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View Full Version : how many are would participate in an ATX-only 3/s ROTM?



IPD
12-01-2010, 05:34 PM
please post up if you or someone you know would enter their 3/s for an ATX only ROTM competition. i'd like to gauge how much competition we have out there, and if it's worth making a dedicated month for this. thanks!

1. inperfectdarkness

bslade
12-01-2010, 07:05 PM
please post up if you or someone you know would enter their 3/s for an ATX only ROTM competition. i'd like to gauge how much competition we have out there, and if it's worth making a dedicated month for this. thanks!

1. inperfectdarkness
2. bslade

green-lantern
12-01-2010, 07:17 PM
Shift em yourself ladies! Autos suck! :p :Bwahaha:

IPD
12-01-2010, 07:28 PM
Shift em yourself ladies! Autos suck! :p :Bwahaha:

remind me never to vote for you as ROTM, traitorous swine.

JohnnyTurbo
12-01-2010, 09:16 PM
please post up if you or someone you know would enter their 3/s for an ATX only ROTM competition. i'd like to gauge how much competition we have out there, and if it's worth making a dedicated month for this. thanks!



1. inperfectdarkness
2. bslade
3. buckeye stealth '92 Stealth R/T ATX 100% original

green-lantern
12-01-2010, 09:24 PM
:lo5l: You know I kid! ;)

sort of......:D


I think it's a good idea to have different COTM categories. Even if it's just one time. I don't want to see the same type car winning every month.

Granny
12-02-2010, 10:08 AM
Depending on how bad I get my ass kicked this month I would probably enter but most of the ATX's are still FWD.
I don't know of any other ATX AWD besides yours.
Maybe replace one of the FWD months with ATX but for the most part it will still be the same cars.

Granny
12-02-2010, 01:16 PM
I guess you just like to argue more then me. LOL
I've found the best way to get people to come on board is let them see how much you enjoy it

IPD
12-02-2010, 03:19 PM
that's why i didn't suggest an AWD ATX month. there are a LOT of very nice FWD cars out there which are MTX though, and they will likely carry each and every FWD month. the f4a33/w4a33 is a venerable mitsubishi component, and i think a dedicated month would be fitting homage. heck, i would probably be content with a "f4a33/w4a33 only" month--to include cars other than 3/s's.

TT4ME
12-02-2010, 06:26 PM
Soooo, if you can't beat them, make limitations so they can't compete?

Maybe I'm reading into this wrong?

I think if you build a car worthy of ROTM, the tranny makes absolutely no difference.

Granny
12-02-2010, 06:47 PM
Soooo, if you can't beat them, make limitations so they can't compete?

Maybe I'm reading into this wrong?

I think if you build a car worthy of ROTM, the tranny makes absolutely no difference.

I have to agree.

I have more money in my tranny and controller alone then a lot of people have in their entire car.
That alone dosen't make it ROTH material but a properly built performance ATX should earn respect.

IPD
12-02-2010, 07:18 PM
Soooo, if you can't beat them, make limitations so they can't compete?

Maybe I'm reading into this wrong?

I think if you build a car worthy of ROTM, the tranny makes absolutely no difference.


I have to agree.

I have more money in my tranny and controller alone then a lot of people have in their entire car.
That alone dosen't make it ROTH material but a properly built performance ATX should earn respect.

you're assuming a lack of bias in the 3/s community. as we well know from the old website, over 90% of the time, awd > fwd and tt > n/a. that's precisely the reason we now have a fwd only month. the bias is even more stark when it comes to transmissions; and inexplicably so. the DSM community doesn't treat this segment as a red-headed step-child; nor does most of domestic community. it's a rather unique feature of the 3/s (and a few select other) communities. even the supra community accepts it for what it is--yes, and what it isn't.

it would be nice to get some better visibility to samples of well-maintained ATX 3/s's....before every last one of them is converted into MTX. if it will make you feel better, i won't even bother entering my car in this particular month's competition. i'm happy just to have it up and get some recognition. $10 says that the only real difference we'll see is going from 12 months of MTX cars to 11. i don't feel that's really an issue.

besides...it's one more month for spyder SL owners to shine. :)

Granny
12-02-2010, 07:51 PM
Maybe I am assuming a lot but this is not the old website.
I don't agree that the ATX cars will be discrimated against for FWD ROTH.
I know what my car will do and I've never felt the need to debate it.
It's the path I have chosen with no regrets....How about you?

IPD
12-02-2010, 07:59 PM
i've never felt the need to mull over my choice. i have however been given to fits of proselytizing it's virtues. :)

sixsixfour
12-02-2010, 09:44 PM
3. buckeye stealth '92 Stealth R/T ATX 100% original
That was my first car! Black 92 R/T ATX :love: It's a shame she was monster trucked...

TT4ME
12-02-2010, 10:15 PM
I would go so far as to believe that a ATX AWD TT vs a MTX AWD TT.. each with $50k into them.. flawless cars.. the ATX would win. It's weird/odd/rare.

FWD cars I see as a handicap. ATX I do not.

The fact that there is at least 10x more manual cars hurts your odds more than anything. More cars means that there will be more exceptional examples.

green-lantern
12-02-2010, 10:28 PM
It's a shame she was monster trucked...

