Headers + Hi Flow vs. dp + test pipe

[SOHC]

Assuming your heads are ported and you got cams, will it be worth going from a 3sx cali spec downpipe and test pipe to headers and a high flow cat?

[CoopKill]

The more you open up the heads and headers, the more you gain up top and lose down low. It would depend on what you want to do, drag, road coarse or street. I am not sure it would be worth the trouble unless you are going big turbos, big power.

Edit: Seeing that you are sohc and na, it would definitely not be worth the trouble in my opinion.

[MADMarc]

eeek, SOHC? If I were na there wouldn't be a question about it, so long as you dont have smog INSPECTION problems. The headers are an immediate fail if people see them out here :(. Buuuuut, regardless, I would still go long tube headers and a high flow

[mb3000]

I personally wouldn't do it, but that's your call in the end.

[BigBoris]

I'm with you on making good power out of an NA, everyone wants turbo this and turbo that. When my NA was up a VR4's ass in GMR and all he had to say was "damn I thought I had a VR4" I knew it was time to play. I'm not into drag racing like it seems most of our VR4 members are... I'm more into road courses and mountain roads. Anyone can mash a throttle wide open on a strait road... But can you do it through a corner?

I say go big or go home... Get the headers and high flow if you don't care about smog, I have DN downpipe and can say bang for buck its worth it. I'm running a DOHC though, not sure about your SOHC.

I may convert to AWD NA because as it is now 1st and 2nd gear like to spin on me.

[stealthee]

You have absolutely no concept if you think drag racing is just mashing a pedal and driving straight.

Then again I see your wing and realize really how far gone your concept really is.

[Amphiron]

You have absolutely no concept if you think drag racing is just mashing a pedal and driving straight.

Then again I see your wing and realize really how far gone your concept really is.

it hurts so much when stealthee gets mad =[

[BigBoris]

You have absolutely no concept if you think drag racing is just mashing a pedal and driving straight.

Then again I see your wing and realize really how far gone your concept really is.

My wing doesn't define my knowledge, drag racing down a 1/4 mile requires just as much tuning and preparation as a road course in many cases. But the build of a car drag racing is much different then that of a track car. Most competitive drag races are won at the tree. Reaction time is key. Knowing your shift points is also vital. I could go into more details but to give you a better idea of what I meant, drag racing isn't as hard as learning entry, apex, and exit in a corner while shifting and controlling throttle.

[CoopKill]

And you will be behind the hondas if you do a NA awd conversion...

Oh and I am sorry, if you were all up in that VR4's ass, he could not drive, and/or it had no boost. I have owned both, and there is no comparison in the corners or on the straights...

You can't make up for 100+ hp and awd advantages no matter what dream you live in...

[CoopKill]

it hurts so much when stealthee gets mad =[

He's just got a wrinkle in his oil pan, he'll come back around soon...:p

[BigBoris]

And you will be behind the hondas if you do a NA awd conversion...

Oh and I am sorry, if you were all up in that VR4's ass, he could not drive, and/or it had no boost. I have owned both, and there is no comparison in the corners or on the straights...

You can't make up for 100+ hp and awd advantages no matter what dream you live in...

Yeah, I'll lose too much power with AWD, VR4's lose over 20% to it... My power loss is down to maybe 4 or 5% right now. As for keeping up with a VR4 in my NA, its easily possible. My car isn't stock and I'm not new to driving son.

[stealthee]

Your power loss is not down to 5%. That is IMPOSSIBLE.

Your car isn't stock but its not exactly highly modded. You would be lucky to be making 180 whp. You lack 60 whp on a stock VR4. Your car doesn't stand a chance against a VR4 on straights, or curves.

[BigBoris]

Your power loss is not down to 5%. That is IMPOSSIBLE.

Your car isn't stock but its not exactly highly modded. You would be lucky to be making 180 whp. You lack 60 whp on a stock VR4. Your car doesn't stand a chance against a VR4 on straights, or curves.

FWD cars generally lose about 15% hp to the wheels
AWD cars generally lose about 25% hp to the wheels

VR4 puts out around 207AWHP, 206 kW (280 PS; 276 hp) at 6000 rpm @ crank. 276*.25=69
SOHC N/A puts out around 136FWHP, 119 kW (162 PS; 160 hp) at 5500 rpm @ crank. 160*.15=24
DOHC N/A puts out around 187FWHP, 165 kW (224 PS; 221 hp) at 6000 rpm @ crank. 221*.15=33.15

Keep in mind, I have the DOHC not the SOHC which has a 60 HP difference at the crank.

