View Full Version : TT Mivec Build
This is my thread I'm migrating from 3si. The project itself has been done for about 6 months, the car is still a work in progress though. It's pretty damn fast, pretty loud (not overly annoying though), has a great stereo, and is pretty fun to drive (especially considering it's also ATX and FWD). I got the Mivec changing over at 3k rpms and it's actually really smooth. The biggest thing you notice when it changes over is how much louder the exhaust is. I really want to get the car to a dyno and a track so I can see what kind of numbers it can put up. Here's the current state:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/10092010517.jpg
Now to start copying and pasting the progression.
08-28-2008, 03:53 AM
Update 1/08/10: Engine installed. Started an ran 12/22/09 (vid on top of page 20). "Mivec controller" (rpm switch) installed. Seems to work. Just working on small bugs: noisy starter, leaky banjos, vacuum leak/high idle. Should be rolling soon.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I'm taking this kinda slow, but it should be fun. Putting a 6g72 mivec from a diamante 30m (sold in japan only) into a stealth and adding a couple turbos. Right now I'm trying to figure out what to do with the valve covers and oil pump (whether the curent location will interfere with the axle or if a 3s oil pump can fit). And to add to the chaos, it's going to be an auto (shift kit, end clutch, and trans cooler installed). Well, this is going to be something....
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/mivec6g72timing.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/waterpumps.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/mivecoilpump.jpg
Last edited by RL7; 01-08-2010 at 03:09 PM. Reason: update
08-28-2008, 02:03 PM
MichaelMR2- I do have many manuals, including a very nice 6g7 series manual from 2001. The only problem is this engine is not referenced anywhere! I'm not even sure a service manual exists for this particular car. I've almost learned japanese trying to track one down. No holes in the engine that aren't supposed to be there... I think
Ondontii- I'm controlling the mivec with an rpm activated switch. It's controlled by 12v solenoids, give them power, profile changes. Suprisingly simple stuff.
GOTRICE- You're right engine is on the opposite side. That is where most of the the trouble spots are. NA manifolds bolt up fine (the manifolds and most of the other stuff bolted to the engine in the last pic is from the stealth), so the turbo manis shouldn't be a problem. Almost everything has bolted up without much trouble. Had to tap a couple holes and grind the motor mount bracket to clear that water pump, but nothing too serious yet. Can't know if it's more hassle than it's worth until you do it, so I'm doing it. I do anticipate tuning being a bitch, but you never know.
I think next I'm going to drop the pan and see if a 3s oil pump will bolt up. Worst case scenario, I'll have to use the stealth block with these heads. I'm trying to stay away from doing that, but it really may be the easiest option. At least once I pull the pan, I can see if it's a 2-bolt or 4-bolt.
Last edited by RL7; 08-28-2008 at 02:19 PM. Reason: changed pic reference
08-29-2008, 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GOTRICE View Post
That is good news, sounds like you're going to make this happen.
So on this line of thinking what gbox are you using and how are you mounting it? (ie engine on your drivers side or altering mounts and engine passenger side?)
How are you tuning it?
Just using the stock auto gearbox for now. All 3 motor mount brackets bolted into the correct location, so mounting the engine in the normal driver side position shouldn't be too tough. Haven't even thought about tuning yet. First step will be to see how poorly it runs with the stock ecu and tt injectors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 91vr4n00maxima View Post
3s oil pump wont work. youll have to work around the location of that oil filter somehow.
Looks like you're probably right.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/08292008007.jpg
Those don't look to similar. The well used one is out of my 91 stealth. Are 2g 3s oil passages in different locations? This block was made in 95, so it would probably be closer to a 2g block. If left alone, would that oil filter interfere with anything (axle, power steering pump)?
Turns out that this is a 2-bolt main. That is pretty weird, considering the heads (see below) are beefed up with extra bolts and the car was rated around 280hp.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/mivechead.jpg
It's becoming more and more tempting to use a 6g74 block...
08-29-2008, 06:27 PM
I was looking for an oil filter relocation kit. Haven't found one yet. I think threads are 12mm x 1.5 and od is about 3". Anyone have a part number or supplier?
09-12-2008, 03:53 AM
Turbo time
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/09122008014.jpg
Going to have to hack up that front bracket a little.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/09122008015.jpg
Man, these turbos look tiny. I've got a stock 300zx turbo sitting on top there for comparison. It is a lot heavier, so the garrett ones may just use more material than the mitsu ones. Front manifold steel and the rear iron? Odd.
Here are the two intake manifolds
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/09122008013.jpg
That's a pretty significant increase in height. Should be fun attempting to shut the hood.
09-12-2008, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by lawdogg View Post
Great stuff man. What did you end up doing about the oil pump?
Nothing yet. I'm probably going to use the one that came with the engine and relocate the oil filter somewhere. I'm waiting until get the oil cooler, because I may relocate the filter using the cooler somehow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustGoFaster View Post
The only extra bolts I see are on the cam caps. These do nothing to add strenght, they are there so they can make oil passages and stuff to run the MIVEC.
Yeah, that was just a quick impression I got by glancing at it. I didn't really think about it too much, just noticed that it was different. I guess there isn't too much force exerted upward on the cams, so the additional bolts probably don't make any real difference. I wouldn't necessairly say that they don't add any strength though, just doesn't add any purposeful strength. I still think it's weird that a 6g72 manufactured in 1995 making that much NA power was a 2 bolt main. I may have to look closer at the bottom end to see if it is different from ours.
09-12-2008, 05:35 PM
I believe drivability and economy suffer in low rpms with a more aggressive cam. Variable cam profiles attempt to give you more power when you need it.
09-12-2008, 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 92EuroDiamante View Post
OH definitely fuel economy is terrible in the low rpm range with an aggressive cam, just didnt think it would matter too much if he is trying to build a performance care. but driveability? what did you mean by that, im interested to learn more.
I assume it means that the engine won't feel as smooth, like it's not really comfortable in that rpm range. I've never swapped cams, so i wouldn't really know firsthand. I just have a basic understanding of this, there are probably other threads with more detailed info. Here's one with some info: MIVEC Heads
09-13-2008, 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache View Post
Would those heads fit on a regular 4-Bolt 3/S block?
And why use the intake manifold that came with that block and not the 3/S one? Won't have any clearance issues using the one our cars come with.
Heads should fit a regular 3s block. I was initially going to use the stealth manifold, but after a second look, i don't think that there was any chance of it clearing. I'm going to use the back half of the stealth manifold and the front half of the other.
09-14-2008, 01:39 AM
The mivec heads are much taller. The upper intake manifold on the mivec engines reaches down 2.5" or so lower. The lower intake manifolds are pretty much the same so the ports would line up.
Chopped the front motor mount bracket:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/09142008016.jpg
That pic may be useful if anyone wants to recycle this part when doing a conversion. Just be careful with the grinder, I wasn't and I think I cut my finger down to the bone.
09-15-2008, 02:42 PM
Well, I got it cleaned and patched up pretty fast and considering it was hit with a grinder, it didn't seem that bad. It probably could have used a stitch or two, but I figured a bandaid wrapped carefully would hold ok. I took the gaurd and the handle off the grinder for ease of use, so I was kind of asking for it. It didn't actually happen when I was cutting though. I was changing the disk and accidentially hit the power switch. I don't leave it plugged in anymore. Looks like its healing ok:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/09152008020.jpg
But the real reason for that pic is that the two halves of the intakes do not line up. This is a bit of a problem and leaves me with a few choices:
1. Use the stealth intake with a large intake spacer. The spacer would probably have to be custom fabricated, I don't think stacking 5 normal intake spacers would be very practical.
2. Use the plenum from the mivec engine and plumb the intake to the opposite side of the engine.
3. Cut and weld to make the correct manifold.
I leaning towards option 2 since I think you need a tig and good welding skill to weld aluminum and I have neither right now.
09-17-2008, 12:06 AM
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/09162008022.jpg
The stealth plenum just barely cleared the head with the valve cover removed. I cut the oil fill thing and some other protruding things off what will now be the rear valve cover. The pic above shows the gap between the upper and lower intake manifolds. It needs a 2" spacer. Now where can I get one of those? Mabye I can find a machine shop that can cut one using a gasket.
09-17-2008, 02:33 PM
I was thinking about the welding prospect yesterday. I remembered that my friend knows a good welder that does work for him. I could cut the two sides of the mivec plenum correctly and have him weld it back together. The other possibility is that I could make the back myself out of steel and screw the front part of the mivec plenum into it. My crappy flux core welder could probably handle that. The only problem with that is that I would lose the VICS system. I haven't really researched if vics is beneficial to a turbo engine or not, but the vics system looks like it's improved on the mivec plenum (bigger ports), so I would like to try it out.
10-07-2008, 02:46 AM
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/10072008031.jpg
Made a custom manifold. Still need to finish all the welding and make sure everything is straight. I probably then grind down all those shitty welds (I've never really welded before) and paint it. But, it does look like it should work.
As for the oil, I drilled and tapped the oil pump and the oil filter housing and I put a freeze plug into the oil return port on the pump.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/10072008036.jpg
I'm going to run the oil from the pump -> oil filter housing -> oil cooler -> block. I will use oil cooler lines to connect everything. I will have to find somewhere to mount the oil filter housing.
I was pretty sure that the oil pan was aluminum, but I tried to weld an oil return to it it anyway. Didn't work, it was aluminum. I'm going to have to figure out something else for that.
10-07-2008, 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ondontii View Post
I wouldnt grind those welds. I regret doing that on my manifold.
Why do you regret it? Did something bad happen?
My poor prep, mediocre welding skill, and cheap welder means that to get the manifold airtight, there is a very good chance that I'll have to go over some areas of those welds again anyway. Plus some of the welds are just horrible looking. I could take a closer pic, but it's almose embarassing. Fortunately, my welding skill is improving, so any rewelds should look a little more acceptable.