Really? lol

sixsixfour
12-02-2010, 10:32 PM
Yes! I really loved that car..
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2473/1561/6180780036_large.jpg

Granny
12-02-2010, 10:39 PM
That's just not right. :(

IPD
12-03-2010, 10:24 AM
Yes! I really loved that car..
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2473/1561/6180780036_large.jpg

why? for the love of god, WHY?

:le cry:

RL7
12-03-2010, 12:44 PM
I suppose I could enter if I got off my ass and painted the back half of my car by then. But, I agree that having an ATX is not necessarily going to be a handicap in a competition like ROTM- especially ATX/AWD, that's very unique. The perceived bias is probably due to the fact that 99% of the ATX cars are also FWD and put 150hp to the wheels. That's just a trifecta of awful when comparing to even a stock VR4. Most of the other platforms you mention have a more powerful ATX version from the factory. If Mitsubishi had made an ATX VR4, you would undoubtedly see more ATX cars being awarded ROTM.

bslade
12-03-2010, 06:04 PM
I suppose I could enter if I got off my ass and painted the back half of my car by then. But, I agree that having an ATX is not necessarily going to be a handicap in a competition like ROTM- especially ATX/AWD, that's very unique. The perceived bias is probably due to the fact that 99% of the ATX cars are also FWD and put 150hp to the wheels. That's just a trifecta of awful when comparing to even a stock VR4. Most of the other platforms you mention have a more powerful ATX version from the factory. If Mitsubishi had made an ATX VR4, you would undoubtedly see more ATX cars being awarded ROTM.

My ATX was just Dyno'd at 410HP at the engine..... and it's FWD... and it rocks most of my TT friends....

TT4ME
12-03-2010, 08:50 PM
My ATX was just Dyno'd at 410HP at the engine..... and it's FWD... and it rocks most of my TT friends....

After you get traction at 65mph?

IPD
12-04-2010, 09:40 AM
I suppose I could enter if I got off my ass and painted the back half of my car by then. But, I agree that having an ATX is not necessarily going to be a handicap in a competition like ROTM- especially ATX/AWD, that's very unique. The perceived bias is probably due to the fact that 99% of the ATX cars are also FWD and put 150hp to the wheels. That's just a trifecta of awful when comparing to even a stock VR4. Most of the other platforms you mention have a more powerful ATX version from the factory. If Mitsubishi had made an ATX VR4, you would undoubtedly see more ATX cars being awarded ROTM.

we already tried that social experiment. the awd atx entered set a new record for fewest number of votes. just saying.

JohnnyTurbo
12-04-2010, 10:32 AM
I'm with IPD on this one. Anyone who thinks that an ATX car has a chance against a stick shift anything is in a state of denial. People here will be just like any other forum and vote for a friend, a blue car, a same state car, a same city car, just because it is a stealth car, or any other reason other than judging the cars on their own merits. ATX cars only have a shot of winning against other ATX cars.

onebadmollafolla
12-05-2010, 04:05 PM
I lol'd hard when I saw this. Like the Special Olympics 3SGTO style.

IPD
12-06-2010, 10:58 AM
I lol'd hard when I saw this. Like the Special Olympics 3SGTO style.

yes. but with the caveat that the ATX is like a double-below-the-knee amputee who can now run faster than a normal person; thanks to prosthetics. so of course, nobody wants to vote for one. :)

Scorch
12-07-2010, 01:22 AM
I'd be in it although I'm a little ashamed that my car is ATX. It's the only thing I didn't like about it when I bought it, but what can ya do?

IPD
12-07-2010, 07:57 AM
I'd be in it although I'm a little ashamed that my car is ATX. It's the only thing I didn't like about it when I bought it, but what can ya do?

then you shouldn't run. no offense, but those who have an ATX should have pride in what they have. those who don't are 3-parts short of an MTX conversion, and shouldn't bother to apply. it's salt in an open wound if someone would win the "ATX ROTM" and then convert to MTX.

saving up for a VR4 is the best possible thing you could do right now.

Emilie@GZP
12-07-2010, 09:52 AM
then you shouldn't run. no offense, but those who have an ATX should have pride in what they have. those who don't are 3-parts short of an MTX conversion, and shouldn't bother to apply. it's salt in an open wound if someone would win the "ATX ROTM" and then convert to MTX.

saving up for a VR4 is the best possible thing you could do right now.


I'm going to enter my Spyder, then the week after, convert it to manual, just out of spite for you.... but only after I intentionally annihilate the trans into a MILLION pieces on video, then youtube it for the world to see :p

IPD
12-07-2010, 12:33 PM
I'm going to enter my Spyder, then the week after, convert it to manual, just out of spite for you.... but only after I intentionally annihilate the trans into a MILLION pieces on video, then youtube it for the world to see :p

fair enough. just don't complain that the cost of a used 6-speed is 5x the cost of a used w4a33. ;)

Emilie@GZP
12-07-2010, 12:41 PM
fair enough. just don't complain that the cost of a used 6-speed is 5x the cost of a used w4a33. ;)

I have stock piles of both. Makes no difference to me ;)

onebadmollafolla
12-07-2010, 12:58 PM
I'm going to enter my Spyder, then the week after, convert it to manual, just out of spite for you.... but only after I intentionally annihilate the trans into a MILLION pieces on video, then youtube it for the world to see :p

So your going to give it 3/4 throttle?

bslade
12-07-2010, 01:29 PM
My ATX is fine. I'm constantly hearing the AWD TT guys complain about leaking transfer cases and broken drive shafts. Had one guy light them up in front of about 200 people at a car show, only to have his drive shaft get sheared off like a laser cut it. Man was he embarassed......