With my mods I'm sure that I can put out at least 200-210FWHP and soon enough I'll be able to confirm my exact FWHP at FSR. But as for cornering against a VR4, its irrelevant what you think when I know what happened.

Now the point of this thread was to give this man some advice on his choice of going long headers or just the downpipe. If you want to continue talking about my car we can start that thread some other time.

[stealthee]

The DOHC is lucky to make 170 hp at the wheels from the factory. It never came with 220 hp from the factory. It was overrated by Mitsubishi and has been proven time and time again with stock dyno tests and 1/4 mile times. Most modded DOHC's don't even make your stated 187 whp. And the SOHC was underrated by Mitubishi. It makes around 150 hp at the wheels as has been proven by several dyno tests.

Your numbers on the VR4 prove you are clueless. The 276 was a "gentlemans agreement" from Japan. The VR4 makes 320 crank horsepower and makes 240 at the wheels, as has been proven on the dyno.

Your intake adds 0 horsepower. The only thing thats going to add horsepower is the downpipe. I stand by my statement that you are lucky to make 180 hp at the wheels.

And what I know happened was the VR4 either was in the wrong gear, or the car was sick.

[CoopKill]

Now your getting the wrinkles out! lol

[x2xtreme360]

Oh jesus another "modded" NA vs stock VR4 thread. Give me a break.

[BigBoris]

The DOHC is lucky to make 170 hp at the wheels from the factory. It never came with 220 hp from the factory. It was overrated by Mitsubishi and has been proven time and time again with stock dyno tests and 1/4 mile times. Most modded DOHC's don't even make your stated 187 whp. And the SOHC was underrated by Mitubishi. It makes around 150 hp at the wheels as has been proven by several dyno tests.

Your numbers on the VR4 prove you are clueless. The 276 was a "gentlemans agreement" from Japan. The VR4 makes 320 crank horsepower and makes 240 at the wheels, as has been proven on the dyno.

Your intake adds 0 horsepower. The only thing thats going to add horsepower is the downpipe. I stand by my statement that you are lucky to make 180 hp at the wheels.

And what I know happened was the VR4 either was in the wrong gear, or the car was sick.

Dude, I got those numbers from wiki, I didn't just make them up. If they aren't right then go fix them. I can't find any information proving what "stock" cars put out because nobody dynos a fucking stock car, something has been modified and to add to that our cars are 10-20 years old. Those numbers won't ever be right at this point. Even if the only HP gain is from my downpipe, great I really could give a shit because I have in fact ran besides more then just VR4's and proven that my car is quite capable of competing.
Since you seem to know FACTS about everything then get in your ride and lets hit the fucking track because at the end of the day there is only one way to find out what the asphalt tastes like.

And to clarify I'm not doubting that a VR4 can beat me with = mods... It's obvious that it should and will in most cases.

[mb3000]

Guys, I'm getting a little tired from reading this entire thread.

Anyone have a park bench I could sit on for a couple minutes? :Innocent:

[x2xtreme360]

Dude, I got those numbers from wiki, I didn't just make them up. If they aren't right then go fix them. I can't find any information proving what "stock" cars put out because nobody dynos a fucking stock car, something has been modified and to add to that our cars are 10-20 years old. Those numbers won't ever be right at this point. Even if the only HP gain is from my downpipe, great I really could give a shit because I have in fact ran besides more then just VR4's and proven that my car is quite capable of competing.
Since you seem to know FACTS about everything then get in your ride and lets hit the fucking track because at the end of the day there is only one way to find out what the asphalt tastes like.

And to clarify I'm not doubting that a VR4 can beat me with = mods... It's obvious that it should and will in most cases.

All you have to do is search for like 5 seconds and you'll come to your answer. NA's have been dynod in stock form numerous times... as a matter of a fact, I have access to a dyno for free whenever I want. I'll throw my NA on there one day to see what it puts out in stock form. The majority of the NA's put out 160HP to the wheels.

Now, owning both an NA (3100lbs) and a VR4 (3737lbs), I can honestly say that there is hands down NO comparison. I would be happy to show you some time.

And btw, maybe you didn't make those numbers up... but wiki can be edited by anyone. Think about it.

[BigBoris]

All you have to do is search for like 5 seconds and you'll come to your answer. NA's have been dynod in stock form numerous times... as a matter of a fact, I have access to a dyno for free whenever I want. I'll throw my NA on there one day to see what it puts out in stock form. The majority of the NA's put out 160HP to the wheels.

Now, owning both an NA (3100lbs) and a VR4 (3737lbs), I can honestly say that there is hands down NO comparison. I would be happy to show you some time.

