Transmission help needed ASAP...

[AshyBone]

I just got my new 300m output shaft, t-case and low mile rebuilt tranny (welded vcu) in this week. I'm trying to install the output shaft in the tranny which is still out of the car. The end case isn't coming off. I have a good 1/4" gap but its not prying off. When ever I move the end case the verticle shifter arm will move up and down with the end case. What is stuck what am i doing wrong?

I'm doing this in my room like an idiot because I thought it was going to be a couple hours of work since I about what to do on 3si.... Ya....

[x2percentmilk]

Theres got to be another bolt or smoething holding it on. I know I had that problem with the mid case on my FWD tranny. Give it another thorough lookthrough, they wouldnt have designed something that you could not get at from the outside to take the case off.

[Primus101]

You have to remove the small cover that holds the shiftrod detent balls and springs, and of course the balls and springs as well-

[RealMcCoy]

You do realize the input shaft bearing is pressed on right...? You need to either get a big puller on it(my preffered method) or hammer it out.

[AshyBone]

^^^ Which cover? And stupid question I'm sorry but i've never payed attension to transmissions but the shiftrods are the arms that shift gears, the shift linkages connect to them? I have to unbolt those to get to that lil plate thing?

[AshyBone]

So according to the other sight (are we not allowed to say the name) its easier to take off the bell housing then mid case. I think I might need a more thorough walk through though but I'm just haveing trouble getting the SOB seperated. I have unbolted everything around the bell housing and using flat heads to try to pry it up. Then I tried using my extensions.

[J_Parker]

I just took mine appart.

Take the Snap ring off of the input shaft. Remove the shift levers, they'll give you some grief, but twist and turn them till they come out. It'll make things a hell of a lot easier in the end. Take the small plate off the endcase that has the bearings and springs inside. Remove you spedo sensor and gear shaft for it. And because you already have it appart, I fought with mine for a little bit, but you need to have near exact gap on either side until the dowels are out of their holes. Once you get it appart pull your output shaft directly away from the rest of the gearset until the gears clear then pull straight up.

[AshyBone]

There's a snap ring around the output shaft? Is it on the inside or outside of the transmission. Can it be reached through the bell housing? And when you say remove the shifter arms, I took off the easy one but that one that actually goes into the transmission that is sitting on that plate... That just pulls out after you unbolt it?

When It comes to spliting the bellhousing from the midcase do I'm able to get one side pretty far apart. The side with the shifter arms doesn't seperate for shit.

[J_Parker]

There's a snap ring around the output shaft? Is it on the inside or outside of the transmission. Can it be reached through the bell housing? And when you say remove the shifter arms, I took off the easy one but that one that actually goes into the transmission that is sitting on that plate... That just pulls out after you unbolt it?

When It comes to spliting the bellhousing from the midcase do I'm able to get one side pretty far apart. The side with the shifter arms doesn't seperate for shit.

No, there's no snap ring for the output shaft, just a bearing and a seal. On the input shaft of the transmission (engine side if you will) There is a snap ring holding the shaft to the bearing, if you take this off it'll simply slide out of the bearing rather than trying to take the bearing with it, it's right behind where the throwout bearing and rlease fork would be. As for the shifter leaver, the vertical control is simple enough to remove. The horizontal however is a little bit of a pain in the ass, you'll have to "wiggle" the leaver and pull up on the plate at the same time. It should pop out, just make sure that you don't lose the spring that's on the end shaft of the mechanism. There should be a bolt to the front side of the shifter that makes manuvering the mechanism a little easier if you take it out as well.

[blindmist]

You have to remove the small cover that holds the shiftrod detent balls and springs, and of course the balls and springs as well-

This ^^

[J_Parker]

This ^^

^^^

Si. Don't forget that.

[J_Parker]

http://www.3sx.com/faq/manuals/Service-Manual-Transmission-AWD-3S-Getrag-English.pdf

This should give you a little better Idea of what's inside the trans.

You'll want to look about 1/2 way down and it should show you the internals.