Scorch
12-07-2010, 09:07 PM
then you shouldn't run. no offense, but those who have an ATX should have pride in what they have. those who don't are 3-parts short of an MTX conversion, and shouldn't bother to apply. it's salt in an open wound if someone would win the "ATX ROTM" and then convert to MTX.

saving up for a VR4 is the best possible thing you could do right now.

Oh I'm not complaining about it and I'd never think about converting my stock all original '92 SL into a 5spd. I'm a college student and I live in a fairly urban area, works out pretty well to have an auto. But with a car like this, I think most people, including me, would prefer a stick just for the added enjoyment is what I meant. I guess hanging out around the forums with an ATX I feel like we're not taken as perhaps.

The last thing I want is for someone to think I'm not proud of my car and don't love the hell out of it. Absolutely untrue.

Long term plan is to get a VR4 when I graduate and get a job and some more money, and have my current car for a DD and the VR4 for modding and only using in great weather.

CoopKill
12-07-2010, 09:45 PM
Inperfect, why do you not have any pics in the garage or profile?

Your proud of your baby and not promoting the work and love you have into it? Why not?

TT4ME
12-07-2010, 09:55 PM
Inperfect, why do you not have any pics in the garage or profile?

Your proud of your baby and not promoting the work and love you have into it? Why not?

The few pics I've seen have been of a nasty engine bay. He replies with the DD excuse. :D

pezcore
12-07-2010, 11:47 PM
I are wouldn't... mostly because I are don't drive an ATX but if I are did then I are would enter it in a RoTM contest. That's is are was did for sure!

IPD
12-08-2010, 03:28 AM
Inperfect, why do you not have any pics in the garage or profile?

Your proud of your baby and not promoting the work and love you have into it? Why not?

i've been way to farking lazy to post pics of it on here after i moved. but if it makes you feel better, i'll link some from my gallery on the old site--just to tide you over. i probably won't be taking any new pics or putting any up here until i get something worthwhile done to it.

http://www.3si.org/gallery/data/586/medium/PICT0710.JPG
http://www.3si.org/gallery/data/586/medium/PICT0719.JPG
http://www.3si.org/gallery/data/586/medium/PICT0738.JPG
http://www.3si.org/gallery/data/586/medium/PICT0728.JPG

yes, i assure you that all four backup lights work. :p


The few pics I've seen have been of a nasty engine bay. He replies with the DD excuse. :D

it's actually much better than it used to be. i need to buy linchpinjoe a plane ticket down here & let him have at it with an orbital buffer & several gallons of polish. ;) it actually cleans up fairly well though; it just needs the inner fenders wax-stripped & painted:

http://www.3si.org/gallery/data/586/medium/PICT0744.JPG

i've since added some chrome caps to it & i have a chrome y-pipe in the mail. i've also added some coilovers since this pic was taken.


I are wouldn't... mostly because I are don't drive an ATX but if I are did then I are would enter it in a RoTM contest. That's is are was did for sure!

drunk post ftw?

IPD
12-08-2010, 05:57 AM
he was making fun of you.

ah. so we're perpetuating more hate now, are we?

well fine. i'll be the lightning rod; i really don't give a crap. if i have to end up with everyone on this forum mad at me so that someone else can get an ATX as ROTM...then it's worth it to me.









...goddamn the baseless bigotry on here.

IPD
12-08-2010, 05:57 AM
he was making fun of you.

ah. so we're perpetuating more hate now, are we?

well fine. i'll be the lightning rod; i really don't give a crap. if i have to end up with everyone on this forum mad at me so that someone else can get an ATX as ROTM...then it's worth it to me.









...goddamn the baseless bigotry on here.

Emilie@GZP
12-08-2010, 12:33 PM
i are wouldn't... Mostly because i are don't drive an atx but if i are did then i are would enter it in a rotm contest. That's is are was did for sure!

head asplode!!!

Emilie@GZP
12-08-2010, 12:34 PM
drunk post ftw?

he was making fun of you.

TT4ME
12-08-2010, 01:19 PM
Have you run for rotm ever?

bslade
12-08-2010, 01:23 PM
ah. so we're perpetuating more hate now, are we?
well fine. i'll be the lightning rod; i really don't give a crap. if i have to end up with everyone on this forum mad at me so that someone else can get an ATX as ROTM...then it's worth it to me.

...goddamn the baseless bigotry on here.

I could do as good a job on your engine bay as Linchpinjoe. I hear there are a lot of nice golf courses in Georgia :) Looonnnggggg way to travel from Canada though!

Get someone to put the brakes on Maximal so Granny or me (the ATX's) can get the COTM :)

IPD
12-08-2010, 01:54 PM
Have you run for rotm ever?

http://www.3si.org/forum/f109/vote-may-2010-rotm-493945/

note the stellar number of votes i received.

Emilie@GZP
12-08-2010, 02:08 PM
http://www.3si.org/forum/f109/vote-may-2010-rotm-493945/

note the stellar number of votes i received.

I can tell you now, that the voting had nothing to do with your car being automatic :)

Emilie@GZP
12-08-2010, 02:13 PM
ah. so we're perpetuating more hate now, are we?

well fine. i'll be the lightning rod; i really don't give a crap. if i have to end up with everyone on this forum mad at me so that someone else can get an ATX as ROTM...then it's worth it to me.