10-07-2008, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache View Post
So did you end of scrapping the VICS system then?
Yeah, for now at least. I'm not going to throw any parts away in case I want to try it in the future. Plus, I couldn't really find anything that said vics makes a mind-blowing difference on turbo cars. Although, the more I look at this thing I made, the more I think that I could have made some sort of adapter plate much more easily...
Old 10-07-2008, 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Monnin View Post
Why don't you just put those heads on a 6G72 3S engine?
The timing belt drive is a little differnt from a 6G74 engine but the oil pan is close
I was definitely considering that, but then I would have to buy another shortblock or rebuild mine. Plus if I did that, I would probably want to use a 6g74 block. It just seemed like it could get pretty expensive fast. It would also add another engine block to my random auto parts collection, which is too big right now. This project would have definitely been a lot more straightforward if I started with a good TT shortblock and these heads (provided they bolt and line up, which is very likely). There is a good chance it will be a future project when this engine goes.
10-09-2008, 02:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Monnin View Post
Could you do me a favor and compare the MIVEC CAM gears to 3S CAM gears?
Are they the same diameter? Do they have the same number of teeth?
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/10092008037.jpg
Same. The timing belt has the same number of teeth as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache View Post
So are you saying now that you don't even think these heads would bolt up to a regular 6G72? That would seriously suck as a set of MIVEC heads is something I've been wanting to do for a while... Still getting my car into full running order for now though...
No, not at all. I'm 97% sure that the heads will bolt up. But the fact remains that I have not bolted the heads up to a 3s block, so I am hesitant to say that it works for sure. There is that small chance that it wouldn't be plug-and-play. I suppose I'll look closer at the pattern of the head bolts and the dimensions next time I get a chance. I'll post if I find anything that doesn't look right.
10-09-2008, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Monnin View Post
Just get a used 3S head gasket and hold it to the bottom of the head.
If you haven't already I would suggest tearing the engine apart and cleaning everything. The JSPEC engines I have bought the ring lands have so much sludge in them that the rings are locked in position. You can just take the whole piston,ring and rod assembly and let it soak overnight in a can of Carberator cleaner, then spin the rings untill all the sludge oozes out. it woudl be better to hone the block and install new rings but this method is better than leaving the engine sealed up and hoping it lives
Good to know. I didn't really want to tear the engine down, but it will probably save time in the long run. Although, I have my stealth block here that I was going to have hot-tanked and honed. At that point it would be almost pointless to use the mivec block. Hmmm... Seems I'm at a bit of a crossroads here...
10-09-2008, 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache View Post
Is the stealth block a 2-Bolt or a 4-Bolt? I personally would go with the block that is stronger (designed for boost) as opposed to the questionable block that you've got. Although if you've only got a 2-Bolt 6G72 then I guess that would make the decision a little harder.
Unfortunately both are 2-bolts. Mabye I'll just get this bolted together and running as it is, knowing it will likely fail at some point. In the meantime I can find a more suitable bottom end.
10-13-2008, 03:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sardonic_tactician View Post
Sweet project! Will you be running the JDM wiring and engine controls? Assuming not since you mentioned the RPM switch for switching cam profiles..
Thought it might be a coil-on-plug ignition from a previous pic, but it's just a different type of wasted spark setup with 3 coils?
The intake looks like a great design, should smooth out nicely.
The engine did not come with a harness or ecu, so I will most likely have to use mine. I could get the harness and ecu for this engine, but it would not be easy. I also thought that the ignition was coil on plug at first, but there are indeed only three coils, so it looks to be a similar ignition to ours. Edit: Ignition is wasted spark CoP with three coils.
Took care of the oil returns. I just marked where they met the pan and grinded that spot pretty flat (only necessary on rear) and drilled the 6 holes. I tapped the outer holes and installed the lines with liberal amounts of ultra copper. I also put nuts on the bolts inside the pan to back up the aluminum and to help with the fact that I accidentally drilled one of the holes too big.
Last edited by RL7; 11-24-2008 at 05:34 PM. Reason: corrected info
10-19-2008, 04:43 AM
Unfortunately, I took an unexpected swim last night when I was attempting to get on my friend's boat. My phone/camera was in my pocket and now the screen doesn't work. So, I probably won't have any new pics up until I replace the screen in a week or so.
The AAM manifold does look like it would work and it definitely looks nice, but I don't think it would perform very well with no runners. It didn't look like that manifold ever got past testing and the price for it was also extremely high. If I was going to spend $1000 for the manifold on this project, I would be more likely to just buy a tig and do it myself.
I am still working on the manifold, making sure that it's airtight. I put the oil pan back on and cut the hole for the driver side intercooler. I accidentially broke one of the brackets off an intercooler. Turns out these are aluminum also. Wonderful... I guess I'll have to "jb-weld" the bracket back on and hope that the parts don't get too hot.
11-18-2008, 05:19 AM
Stupid crappy internet, I just typed a long thing up and the browser decided to freeze and lose everything. I'm too tired to write all that again, but this project is still slowly moving along. Had to modify valve covers, pretty much finished with the manifold which will probably be remade in the future, and some more misc stuff
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/11182008045.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/11182008046.jpg
11-22-2008, 05:19 AM
I think I have the oil feeds worked out. Used some 1/4 in swagelok fittings, copper tubing, and the stock oil feed lines cut in specific places. Conveniently, there is another hole on this block where I connected that joint thing and connected the first oil line to that:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/11212008047.jpg
I'm just worried about how that line is in contact with the exhaust manifolds. Hopefully this doesn't cause heat problems. From there added a T fitting with one side going to the rear turbo and the other going to a length of copper tubing and then to the front turbo:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/11212008048.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/11212008049.jpg
I think I like the way that this came out. Wasn't too difficult either.
12-02-2008, 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uniuno View Post
What did you end up doing about the oil fill hole? Keep it clean looking and remove the valve cover to add oil?
Lookin good, can't wait to see it run!!
Pretty close to that. I carefully drilled and tapped the valve cover (it's pretty thin) for the oil drain plug from the stealth. I'm just using that for now. I just have to use a really narrow funnel to fill the oil.
I was priming the oil system by hand so I could kind of flush out any crap in the engine before putting in clean oil and turning it with the starter. The fitting in the above pic was leaking quite a bit. I attempted to solve the leak by tightening, but banjo bolts don't like to be tightened all that much and it snapped. After a fairly legnthy broken bolt extraction process, I solved the problem by adding a few extra copper washers to each side of the banjo fitting.
I'm just a bit stuck on the ignition right now. It looks like it would be difficult to mount the coil pack from the stealth and the wires are a little short. I'm trying to figure out the coil on plug wiring, but it looks like it may have to be trial and error with that. Here's the wiring that I'm dealing with, stealth first:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/stealthignition1.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/cop_wiring.jpg
That's probably as confusing to most people as it is to me. From what I gather, 6 wires go into the stealth's ptu/igniter: power, ground, tach, and 3 signal wires ("transistor bases"), 1 for each coil. 3 signal wires ("transistor collectors") go from the ptu to the coil pack. The CoP coils have igniters (transistors) built into them. This poses a bit of a problem. The easy way would be to remove the ptu altogether, but then there would not be an rpm signal. The other easy way would be just to wire the ignition about the same without sending additional power to the coils. This just may work if done properly and will probably be what I try first. The next option would be to send power to the coils but not to the ptu. The third option would be to send power to both the ptu and the coils, but I have a feeling that having igniters in series is not a good idea. I think I'm babbling, hopefully this just works somehow.
01-04-2009, 06:41 PM
Had the real world jump in and put the build on hold for a bit. I should be back at it shortly. I got almost all the oil circuit bolted up and primed. Fixed a few leaks and broke some bolts. Mechanically, I just need to get a couple minor parts and do a few finishing touches and then I can drop the engine in. But then I'll need to figure out this ignition and tuning and hopefully there won't be any vacuum leaks. I'm also anticipating having to cut or modify the hood.
01-06-2009, 01:29 PM
Yeah, the manifold probably will be the problem. I'm not quite sure how much taller this engine is over stock, but it looks to be at least a few inches. Now that I think about it, it may be easier just to build another manifold with a lower profile if this one does not fit. Once the engine is in the car, I can get an idea of the amount of space I have. I wasn't all that happy with the first manifold anyhow.
02-24-2009, 04:09 PM
Still on hold. A lot of random things have kept me from getting any real work done. I will be getting back to it shortly thanks to daylight savings time. I still haven't really figured out the CoP thing. I figure I'll just get everything bolted together and use trial and error with the ignition until something works. One annoying thing is that there is some sort of notch in the spark plug holes that prevents a normal socket from getting down there. Not sure why mitsubishi would do this.
03-09-2009, 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuel View Post
Hi, the notches are there for the cam lobes and associated MIVEC rocker shafts to fit as they run close to the spark plug tubes. My 6A12 MIVEC is the same, and you require a slim line spark plug tool from Mitsubishi. You can get away with grinding down a 3/8" drive spark plug socket though, but don't expect it to last for many spark plug removals as the edges will crack if the socket is pretty substandard in quality.
Also just wondering what you did regarding the higher compression ratio of the MIVEC engine, did you fit thicker headgaskets to reduce compression ratio or are you running it as is?
Cheers,
Phil
Thanks for the info. Good to hear that the notches are at least there for a reason. I am going to run at the stock compression for now. I think the compression is 10:1. If I recall correctly, the 6A12 has a compression ratio of 11:1 or something like that. The guts of the two heads do actually look a bit different. I was expecting them to be almost exactly the same. I think if I was to lower compression I would probably just use different pistons instead of risk two thicker head gaskets though.
