RWD conversion

[Mike-92RT]

i was just wondering what would i have to do in order to convert my FWD stealth to a RWD?

would i have to bolt the AWD stuff up, and just take out the front axles?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb9pXRc_CMM

[IPD]

are you joking? isn't this topic coming up once per week enough for you?

[Mike-92RT]

clearly i haven't seen any

[IPD]

well i'll try to be nice. sell your car. buy a corvette. don't even bother thinking about doing RWD to a 3/s. way, way, WAY more labor intensive than you really want to fathom--if you're really going to get it to a capability level on par with the stock AWD. (well, as "on-par" as RWD can be with AWD). doing what evan did in that video is not true RWD, and you won't have nearly as much capability or power as a dedicated RWD setup.

p.s.

the AWD parts don't "bolt on". it's a LOT more complex than that. i suggest doing research on florida3s before rushing into a project you're going to regret.



seriously, buy a corvette. thank me later.

[Maximal]

Now...for a slightly nicer answer...

It's been done a couple times but it was proven to be no real benefit except for that video above...to do burnouts. If you're going to take the time to go RWD you might as well just do the AWD (since it's basically the same thing) and gain something from it. However, if you just want to do burnouts then it'll be a worthwhile conversion. :p

[Mike-92RT]

i know a lot about these cars, and i know a lot about the TT/AWD conversions... im not fucking stupid.

Maximal, thank you for giving me a good answer. Imperfectdarkness obviously doesn't know how to treat his fellow 3/S members.

I was just curious if its worth doing it or not, since everyone in my city asks me if my car is RWD, and i've never seen or heard of anyone doing the RWD conversion. Since i DO live in canada, and not too many people own 3/S cars.

[Maximal]

Yeah, I think there's been 2 RWD cars before and neither owner was too fond of the idea afterwords...at least as far as performance goes.

[Mike-92RT]

my car is just the N/A, so i won't be drag racing it, or dumping thousands into the engine.. so im not too worried about performance, unless im losing horsepower to the wheels, or if the handling gets more shitty.. the stock HP is fine with me.

[bridge]

from the god himself ;)


RWD is slower because you put less power to the wheels than a FWD vehicle or even an AWD vehicle. A FWD car has around 15%ish drivetrain loss while a RWD car has around 20%ish. The actual numbers will depend upon the exact set up of the drvietrain but you guys get the idea, FWD has less drivetrain losses.

It's important to think of an AWD car as a FWD drivetrain PLUS a RWD drivetrain. The torque split occurs in the tranny before either of the axles get torque with half of the engine torque going to the front and the other half going to the rear. So if you have 300 BHP, then you have 150 HP going to the front and 150 HP going to the rear. Now subtract your drivetrain losses. That would be 150 HP - 15% for the front equals 127.5 FWHP. The rear wheels would be 150 HP - 20% equals 120.0 RWHP. Add them together and you get 247.5 AWHP. It's important to remember that the different drivetrain paths that the torque takes after the torque split with give you different drivetrain losses. This is why members who added a CFDS have reported that they are now able to spin the rear wheels at WOT, because they changed their rear wheel drivetrain losses.

Now lets do my car in it's current RWD trim. 300 BHP - 20% for the rear wheels equals 240 RWHP. That is less than the 247.5 for AWD. That may not seem like a hugh difference but also remember that I reduced my total off the line traction by about 50%. My car sucks out of the hole. It lost a little from a role too. Enough to lose anyway.

Finally, we'll do a FWD like those members with a TT swap and a TT tranny converted to FWD. Take 300 BHP - 15% and you get 255.0 FWHP. Obviously the highest wheel HP rateing we have seen so far. A stock TT FWD would slaughter me like a cow in a meat factory from a roll.

I'm sure some one is thinking that the TC doesn't make for an "ideal" drivetrain set up, but it didn't seem to slow me down when I was AWD. And even if the engine was turned, a RWD drivetrain will still have more power losses than a FWD or AWD vehicle. The transverse set up of our drivetrains will make for less power loss to the front wheels also. Helping us in a race from a roll. .

[bridge]

for those that are anal


The percentages are not exact. The idea I wanted to get into members minds was that once the torque takes two different paths, the percentage of loss will be different between the front and rear wheels. To get the total percentage lost, you would add up the amount (not percentage) lost while going through the front and then through the rear, add those numbers together, and then figure out what percentage of your BHP that is. But it would not be the average between the percentage of front wheel loss and the percentage of rear wheel loss.

