E-Manage Ultimate

[B-Man]

Anybody able to get a good tune running maf-less, yet?

[Atrosity]

Bboyalan in San Diego will be tuning EMU shortly on one of the cars. He thinks EMU is more like running maf less then speed density.

[B-Man]

Well, it really is maf-less since there's no speed density calculations actually being done.

[KeithMac]

The trick is in the air temp corrections, I`ve had a play but found a ported MAS with the Mellon Bypass mod to be a lot more consitent. May try gain someday but the gains weren`t noticable on my TD04-16g`s..

[B-Man]

The trick is in the air temp corrections, I`ve had a play but found a ported MAS with the Mellon Bypass mod to be a lot more consitent. May try gain someday but the gains weren`t noticable on my TD04-16g`s..

MAFless


Bboyalan in San Diego will be tuning EMU shortly on one of the cars. He thinks EMU is more like running maf less then speed density.

Done this yet?

[KeithMac]

Yes I have run MAFless.

[KeithMac]

Would like to know how you differenciate between a Mas Air Sensor and a Mas Air Flow (sensor)?.

[B-Man]

Last I knew, there was none. It's just nomenclature.

[bboyalan]

Done this yet?
Not yet, but soon! The plan is to set up a 13T/360cc MAFless tune tomorrow with a local member on here. I already have my EMU w/ S2.5 wired into an AEM patch/extension harness for PNP.

In regards to the IAT, I liked how Trevor managed to work around it with simplicity. I already began my variation lol:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/AzNFLiPBoiPiNoY/3kGT/Eric_92VR4/b7eceb3e.jpg

I suppose that I could technically use Eric's car with the new 19T build, but it would seem so odd replacing the GM MAF with a coupler hahaha.

[B-Man]

Keep me updated. FYI I've had better luck (not great luck) with tuning both rpm vs. boost and rpm vs throttle. Tuning IAT is a must, not really the point of the thread. I haven't played with coolant temps yet. I've just been sure to always tune with coolant temps at 190-200. I had to pull out some timing at about -2psi to 0psi @ 1500-2000rpm to keep away knock even with 13.0afr. Hopefully that'll help you out a bit. Also, if you wouldn't mind sharing your airflow hz table from the 13T car, I'd appreciate it. I'm running 13Ts with Grayson's airflow maps. I'd like to compare.

To be clear, is Eric's car GM MAF or MAFless? I've been debating for awhile now to go back to a GM MAF and preparing for a Montero ECU.

[blindmist]

Also, if you wouldn't mind sharing your airflow hz table from the 13T car, I'd appreciate it. I'm running 13Ts with Grayson's airflow maps. I'd like to compare.


Concur. I would love to get to speed density on my 360's first before switching to my RC 550's.

[bboyalan]

Keep me updated. FYI I've had better luck (not great luck) with tuning both rpm vs. boost and rpm vs throttle. Tuning IAT is a must, not really the point of the thread. I haven't played with coolant temps yet. I've just been sure to always tune with coolant temps at 190-200. I had to pull out some timing at about -2psi to 0psi @ 1500-2000rpm to keep away knock even with 13.0afr. Hopefully that'll help you out a bit. Also, if you wouldn't mind sharing your airflow hz table from the 13T car, I'd appreciate it. I'm running 13Ts with Grayson's airflow maps. I'd like to compare.

To be clear, is Eric's car GM MAF or MAFless? I've been debating for awhile now to go back to a GM MAF and preparing for a Montero ECU.
Thanks for the heads up, and definitely! I agree wholeheartedly that the two mentioned attacks for tuning are much, much easier which is why/how I have worked my way towards trying this. As I have told a few people, I see these efforts as trying to work with the ECU as opposed to against it. IIRC, you are using "Stage 3" wiring, correct? Are you accounting for your larger injectors in the airflow table or by negatively modifying the injector pulse? I believe Grayon's method was feeding factory-like airflow numbers to keep stock-ish timing maps on S3 tuning [correct me if I am wrong].

Sadly, we [James "jbuhrman" and I] were rained out today, so I will have to postpone it. Eric's car is currently on the MAF-T/EMB setup, but I have been successful at using my EMU in the EMB's place with his previous "RPM vs Throttle" tune transferred over. It will transition over to "RPM vs Boost" with his new 19T build. The flashable ECU is great, but I wish we had more tables unlocked like the damn Lancers have access to; have not been keeping track on progress there.