[J_Parker]

1) Take sensors etc off. (Just to ensure none are broken in the process)

Q: Are you talking about the speed sensor?

A: Speed sensor yes, it doesnt hurt to remove the temprature sensor either.


2) Take shift levers out.

Q: One is easy but the one that actually goes into the tranny that sits on that plate, how the hell does that come out and if you unbolt those two small bolts on that square plate do you have to pry it off?

A: First on the endcase of the transmission there is a small plate with two 10mm bolts thas has to be removed, there will be three springs and three little bearings inside. Then unbold the shifter mechanism plate, lift it up gently with a screwdriver. wiggle the leaver and pull up at the same time, it'll be a bugger but it'll come.


3) Remove the snap ring from the input shaft.

Q: Where the hell is this snap ring?

A: The snap ring is behind where the throwout bearing and release fork should be.



5) Take the small plate off the front of the plate, be sure not to lose the bearings and springs inside!

Q: Can you explain this some more?

A: There is on the outermost case of the tans a small rectangular plate probably about 3/4" wide by 2" long that is held on by two 10mm bolts, behind it is three small springs and washers. I believe the purpose of them is to keep the shift rods in their place.

[AshyBone]

Thanks man all that really helps. When I get a lil time maybe this weekend I'll try to see if I can get that bitch apart... My room dosent smell of transmission as I thought it would lol.

[J_Parker]

Thanks man all that really helps. When I get a lil time maybe this weekend I'll try to see if I can get that bitch apart... My room dosent smell of transmission as I thought it would lol.

Lol, I was supposed to be done mine in two days, but the synchros were too far gone to just put it back together. Now my shop smells like gas, gear oil, and one bad fucking mood :p Hope it all goes well though man.

P.S. Sorry for double posting a couple times, I had a few drinks last night at the company christmas party and was super tired lol.

[AshyBone]

Well mine was just rebuilt recently so I'm not that worried about that. The only other question I have is when I'm putting the tranny back together do I have to use a sealer or something to make sure it doesn't leak?

[J_Parker]

Sure do, just use a thing bead of orange copper gsaket maker around the housings and anything that might leak. The trans isn't under any fluid pressure, but it's still a good idea to adequately seal it up. Just make sure that you're not using so much that gobs of it are going to press out into the casing.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

if I had the trans out of the car I would pull the bellhousing and midcase to replace the output shaft. You are going in it the wrong direction technically.

[blindmist]

Well mine was just rebuilt recently so I'm not that worried about that. The only other question I have is when I'm putting the tranny back together do I have to use a sealer or something to make sure it doesn't leak?

http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-51531-Anaerobic-Flange-Sealant/dp/B000HBGL6O


That is what you REALLY need to use.

[J_Parker]

Well Chris... It looks like you'll beat me in getting yours back together, my butternuts cousin dropped my bellhousing off the second story floor of the shop I was rebuilding it in and busted the whole damn side off :Disdain: And seeing as he's unemployed... I don't get a new one for about three weeks. :MikeB:

[J. Fast]

Well mine was just rebuilt recently so I'm not that worried about that. The only other question I have is when I'm putting the tranny back together do I have to use a sealer or something to make sure it doesn't leak?

Permatex Anaerobic Flange Sealant w/ Surface prep works really well and any excess will dissolve in the trans fluid. Another sealant that works very well is Honda bond.

The copper gasket J_Parker mentioned is pretty agressive and is mostly used for copper crush gasket replacements, turbo oil line or coolant flanges and etc. That stuff is a bitch to break loose and even a bigger heache to clean off. Anaerobic is what you're looking for as the definition is what it does "cures in the absence of air".

The other questions you have are answered in the TIM someone posted. Follow the disassembly and reassembly steps and you should come out fine. Unless you bought that unit from a reputable shop I would take the whole thing apart like Forest said and go through it.

[blindmist]

Permatex Anaerobic Flange Sealant w/ Surface prep works really well and any excess will dissolve in the trans fluid. Another sealant that works very well is Honda bond.