...goddamn the baseless bigotry on here.


he was making fun of the title of your thread... it has nothing to do with the automatic in your car. No one cares enough about the automatic to hate on it. You're the only one that seems to think it's such a big deal.


how many are would participate in an ATX-only 3/s ROTM?

IPD
12-08-2010, 02:14 PM
to be sure it wasn't ALL that. my divisiveness also had a great deal to do with it.

Emilie@GZP
12-08-2010, 02:19 PM
your post makes no sense, but ok :)

Chris@Rvengeperformance
12-08-2010, 02:23 PM
I don't get what the big deal is? A car should win on its own merit, if you have to handicap the competition so much to win, then it isn't winning. No one is going to vote against your car specifically because it has an automatic transmission in it.

IPD
12-08-2010, 02:29 PM
he was making fun of the title of your thread... it has nothing to do with the automatic in your car. No one cares enough about the automatic to hate on it. You're the only one that seems to think it's such a big deal.

why do you post in here, emilie? are you bored? does it give you pleasure to dog me at every turn? do you have a personal beef with me?

i've been around this platform since '03. if it wasn't for people like maTT, jomojojr, sl-guy, and others--this place would be littered with "lol, ur car sux" threads aplenty. it wasn't until chris got t4 to set a world record with the w4a33 that people actually started to pay attention.

it's one month. there doesn't even have to be a "next time". is this giving you heartburn?

Emilie@GZP
12-08-2010, 02:30 PM
I don't get what the big deal is? A car should win on its own merit, if you have to handicap the competition so much to win, then it isn't winning. No one is going to vote against your car specifically because it has an automatic transmission in it.

^ this. I find the ATX-only month to be quite stupid, in all honesty. Can we then have the best 99 conversion month? along with the best robo-headlight month, and maybe a charcoal leather interior month... seeing as you know, the tan leather doesn't wear as well as the charcoal leather interior... therefore giving the charcoal interior cars, an unfair advantage :rolleyes:

If you car is built to a high standard, being automatic will have no bearing what-so-ever on the outcome. Jan's Spyder is automatic, it hasn't stopped her from winning nearly every show she enters. If you put Nelsons ATX car against any generic manual car in a show, nelsons is going to win, hands down... because of the workmanship.

But that's just my $0.02.

IPD
12-08-2010, 02:32 PM
I don't get what the big deal is? A car should win on its own merit, if you have to handicap the competition so much to win, then it isn't winning. No one is going to vote against your car specifically because it has an automatic transmission in it.

but that's the problem. read my previous posts. awd>fwd. tt>n/a. that's the unwritten rule of ROTM. that's not judging a car by it's merit; it's judging it by a rubric that's unrelated to merit.

Emilie@GZP
12-08-2010, 02:34 PM
why do you post in here, emilie? are you bored? does it give you pleasure to dog me at every turn? do you have a personal beef with me?

i've been around this platform since '03. if it wasn't for people like maTT, jomojojr, sl-guy, and others--this place would be littered with "lol, ur car sux" threads aplenty. it wasn't until chris got t4 to set a world record with the w4a33 that people actually started to pay attention.

it's one month. there doesn't even have to be a "next time". is this giving you heartburn?

I wasn't aware that I'm not allowed to post in here? I'm sorry I did not ask your permission first. You asked for opinions, I gave mine. Sorry you feel differently.

If I never converted my beige SL to ATX AWD TT all those years ago, T4 probably never would have been built :) They contacted me about how to do the conversion.

Next, you will be asking for an ATX AWD month if yours doesn't win the ATX COTM.

Chris@Rvengeperformance
12-08-2010, 02:36 PM
but that's the problem. read my previous posts. awd>fwd. tt>n/a. that's the unwritten rule of ROTM. that's not judging a car by it's merit; it's judging it by a rubric that's unrelated to merit.

I'm not sure how you feel that the drivetrain orientation and aspiration of the engine are not MERITS of the car. They are. At the same time they are not the only thing considered.

If a NA FWD car pops up that is clean as hell and tastefully modded it is going to dominate a competition against a AWD TURBO car that is beat to shit.

Emilie@GZP
12-08-2010, 02:40 PM
but that's the problem. read my previous posts. awd>fwd. tt>n/a. that's the unwritten rule of ROTM. that's not judging a car by it's merit; it's judging it by a rubric that's unrelated to merit.

it's not an unwritten rule, it's just what people tend to gravitate towards because that is the epitome of a sports car. And most people have a tendency to vote for their friends as well... it's just the way it works.

Besides, isn't that blue stealth automatic this month, and granny's too? How do you account for their voting numbers?

Chris@Rvengeperformance
12-08-2010, 02:54 PM
I voted for Maximal this month because his paint is really clean. I've seen the car in real life and it has a flawless body that I could only hope for. It also has some really good photographs.

Honestly the first thing that catches my eye isn't what trim level or transmission it is, but how clean the thing is.

Maximal
12-08-2010, 03:07 PM
Not to get into the middle of this but ECG 02 or something like that when it was still a huge gathering an ATX SOHC won best of show. Granted, no one knew it was an ATX SOHC but it still took home the top prize.