Concur. I would love to get to speed density on my 360's first before switching to my RC 550's.
lol! We have the same mindset :D

[B-Man]

Yeah, I've been running stage 3. I've been having problems with variability. When in the same cells (both rpm vs boost, rpm vs throttle, IAT and coolant) I get different AFRs. Significantly different. I'm starting to think it may have to do with the Tip-in (accel maps). I haven't done a good day of tuning in awhile. Maybe now that I'm done with school I'll have some time.

And yes. Grayson uses stock 360cc Airflow maps to keep stock-like timing and takes out the fuel using the I/J tables.

[bboyalan]

I'm starting to think it may have to do with the Tip-in (accel maps).
That is exactly what I was going to ask about in my prior post, but I figured you were sticking to what existed in the map already.

[B-Man]

The accel maps have been really tricky so far for me. A few others have just increased the duration and seemed to be fine with Grayson's map.

[blindmist]

And yes. Grayson uses stock 360cc Airflow maps to keep stock-like timing and takes out the fuel using the I/J tables.

I have stage 2.5.

Now that you mention Grayson giving stock hz to the ecu, and pulling fuel on ij tables, this would make sense why I run rich as a mother the last time i tried to run speed density. I cannot pull fuel on s2.5 only add. But even then, I could never get rid of the absurd rich throttle tip-in conditions.

I think I am just a retard. I will be calling Grayson hopefully within the next month or two and take my car to DFW and get the bitch tuned. Now that I have money from Christmas, i can get a wbo2. (I know. I know. You don't have to tell me I should already have one.)

[B-Man]

Any progress Alan?

[bboyalan]

Any progress Alan?
Oooh I was totally oblivious sorry! A member named Elliot "KrnAznEP" is driving down right now with his '93 VR-4 on 19T's + full supporting modifications to run 1000cc's. Currently, it is tuned [by me] @11-12psi on 400cc's [360's w/ bumped FP] via EMB. We are going to pressure test first thing and then I will touch up that tune. Afterward, I am going to sample it and set him up on MAF-less EMU S2.5 for some baseline data as well as getting a good feel for it. Once his patch harness arrives for his own S3 EMU, the 1000's are going in and things will become interesting on E85 haha!

Assuming every goes smoothly and according to plan, I should have something to report back this evening :)

//edit 1-15//
The good news is that we were able to smoothly back down to 360's @3bar, but it still had to be dialed-in [otherwise very rich] on Elliot's sweet fuel setup; dual hot-wired Walbro FP's, dual feed/return fuel lines, etc. As expected, 12psi even at 12AFR w/ zero detonation maxed everything out, so we settled for 10psi on the Hallman bleeder-type MBC.

Two unforeseen delays were the GReddy 3bar MAP sensor reading inaccurately for the first half of the session AND the EMU somehow skewing the water/coolant temperatures reported to the ECU. Because of this, we were stuck in open-loop lol until we bypassed the patch harness. Fortunately, I was able to sample the majority of data, but I did not realize everything was raw/input values... bah! We will be continuing next week.

For those curious:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/AzNFLiPBoiPiNoY/3kGT/Elliot_93VR4/40c065a4.jpg

[KeithMac]

Go through the patch harness pin by pin and double check it, I hardwired my EMU into the car and the coolant temp was spot on within the EMU datalogger and the stock ECU datalogger.

What did you trace the Pressure sensor problem to?.

[B-Man]

Can one of you guys running MAFless do me a favor. I need you to unplug the pressure sensor and see if your injectors fire. My car's at a friends and I'm trying to debug it.

[bboyalan]

Damn! This thread is getting old lol. I was sitting here confused, and then I realized it was different from the more lively one here: Emanage Ultimate tuning and maps thread (http://www.3sgto.org/f13/emanage-ultimate-tuning-maps-thread-4756.html) <<

Logically speaking, if you unplug it, would you not be at 1bar of vacuum? The lowest row would be the only one used. It may or may not be too lean though.

[B-Man]

Or, does it run a diagnostic and see that it's missing and just do nothing (ie not fire injectors).

I'd rather someone try it instead of just trying to figure out what it SHOULD do. I looked over the shitty manuals and ofcourse it says nothing about troubleshooting.

[bboyalan]

IMO, I doubt that it will figure it out to that extent. I have seen error messages pop up for unplugged MAF sensors before. If nobody else chimes in, I can try unplugging it later after I finish the rest of my MAFless tune. I would have had an answer for you by now lol.

-sent from my G2

//edit// Also, both of the cars with MAFless tunes that I did are currently down for work [haha!] I will probably implement mine sooner than I think after seeing the saturated KV signal spike.

[B-Man]

Car magically started running again. Makes me a little worried.