05-11-2009, 03:39 PM
Wow, I haven't been getting e-mail updates from this thread. I didn't realize that it was this active.
Anyway, I just wrapped up some serious work on one of my other cars and work on the stealth will recommence today. I think I'm going to go back to the ignition. It is looking like it may be difficult to get that pseudo-CoP ignition to work, so I think I'm going to try to mount the ptu and get some longer wires. That seems like it would be easiest. I'll work on this today and see where it goes.
Fuel, is this your pic?
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/te71se/93%20Galant%20VX-R/engine.jpg
It was on another forum and the user name was 'fuel'. If that is your car, do you know if the uper intake manifold pictured there would bolt up to a 6g72 lower manifold? Of course, I would suspect that the throttle body dimensions would not be the same. But regardless, that manifold looks like it could be quite useful...
05-11-2009, 07:21 PM
Damn, I've been trying to find a manifold that bolts right up. Most of the plenum stuff is talked about earlier in the thread (page 4 for me, around post 36). Unfortunately the 3/s rear part of the manifold does not bolt up to the mivec front part and a 2" spacer would be required to use the stealth upper. I may look again to see if I can make some sort of adapter plate to connect the two pieces. I'll probably wait until I have the engine in the car to do further manifold work. That way I will know what kind of space I have to work with. There were some DOHC 6g72 diamantes over here.
05-12-2009, 01:36 AM
Got the coil packs bolted up:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/05122009056.jpg
I probably should have just done this to start. Wasn't all that difficult, just had to weld a couple bolt things, drill a hole, and fab a little bracket. I will lose the "cool-factor" of having that weird ignition, but it was looking to be a lot more trouble than it was worth. This will make things a lot simpler. The stealth wires can be made to work, 5 of the 6 are connected above. The mivec and non-mivec wires are pictured above. One of the stealth wires is a bit too short, but otherwise they all could work. I'm going to get some new wires. Hopefully I can find something that fits well, but if not, 3/s wires will have to do.
On a side note, LED flash stinks. Xenon takes much nicer pictures (see earlier pictures courtesy of my now water damaged n82). I can't figure out why stupid nokia won't put out another phone with xenon flash. I don't care that it makes the phone larger, they're getting too damn small anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuel View Post
a 2" spacer?? I placed the turbo plenum over the MIVEC y-section and I sat it resting on the cylinder head and I measured approx 20mm between the two flanges so I figured a 1" spacer would be sufficient.
I guess the 6a12 mivec may not be quite as high as the 6g72 mivec. The 2" was more of an estimate, but either way, it's a pretty significant gap. One of the earlier pics shows the gap. I guess a 1" spacer would be easier, but I could only find 1/4" spacers commercially available, it just wasn't very practical. I'd imagine a good machine shop with high-tech equipment could cut a spacer from a gasket, but I never looked into that. It would probably be a little expensive.
Last edited by RL7; 05-14-2009 at 12:15 PM. Reason: wrong part name
05-12-2009, 01:29 PM
Ah, I think I had a 2" gap because I was using an NA manifold. The extra runner stuff makes it sit even higher. That Galant looks like a pretty cool project. Should be a pretty fun car when it's done. I forgot what exactly I did with the injectors, but I remember running into that difference and I did do something. I have TT injectors mounted up now and all looks well.
If you look at the pic above I have the mivec spark plug lead next to the stealth one. I separated the stealth leads where they attach to the dust covers and I can just run them down into the holes and pop them into place with a bolt or screwdriver or something like that. Not the most elagant solution, but it should work if nothing better does.
I really don't see the stock hood clearing everything considering normally the hood just about sits on the intake manifold. But, who knows, it could happen.
05-22-2009, 07:19 PM
I did get around to grinding a spark plug socket to remove the plugs:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/05222009059.jpg
The front bank uses different spark plugs than the rear. The rear used platinums instead of copper, I'm assuming this was to increase the lifetime so they wouldn't need to be changed as often as the fronts. I ordered 6 of the copper plugs one step colder. Those aren't a very common plug.
I poured some urethane motor mounts:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/05222009057.jpg
I used some of this stuff. (ebay link) I dont think it was that expensive when I bought it. It looks to be enough to do at least two sets of mounts. This stuff was cool as hell to work with.
Besides that, I've installed a seal on my transmission, got the resistors for the injectors and tested the Mivec solenoids. Both work. I've got the Mivec wiring pretty much figured out. Time to break out the soldering iron and electrical tape.
I also ripped the exhaust out of my car. I'm thinking I may have an exhaust shop make a custom exhaust from the downpipes (j-spec "precats") back. I'm not sure if it would be safe to drive it to the shop without an exhaust though. Probably better to get at least a downpipe first.
I'm starting to really think I should get some sort of fuel controller and a wideband air/fuel meter since the cam switch and boost will probably make the n/a ecu's brain explode.
05-30-2009, 05:21 AM
I think you would need 8 of those (plenum spacers) for a n/a manifold and 4 for a tt manifold. Pretty expensive and probably not a very good set-up. A custom made spacer could work well.
I put on the timing belt. The timing marks were different:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/05232009061.jpg
I'm a little concerned about that, but everyhing lined up, so it should be ok. I had to put the auto-tensioner pulley in a different position, but the tension was right at the end. I don't like that timing belt tensioner set-up at all. Seems like that pully bolt could just come a little loose and release tension on the belt. This, of course, would destroy the engine. I'd feel a lot safer with a fixed pulley and a mechanical tensioner. I hate when engineers overcomplicate things.
Everything is starting to come together pretty well. Most of the timing belt covers fit with some modifications. I broke pieces off of them with pliers where necessary and used a plastic welder to add a piece to one part. Unfortunately most of the piece I added, I had to cut off because the power steering tensioner is so close to the cover. Looks like the last major modification I will have to make is to cut off the top of the accessory belt tensioner bracket. That auto tensioner is in the way and there is no bolt hole there anyway. The bracket will still have two of the three bolts. That should work ok. I may try to figure out a way to bolt the third to the block somewhere, but the ac compressor bracket that it bolts to is pretty solid.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/05302009068.jpg
Installed the spark plugs and wires. Started wiring the mivec stuff. I wired the two solenoids in series to make sure they would trigger. They did. That's good. I think I'm going to mount the RPM switch on the MAS. That way, it's close to the mivec solenoids, ptu (for the rpm signal), and the battery. Only real question is whether the rpm switch will understand the rpm signal properly.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/05302009069.jpg
This should be going into the car pretty soon. Oh, I may also have to cut part of that transmission plate (or whatever it's called), if I feel like being lazy and not getting intermediate shaft out of the way.
05-31-2009, 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter83 View Post
RL7, did you get this engine from Ricky's auto center? i'd love to see it before it goes in. would you be interested meeting up?
It's been a while, but I checked the website (Raceup - Ricky's Auto Center JDM Engines & Installation) and I'm fairly certain that is where I got it. I know it was definitely a place like that in Miami and I did initially find it on ebay. The people there seemed pretty cool. Mabye they could track down more of these engines/heads.
You're welcome to come by and take a look at this thing. Just send me a PM and we'll figure it out. I suspect it will take me about two weeks to tie up the remaining loose ends and get it dropped back into the car.
06-01-2009, 05:14 AM
I ended up just grinding about an inch off the long part of the a/c tensioner bracket and all 3 bolts went in fine. I needed to use a longer bolt in the position that now holds both the bracket and the timing belt tensioner. I also used a copper washer because, as usual, I took off just a bit too much with the grinder.
I decided to do the turbo plumbing by adding bungs to the na water neck. That was pretty straightforward, but getting the rubber hoses on the bungs was a bitch and a half. It probably took 2 hours just to get those 4 rubber hoses on.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/06012009070.jpg
I also had to modify the right SMIC to get around the atx. Not much to that: just put a jack handle into the intercooler tube and hit the handle against the ground. Straightened the tube out pretty well without damaging anything. Both intercoolers are bolted up. I also removed the charcoal canister because it looked like it would get in the way. I may put that back if there's room.
07-01-2009, 05:54 PM
Yeah it's just about there. I decided to handle tuning in a slightly more intelligent manner, so I got a TT ecu (a 93, perfect for this application) and an e-Manage blue. I had to clean up the ecu a bit here:ECU doesn't look too good. pics. I will have to get all that wired up. I soldered the resistors into the rear bank injectors, I still need to do the front. I also painted the wheels (the rest of the car will follow), and I have to clean up the engine bay. I keep putting that one off for some reason.... I should get it done this weekend.
My other car is pissing me off right now, so I've had to spend a bit of time on that. I'm also waiting on a stupid cable for the e-manage, but all I really need to do to the engine itself is route one of the PCV hoses and mabye put a bracket on the manifold. So this seems to be the to-do list:
1. Route PCV hose to catch can and intake.
2. Clean engine bay.
3. Solder front resistors.
4. Torque crank pulley (putting this here to make sure I remember).
5. Drop engine.
But there will still be a few more things after that:
6. Bolt up/connect everything, put bracket on manifold.
7. Remove trans mount and convert it to urethane.
8. Figure out specifics of oil filter and cooler routing/mounting.
9. Change the oil.
10. Wire up ecu, e-manage, rpm switch, mabye other things.
11. Add fuel stabilizer/octane booster to the old gas in the tank.
12. Install fuel pump.
At that point the car should start and the project can continue. Mostly that would be "discovering" that the hood does not fit and modifying it, installing an exhaust (probably true dual), tuning, and paint. If it doesn't start, I will have a lot of troubleshooting to do.