I did google "stock 3000GT dyno" "3000gt hp ratings" "drivetrain power loss" and it just kept leading me to other forums where people spew out random numbers. I couldn't find a site or youtube video to support any information based on stock cars. Regardless Stealthee isn't providing me with any supporting information or references and to say the least all he is doing is talking shit. In my search for the information I found numerous posts made by Stealthee rebutting information and not providing any references. If you do know its a proven fact then provide that information but a simple conversation in its most casual form became this aggravating discussion because you dont know how to present information respectively. I may have been able to keep up with a VR4 in a down hill race do to a bad driver or a car that wasn't running at its peak but the point wasn't that my car is "god" it was just a comment in conversation in nothing more then good fun.

here is where I got my information, if its wrong thats ok its up for debate but attacking my capabilities as a driver and HP rating of my car that you have never seen in operation isn't viable.

Mitsubishi GTO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_GTO) thats where i got my HP numbers wrong, right or indifferent I don't know. Show me a better place to get this information.

[CoopKill]

Not hatin on your car. I loved mine for 8 yrs before selling and pickin up the vr.

This discussion is a regular event, usually by newer, younger owners that have no experience with anything other than their na's. Which most of the time it is the most powerfull car they have owned, so the sky's the limit in their mind.

Other than dp, high floor cat, and performance filter there is not much more to be had that is worth the money in power mods. Now the driver mod is another story...

Most of what was posted in rebutal was not a personal attack on you, but an effort to keep it real for informational purposes...



__________________________________________________ ____________________

Tapatalk Bitches! :transform:

[jessecain1]

Bigboris, take a word of advice and listen to most these guys most have been in this scene for awhile now and know what there talking about. An na 6g72 with bolt ons isn't going to touch any vr4 stock or not... Now there have been some people that have been able to get some power out of the Na's such as gt wizard, but not without years of dedication and ass loads of money. If your dead set on building up your car look into picking up a 6g74, bolts right in and will give you more power stock then a 6g72 with all the bolt ons in the world. its what i wish i would have done in the beginning instead of dumping tons of money on the 72. Its also shit tons of fun to drive a 74 lots of torque :)

[jessecain1]

I wanted to add that im not flaming you and i was the same in the begainning just like you but for the money your going to drop on it you may as well go a different route such as a tt or 74.

[BigBoris]

I wanted to add that im not flaming you and i was the same in the begainning just like you but for the money your going to drop on it you may as well go a different route such as a tt or 74.

I may be new to the 3kGT platform but I'm not new to tuning. If I was going to dump money into this car I have now I would be dumb. It's FWD and doesnt support my driving style. I would buy an AWD or RWD for road courses. I'm just having fun with this one.

[97Pearl3KGT]

This may not be the exact place but rather then starting a new thread I'll start here. I'm planning on a set of OBX headers into a 2.5" testpipe and Maximal Performance Single Shot on my SOHC. Not so much concerned about the cat back done them before but I have not a clue what's involved in putting a set of headers on one of these cars... I mean I've helped my Father with a set on his '70 Challenger but that's a whole other world... anybody know what I'm going to be in for?

[jessecain1]

the rear banks on these cars suck getting to @ least on the dohc's, your going to have lots of scraped knuckles and a whole lot of swearing, but its pretty straight forward.... as far as the test pipe your probably going to have to cut it off with a torch if it is anything like mine. years and years of expanding and shrinking really get those nuts stuck on there. cat back is a walk in the park though

[11secondFWD]

Okay man. Stock vr4's have been dynoed many times and get 235-245awhp, and N/a DOHC get about 175fwhp stock. There are many threads man. I have owned both and its not close. I had a N/a with every mod and ran the best of high 15 sec passes. Then I put a 75 shot and ran 14 flat consistently with the n/a. Then I did a tt swap and with 9b's ran 14 flat. SO unless you have nitrous you wont be near a vr4. With it, it is very even. Then I ran 11's with my fwd tt and slicks. ANd now have a stock vr4 running mid 13's. I have had every avenue, n/a, n/a with nitrous, fwd tt with 9b's, fwd tt with 17g's and vr4 with 9b's. What stealthee is saying is pretty much 100% correct man. The DOHC n/a car isnt a slouch but a vr4 is in another league, even stock.

[11secondFWD]

Oh and the test pipe, catback, down pipe, headers, pulley, intake, ect took my car from like low 16's to high 15's. Not much of a gain, a 75 wet shot was very consistent and safe and made the biggest gain and only way to come close to a vr4 without turbos. I went to 14 flat everytime and raced about 100 1/4 mile passes on it. But doing a tt conversion is where you want to be at. Do not waste time on these crap mods for the n/a, they are a waste of money and god aweful expensive.

