3100hz at 20psi in 2nd gear with stock MAS so your airflow readings seem a bit high as you say Forest.

[bboyalan]

I run a ported MAS with the Mellon bypass mod (filter under the bubble). The AFR`s are so repeatable with that setup I`m loathe to ditch it for true SD. For me the gains wouldn`t outweigh the drawbacks.
Cool! I had no idea that others tried his bypass modification with similar success. Someone should push the Evolution 8 MAS with an EMU for kicks. I might go for it if/when I can ever get another VR-4. There is a local 16T/EMB VR-4 owner who has been considering this for a while already.

I will be doing a 13T/EMU VR-4 real soon on E85 again, so that should be interesting. I am just transferring his 2G Boomslang EMU harnesses over to a 1G patch harness.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Fuelcut Hz varies with RPM, I`ve hit fuelcut at 3000 rpm before while experimenting with the Airflow map!.

I think I hit 3100hz at 20psi in 2nd gear with stock MAS so your airflow readings seem a bit high as you say Forest.

yeah I don't trust the data sampling map completely.

I've since logged:
2562 Hz at 5500 RPM and 17.4 PSI
2780 Hz at 7000 RPM and 14.5 PSI

Which seem to be a lot closer to the ballpark.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Cool! I had no idea that others tried his bypass modification with similar success. Someone should push the Evolution 8 MAS with an EMU for kicks. I might go for it if/when I can ever get another VR-4. There is a local 16T/EMB VR-4 owner who has been considering this for a while already.

I will be doing a 13T/EMU VR-4 real soon on E85 again, so that should be interesting. I am just transferring his 2G Boomslang EMU harnesses over to a 1G patch harness.

I ran mellon's bypass for several months. It worked really well and was simple to tune around.

I had to go back to a recirc BOV due to some part throttle pulsing I've had with these turbos and fmic though.

Somewhat off topic, I don't think I'm going to try it, but shouldn't it be possible to use a hot wire mas with the ultimate? Why couldn't you setup an airflow output map with the greddy pressure sensor (volts) as the scale and use the hotwire maf's output as the pressure sensor input? Maybe not enough resolution?

[KeithMac]

Possible but the output wouldn`t be linear and hard to tune, maybe feed the Hotwire into another input (one of the option ports) so you can still log with manifold pressure to make sense of the readings?.

[KeithMac]

Cool! I had no idea that others tried his bypass modification with similar success. Someone should push the Evolution 8 MAS with an EMU for kicks. I might go for it if/when I can ever get another VR-4. There is a local 16T/EMB VR-4 owner who has been considering this for a while already.

I will be doing a 13T/EMU VR-4 real soon on E85 again, so that should be interesting. I am just transferring his 2G Boomslang EMU harnesses over to a 1G patch harness.

I looked at the EVO8 mod but there`s less overall surface area (more restriction) but a higher flow measurement capability, swings and roundabouts..