RL7
12-08-2010, 03:38 PM
Which atx-awd car was entered as ROTM and recieved the lowest number of votes? Was it close to perfect or did it have issues? The category for September is ATX, in case it was missed. A bunch of posts popped up before mine, so I edited it to make some sort of sense.

TT4ME
12-08-2010, 05:40 PM
I think your attitude hurt your ROTM chances a lot more than your ATX. Besides that, your car looked pretty damn rough on that page. It appears to have changed quite a bit based on the pics in this thread.

IPD
12-08-2010, 07:34 PM
I think your attitude hurt your ROTM chances a lot more than your ATX. Besides that, your car looked pretty damn rough on that page. It appears to have changed quite a bit based on the pics in this thread.

my entry was multiple things:

it was first and foremost, the rantings of a pessimistic perfectionist to whom it is hundred-fold easier to find flaws than beauty. i find it impossibly hard to minimize flaws, because doing so also minimizes the importance of fixing them.

second, it was a ode to my car. after putting ~100k on it in 6 (at the time) years of daily driving, i've come to know it inside and out. listing the features of my car in such a fashion is a trip down memory lane. we've been through a lot together, and its character (and mine) have developed because of it. i know that mine will never have the "SEMA" quality of someone who spent $60,000+ removing every bolt & screw from the car during an 18-month long "frame-off" restoration. it's my DD. it's a self-depreciating habit; and it fully embodies the core of my being.

third, i'm different--and i like it that way. i wouldn't drive a 3/s otherwise. my entry was intentionally designed to have that individual flavor.

lastly, i'm a rather polarizing individual online--this platform is no exception. enduring half a decade of boos, jeers, naysayers, and limited finances makes one bitter, jaded and cynical. that's probably why i put the GOOD pics of my car in a link at the bottom of the wiki, rather than showboating them in plain view. it's been a HARD JOURNEY to get my car to this point. asking fellow platform owners to show a little initiative & actually READ my entry and follow the link to my gallery isn't really preposterous--especially with how often the phrase "use the search function and read" keeps getting tossed around. i would have thought that forum veterans would show some incentive. a miscalculation on my part.

i didn't deserve to win, and i knew that before the poll even started. my ride is simply not up to the caliber that toolman put forth; and i salute him for it. that said, i barely even got sympathy votes. it was surreal and quite a bit of a slap in the face for how much work, time, effort and funds i've put into this car.

in some ways, i suppose a casual observer might chalk this up to self-fufillilng prophecy. as though i'm intentionally turning my back on those who spit in my face. perhaps there is a kernal of truth to that. i've always felt that according to my platform peers, i just don't "measure up". the outcome of that particular ROTM solidified that judgment in my mind. to that end, emilie is correct; it has little to do with my transmission, and a lot more to do with how this platform relates to me.

so in light of this, as i aluded to earlier, i am NOT going to enter my car in september. it is certainly elligable, but there's two key reasons not to:

1. there are many deserving cars out there which get pushed out of the limelight every month. this is a chance for one of them to shine (granny, bslade, etc). having an atx month is beneficial for many n/a GTO owners as well as fwd owners.

2. i don't want this to be about me. the feedback here suggests that that is the perception of several members; that it's a means to limit my own competition. while it certainly does limit competition, it doesn't do so any more so than any other "specialty" months. if it does turn out to be a spectacular failure, it doesn't have to become a recurring ROTM feature; and i'm ok with that. all i ask is that the waters be tested.


in summation, because of #2, it has become clear to me that the only true recourse left open to me is to run in an "unlimited" month. that likely relegates me to competition against well-prepped race cars, pristine show-cars, and the like. the impetus will be on me whether or not i wish to enter. it's impossibly difficult to summon moxie in the face of such an scathingly abhorrant showing in the last competition. it begs the question of "why bother in the first place"?

i'm here because of my love for this platform. i bleed z11/15/16. that is probably the only reason why i even attempt to share; i have a passion that burns fiercly inside of me. if i were any less passionate about this platform, i would either be keeping all of my progress to myself or i would have moved on to something else a long time ago. i've been kicked around far too much by fellow members (and to a great extent by my own car). any rational person would have thrown in the towel years ago.

please, let there be a ROTM for atx; even if it only happens once. just for once, i'd like to see our platform's "red headed step-children" be given a moment in the sun. let it go to the most deserving member who would otherwise likely not capture a ROTM crown. i'm stepping aside on this one. all i want is to see a token of recognition. after that, you may continue with the chorus of hatemongering.

TT4ME
12-08-2010, 09:08 PM
Lots of info, here are my thoughts:

I bought/built/drive my 3s for me. I never wish to have it judged. I don't have the online popularity to help with that matter. I think this view point may assist you as you obviously have different feelings. (Honestly the outcome of that ROTM (as far as I'm concerned) has nothing to do with ATX. It was a downright depressing WIKI page with a beat up 3000 featured.)

I think you are your own worst enemy for the ATX. I can't even estimate how many threads I've seen that you've derailed for an ATX plug. Which leads to your so called "hatemongering." Pushing views/beliefs on anybody naturally leads to defense. This is universal (well, at minimum American.)

Emilie@GZP
12-08-2010, 10:15 PM
dude, you make mountains out of molehills when it comes to everything, don't you? it's a monthly internet contest, not the definition of life itself.