[BigBoris]

Oh and the test pipe, catback, down pipe, headers, pulley, intake, ect took my car from like low 16's to high 15's. Not much of a gain, a 75 wet shot was very consistent and safe and made the biggest gain and only way to come close to a vr4 without turbos. I went to 14 flat everytime and raced about 100 1/4 mile passes on it. But doing a tt conversion is where you want to be at. Do not waste time on these crap mods for the n/a, they are a waste of money and god aweful expensive.

Yeah I feel ya, again though. Maybe 1/4 is one thing but I don't run 1/4, I like road course. It's just for fun. Drag strips used to be my thing when I had a 83 Z28 5.0. That was fun. I'll never race a car this heavy with such shit base power on a drag strip...

[whitedragon]

At OP:

Buy an intake and a nice sounding catback, and be done with it. The car will feel a little stronger, it will sound mean, and you'll like it alot.

If you go with headers, you'll lose alot of low end power, your car will be ridiculously god awful loud (like, so loud you lose dates), and you'll hate it.

I had a 98SL, dropped a 3.5L into it, and then put every different configuration of exhaust you could think of on the thing, and in the end the best setup was just the stock downpipe and a nice aftermarket catback. I ran the OBX headers and they sucked and were hella loud. I put a high flow cat on, and that sucked too, and then I had a downpipe put on in place of the headers, and it was a tad better, but still sucked. Not only that, but I didn't get much gain/bang for my buck.

If you HAVE to stay NA, the best way to add power is a 3.5 and be done with it. (Or maybe nitrous, never tried that but I'm too scared. :D)

Or...if you really want to make power and get the most bang for your buck, go with the TT conversion, or sell your car and buy a VR4 or RT/TT. That's really the best advice anyone can give. The reason we say that is because we have all owned NA's, and then upgraded them, and then moved on to TT's, and kicked ourselves for all the money we dumped into the NA.

[jessecain1]

At OP:

Buy an intake and a nice sounding catback, and be done with it. The car will feel a little stronger, it will sound mean, and you'll like it alot.

If you go with headers, you'll lose alot of low end power, your car will be ridiculously god awful loud (like, so loud you lose dates), and you'll hate it.

I had a 98SL, dropped a 3.5L into it, and then put every different configuration of exhaust you could think of on the thing, and in the end the best setup was just the stock downpipe and a nice aftermarket catback. I ran the OBX headers and they sucked and were hella loud. I put a high flow cat on, and that sucked too, and then I had a downpipe put on in place of the headers, and it was a tad better, but still sucked. Not only that, but I didn't get much gain/bang for my buck.

If you HAVE to stay NA, the best way to add power is a 3.5 and be done with it. (Or maybe nitrous, never tried that but I'm too scared. :D)

Or...if you really want to make power and get the most bang for your buck, go with the TT conversion, or sell your car and buy a VR4 or RT/TT. That's really the best advice anyone can give. The reason we say that is because we have all owned NA's, and then upgraded them, and then moved on to TT's, and kicked ourselves for all the money we dumped into the NA.

he speaks the truth. i'm currently driving a 3.5 with mods, and for now its all i could ask for, tons of power (more then most of the crap you run into out there) compared to the 72 but still only comparable to a stock vr4. on a side note the 74 seemed to respond to bolt ons much better the then 72. for me its all i want for now but one day i'd love to have both my sl and a vr4 sitting in my driveway.

[GTwizard]

I saw my name come up so thought I would respond for a nimute or so. It's true. I have a shit ton of money in the car yes. But it's not all in the motor. Brakes, suspension, and all the other normal upgrade most do to their cars turbo or not.
I run the same fuel system I install on all VR4s, and run the VR4 ECU. I am still stock lower end, 10.1 to 1s. My 3.0 was over bored just for clean up so .020 over. Our performance comes from letting the motor breath. Stage 3 or better race heads, long tube header, Cam, adjustable cam gears and our own intake with 3.0 " Mustang Cobra throttle body. LT1 3.0 Maft and translater for tuning. Now, as far as what we have done at that 1/4 is 14.60 @ 98.5 mph. than lost the trans(again) so only made one run. On a road corse however, Life is a different story. Driving an all wheel drive car and a FWD car are not the same. When we drive road corse, yes we can out run a bone stock VR4 through the turns. The only reason is once you loss traction in an all wheel drive correction is tough, So most will never drive as hard as we do so it might be a while before we really no for sure. In the FWD, My son and I will drift around a VR4 as we are nuts and just don't worry about where tha ass of our car is. It will catch up latter. We have had multiple people in modded VR4's get out of our way on the track as well. BUt, I have to assume they just did not want some crazy ass old fart messen around behind them as they had no intension of driving full out like an ass like I. In the NA we have to drive full out or we would have our lunchs eat-n. We also weigh in at 2860.
So if you are going to do mods and play. enjoy what you create. Does not matter how fast or quick it really is. It just has to be enjoyable for you to drive. I build TT cars for others and they are fun to no end. I just don't need that kind of power in that heavey of a car to have fun for myself. This is my NA at the TX gathering 2010. Dyno day. Untunned and NA ECU. But we did OK. They one thing we liked is our HP and turque never ever drop till the fuel shuts down. So, there is a little more to be had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0JsdftRv0k