07-06-2009, 02:07 AM
The timing marks on the valve covers were a lot different for this engine and I think I have it sorted out. If not, I do know what bad timing sounds like unfortunately. Anyway, here's some more stuff:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/06202009116.jpg
Painting the wheels with some leftover paint I had. I didn't much care how they came out, because I was going to throw them away. I'm going to use the black center caps, should look ok.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/06242009120.jpg
Thought that this was interesting. I cut the na downpipe and noticed it bolted up like this. If I connected pipes to these outlets, they would run side by side. Looks like it should be easy to run a pipe back from each turbo.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/06182009115.jpg
Here's how I installed the resistors in the rear harness.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07052009130.jpg
Here's the car that the engine is going into. This is a somewhat involved restoration project. I was planning to get rid of the car and I was using it mostly to destroy things.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07052009133.jpg
The "clean" engine bay.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07052009135.jpg
Here's the little catch can I made. Used a mini air compressor filter, took out some of the internal parts and put some steel wouu in there. I tried to put it somewhere that would make it easy to remove and drain.
I also removed the seats and a bunch of other junk that was in the car. That should make wiring a lot easier. I just have to solder those resistors and I'll be able to install the engine.
07-26-2009, 02:08 PM
Ok... got the engine in.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07262009155.jpg
That was quite an ordeal in itself. The stupid atx always goes wherever it wants and leaks gallons of fluid in the process and the engine kept wanting to go in crooked and get caught up on stuff. Took me hours. I should probably get a load-leveler. Sometimes a seatbelt just doesn't cut it.
Lowered the hood:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07262009152.jpg
Gap! Even without any manifold!
I then added the manifold, knowing the results could be scary:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07262009162.jpg
Big gap!
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07262009165.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07262009167.jpg
So, I went about modifying the hood.
Mark, cut, move into place:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07262009169.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07262009171.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07262009173.jpg
Hood is closed with manifold in the last two pics.
I'll probably have some sort of vent at the rear of that opening, add brackets, and glass it over.
07-26-2009, 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markingtime View Post
It sure looks pretty in there. It will be interesting to see the hood after it is all done and painted. The face of the rear opening would also be a trick place to mount some gauges that would be readable from inside the car. How long before you think you can fire it up? When this is done we need some good pictures for next years calender.
That's a damn good idea with the gauges! Wiring them up would be a snap as well. I hadn't yet figured out where I'd put some of the gauges, but that should work pretty well. I should be at the point where I attempt to fire it up in the next couple weeks unless I run into something really crazy when I'm connecting everything together.
10-23-2009, 03:49 AM
Still chugging along. Been doing a lot of painting and bodywork. Picked up some tein coilovers and installed them. I installed the fuel pump. There were some issues there.. very rusty, broke that fuel feed tube and had to remove it and replace it with some assorted fittings and lines. The engine is connected to the atx now. I didn't swap the flex plates, assuming that they were the same, but of course, the holes were off by a few mm and I had to get down there with a drill and dremel to fix that problem. I also probably should have turned around that plate that goes between the engine and trans. I'm going to have to cut the part that would obstruct the starter. The only issue I have now is figuring out the oil routing and mounting.
I'm working on this hood at the moment.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/10212009243.jpg
I just gotta decide which direction I want to go with it. The way I have it now slopes pretty steeply and keeps the hood blisters, but then looking at it, I had another idea. I could slope out from the bump more gradually and eliminate the blisters. I mocked up some duct tape to get a rough idea of how that would look:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/10212009245.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/10212009247.jpg
I may have to do some photoshopping or something to figure out how each one of these would look. I'm thinking if I keep the blisters the hood may have too much going on.
10-23-2009, 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inperfectdarkness View Post
ditch the blisters. make it a huge cowl if you have to. looks awesome. keep it up!
Quote:
Originally Posted by markingtime View Post
I think I have to go with eliminating the blisters too. I think it give it smoother lines. Of coarse you could just go with the duct tape look. With people (including my daughter) making clothes and purses out of it maybe you could get Duct Tape to sponsor you.
That would certainly speed things up a bit and it would keep the weight down. I wonder what an entire car covered with duct tape would look like? Sounds like a good prank. Duct tape clothes and purses is a pretty funny idea, but hell, it makes a lot more sense to me than going out and paying hundreds of dollars for such items because they are fashonable. I usually get a kick out of random creativity like that.
I will probably use the duct tape as a mold release for the fiberglass. I was using that canned foam to form the shape and if I covered the foam with duct tape it would probably make it smoother and I could tear the foam out pretty easy once I was done. I didn't use it on the sides as they are now and there are some pretty deep holes that would need a lot of filler. I would be kind of uncomfortable just slathering bondo on there to cover all that up and it would make the damn hood weigh a ton (the hood shocks were already having trouble holding the thing up). I've got some metal brackets welded in there to support the bump, so the fiberglass isn't really structural, so I may just work to make it smooth and light using minimal material. I'm glad to hear some agreement that the blisters should go. I've always liked the blisters, but getting rid of them will probably make things better and easier in the end.
10-23-2009, 09:19 PM
Hopefully a couple weeks, but that's optimistic. Really depends how much time I'm able to work on it. College football is a bit of a time robber for me.
Chris@Rvengeperformance
12-08-2010, 06:00 PM
see now that is what hood bulges are for, when the engine physical doesn't fit.
I admire your gumption, if I saw the hood not close by that much It would really throw me off and take a long time before I cut the hood up
11-12-2009, 04:30 PM
I wish my engine came with the mivec cover. It's pretty cool looking, but mine was missing. I actually doubled back on the hood and decided to keep the original shape for now. I went back over it to remove some of the excess fiberglass/filler weight and I added a support bracket to the rear. I put some foam in the rear opening that I will flatten out and use as a frame for more fiberglass. That's been slow because I really hate sanding and that requires a lot of it.
Other than that, one of the radiator bolts broke off as I was reinstalling it. I drilled it out and the drill nicked the a/c condenser upon drilling through..... I think you can guess what happened. That pissed me off something fierce since it's rare to have an 18 year old a/c system that is still functioning well. I have replaced the condenser with one from the junkyard and I have several cans of R12 for recharging. I was happy to find how easy it was to remove the a/c condenser.
I changed the fuel filter and did a few other interesting things. I have just about everything mechanical installed. I just have to install some sort of cover for the flywheel, install all the oil lines and tie up a few other loose ends. I've got the oil filter mounted where the oil cooler normally goes and I have an oil cooler up front. It is getting pretty close to start-up. I try to get some pics up later on.
11-23-2009, 12:57 AM
Here's the current state of the hood:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/11222009265.jpg
I will force myself to finish the hood soon.
Engine:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/11222009258.jpg
Oil and transmission cooler:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/11172009253.jpg
The only real modification I had to do to the intake hoses to go around the intake manifold:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/11222009259.jpg
oil filter location:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/11222009263.jpg
Oil lines, pretty tight fit, also the cv boot "fix":
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/11222009261.jpg
Everythings mostly together. Now I just have to bolt up a couple more things, get the accessory belts situated, prime some oil, and add gas and fluids. At that point the engine might start.
11-23-2009, 02:30 PM
Well, with the cv axle, it only took me like 15 minutes to take it off and I figured the real way to fix it would be to replace it, but that axle is pretty much new. Since I just cut the boot and there is pretty much no way any dirt got in there and I lost little grease, I figured I'd just do this, run it until it fails, and then replace it. I cleaned the boot and tightly wrapped it with electrical tape 3 or 4 times. Then I put some "gorilla tape" over that just to be safe (that's what you see in the pic). It'll probably work fine and if not, it's not going to bother me too much.
The 90 degree thing is interesting. Probably would have to do a little math to figure what kind of difference it would make. I would think it would allow the hood to clear the heads at the very least. There is probably enough room front to back, but things would just be that much tighter and I would think servicing certain things would be made that much more difficult (rear turbo and alternator come to mind). Everything would probably have to be changed just a little bit and I would expect fitting something like that would take a lot of work and creativity/ingenuity.
11-30-2009, 07:24 PM
Well, I got everything bolted up and attempted to start the car. It didn't sound like much. It was making noise but not really cranking. Something was hitting some sheet metal from that plate between the engine and transmission, I expected this would happen and just figured the engine would knock it down pretty easily. Either that wasn't the case or I had a weak battery. Anyway, after 5-10 attempted starts, I heard a bad noise, not really bad, I just knew something had happened. I got under the car and found this:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/11272009270.jpg
The casing of the starter physically broke. I'm assuming that bit of resistance caused by the sheet metal was enough to screw things up. This sucks because I spent about two hours carving up the plate and the starter so it would fit (a starter is not supposed to go there on this engine). I guess now I'll get this thing off, cut out whatever sheet metal was being hit, charge the battery and start modifying the other starter (hopefully it's the same).
12-01-2009, 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markingtime View Post
Looks like there are 3 bolts missing. Did you remove them just before the picture or leave them out entirely?
Because the oil pan is larger and differently shaped than the one on the 3S engine, the front and rear transaxle stays that would normally bolt there don't fit. The bolt holes there don't exactly line up, so I have left them off for now. I will either have to do a lot of cutting on this oil pan, use a 3s oil pan, or just drill some of those holes out and add some bolts. I'll probably end up doing the third option.
I picked up two starters from u-pull-it today, so that should let me continue.
12-23-2009, 01:47 AM
I got the starter problem fixed. When I attempt to crank the engine there is some pretty bad sounding knocking noises. It hasn't started yet. I haven't cranked it for more than about 5 seconds because of the noise. Here's a video:
http://s432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/?action=view¤t=e778c8ed.mp4
I'm going to have to investigate what this might be. It would be annoying if all this custom fitting was for nothing, but I'll get this thing running one way or another, even if I have to buy a 6g74 shortblock.
12-23-2009, 02:27 AM
Nevermind. It helps if you plug in the PTU. Started right up and idled nice. Sounds mean without an exhaust. It smelled and smoked a bit and sounds like a really big chainsaw. I'll do some further looking tomorrow when it's light out. I'll get a vid tomorrow as well.
