Clutch only works when car is rolling. I'm stumped.

[Firestorm95RT]

Trans is 93 FWD converted Getrag.

Applicable mods are Stage 2 clutch, and Fidanza Lightweight Flywheel.

A while back my car suddenly became harder to get into gear. After a 30+ miles drive home through the city, it got to the point where it just plain wouldn't work. Now, sitting still idling, if you floor the clutch pedal and try to put it into gear it wont go, period; and the car baaarely tries to move.

The clutch pedal feels like it doesn't travel as far as it used to, or should.

If I get the car rolling, say above 30mph, the clutch works perfectly fine - through all gears. Pedal doesn't feel any better, but it works.

I replaced the slave cylinder, and that didn't help. I seemed to make the clutch pedal just a taaaad bit better, but that's it.

Any ideas?



-Dave

[x2percentmilk]

Adjust the pedal yet? Im having serious issues with mine and it will lock you out of gear if it gets too bad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EkJKjfIQ9A

[stealthee]

Yeah either look into the pedal adjustment, or a master cylinder.

[MaxClass]

Here are two things to check out.

First check out this link and make sure that this is NOT the problem first. I spent about 6 months racking my brain and trying everything when this was the only problem. I wrote this article and everyone needs to read it.

DO THIS NOW.

Stealth 316 - Loose Clutch Pedal Support Bracket Bolt (http://www.stealth316.com/2-clutch-bracket-bolt.htm)

Now go to the following site and watch Jacks video on how to properly adjust the clutch before you do anything else. You will learn something.

Jacks Transmissions LLC — Tech Articles (http://www.jackstransmissions.com/pages/tech-articles)

Hope this helps.

[stealthee]

Jacks is actually not the proper way to adjust the pedal. The video posted by x2percentmilk shows the proper way.

[green-lantern]

Always look for fluid on the carpet when something like this happens. Push your finger right under the master cylinder on the carpet. If you have fluid on you finger then you know the problem.

[green-lantern]

It's much easier for your clutch to work once your moving. I like to shift without a clutch once and a while. When you have the RPM and speed/gear right you don't need it.

[x2percentmilk]

Thank you for that link by the way, maxclass. That is by far the only thing I havent checked besides my pressure plate bolt torque, which requires dropping the transmission again. I really think that might be my issue, especially with how all over my engagement point is on a hour to hour basis. Ill be checking that out tomorrow for sure.

Anyway, back onto firestorms problem :)

[MaxClass]

Maybe we should call Jack and tell him that. He clearly shows making an adjustment using the push-back from the slave cylinder to set a starting point to get maximum travel at the slave cylinder. As long as you are getting full travel and still have the required clearance at the top of the peddle how wrong can it be? Enlighten my please because I will have to adjust mine after I put the engine back in the car.

Anyway the first link I posted tells of a problem any of us could easily have and not know it. If that one bolt is loose trying to adjust anything in the clutch system is a waste of time. Like I said in the article after I fixed mine I went directly to my fiance's car and hers was really loose to and I have had several others say the same thing.

Only makes sense to check that bolt first. I check mine at least once a year.

[Firestorm95RT]

First and foremost, thanks everyone for the replies.



Always look for fluid on the carpet when something like this happens. Push your finger right under the master cylinder on the carpet. If you have fluid on you finger then you know the problem.

No fluid, no visible leaks or significant fluid loss. Is it possible to have a bad master cylinder and not have an external leak?


Here are two things to check out.

First check out this link and make sure that this is NOT the problem first. I spent about 6 months racking my brain and trying everything when this was the only problem. I wrote this article and everyone needs to read it.

DO THIS NOW.

Stealth 316 - Loose Clutch Pedal Support Bracket Bolt (http://www.stealth316.com/2-clutch-bracket-bolt.htm)

Now go to the following site and watch Jacks video on how to properly adjust the clutch before you do anything else. You will learn something.

Jacks Transmissions LLC — Tech Articles (http://www.jackstransmissions.com/pages/tech-articles)

Hope this helps.

I adjusted the pedal about 98% of the way out. seemed to help a hair, but nothing significant.


Some other possibly important things I left out. I unhooked the clutch booster, and blocked everything off - that made no difference whatsoever in the feel of the pedal.


Also, the car was previsouly a DOHC NA ATX car, we did a full swap and swapped over the pedal assemblies. I know recall one of the guys who helped mentioning a bracket that was left on the Vr-4, that was directly above the clutch pedal assembly. He stated a blot went up through the assembly, and bolted to this bracket. I'm going to assume that's the support bracket, and that being said, I don't have one. (go easy on me)

That's all I can think of for now.

[stealthee]

Maybe we should call Jack and tell him that. He clearly shows making an adjustment using the push-back from the slave cylinder to set a starting point to get maximum travel at the slave cylinder. As long as you are getting full travel and still have the required clearance at the top of the peddle how wrong can it be? Enlighten my please because I will have to adjust mine after I put the engine back in the car.

Anyway the first link I posted tells of a problem any of us could easily have and not know it. If that one bolt is loose trying to adjust anything in the clutch system is a waste of time. Like I said in the article after I fixed mine I went directly to my fiance's car and hers was really loose to and I have had several others say the same thing.

Only makes sense to check that bolt first. I check mine at least once a year.

The way Jack show works, but the way the other video shows is the proper way to do it. All you have to do is get the proper amount of pedal freeplay and you are done.