Hans@GZP
12-08-2010, 10:18 PM
ooooooooooooooooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk kkkkkkk

onebadmollafolla
12-09-2010, 01:16 AM
my entry was multiple things:

it was first and foremost, the rantings of a pessimistic perfectionist to whom it is hundred-fold easier to find flaws than beauty. i find it impossibly hard to minimize flaws, because doing so also minimizes the importance of fixing them.

second, it was a ode to my car. after putting ~100k on it in 6 (at the time) years of daily driving, i've come to know it inside and out. listing the features of my car in such a fashion is a trip down memory lane. we've been through a lot together, and its character (and mine) have developed because of it. i know that mine will never have the "SEMA" quality of someone who spent $60,000+ removing every bolt & screw from the car during an 18-month long "frame-off" restoration. it's my DD. it's a self-depreciating habit; and it fully embodies the core of my being.

third, i'm different--and i like it that way. i wouldn't drive a 3/s otherwise. my entry was intentionally designed to have that individual flavor.

lastly, i'm a rather polarizing individual online--this platform is no exception. enduring half a decade of boos, jeers, naysayers, and limited finances makes one bitter, jaded and cynical. that's probably why i put the GOOD pics of my car in a link at the bottom of the wiki, rather than showboating them in plain view. it's been a HARD JOURNEY to get my car to this point. asking fellow platform owners to show a little initiative & actually READ my entry and follow the link to my gallery isn't really preposterous--especially with how often the phrase "use the search function and read" keeps getting tossed around. i would have thought that forum veterans would show some incentive. a miscalculation on my part.

i didn't deserve to win, and i knew that before the poll even started. my ride is simply not up to the caliber that toolman put forth; and i salute him for it. that said, i barely even got sympathy votes. it was surreal and quite a bit of a slap in the face for how much work, time, effort and funds i've put into this car.

in some ways, i suppose a casual observer might chalk this up to self-fufillilng prophecy. as though i'm intentionally turning my back on those who spit in my face. perhaps there is a kernal of truth to that. i've always felt that according to my platform peers, i just don't "measure up". the outcome of that particular ROTM solidified that judgment in my mind. to that end, emilie is correct; it has little to do with my transmission, and a lot more to do with how this platform relates to me.

so in light of this, as i aluded to earlier, i am NOT going to enter my car in september. it is certainly elligable, but there's two key reasons not to:

1. there are many deserving cars out there which get pushed out of the limelight every month. this is a chance for one of them to shine (granny, bslade, etc). having an atx month is beneficial for many n/a GTO owners as well as fwd owners.

2. i don't want this to be about me. the feedback here suggests that that is the perception of several members; that it's a means to limit my own competition. while it certainly does limit competition, it doesn't do so any more so than any other "specialty" months. if it does turn out to be a spectacular failure, it doesn't have to become a recurring ROTM feature; and i'm ok with that. all i ask is that the waters be tested.


in summation, because of #2, it has become clear to me that the only true recourse left open to me is to run in an "unlimited" month. that likely relegates me to competition against well-prepped race cars, pristine show-cars, and the like. the impetus will be on me whether or not i wish to enter. it's impossibly difficult to summon moxie in the face of such an scathingly abhorrant showing in the last competition. it begs the question of "why bother in the first place"?

i'm here because of my love for this platform. i bleed z11/15/16. that is probably the only reason why i even attempt to share; i have a passion that burns fiercly inside of me. if i were any less passionate about this platform, i would either be keeping all of my progress to myself or i would have moved on to something else a long time ago. i've been kicked around far too much by fellow members (and to a great extent by my own car). any rational person would have thrown in the towel years ago.

please, let there be a ROTM for atx; even if it only happens once. just for once, i'd like to see our platform's "red headed step-children" be given a moment in the sun. let it go to the most deserving member who would otherwise likely not capture a ROTM crown. i'm stepping aside on this one. all i want is to see a token of recognition. after that, you may continue with the chorus of hatemongering.

tl;dr

Are you out of your f***ing mind?

Runner up
12-09-2010, 01:35 AM
Fucking pity party up in here.

Granny
12-09-2010, 01:14 PM
I want to thank all the parties that contributed to this thread getting out of hand.

I was really happy that the FWD’s were given their own COTM where we could compete more fairly regardless if it was an AXT or MXT instead of being sized up against a 500HP VR4.

I may be the only one but I can’t help but to feel this pissing contest has distracted and placed a dark cloud over our first FWD COTH competition.

Thank you
Granny

DocWalt
12-09-2010, 01:21 PM
Do we need an ATX poll? IMO, no, because it dramatically limits who can enter. Do I think it's fair that people don't have very equal opportunities in regards to getting votes? Not really, it's mostly a popularity contest, which isn't fair for those that rarely post, etc.

Do I think half of the people posting in this thread are jackasses? Yes, very much so.

onebadmollafolla
12-09-2010, 02:57 PM
I want to thank all the parties that contributed to this thread getting out of hand.

I was really happy that the FWD’s were given their own COTM where we could compete more fairly regardless if it was an AXT or MXT instead of being sized up against a 500HP VR4.

I may be the only one but I can’t help but to feel this pissing contest has distracted and placed a dark cloud over our first FWD COTH competition.