12-23-2009, 12:53 PM
Here we go:
http://s432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/?action=view¤t=12232009017.flv
12-23-2009, 12:55 PM
Still makes an unnerving sound when starting. The throttle was sticking, which is why I shut it off at higher RPMs like that.
I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'm somewhat suprised that the thing actually runs. There was a number of things that were just not quite the same.
12-24-2009, 11:38 AM
Default Re: TT Mivec build
Quote:
Originally Posted by TajMan View Post
I would think the initial sound is something going on with the starter?
That would definitely be good news. The starter is a junkyard piece that I got for $20 or so and I do have another if this one goes bad. I suppose it could also be aligned improperly. I'll have to check. I can live with a noisy starter though, as long as it isn't causing damage to other parts.
I found out why the throttle was sticking...... The gas pedal was underneath the cabin carpeting. But the throttle cable did need to be adjusted some as well.
01-08-2010, 01:26 AM
The starter is not cooperating. I rebuilt, cleaned, and tested the starter. Works well. I've mounted and removed the thing probably 10 times now. I've shimmed the starter in and out to see if it would make any difference and it hasn't cured the racket. I'm almost positive that the noise is because the starter is pressing against the side of the oil pan and is not aligned properly because of that. I have ground just about as much material as I can off the starter to make it fit:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/01072010292.jpg
That's the "modified" starter next to a normal one. The red tape is covering a small spot that was ground through to keep dirt and moisture out. I'm going to grind some material off the side of the oil pan to see if that can't get this fixed.
I hooked up the RPM switch for the MIVEC and I think it works. I won't knof for sure until a road test. I noticed that my idle was a bit high. That's almost definitely a vacuum leak. Probably time to get a better manifold. The coolant lines to my tb are also removed (I thought these were there to help cold weather starts), so I'll put those back.
The banjo to the rear turbo is leaking and my oil inlet to the block is also leaking. I'll put in some new copper washers and hope for the best.
01-28-2010, 05:34 PM
I think I've got my oil leaks fixed. I pressure tested the intake and found massive vacuum leaks. I suspected the manifold and the injector seals. The injector seals appeared fine, so I haven't replaced those yet. I picked up 3 plenum spacers and a tt manifold. I just got the tt manifold today, so hopefully that will install right and fix the vacuum/boost leaks.
I needed something to inspire me to keep working on this stupid hood, so I picked up a mini cooper hood scoop (yes you read that right) for cheap. The lines looked pretty much right for the hood. It looks like it should work:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/01282010300.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/01282010302.jpg
I also may have a small coolant leak somewhere. I think I fixed it, but we'll see..
02-09-2010, 08:01 PM
HA, HA, HA! F*ck you hood!
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/02092010331.jpg
I'm still a bit lost with this thing. Now I think I'm going to get what's left of it smooth and stretch fabric over it. I'll cover that with resin and then fiberglass or carbon fiber. Then I may shoot gelcoat over that.
Now the throttle body wasn't fitting. I didn't like it, but I made a plate to delete the FIAV and ISC:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/02092010332.jpg
Now I have 4 plenum spacers that I adhered together with rtv rather than putting gaskets between each one. I installed everything and did a leak check and it was much better. As a temporary leak tester, I had cut a piece of wood to block the intake and this was the only place that was leaking badly.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/02092010333.jpg
But now no start, just cranks. I smell gas, so that's probably ok. I suspect the throttle body. I will check the tps since I had to reinstall that and I will verify that I'm getting spark.
Edit- Sure enough, found no spark
Last edited by RL7; 02-09-2010 at 10:05 PM.
02-10-2010, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markingtime View Post
Holy cow. I thought you were all ready to sand and paint that hood?
Kinda, it just wasn't up to my standards. To make it right, I would have had to add more layers of body filler and probably more fiberglass and the thing would have ended up weighing a ton. If I was to half-ass the job like that, I know it would just bother me every time I looked at it. Plus I wasn't 100% sure all the lines were right, so I've been doing a lot of measuring and level work to make sure everything is straight. As it was it had double layers of metal, a thick layer of fiberglass and resin, and a layer of body filler. I figured losing most of this would be a good way to shed weight. This time, I just need to make sure the first layer I put down is smooth and straight and everything else will be easy.
02-11-2010, 03:26 AM
I'm an idiot, I was checking for spark without grounding the plug. I did double check some connections and regardless, now I have spark. I adjusted the tps, fiddled some more with the starter (still a little noisy), and put everything back together. I started it up and it idled around 1k - good, but it was making a racket that I recognize as the starter remaining in contact with the flywheel. I removed the shims because the starter was acting weird, so I guess it's too close again. I'll shim it back out a little, see if I'm getting boost, and then it may finally be time for a road test.
02-12-2010, 08:11 PM
Well, here it is now. The starter is shimmed out a hair too much and the engine is making some sort of weird popping noise that I would like to figure out:
http://s432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/?action=view¤t=ff98fc62.mp4
Anyone have any idea what the noise might be?
02-19-2010, 01:48 AM
Anyone else want to give it a shot?
JDM Mitsubishi Diamante 6g72 Engine Mivec 1995 v6 : eBay Motors (item 260553821373 end time Feb-25-10 07:09:04 PST)
That's a really nice looking engine. It has the transaxle as well. The transmission on that car was one of those manual-auto hybrid types.
I think my engine sound is just a bad spark plug wire. That's what I get for piecing together wires from scrap. I'm going to have to make some custom wires.
02-22-2010, 02:56 AM
Decided to go for a little drive today.
To get to that point, I replaced all the ignition wires with a MSD streetfire custom kit. This was actually really difficult. The whole cutting wires and crimping connectors was easy, but the spark plugs lie 6 inches deep in the heads and the boots provided are only about 3 inches long and made of soft rubber. To seat the terminals on the plugs takes a bit of force, so this created a pretty big problem. I ended up disassembling the original plugs and cutting those boots to a specific size, and I used the dust caps above the cut old boots above the MSD boots to make a "custom" long spark plug boot. I probably should have a picture to show what I mean. At that point they were still difficult to seat on the plugs and I had to do some odd things to get all of them seated.
After all that, of course, no start. Spent a few hours diagnosing and after finding no spark from multiple test wires and plugs, I decided to check the coil connection. I pushed on that to make sure it was tight, and sure enough, started right up. Weird popping noise is reduced to almost none. The clip on this connector is broken and I think this may have been the third or fourth time it has screwed with me. The car warmed up sounded good, reved good, time to see if it drives.
Today I carefully pulled the car out of the tent (after making sure reverse and drive engaged normally and worked) and drove it around the block. Alignment was off, extremely loud with out an exhaust, and missing most body panels, but it ran and drove fine. I think I kept the revs under 2k. I returned to the tent and adjusted the idle a bit.
At this point, the car was completely warm and running well, so I decided to see how it would respond to more throttle. I went around the block again and hit the gas a bit more on the opposite street. The revs climbed to about 2.5k and seemed to stall, then the revs just jumped really high and the engine shut off. I rolled as far as I could. I inspected the car to see if I could see anything out of the ordinary, but all looked normal. So, I tried to restart. No luck. Time to start pushing. This car felt heavier than the last time I had to do this. I got about two houses away from mine and sat down in the car to take a break. At this point, I figured it might be a good idea to check that connector again..... I drove the final two houses home.
I'm going to the junkyard tomorrow to get a working connector. I also still have to do some more fitting work on the starter. It still makes some noises it shouldn't be making.
I think the plugs that I'm using may be gapped at 0.044. That is too high and probably would cause problems. I'll have to check this and regap or replace as necessary. I have some Bosch Iridium plugs I took out of my m3 after about 500 miles, so I may try to use those if they aren't too mucked up. I have also read that the fuel pump should be hotwired. I will probably do that.
02-22-2010, 04:36 PM
Making a custom hood isn't all that bad. I'm just making it look hard because I started off wrong and I don't like sanding.
I just got an idea to make the hood easier. I think I may:
-remove that entire middle section (from the scoop up)
-cover the engine tightly with a sheet or tarp or something
-put the hood back on the car
-cover that entire area with foam
-carve the foam, correctly, using levels ,lines, and rulers
-add body filler if necessary
-apply a release agent to the foam
-neatly cover foam with fiberglass or carbon fiber
-fill, sand, and paint
This is probably what I should have done from the start. I may use a lot of body filler on the foam since it will be just a throw-away mold and if I get that perfect, the final piece will need minimal body work. I was leaning towards carbon fiber, but I may just use fiberglass since I'll probably end up painting everything black. If the price difference turns out to be small, I'll just use the carbon fiber. I will not need as much clearance using the tt manifold. My manifold was pretty huge.
02-23-2010, 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markingtime View Post
Very impressive! Sounds like you are in the home stretch.
If you go carbon fiber on the hood won't you have to vacuum cure and bake it?
I don't know much about carbon fiber, but I don't think that's required. I think that's just a better way to do it. I was just going to get some cloth and resin from here: Fiberglass , Epoxy , Composites, Carbon Fiber - U.S. Composites, Inc. and treat it like fiberglass.
02-23-2010, 06:11 PM
From what I gather, this does look to be a valid way to work with carbon fiber. This is the "hand lay-up" method. This method is primitive and the other methods have advantages, but this does look like it should work fine if done properly. Any time a part is "hand laid carbon fiber," this is what they mean. Basically the fabric is applied to a mold and then the resin is rolled into the fabric.
03-02-2010, 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue3kGTSL View Post
This wont fit under deft-racings oem raised cowl hood?
Most of Cianci's hoods are raised some too i believe
I suppose it's possible. I couldn't really say unless I had one of those hoods to test though. Once I actually have a finished hood, it may give a slightly better idea.