The copper gasket J_Parker mentioned is pretty agressive and is mostly used for copper crush gasket replacements, turbo oil line or coolant flanges and etc. That stuff is a bitch to break loose and even a bigger heache to clean off. Anaerobic is what you're looking for as the definition is what it does "cures in the absence of air".

The other questions you have are answered in the TIM someone posted. Follow the disassembly and reassembly steps and you should come out fine. Unless you bought that unit from a reputable shop I would take the whole thing apart like Forest said and go through it.

You only need to buy the surface prep if you are putting the sealant on in cold temps like below 32F. If you are in a 70F shop, just clean the surface with brake cleaner and go for it. Save a couple bucks.

[AshyBone]

So just order what you posted ealier off of amazon and if I'm doing this in say... My room just squeeze between the surfaces and bolt it closed then let it rest for like what a day before I start the most joyes of processes of re installing the tranny into the car?


Well Chris... It looks like you'll beat me in getting yours back together, my butternuts cousin dropped my bellhousing off the second story floor of the shop I was rebuilding it in and busted the whole damn side off :Disdain: And seeing as he's unemployed... I don't get a new one for about three weeks. :MikeB:

..... Yep ASS WHOOPIN!!!!!!!
Dropped the bellhousing off the second story..... I don't even know what the fuck to say.... Man I am so sorry. Do you want me to send you one of mine? I have 3 trannys.... Ok 2 I'm not usin.

Anyway I got my output shaft in we ended up sliding off the bellhousing then the mid case. In the process I fucked up the retainer clip/silver ring that holds the input shaft I think it is. Any1 know its part # or know where I can get one from?

[blindmist]

..... Yep ASS WHOOPIN!!!!!!!
Dropped the bellhousing off the second story..... I don't even know what the fuck to say.... Man I am so sorry. Do you want me to send you one of mine? I have 3 trannys.... Ok 2 I'm not usin.

Anyway I got my output shaft in we ended up sliding off the bellhousing then the mid case. In the process I fucked up the retainer clip/silver ring that holds the input shaft I think it is. Any1 know its part # or know where I can get one from?

Check 3SX.

[AshyBone]

k thanks.

[J_Parker]

So just order what you posted ealier off of amazon and if I'm doing this in say... My room just squeeze between the surfaces and bolt it closed then let it rest for like what a day before I start the most joyes of processes of re installing the tranny into the car?



..... Yep ASS WHOOPIN!!!!!!!
Dropped the bellhousing off the second story..... I don't even know what the fuck to say.... Man I am so sorry. Do you want me to send you one of mine? I have 3 trannys.... Ok 2 I'm not usin.

Anyway I got my output shaft in we ended up sliding off the bellhousing then the mid case. In the process I fucked up the retainer clip/silver ring that holds the input shaft I think it is. Any1 know its part # or know where I can get one from?

If worst comes to worst how much would you want for one? I may not need one now too though, I'll let you know in about two weeks. I just may be picking up a GTO on trade for my Soarer.

I wanted to kick his ass so damn bad man, all I could do to stop myself was walk outside and cool off for about 15 minuts :p

[blindmist]

So just order what you posted ealier off of amazon and if I'm doing this in say... My room just squeeze between the surfaces and bolt it closed then let it rest for like what a day before I start the most joyes of processes of re installing the tranny into the car?


Sorry, missed this part. Just put the stuff on there with your finger, you dont have to use much at all, just enough to cover the entire edge with red. As soon as you tighten the bolts down on the case, it is set and you could pour fluid in right then and there if you wanted to and it wouldn't leak. It instantly seals and sets when you crush it.

That is why this stuff is so amazing and why I use it on everything. Fuck the paper and cork and all those stupid gaskets. Anaerobic sealant is the ONLY way, it seems, to keep a mitsubishi from leaking ANY fluid.