[Mike-92RT]

very interesting!

[Maximal]

my car is just the N/A, so i won't be drag racing it, or dumping thousands into the engine.. so im not too worried about performance, unless im losing horsepower to the wheels, or if the handling gets more shitty.. the stock HP is fine with me.

I have a feeling an NA will be painfully slow in RWD. Not only are you losing more power but you're adding a bunch of wait.

[IPD]

i know a lot about these cars, and i know a lot about the TT/AWD conversions... im not fucking stupid.

Maximal, thank you for giving me a good answer. Imperfectdarkness obviously doesn't know how to treat his fellow 3/S members.

I was just curious if its worth doing it or not, since everyone in my city asks me if my car is RWD, and i've never seen or heard of anyone doing the RWD conversion. Since i DO live in canada, and not too many people own 3/S cars.

and yet...you somehow didn't have access to any of brett's insights on this conversion?


seriously, this topic has been covered HUNDREDS of times on the old site, and has been brought up at least twice before on this one. you, like the many before you, are asking about turning an apple into an orange. when i said buy a corvette, i meant it. get something RWD if you want RWD. you'll be saving yourself a lot of time and effort; and the results will be significantly better without even modding the corvette. i boiled it down to the essentials. if you want the lurid details, then i suggest your search skills need more flexing.

my "attitude" as you put it is a direct result from years of watching "owners" like you try and take a 3/s and turn it into something like an FD-3s, supra, or corvette. start with the right platform. the 3/s is fwd or awd. period. vr440 being one of the lone exceptions; and is a great example of what you can do with pretty much any car if you tube-frame it. but if you're going to that much trouble...why start with a "heavy" 3/s, instead of something several hundred pounds lighter?

[Mike-92RT]

and yet...you somehow didn't have access to any of brett's insights on this conversion?


seriously, this topic has been covered HUNDREDS of times on the old site, and has been brought up at least twice before on this one. you, like the many before you, are asking about turning an apple into an orange. when i said buy a corvette, i meant it. get something RWD if you want RWD. you'll be saving yourself a lot of time and effort; and the results will be significantly better without even modding the corvette. i boiled it down to the essentials. if you want the lurid details, then i suggest your search skills need more flexing.

my "attitude" as you put it is a direct result from years of watching "owners" like you try and take a 3/s and turn it into something like an FD-3s, supra, or corvette. start with the right platform. the 3/s is fwd or awd. period. vr440 being one of the lone exceptions; and is a great example of what you can do with pretty much any car if you tube-frame it. but if you're going to that much trouble...why start with a "heavy" 3/s, instead of something several hundred pounds lighter?

look buddy, im sorry i thought outside of the box with these cars. Theres nothing wrong with that. It would make my car more interesting than yours. I rarely went on 3si cause it sucked balls with its slow loading and a million ads. I don't waste my time searching countless hours for certain threads. I have a life you know.

You have no right to be fucking rude about it, so calm down, give your head a shake. I obviously can't afford a Supra, or Corvette, which is why i own one of these POS 3/S cars. I like my stealth, i dont plan on selling it soon, and i was curious to see what the RWD was all about.

[IPD]

let me ask you this. would you consider a RWD conversion to a lancer? how about a DSM? what about an srt-4? CRZ?

sure, it can be done...but it's a VERY intensive process. for the time, effort and funds involved, you could start with a GOOD RWD platform. even a silva/240sx would be a decent starting point. and if you're REALLY broke, a fox-body mustang. i think you should check on the prices for c5 vettes; they're pretty low these days. much easier/cheaper than buying a fwd 3/s and trying to RWD it (or even buying an AWD 3/s and trying the same thing).

what i'm trying to say here is that the difficulty in such a conversion isn't unique to the 3/s realm. if you have your heart set on converting a 3/s, go right ahead. my opinion is that i can save you a lot of pain by just convincing you to buy the right car to start with. and i say this as someone who has gone through the ass-pain of an awd conversion.

p.s.

the 3/s isn't a "pos". if you honestly believe that, even about a FWD, i suggest you sell it to someone who doesn't share that sentiment. this platform deserves better than that.

p.p.s.

you live in canada. i would walk before i chose to drive RWD in canadian winters.