I made this thing with the IAC/FIAV I removed:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/02162010334.jpg
I just cut the FIAV part away, filled the holes with jb weld and added some hose barbs. It works for now, idled better when I started it with this installed, but I will look for a more permanant solution.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/03012010336.jpg
I pulled the front 3 plugs and I believe they might be carbon fouled. The gaps seem ok though. I think these are gapped to about 0.030 and that should be fine. I suspect the plugs may be fouling because the mixture is too rich. I'm going to have to install my wideband and and exhaust to check. I have a narrowband gauge that I'll probably hook up to the current O2 just to check.
03-08-2010, 04:06 AM
I think I got the starter about right. I put the plugs back in and the engine fired right up and sounded good. I'm getting the ss parts delivered to make my exhaust. I just got a cheap tig welder- I'm pretty excited to start doing that. Got back to the hood and it really doesn't look like I need that much room at all:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/03072010337.jpg
Put some foam on it and the hood is finally starting to look like something I can work with:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/03072010338.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/03072010339.jpg
03-15-2010, 03:54 PM
The hood is about ready for fiberglass (carbon fiber probably wouldn't make much sense). I used oil based clay over the foam mostly because I didn't want to sand a bunch of body filler. The clay is pretty cool because you can melt it down, pour it, and spread it like you would bondo. Then you can mold it as long as you want since it never dries. It is hard to get really smooth. Being oil based, I don't think the clay will stick to the resin, but it won't really matter if it does. I also have almost all my exhaust supplies. I'm just waiting on an argon bottle.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/03152010340.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/03152010341.jpg
03-16-2010, 02:21 AM
Thanks, I think I'll just be happy having the scoop serving to ventilate the engine bay for now. There should be a little extra room on that side so it should be possible to duct it somehow. I also can't wait to have the hood in primer. It's been a pretty long quest with this hood.
I'm liking the way the exhaust is taking shape. I'm using an h-pipe section from an ls2 corvette. It's about 4 feet long with dual 2.5 pipes close together and it's made of "aluminized stainless steel." It looks like it's going to work very well. Everything else is supposed to be 304 stainless. I should have some pics of the exhaust stuff tomorrow.
03-17-2010, 02:34 AM
Getting the exhaust together:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/03172010342.jpg
I just need about 8 feet of straight tubing in that missing section. Pretty straightforward, I think it's going to be loud. I should finally have my gas tomorrow so I can start learning how to tig. I tacked a couple of the parts with my flux core welder, but I didn't do much because that will just add places to rust.
I haven't been able to finish the clay partially because I wanted to play with my new cut-off saw and exhaust parts and partially because it's been florida cold out for the last few nights. The clay is much easier to work when it's hotter out, it likes to crumble when its cooler.
03-17-2010, 02:39 PM
Good guess- 60 is just about right. Were freezing down here! It's been really comfortable out lately, but the clay would be happier if we had summer temps when it's 90 at night. There is room in the tunnel with no drive shaft. I'm probably going to be fwd at least until my atx blows. So for now, the drive shaft thing is not really an issue. With a drive shaft, diff, and two axles in there, I would be doubtful that this would fit right as-is, but it could probably be cut and modified to fit ok. I'm pretty sure I've seen some true dual set-ups on vr4s that looked like they worked. Of course, I've only been going by mesurements to put this together so far. I won't really know how it fits until I get it mocked up into the car.
03-17-2010, 07:18 PM
Nah, I'm not nutty enough to convert awd to fwd. The car is a stealth es- fwd auto since birth.
05-10-2010, 03:30 AM
FINALLY got primer on the hood:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/05102010456.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/05102010458.jpg
Now, I'm not going to lie, there's a pretty decent layer of body filler under there. The clay over foam thing did not end up giving me a real good surface. This is mostly due to the fact that I did it so slowly. I would get the clay really close to where I wanted it, but then it would be a week or so until I could get back to it. Unfortunately, temperature and humidity and who knows what else wreaks havoc on the spray foam. The result is that my previously smooth surface would be completely transformed into a hilly landscape of annoyance. i had to redo all this smoothing at least 5 times until I just decided it was close enough and laid down the fiberglass:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/04302010444.jpg
So, if anyone happens to use this method, my advice would be to do it quickly(preferably all at once) or use better foam.
After I laid the fiberglass, I removed all the foam and clay. The fiberglass was too flexible at that point- it would cave in under its own weight. To strengthen it, I reinforced the back side with some chop mat and liberal amounts of resin. I bought some gelcoat but never used it. I instead opted for a sprayable polyester filler (evercoat feather fill). Many, many hours of sanding into this thing.
The amount of time I have put into this hood is ridiculous, but it's finally starting to look like something acceptable. It better come out nice in the end.
I'm also still doing the exhaust stuff. I was really gung-ho with that for a while, but then I pulled my traps (back muscles) somehow and it made welding and getting under the car very painful. Plus doing stuff like that seemed to re-aggrivate the injury, so I just had to take a break for a while. I have the rear of the exhaust mocked up into the car. I just have to get some flanges welded up to the downpipes, piece the front exhaust together, weld on some hangers, and do all the finish welding. I have the most trouble welding different types of exhaust pipe together. The corvette tubes are really thin, so the edges want to burn as soon as you get any heat into it. Welding it to the normal thickness, likely different material tube, is a bitch.
05-20-2010, 02:54 AM
Not driving the car quite yet. It's actually been sitting for pretty long, but I want to get the exhaust up first so I can get an idea of what is going on with the fuel and do some tuning if necessary. I did add sta-bil and octane booster to the gas a while back since I anticipated that some of this could take a while.
I did get the hood painted:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/05192010463.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/05192010464.jpg
I like this color. It's standard black (GM, I believe) and I added silver 'xirallic' pearl.
And now I'm starting to remember that this was a car at one point:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/05202010465.jpg
I'm going to have to think about the hood vent. It sits directly on top of the front spark plugs and I don't know if I want a bunch of water going in there every time it rains. I'll probably try to make some sort of cover to keep that from happening.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/05202010466.jpg
05-20-2010, 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STLVR4 View Post
Will you be attending NG with this car?
I just saw the thing at the top of the page that says it's 32 days away and I don't think it will be completely finished by then. I mean, it could be, but I don't think so. At the moment, there are also some other factors that kind of prevent me from making trips like that. I'd probably have to wait until next year.
07-01-2010, 04:36 PM
I did finish the exhaust. It did end up being a pretty involved project, but now I have a 100% stainless, 2.5" true dual exhaust that looks and sounds good. Plus, now I'm pretty decent at tig welding. I'll get some pics and sound clips of that up at some point.
I have installed my wideband and datalogger and have started the tuning process. Once warm, the car would hesitate badly at 2500 or so and I noticed that the plugs were black and probably fouled, so I replaced them with some iridium plugs I had lying around. I haven't yet reved the engine to see if that has cured this problem, but the "new" plugs don't look fouled yet. The biggest problem so far is that my wideband is reading full lean at idle and I'm pretty sure it's running really rich (I smell like gas after being around the idling car for a few minutes). I have the wideband simulating a narrowband signal to the ecu, so O2 fuel trims would pretty much max out and it seemed to become so rich that the car would stall out at idle. The only glimmer of hope was that the datalogger showed that the O2 gave a reasonable reading when I kicked the revs up a little to prevent a stall. I think there is either a misfire or, more likely, a small exhaust leak that messes the reading up at idle. I may have to remove the signal to the ecu or install a new narrowband sensor in the front o2 housing to solve this problem. I have removed the ISC (again). I'm going to set the idle to 1000-1500 via the fixed sas to see if that simplifies things.
While trying to figure all that out, I noticed that the starter is still making noises I don't like and doesn't always start the car particularly well. I messed with it for a few hours over the last couple days and I have decided that the only way to deal with this is going to be to install the correct plate. So, today the trans comes out and I'll have to get a new plate since I cut the original. I wish I did this earlier. I have spent countless hours with this starter issue.
07-02-2010, 02:11 PM
Definitely not discouraged. I'm more pondering whether I should bother putting the atx back in when there are some vr4 transmissions for sale locally around $500 and I'm already half way there. I mean, I hate autos on cars and I will eventually put a manual in (I was just going to let this atx die). But I upgraded this atx a bit and it would be interesting to see how it does. Plus, I really don't need another transmission hanging around.
07-22-2010, 01:48 AM
I got everything bolted back up and the starter engaged somewhat normally. No bad noises, but it would free-wheel easily. I replaced my oil feed line that was leaking with some different fittings. With that fixed, my rear oil return was leaking. To operate on that I had to either disconnect the oil returns from the turbos (difficult) or cut the lines. I cut the lines. I dropped the pan and attempted to weld it somehow, but the cast aluminum was very uncooperative with dc tig welding or the alumiweld witchcraft crap I also tried. I didn't want to, but I ended up coating the inside with rtv and the outside with jb-weld to build up a little more thickness. I tapped the sides for 1/2 npt hose barbs. Connected those to the old lines with rubber pcv hose.
I also was noticing that cylinder 5 was not firing so I planned to do a compression test. I did that today after getting everything bolted up. Compression was 180+ in 5 cylinders, but cylinder 5 was about 30.... I was really, really, really hoping that wouldn't happen and this was just a spark or fuel issue. Oil put in the cylinder causes the reading to rise... piston or ring issue.