Thank you
Granny

My problem is not with having a FWD poll. In fact, it's a rather good idea. My problem is breaking it down even further to an ATX poll on top of that along with the rage passion that inperfectdarkness has for ATX transmissions on 3S's. If we are breaking it down into such specific details, it will get out of hand and lose meaning. It would be similar to me petitioning for a 3S poll that only included active aero 3S's. His idea was just a ridiculous break down. Separation between AWD and FWD (SL/Base/ES vs VR4/RT/TT) is perfectly fine. :)

IPD
12-10-2010, 12:59 PM
My problem is not with having a FWD poll. In fact, it's a rather good idea. My problem is breaking it down even further to an ATX poll on top of that along with the rage passion that inperfectdarkness has for ATX transmissions on 3S's. If we are breaking it down into such specific details, it will get out of hand and lose meaning. It would be similar to me petitioning for a 3S poll that only included active aero 3S's. His idea was just a ridiculous break down. Separation between AWD and FWD (SL/Base/ES vs VR4/RT/TT) is perfectly fine. :)

that was the intent behind this thread; to gauge validity. i'll leave the ultimate decision up to someone a bit more impartial--our ROTM mod. i'm too close to the subject matter to accurately ascertain whether or not the "no's" are because of genuine legitimacy or residual animosity. if she determines the former to be the case, then i remit all assertions i've made here. i only wish to submit that three VERY WORTHY atx cars did not win ROTM for december. i have nothing further to add.

Emilie@GZP
12-10-2010, 02:02 PM
that was the intent behind this thread; to gauge validity. i'll leave the ultimate decision up to someone a bit more impartial--our ROTM mod. i'm too close to the subject matter to accurately ascertain whether or not the "no's" are because of genuine legitimacy or residual animosity. if she determines the former to be the case, then i remit all assertions i've made here. i only wish to submit that three VERY WORTHY atx cars did not win ROTM for december. i have nothing further to add.

just because YOU think they should win, doesn't mean they will. 2 of the 3 top runners were ATX.

pezcore
12-10-2010, 07:24 PM
drunk post ftw?

lol, check your thread title

MK_94_3000GT
12-10-2010, 08:25 PM
I dont post much on this site, but I lurk quite a bit. Imperfect your attitude is the biggest thing hurting you. If you drove a sick VR4 I wouldn't care because of how you come off. You seem to think that everyone is against you. It just so happens that the US version of our car in its highest model was not given an ATX therefore people tend to gravitate towards those that are (highest model). You cant compare us to the Supra, because the Supra had a turbo and an ATX in the US.

Nevertheless things that you may or may not realize about yourself, (at least on the old forum) you use to be the bloody damn AWD conversion police. If someone said they did it you felt compelled to find out who and how and wanted proof. Its proven thanks to Evan (Shooter, who mind you did your work), that it is possible. I dont have a thread on mine and I dont plan to make one, because it got out of hand over there.

Back to my point things you do turn people off and its got nothing to do with your car. You feel the need to make your ATX plugs wherever you can and I think most of the 3S world knows you dry hump ATXs, lets move on.

Emilie@GZP
12-11-2010, 04:22 PM
I dont post much on this site, but I lurk quite a bit. Imperfect your attitude is the biggest thing hurting you. If you drove a sick VR4 I wouldn't care because of how you come off. You seem to think that everyone is against you. It just so happens that the US version of our car in its highest model was not given an ATX therefore people tend to gravitate towards those that are (highest model). You cant compare us to the Supra, because the Supra had a turbo and an ATX in the US.

Nevertheless things that you may or may not realize about yourself, (at least on the old forum) you use to be the bloody damn AWD conversion police. If someone said they did it you felt compelled to find out who and how and wanted proof. Its proven thanks to Evan (Shooter, who mind you did your work), that it is possible. I dont have a thread on mine and I dont plan to make one, because it got out of hand over there.

Back to my point things you do turn people off and its got nothing to do with your car. You feel the need to make your ATX plugs wherever you can and I think most of the 3S world knows you dry hump ATXs, lets move on.

actually, Turbo Bob, or whatever his username is over there, was the first documented AWD conversions. My beige SL was the second or third, and first finished ATX AWD conversion. Shooter hopped on a few years later.

Tool Man
12-11-2010, 07:22 PM
They shouldn't separate them at all. Any deserving car can win. Mine won twice, one time as a NA and then as a TT conversion. I'm pretty sure I didn’t win on popularity, being a global Mod at the time kind of kills that. Put time in the car and let it gain it's own respect in the community.

IPD
12-12-2010, 06:36 AM
actually, Turbo Bob, or whatever his username is over there, was the first documented AWD conversions. My beige SL was the second or third, and first finished ATX AWD conversion. Shooter hopped on a few years later.

i think it was bob the great, barefoot, and then you; but i could be mistaken. yours, audibles, and mine are the only documented atx awd conversions, iirc--although enollava is currently working on reverse-engineering one on a vr4; which will be the first of its kind if i'm not mistaken.