[mb3000]

look buddy, im sorry i thought outside of the box with these cars. Theres nothing wrong with that. It would make my car more interesting than yours. I rarely went on 3si cause it sucked balls with its slow loading and a million ads. I don't waste my time searching countless hours for certain threads. I have a life you know.

You have no right to be fucking rude about it, so calm down, give your head a shake. I obviously can't afford a Supra, or Corvette, which is why i own one of these POS 3/S cars. I like my stealth, i dont plan on selling it soon, and i was curious to see what the RWD was all about.

POS 3/S? Why on earth would you want to put so much time and effort into a car that you don't even like. The fact that you don't understand anything about the conversion tells me that you would fail 100% or you would get a little of it done then just bitch out and pay a shop to complete it. You want to be like Vr440? You can't because he was fucking dedicated to his build, so the "I have a life you know" shit wouldn't work out.

Sell your car, we don't need people like you beating the shit out of a 3/s just because you don't like what mommy and daddy bought you for your 16th birthday. Have a little respect.

[beepbeep]

Bridge, I came in here to posts those. Thanks ever so much for beating me to it. :Tantrum2:

Mike, read what Bret wrote....several times. If you're just doing it for shits and giggles, have at it. But it will change your opinion of your car....and generally it's towards the negative side. Those who have done it, as mentioned above, find that after all the work, it really wasn't worth it.

[stealthee]

look buddy, im sorry i thought outside of the box with these cars. Theres nothing wrong with that. It would make my car more interesting than yours. I rarely went on 3si cause it sucked balls with its slow loading and a million ads. I don't waste my time searching countless hours for certain threads. I have a life you know.

You have no right to be fucking rude about it, so calm down, give your head a shake. I obviously can't afford a Supra, or Corvette, which is why i own one of these POS 3/S cars. I like my stealth, i dont plan on selling it soon, and i was curious to see what the RWD was all about.

You need to calm down. What he is saying has merit. And if you can't afford a Vette, then you can't afford a RWD conversion. And if you think the car is a POS then sell it and get the fuck out of here.

[bridge]

Bridge, I came in here to posts those. Thanks ever so much for beating me to it. :Tantrum2:

Mike, read what Bret wrote....several times. If you're just doing it for shits and giggles, have at it. But it will change your opinion of your car....and generally it's towards the negative side. Those who have done it, as mentioned above, find that after all the work, it really wasn't worth it.

Sorrie..... It was just funny cause I was looking up dan's olds posts when he was rwd (I drove it home from iowa to chicago during winter time/snow, it was fun but shit kept breaking on him, he had a 14 sec 1/4 mile, yeah he went back to AWD) and bam! There was bret's post basically answering mike's question.

[Mike-92RT]

hahaha wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww..

i call the 3S car, a POS, because i can. Most of them i see, are on the back of a flatbed, broken down. They aren't reliable cars, on gas, and with it running. I never said i didn't like my car, I love my car, and I'm allowed to call it a POS if i want to.

mb3000, i bought my Stealth with my own money thank you very much. I also bought it when i was 20, so you can fuck right off buddy. I only made this thread to see how much work was needed to do the RWD conversion, and what my gains/losses would be. I wasn't asking for any criticism from anyone.

You guys need to learn to relax, take a joke once and awhile, and quit being so serious. FUCK!

[TajMan]

:rolleyes:

[Unknownvr4]

hahaha wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww..

i call the 3S car, a POS, because i can. Most of them i see, are on the back of a flatbed, broken down. They aren't reliable cars, on gas, and with it running. I never said i didn't like my car, I love my car, and I'm allowed to call it a POS if i want to.

mb3000, i bought my Stealth with my own money thank you very much. I also bought it when i was 20, so you can fuck right off buddy. I only made this thread to see how much work was needed to do the RWD conversion, and what my gains/losses would be. I wasn't asking for any criticism from anyone.

You guys need to learn to relax, take a joke once and awhile, and quit being so serious. FUCK!

No.

The car is in as reliable condition as the person you bought it from sold it to you in. If you keep up with maintenance and not beat the fuck out of it, a lot of these cars go a long way without breaking down. Even some who do drag race it and stuff like that don't have issues with it breaking if everything is how its supposed to be, strengthened, and modded correctly. I don't appreciate someone calling a car that is identical to mine a POS just because the owner doesn't keep up with it.

[x2percentmilk]

After about 6 months of owning the vehicle, every breakdown I had (which wasnt really many) was directly my fault.