[BigBoris]

I saw my name come up so thought I would respond for a nimute or so. It's true. I have a shit ton of money in the car yes. But it's not all in the motor. Brakes, suspension, and all the other normal upgrade most do to their cars turbo or not.
I run the same fuel system I install on all VR4s, and run the VR4 ECU. I am still stock lower end, 10.1 to 1s. My 3.0 was over bored just for clean up so .020 over. Our performance comes from letting the motor breath. Stage 3 or better race heads, long tube header, Cam, adjustable cam gears and our own intake with 3.0 " Mustang Cobra throttle body. LT1 3.0 Maft and translater for tuning. Now, as far as what we have done at that 1/4 is 14.60 @ 98.5 mph. than lost the trans(again) so only made one run. On a road corse however, Life is a different story. Driving an all wheel drive car and a FWD car are not the same. When we drive road corse, yes we can out run a bone stock VR4 through the turns. The only reason is once you loss traction in an all wheel drive correction is tough, So most will never drive as hard as we do so it might be a while before we really no for sure. In the FWD, My son and I will drift around a VR4 as we are nuts and just don't worry about where tha ass of our car is. It will catch up latter. We have had multiple people in modded VR4's get out of our way on the track as well. BUt, I have to assume they just did not want some crazy ass old fart messen around behind them as they had no intension of driving full out like an ass like I. In the NA we have to drive full out or we would have our lunchs eat-n. We also weigh in at 2860.
So if you are going to do mods and play. enjoy what you create. Does not matter how fast or quick it really is. It just has to be enjoyable for you to drive. I build TT cars for others and they are fun to no end. I just don't need that kind of power in that heavey of a car to have fun for myself. This is my NA at the TX gathering 2010. Dyno day. Untunned and NA ECU. But we did OK. They one thing we liked is our HP and turque never ever drop till the fuel shuts down. So, there is a little more to be had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0JsdftRv0k

Wow! Thank god for a testament from you... You and I should take a drive! I still stand by what I said... 1/4 just isn't my cup of tea... I love road courses! And my car is tuned for it.

[97Pearl3KGT]

At OP:

Buy an intake and a nice sounding catback, and be done with it. The car will feel a little stronger, it will sound mean, and you'll like it alot.

If you go with headers, you'll lose alot of low end power, your car will be ridiculously god awful loud (like, so loud you lose dates), and you'll hate it.

I had a 98SL, dropped a 3.5L into it, and then put every different configuration of exhaust you could think of on the thing, and in the end the best setup was just the stock downpipe and a nice aftermarket catback. I ran the OBX headers and they sucked and were hella loud. I put a high flow cat on, and that sucked too, and then I had a downpipe put on in place of the headers, and it was a tad better, but still sucked. Not only that, but I didn't get much gain/bang for my buck.

If you HAVE to stay NA, the best way to add power is a 3.5 and be done with it. (Or maybe nitrous, never tried that but I'm too scared. :D)

Or...if you really want to make power and get the most bang for your buck, go with the TT conversion, or sell your car and buy a VR4 or RT/TT. That's really the best advice anyone can give. The reason we say that is because we have all owned NA's, and then upgraded them, and then moved on to TT's, and kicked ourselves for all the money we dumped into the NA.

looks like I'll be saving $350 and not doing headers, the last thing I want to do is loose low end power seeing as on the SOHC that's where most of it is. Plus with my luck Im already taking chances running no cat and a catback around here, damn cops, drive the car 6 months a year at the most and all they do is hassle me.

[mb3000]

looks like I'll be saving $350 and not doing headers, the last thing I want to do is loose low end power seeing as on the SOHC that's where most of it is. Plus with my luck Im already taking chances running no cat and a catback around here, damn cops, drive the car 6 months a year at the most and all they do is hassle me.

I absolutely LOVE the low rpm torque the SOHC gives you. :(

[97Pearl3KGT]

I absolutely LOVE the low rpm torque the SOHC gives you. :(

Oh I do too, just I was hoping to spread it out a little.