MK_94_3000GT,

the only time i "challenged" anyone's conversion was when there was ZERO proof supplied of it. not a thread. not a picture. not a damn thing. maybe that's irrelevant on a simple conversion like es>rt sails; but on something as massive as a z11>z16/15 swap, i find it shocking to think that one wouldn't provide the slightest shred of proof. if you took that personally, then i apologize.

i'm sure there are a LOT of people in this community who are sick of listening to me. point taken. please understand that i'm not trying to convert any of you. when i speak out, it's because of those owners who have had their car for 3 months or less are wanting to convert it, rather than just buying what they really wanted in the first place. i'm right there with anyone who tells a new owner of an atx es that he should have bought a vr4 instead--if that's what he's trying to mod it into. new owners shouldn't make the mistake of getting attached before they have what they truly want. believe it or not, there are some future owners out there who will want an atx. "ethnic cleansing" of this platform is as much a disservice to them as it is to the owners who could have saved time and money just buying the right car in the first place.

one thing i will add as the voice of experience. don't do what i did. it's better to start with a tt, grow to hate mtx--and convert it, rather than trying to turn a base model into the exact opposite of what it was born as. kudos to enollava for attempting the sensible method.

MK_94_3000GT
12-12-2010, 09:41 AM
actually, Turbo Bob, or whatever his username is over there, was the first documented AWD conversions. My beige SL was the second or third, and first finished ATX AWD conversion. Shooter hopped on a few years later.


Its actually bob the great, and his uses a CNC'd made piece to make the front mounts work. Not everyone really has access to that kinda stuff or knows someone who does. I'm not saying Evan was first or second and I never said you didnt do it. Shooter just so happen to show how to do it using parts from a TT so that it could be done by just about anyone with a donor car.

Emilie@GZP
12-12-2010, 09:49 AM
Evan did the conversion after I did, and barefoot did the conversion after I did as well. :)

Emilie@GZP
12-12-2010, 10:02 AM
Its actually bob the great, and his uses a CNC'd made piece to make the front mounts work. Not everyone really has access to that kinda stuff or knows someone who does. I'm not saying Evan was first or second and I never said you didnt do it. Shooter just so happen to show how to do it using parts from a TT so that it could be done by just about anyone with a donor car.

I knew it was bob something. Yea, we didn't have access to CNC equipment, so, we cut out the mounting points from a VR4, and welded them all in to my SL. This was back in early 2006, I posted up a step-by-step.

http://www.3si.org/forum/f13/maybe-almost-there-auto-awd-10-1-tt-converted-sl-333719/

Barefoot did it 2 years after me, and evan did it 3 years after I did.

http://www.3si.org/forum/f117/fwd-awd-converted-cars-how-many-there-now-447874/

*edited* put 05 instead of 06 :p

MK_94_3000GT
12-12-2010, 10:29 AM
I knew it was bob something. Yea, we didn't have access to CNC equipment, so, we cut out the mounting points from a VR4, and welded them all in to my SL. This was back in early 2005, I posted up a step-by-step.


Not really trying to argue with you, but thats not a step by step. I knew it had been done, and actually I started doing mine before Evan put up his actual step by step with removing the whole inner wheel well. I had been looking in to making CNC'd mounts and never really got very far on that. Then his thread came about and I did what he did. Not trying to take credit from you by any means, just his literally had do this then picture and so on. Thats a step by step. Anyhow unimportant in the bigger picture.

Emilie@GZP
12-12-2010, 11:01 AM
sorry, I should reword that... step-by-step pictures and videos :)

IPD
12-12-2010, 05:33 PM
...one thing i never did figure out is where to source the new trans mount. to this day, mine is missing one of the mount brackets. evan didn't have any idea where to source it. i can't even find a good picture of it.

Emilie@GZP
12-12-2010, 06:00 PM
all the trans mounts are the same... are you talking about the bracket?

IPD
12-12-2010, 06:19 PM
yeah. with the awd, a different type of bracket is needed for the one mount, iirc. mine is "mountless" in that spot currently.

Emilie@GZP
12-12-2010, 06:28 PM
no idea. Mine came with a bracket. We have a few spares at the shop, i'll take a look if I remember tomorrow

Hans@GZP
12-12-2010, 07:37 PM
Maybe the trans stay bracket? The ones bolted to the block and connect to the bottom of the trans?

IPD
12-12-2010, 08:10 PM
if i remember correctly, it's the bracket that this bolts onto:

http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac269/max_penn/Inperfectdarkness%20AWD%20Swap%20with%20Auto%20AWD %20Trans/100_3829Large.jpg

never came with the trans/xfer case.


p.s.
i'm about 8,000 miles away from my car right now, so its kinda difficult to picture from memory...
i dont' know if you can make it out from any of the pictures here:

http://s906.photobucket.com/albums/ac269/max_penn/Inperfectdarkness%20AWD%20Swap%20with%20Auto%20AWD %20Trans/?start=all

green-lantern
12-12-2010, 08:42 PM
As it is now I think I'm the last to do the conversion. lol

Hans@GZP
12-12-2010, 11:24 PM
It's good you are missing that bracket.... because they never came with them :)

IPD
12-13-2010, 08:57 AM
It's good you are missing that bracket.... because they never came with them :)

so the xfer case has useless bolt holes? :Doh:

tazman
12-14-2010, 02:51 PM
Isn't September's COTM for ATX?

Hans@GZP
12-14-2010, 06:22 PM
so the xfer case has useless bolt holes? :Doh:

No, you should have 6 bolts going through the t-case and into the trans. I don't see where you would be missing bolts?

IPD
12-14-2010, 06:41 PM
the top of the xfer case has holes on it which appear to fit some type of mount. i'm not referring to the side which bolts to the trans.

Atrosity
12-23-2010, 02:07 PM
I still think this is kind of a dumb topic in general. To be honest I am sure most people do not care if your car is atx or mtx....most people probably care about turbo and build set ups.