[Unknownvr4]

After about 6 months of owning the vehicle, every breakdown I had (which wasnt really many) was directly my fault.

Every breakdown I had with my VR4, was entirely my fault.

[Mike-92RT]

well the owner who owned it before me, obviously didn't take good care of mine.. I don't mean to diss everyone on here, just the people that for some reason, are fucking rude to me, when i wanted some simple information that some kind people have given me.

PS: funny how mb3000 never replied to what i said after his smart-ass remark. Don't assume things, ever.

[mb3000]

well the owner who owned it before me, obviously didn't take good care of mine.. I don't mean to diss everyone on here, just the people that for some reason, are fucking rude to me, when i wanted some simple information that some kind people have given me.

PS: funny how mb3000 never replied to what i said after his smart-ass remark. Don't assume things, ever.

Alright, I try to be the bigger man and you come back with this shit. I'm not concerned with what you say because your opinion doesn't really matter to me. I honestly don't have any clue how you are seriously pondering a RWD conversion when you are bitching about the car's reliability and gas mileage. Maybe the previous owners of the car did not treat it so well, hopefully you will do better than them.

And a good rule of thumb; if you don't want people to be "fucking rude" to you, don't come onto a forum dedicated to a specific platform and shit on the platform. Frankly, it's rude.

[Mike-92RT]

well i'm sorry, but i found it very rude, and inconsiderate of you calling me a "mommy/daddy's boy", getting my car bought for me on my 16th bday. It was an unnecessary comment, and i found it disrespectful. If you want to be the bigger man, you apologize.

I'm not making fun or shitting on the 3/S platform, im joking around since our cars are fragile, i thought you would all find it funny also. But i guess not. I guess i made my own mistake, of assuming things. I didn't know this site was full of anal, dedicated members. In that case, i apologize to anyone i offended.

I take VERY good care of my car, i wash it twice a week, i gave it a new undercoat, i'm installing a new exhaust this spring, and i don't drive it in the winter.

[mb3000]

well i'm sorry, but i found it very rude, and inconsiderate of you calling me a "mommy/daddy's boy", getting my car bought for me on my 16th bday. It was an unnecessary comment, and i found it disrespectful. If you want to be the bigger man, you apologize.

I'm not making fun or shitting on the 3/S platform, im joking around since our cars are fragile, i thought you would all find it funny also. But i guess not. I guess i made my own mistake, of assuming things. I didn't know this site was full of anal, dedicated members. In that case, i apologize to anyone i offended.

I take VERY good care of my car, i wash it twice a week, i gave it a new undercoat, i'm installing a new exhaust this spring, and i don't drive it in the winter.

Thanks for the apology, you will get mine as well for not catching on.

[x2percentmilk]

Totaly, im not sure if I worded it correctly but I wanted to blame the first 6 months on previous owners :P

[Mike-92RT]

hahahaha no worries... i blame the condition of my car on the previous owner.. timing belt slipped, valves were scrap... i replaced every gasket on the engine.. cleaned everything, greased every nut/bolt.... the car runs like a 100% brand new car off the lot.

[IPD]

well i'm sorry, but i found it very rude, and inconsiderate of you calling me a "mommy/daddy's boy", getting my car bought for me on my 16th bday. It was an unnecessary comment, and i found it disrespectful. If you want to be the bigger man, you apologize.

I'm not making fun or shitting on the 3/S platform, im joking around since our cars are fragile, i thought you would all find it funny also. But i guess not. I guess i made my own mistake, of assuming things. I didn't know this site was full of anal, dedicated members. In that case, i apologize to anyone i offended.

I take VERY good care of my car, i wash it twice a week, i gave it a new undercoat, i'm installing a new exhaust this spring, and i don't drive it in the winter.

negative, ghostrider. the only "weak" parts on these cars that mitsubishi DIDN'T fix over the course of the platform's lifetime were the fwd-mtx and the 6-speed (and the 6-speed is actually pretty damn good, it's just expensive to replace/repair). the bad reputation comes from previous owners who:

1. don't understand the concept of an interference engine
2. attempted higher boost without any type of tuning or supporting mods
3. attempted neutral-drops
4. all of the above

[stealthee]

Even the transmissions are not fragile as long as you don't race and beat on them. Synchro issues come from those who don't know how to shift. Not one of my transmissions have ever had a synchro issue and the first trans had 155k on it when I popped the diff racing it.