From about two years ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Monnin View Post
If you haven't already I would suggest tearing the engine apart and cleaning everything. The JSPEC engines I have bought the ring lands have so much sludge in them that the rings are locked in position. You can just take the whole piston,ring and rod assembly and let it soak overnight in a can of Carberator cleaner, then spin the rings untill all the sludge oozes out. it woudl be better to hone the block and install new rings but this method is better than leaving the engine sealed up and hoping it lives
Shoulda done that or figured out a way to run a compression test with the engine on the stand. This build has really shown me that most cut corners will cut back in the end. Now I'll probably add some engine restore type snake oil, cross my fingers and hope for the best. More likely I'll have to figure out a way to run on 5 cylinders for now. That will probably mean unplugging the #5 injector and running the fuel correction off the rear bank only.
This also means it's time to start looking for a 6g74 block. No sense rebuilding this one (unless the heads don't bolt up to the 74 block). At least the heads seem good. That's what's important. 8:1 6g74 with these heads will be nasty... and serious overkill for fwd.
07-22-2010, 06:59 PM
Here's the exhaust, it's a little challenging to photograph:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07222010482.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07222010483.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07222010484.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07222010485.jpg
I did have to cut a little bit of metal off the car to accommodate it, but nothing too serious.
The stealth has lost it's home! I have taken down the portable tent that has sheltered the car for the last couple years. It definitely makes working easier, unless it is raining. Here is the car today, after being washed for the first time in several years:
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07222010487.jpg
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq49/rlyons7/07222010489.jpg
It should look pretty nice once I paint the back half and the trim. I may shoot a few extra coats of clear over the whole thing to make sure everything shines right.
I'm hoping that the compression ring on that piston might just be stuck in old dried oil. I filled the 5 piston with a 50/50 mixture of seafoam and oil and let it sit. I may run it for 15 minutes and then re-do the compression test to see what happens.
08-04-2010, 06:57 PM
Wow, quite a trip for the last week or so. I redid the compression test on cyl 5 and it was still low, so I figured I would run the car for a bit with the seafoam in the oil. Bolted everything back up including the isc and starter after inspecting and cleaning a bit. Car cranked- kinda poorly, but wouldn't start. I figure ok- starter is messed up, hopefully. I see autozone remanufactured starters have a lifetime warantee, so I figure what the hell and get one to see if it helps. I observe the parts guy give me the starter for a manual transmission (wrong starter for my car), but is was cheaper and the bendix gear is slightly larger, so I figure it may help if the teeth on my ring gear are chewed a bit. Plus I figure I will be able to exchange it if it doesn't work since the parts guy is making the error (you normally cant return starters). I bolt that starter up and crank the engine. Sounds better, but it still doesn't fire. The starter did bolt up with a little bit of resistance, so I take it back and get the auto starter. I installed that and it seemed to crank well, but still no start. Mabye I flooded the #5 cylinder? I crank with the spark plug out and nothing really comes out. Decide to ground a plug and check for spark. Guess what? No spark.
Now how the hell did that happen? I did nothing to the ignition system since it was last running except install new plugs and remove the 20A fuse while compression testing. I was pretty confident brand new plugs should spark and I tested every ignition related fuse in the car to make sure those were ok. So, I reluctantly removed the coils and ptu and bench tested them. They tested fine. I also bench tested the isc- fine. Made sure everything was plugged up correctly and tried to start again and still no start, no spark (I had bought a tester at this point). Swapped in my old ecu and no difference. Last thing I was going to look at was the cam and crank angle sensors. I tried to test these on car with a digital multimeter and a paperclip. I put the car to on and turned the engine by hand to see if I would read any voltage variation on the sensor wires and there was none. I repeated this test a few times for various reasons and at one point, the sensor suddenly started cycling in voltage and you could hear the fuel pump activate at certain points as the engine turned. Went to start the car and it had spark and fired right up. Next time I wanted to start it, sensors were dead again.
So, ok, apparently my cam and/or crank angle sensor is malfunctioning. This is a little annoying because they are different part numbers and I'm not sure if standard 3s parts will work (I begin to contemplate that THIS may be the problem, that the sensors send different electrical signals or something). I would have to remove the timing belt covers- very bad news because this was impossible to do with the engine in the car, without damaging the timing belt covers that is. So I figured, fuck these covers, they aren't too useful if they can only be removed with the engine out and I mangled them out. I noticed that the sensor wheel on the cam was a little bent at one corner, so I figured that was probably the problem. I cut the sensors out of the harness (had to be "custom" wired to connect to the 91 harness and the plugs were cut off when I got it- I think) and took them to the side to bench test them. They bench tested fine...... How was that possible?
Then I figure as a last step I would check continuity across the cable I made. No continuity to the sensor grounds!! Apparently the solder to the connector corroded and broke loose or something like that. I couldn't really tell because I had encased it with plastic, but it needed to be replaced. I very carefully rewired everything with brand new stuff and reassembled everything. Started car just to make sure everything was ok and it fired right up. Shut it off and went to bed. It had the old NA ecu installed for that start up.
In the morning I figured I could finally run the seafoamed oil through the engine. Turned the key and no start! I went to work pissed, wondering what electrical monster could have struck this time. After some various electrical diagnostics, I found that the plug I soldered onto the harness was at fault. I had heatshrinked each wire, but the wires somehow shorted together through the heatshrink tubing. I wrapped each wire with some electrical tape and figured that would solve the problem, but still no spark. I swap in the NA ecu, still no spark. I notice the check engine light is not coming on at start up. I feared that I may have fried the ecu. I put the tt ecu back, same thing. Two fried ecus? Bad news. Then it hits me to check the fuses again because of the short and sure enough the 20A ECI fuse was blown. I love finding blown fuses- it means they did their job. Replaced that fuse and the car started right up.
Since then I think I have fixed all oil leaks. and it looks like cylinder 5 may be firing now. I put seafoam into the intake last night and did some smoking this morning, so I'll see if that helps any. I'll redo the compression check this week and hopefully I can be a seafoam success story.
Only problem now is the car will not rev past 1500. It's like it hits a brick wall there. It reved higher before, but I had a narrowband sensor going to the ecu then, I have since removed it. I may try unplugging the simulated narrowband input to the ecu to see what happens. I guess I could also install a narrowband sensor, but I don't really want to do that if it's unnecessary. The car reads really lean on the wideband, so I'll may install the eManage and try to richen things up to see if that solves the problem. This damn eManage better work. It wasn't doing anything when I attempted to connect to it with a computer and 12v battery. I want to hear my exhaust at higher rpms!
Holy crap, that's a long post! Sorry for the essay, but a lot of weird things happened.
08-06-2010, 08:58 PM
Thanks for the nice comments. I checked #5 compression just now.... 185psi! SEAFOAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Must have been a stuck ring afterall.
I unplugged the 02 to the ecu and the car revved above 1500 at first but then wouldn't once it warmed up. Still always reads super lean on the wideband. I believe it was reading rich when I had the NA ecu hooked up for that short period. I think I'm going to get the eManage on there and try to richen things up. I may also swap the NA ecu in just to see what it does.
Soon as this thing is running like it should I'll put videos up. Mabye before then, for the exhaust at least, just need to find those revs.
08-08-2010, 08:04 PM
Put the NA ecu on and it mostly reads really rich and I can rev it fine. This leads me to believe that this rev limit thing is being caused by lack of fuel. That or a bad ecu. I hooked the e-manage up and it powers up fine. I can't connect my computer to the unit though. I think my homemade cable may not work right. I'm going to see if I can't get some sort of tune using the knobs. I'm also hoping there isn't some crazy map for a civic or something stored in the unit.
edit-
With the e-manage hooked up to the TT ecu the car also runs super rich and revs fine (this is all no-load conditions, the car is still on jack-stands and the driver axle needs to be connected). I guess the ecu is ok. It idles around 1.5k now that it has enough fuel and all the cylinders are firing. I may want to tone that down a little. I need to get my computer connected to it so I can read accurate afr values and tune this right. Right now I have a narrowband gauge hooked up to the 0-1v analog output of my wideband. I'll probably give it a quick drive as-is to see how it does though. I also want to get a log while actually driving to see how it looks.
Last edited by RL7; 08-09-2010 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Tried e-manage
08-18-2010, 07:06 PM
Tuning... difficult without a dyno and when you work during the day. Unplugging the stock O2s looks like the way to go. The ECU does a very good job of targeting 14.7 and all that really does is screw with your tune. I've been driving it around the block to try to get a rough tune. My datalogger decided to stop working on the last couple "runs" for some reason. I get my wideband info from there, so I need that working. It still smokes quite a bit when I get on it because of the seafoam. The TT ecu is so far off on the fuel that it seems almost meaningless to use it. I hit "full" 6 psi boost at 2000 rpm... I will probably turn that up... soon. There seems to be some sort of delay in power and rpms when the wastegates open, so I'll have to see what that's about. I don't think I have even hit above 3500 Mivec range while driving yet. While parked, it revs up there no problem and it is a tad bit loud.... I'll get a vid of the exhaust up in the next couple days. I could get one of me running the car, but they are pretty silly right now- would just be me driving around the block, driving a bit too fast, and making way too much noise.
08-23-2010, 03:31 AM
Man, this thing is going to be something when I finally nail the tune. I hit some point around 4500 yesterday and the power sort of violently kicked in, throwing me back in my seat, and my computer into the back seat. I put one in today with a huge amount of fuel correction, around 100% across the board. It ran pretty good, but I got some knock. I want to get that sorted out. I think I'm going to "hotwire" my fuel pump to make sure it's delivering the fuel it should be. If that turns out to be ok, I'll probably get some larger injectors so I don't have to run such crazy fuel correction.
Posted a portion of a log in another thread:
Help with log, 10:1 TT knock
08-31-2010, 01:58 AM
Found only 20 psi of fuel pressure that disappears when the pump turns off. I either have a bad fuel pump o-ring, bad fuel pump, or kinked line. The kinked line is unlikely due to the disappearing pressure. I've been trying to tune this damn thing with less than half the fuel pressure I'm supposed to have. This should be the last big problem.