[Firestorm95RT]

My biggest concern is not having to pull the trans for the 3rd time in a year.. that's why I'm hoping it's an external problem.

[stealthee]

3 times in a year is nothing. :lol: Try 3 times in 3 days. That was a pain in my ass.

[Firestorm95RT]

3 times in a year is nothing. :lol: Try 3 times in 3 days. That was a pain in my ass.

Wow. My record is twice in a day.. I swore I'd never touch a 3S again. That lasted about a week.

I can't imagine 3 times in 3 days. You're a better man than me, evidently.

[stealthee]

Yeah that was one of my blown diff fixes. I pulled the trans and disassembled it because of a horrible internal noise.

After the 3rd tear down I finally found what was causing the noise. A tooth on the intermediate gear had a chunk taken out of it that I completely missed.

So it was 3 pulls and 3 teardowns in 3 days. Was not a happy camper that week.

[Firestorm95RT]

Yeah that was one of my blown diff fixes. I pulled the trans and disassembled it because of a horrible internal noise.

After the 3rd tear down I finally found what was causing the noise. A tooth on the intermediate gear had a chunk taken out of it that I completely missed.

So it was 3 pulls and 3 teardowns in 3 days. Was not a happy camper that week.

I feel ya. I pulled mine to weld the crapped out VCU, reassembled, and installed. Finished the little things on the swap, and started it up. Good running car.. except for the incredibly loud whining noise coming for the trans.

Pulled, found that I hadn't fully pressed the primary gear assembly back into the end case far enough. tore it apart and found a nicely polished spot where a gear had ground a good half inch off the inside of the case.



I just want to get this thing back on the road so bad.. this problem is so mysterious. I swear I felt something break in the pedal when I pushed it in, and then the problem started immediately, a mile down the road at my next gear change. It felt kind of like a peice of plastic, something small maybe, had gotten stuck behind the pedal and snapped. Obviously that wasn't it, but something had to have given.

[stealthee]

Ow... you may very well have done something to the pressure plate, or popped a spring on the disk. That would cause engagement issues as well.

[BigBoris]

I feel ya. I pulled mine to weld the crapped out VCU, reassembled, and installed. Finished the little things on the swap, and started it up. Good running car.. except for the incredibly loud whining noise coming for the trans.

Pulled, found that I hadn't fully pressed the primary gear assembly back into the end case far enough. tore it apart and found a nicely polished spot where a gear had ground a good half inch off the inside of the case.



I just want to get this thing back on the road so bad.. this problem is so mysterious. I swear I felt something break in the pedal when I pushed it in, and then the problem started immediately, a mile down the road at my next gear change. It felt kind of like a peice of plastic, something small maybe, had gotten stuck behind the pedal and snapped. Obviously that wasn't it, but something had to have given.

Did you try bleeding your clutch?
Check this out, see if it helps. Good luck.
http://www.3sgto.org/f17/how-rebuild-your-fwd-5-speed-manual-transmission-guide-3204.html

[x2percentmilk]

Looks like the transmission is coming off :/

[BaadVR4]

The pedal adjustment is meant to assure proper closure of the valve in the master cylinder that provides "floating" of the operating rod between the slave cylinder and the operating fork. This valve allows the slave cylinder to retract until the throw out bearing is just released. The rod length between the pedal and the master cylinder determines when this valve closes. Until the valve closes, there is no pressure to move the slave cylinder and thus no movement of the throw out bearing or clutch. If the valve closure is delayed too far, the clutch won't be disengaged even with the pedal on the floor. The pedal to master cylinder rod needs to be adjusted to where the valve closes almost as soon as the pedal starts to move. If the rod is adjusted to where the valve doesn't open, the throwout bearing will always be riding on the clutch fingers. I had this exact problem with a turbo Eclipse. Adjusting the pedal solved it.

[speedy25]

There is no "valve" in the master cylinder. What you are describing is the compensation port. Its a small hole that allows fluid to return to the reservoir when it heats up. Its in both MC and CMC. If you have adjusted your pedal too "loose" you wont get full travel of the slave and gear grinding commences. Too tight and the port is covered and the system stays pressurized, usually leading to a slipping clutch.

Sometimes it takes a few tries to get it just right. Keep that 12mm wrench on hand just in case you didnt.

-SP

[BaadVR4]

There is no "valve" in the master cylinder. What you are describing is the compensation port. Its a small hole that allows fluid to return to the reservoir when it heats up. Its in both MC and CMC. If you have adjusted your pedal too "loose" you wont get full travel of the slave and gear grinding commences. Too tight and the port is covered and the system stays pressurized, usually leading to a slipping clutch.

Sometimes it takes a few tries to get it just right. Keep that 12mm wrench on hand just in case you didnt.

-SP

"Valve" vs "Compensation Port", the purpose and the operation are identical. The "port" gets closed by movement of the rod. This type of "port" and "rod" system is often described as a "spool valve", particularly in hydraulic systems, hence I called it a valve. But none of this has anything to do with the OP's problem and possible fixes.

[Firestorm95RT]

I'd like to reiterate that there is no clutch support bracket on this car. It was previously a ATX car, and when the MTX pedal assemblies were transferred over, the separate bracket that bolts under the dash (bolt goes through the clutch pedal assembly, UP into this bracket) was not installed.

Secondly, if what Brian says is true, and the pressure plate might be toasted, wouldn't the problem exist constantly? Again once the car is moving, everything seems to work fine.

[stealthee]

No, because as was previously mentioned, once the car is rolling its easier to line the synchros up.