09-03-2010, 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RL7 View Post
Found only 20 psi of fuel pressure that disappears when the pump turns off. I either have a bad fuel pump o-ring, bad fuel pump, or kinked line.
Or I have a bad in-tank ground wire that only gets 2V to the pump. I can't believe the car ran with that little voltage getting to the pump. Very odd, but easy fix.
09-11-2010, 04:52 AM
Fixed the pump wiring, tuned in the afpr (which surprisingly works), readjusted the idle and then readjusted the tps. I finally got a pretty good run out of it. I've attached the log. Theres a tiny bit of knock in a weird spot, but there wasn't any at WOT. My TPS seems to be topping out around 85%. I'm not sure if that would mess with anything. Shifting at 6500 is not cool though. This thing needs to rev a lot higher than that. My map sensor was reading up to 65 kPa, which is about 9.5 psi. I'm just running wastegate boost, so that seems a little abnormal. I don't think it'll hurt anything though. The tune is still pretty rough, but it is on the safe side. The injector duty cycles were up over 100% for part of the run but my afr was 10.x, so it can probably stand to be leaned out a bit.
So it looks like the car is pretty much ready for the road. I'll probably log and tune as I go. May be funny to see what type of gas mileage I get. Hopefully it's at least better than my truck. I'd like to visit a dyno at some point soon. I should probably get an alignment since the car has been off the road for a couple years and it has has a new suspension and tires installed. It tracks pretty straight though. Holy crap, the brakes suck though. After driving different cars for the last few years, the brakes on the stealth really feel like a safety hazard, especially with the increased power and weight. Those will have to be upgraded very soon.
Upcoming upgrades:
0) Install the damn oil pressure gauge
1) Brakes
2) Injectors
3) Shift point and rev limit needs to be closer to 8k!
I'll get some media stuff up pretty soon, videos are just more difficult than pics especially when there's a bunch of gauges and stuff I have to watch.
09-13-2010, 06:29 PM
I drove the car to work today and it drove well. I had to get off the highway because I forgot to completely secure my hood blisters and they were thinking about flying off. The fuel pump is pretty loud. It makes me think I have a feedback loop in the stereo. I have a second amp and subwoofer that I haven't installed. I may throw those in to counteract the fuel pump. My trunk and cargo cover are not installed right now, so that probably isn't helping things.
Still am getting that same knock though. Always at right about 2000 rpm under light throttle. It's not much (<5 counts). I would be inclined to think it was just phantom knock with the exhaust rattling around or something like that, but the AFR is usually 13.xx when it happens and drops to 12.xx as soon as there is any knock. This leads me to believe it may be some sort of misfire (unburnt fuel lowering the AFR).
I'm going to try jacking the fuel up at that spot and if that doesn't work I will try leaning it out to see what happens.
I really need to recharge my a/c. The stealth can get hotter than any car I have been in. When it's consistently 90+ out, I'm pretty happy I have cloth seats. I've got a dozen cans of r-12 and a vacuum. I just need an R-12 manifold.
Oh, I should also probably install my windshield wipers, not having those is probably a bit of a safety hazard.
Ok, that was time consuming. I'll post some sort of update soon.
mh3kgt
12-08-2010, 07:23 PM
Awesome
Dude, I'm really impressed...took one helleva PITA and ran with it...hood looks fantastic
CoopKill
12-08-2010, 08:39 PM
Nice to see you made it! Thanks for migrating all the info over.
SpdDmnVR4
12-08-2010, 09:49 PM
i read every page on this site and a couple from the other. i want to see a video... it will take you 10 minutes.
i am curious as to your overall opinion about swapping to those heads... would you do it again? what would you do different? you say they look like they will bolt up to a 6g72 block... what all would you need to do from at point?
it all looked fairly easy to me, a lot easier than i thought it would be. im really impressed, it must have been very stressful thinking about it all the time. i know it is stressful to me when i have something weird wrong with my car and i have to rack my brain to come up with the solution
green-lantern
12-08-2010, 09:55 PM
I remember this, thanks for moving it over.
QUOTE:
i am curious as to your overall opinion about swapping to those heads... would you do it again? what would you do different? you say they look like they will bolt up to a 6g72 block... what all would you need to do from at point?
QUOTE/
far too much effort for too little gain...the latest hot thing is the Eclipse heads (6g75)
SpdDmnVR4
12-09-2010, 12:49 AM
Are 72 Mivec heads and 75 Mivec heads that different in flow characteristics? I don't wanna swap over the entire engine, I agree too much work, but bolting on a set of heads sounds tempting
The 75's are ment to be amazing...Ray Pampena has said great thuings about them...but no, they are not a direct bolt on...welding involved.
Unknownvr4
12-09-2010, 02:55 AM
subscribed.
i read every page on this site and a couple from the other. i want to see a video... it will take you 10 minutes.
i am curious as to your overall opinion about swapping to those heads... would you do it again? what would you do different? you say they look like they will bolt up to a 6g72 block... what all would you need to do from at point?
it all looked fairly easy to me, a lot easier than i thought it would be. im really impressed, it must have been very stressful thinking about it all the time. i know it is stressful to me when i have something weird wrong with my car and i have to rack my brain to come up with the solution
When this bottom end goes, I'm going to put these heads on a 6g74 block with a 75 crank if possible. Should make a good amount of power. I'm fairly certain steve68 on this site has removed these heads and confirmed that they do work on a 3s 6g72 block (this engine is also a 6g72).
I probably could have done some things more intelligently, but If I could go back, I don't think I would have done much different- except I would have put that stupid plate in the first time around and I wouldn't have screwed around with the hood for so long. That being said, using a good cross-over 3s-style block would make this many times easier.
Working on cars doesn't stress me at all. It's relaxing for me. Any problem I run into, I just view as a challenge to overcome. I have multiple vehicles though. If I had just one and it was down, that could be pretty stressful.
No one really knows how these heads compare to 75 heads. Huge power was made with those, but that doesn't automatically make these inferior. These heads should bolt up with less effort than the 75s, but I can't personally vouch for that yet.
The 30m heads are FAR easier to fit...you need to fill and move some of the water/oil holes in the 75 heads to fit the 74 block..only 2-3 people that I know about have gone to anything like this amount of effort without going with a 75 block to begin with.
CoreyB
12-09-2010, 03:58 PM
Awesome write up. Hood came out great too.
Markingtime
12-11-2010, 03:27 AM
Time for some current pictures. PLEASE!
J_Parker
12-11-2010, 04:00 AM
In for current pics and numbers!!! Very good write up, and such dedication, keep up the good work :D
I felt that something was a little off with the engine. From a stop, I would floor it and the tires wouldn't spin. It felt good up top, but this seemed odd, so I decided to explore. Turns out my front bank mivec solenoid was jammed up causing it to stay on the high cam all the time AND my RPM switch was wired funny and wasn't doing anything. This resulted in my front bank running the high cam 100% of the time and my rear bank running the low cam 100% of the time. Not an ideal situation.
I ran some assembly lube (royal purple gear oil for me), engine cleaner, and various degreasers through the solonoid to try to free it, but ultimately pb blaster worked best. Re-installed and re-wired CORRECTLY. The car is a different animal now. Lights up the front tires (246/16 bridgestone potenza) if I get on it and will chirp 2nd and possibly 3rd (ATX!). I leaned out the map a lot and am logging for knock and all looks good so far. I should have a lot more power and better fuel economy now.
Only problems now are my speedo gear seems to have crapped out (cel 24 and speedo doesn't work at low speeds), and the water pump makes some squeaking noise when the car is cold. Liking this car a bunch more now, I'll have to give it a shiny new coat soon. Starts a lot easier with the correct low cams at idle.
BaadVR4
01-09-2011, 04:50 PM
IIRC, Italo Grasso (from 3SI) mated a set of MIVEC heads to a 2nd gen 3S 6G72 turbo block. I would REALLY be interested in that combination. Does anyone know anything about putting the MIVEC heads on the 3S?
He used 6g75 heads. These are different. Mabye better, mabye not. These do have mivec on the intake and exhaust cams while the 6g75 have a 3-stage(?) mivec on the intake cam. These heads should mate to a 3s or 74 block with less hassle than the 75 heads.
Rocket
01-10-2011, 04:48 PM
Awesome build! The u-pick yards are frikkin awesome. I wish I had one closer than 1.5hrs away. Can't wait to see a vid of it when you have time.
I have to pull my heads due to some bent valves. I would love to put a set of these heads in place instead. Maybe next spring I'll swap them around :)
Markingtime
01-26-2011, 02:26 AM
Resubscribed.
bluzvr4
01-26-2011, 05:33 PM
mark u need to add to ur sig. theres nor replacement for displacement besides turbo inplacement
Markingtime
08-09-2011, 04:37 PM
mark u need to add to ur sig. theres nor replacement for displacement besides turbo inplacement
Turbos are always assumed.:D
bluzvr4
08-09-2011, 05:03 PM
i love hearing v8 guys say all that matters is displacement while im standing next to my 4 cylinder (talon) or 6 cylinder (vr4)
Probably 4 or 5k on the new engine. Still running smooth and strong. Recharged the a/c and it's ice cold. No track or dyno still. Fresh damage to the car from a falling palm frond and a botched break-in attempt (by me). That may expedite the completion of the exterior.
how did you do all the wiring for the mivec to work? was it just another input into the standalone?
and also i was thinking.. would this swap be easier if you used a dry sump for oil pan clearance and electric power steering and electric water pump?
that way you would only have to worry about a mounting bracket for the alternator. i am looking into doing something similar but just seeing if its even going to be worth it.
J-Groove
06-28-2013, 09:01 AM
This is an amazing thread! How has it been so idle for so long.
-John
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.