[J_Parker]

I used the stuff on my leaky intake pleumn and throttle body, it worked wonders. Plus I didn't have to pry it off with a crow bar. I still think on the more critical parts the copper silicone is the way to go :p I just don't think the oil pan has enough structure to help the Anerobic seal and cure (off topic I know) The last time I used the Silicone on my trans was when I had first gotten the car, it was leaking quite badly in terms of a driveline component. I was in a pinch and just cleaned up the housings and VERY sparingly used the silicone. I don't think I'll do it again though, it was a royal PITA to get the damn thing appart... But sealed like noones business.

[aaronatstate]

if I had the trans out of the car I would pull the bellhousing and midcase to replace the output shaft. You are going in it the wrong direction technically.

This.

If the trans is out of the car, take the bellhousing and mid case off. You'll spend more time prepping the gasket surfaces then you will actually replacing the output shaft if you do it this way. It' is SOOOO much easier then trying to pull the end case off. That input shaft is pressed into the end case. It's also way less of a pain to line everything up.

[AshyBone]

I ended up pulling off the bellhousing then the end case. You guys where right of coarse (as if there was ever any doubt). The only thing is for no appearent reason we fucked up that ring that sits on the intermediate shaft (not sure if thats the right name), that shaft that has the big ass gears on it. It kinda looks like a snap ring but it doesn't have the wholes at the ends. Where can I get that? I kinda wanna have the tranny ready to be put back in by saturday so do yall think autozone/napa/checkers(orielys whatever)/carquest shit the chysbishi stealership would have them so I can have it done by saturday. I just have to put the housing back together...

J_Parker in all honesty dude if you do need one just let me know. I have no problem sending you the one I'm pulling from car now. I cracked the neck that surrounds the oil fill plug. If you want one in better shape i have the one in my back yard that came with my jdm front clip and LSD. pay for shipping and give me $100 if you got it and take your pick of either one.

[J. Fast]

Are you talking about the snap ring (there's one on in each end of the physical shaft), or the bearing race (the rings pressed in to the case at each end)?

[AshyBone]

The bearing shaft. Its the top of the shaft inbetween the input and the output shaft. I talked to 3sx today and they said as long you can make it flat again I should be able to reuse it. Is that a good idea?

[AshyBone]

Ok so I need some help... Again. I talked to J_Parker about this too. So I finally got my tranny back together but there's 1 bolt that is not going into place. Its that long bolt on the end case that is on the side. It doesn't catch on anything. And when I looked into the hole I just saw a bunch of metal. I'm going to have to take the bitch apart again aren't I....

[J. Fast]

The bolt locks the shaft carrier for reverse. The end cover side bolt has to be aligned with the reverse carrier and reverse shaft and installed on the end cover while it's opened. The bolt keeps the carrier from spinning. You might try to manually put it in reverse and spin the input shaft and see if you can get it to rotate into place but I don't think it will work if the carrier and carrier shaft aren't lined up.

More than likely you'll have to take it apart and set the side bolt unless you don't ever intend on using reverse again and never plan on parallel parking. Sorry for the bad news. Atleast you caught the mistake and didnt strip the bolt and damage the carrier. It was your first time rebuilding a trans and it's a simple fix so don't get too down on yourself! If you need anymore help post on up.

What trans sealer did you end up going with?

[J_Parker]

Okay, so I whipped up a quick trial and error thing on mine just now. You can spin the shaft carrier if you put something in there and spin it, I used a small flat head screw driver to spin it, it was time consuming but I got 'er. However I think it'll be faster than a teardown. Just don't use too much force on it as to cause some shavings, if you find yourself using some force to move it unfortunately a teardown will be needed. Also, because it's a partially floating carrier, you'll have to "shimmy" the bolt gently to lift the carrier in it's countersunk position. Sorry it took so long man, I've been three Provinces away from home for the past two weeks lol.

[AshyBone]

To J. Fast I ended up useing... What the hell is it called.... Ultra Black RTV silicone gasket maker. looks like its going to do a good job so far. Everything is back in place. The only thing That sucks is when I was bolting everything back down appearently a lil to much rtv got into the bolt holes so when i was tightening 2 of them chunks of the tranny came off. They don't look like there are anywhere that would cause a leak so I just put a lil RTV on those spots. I've been talking to J_Parker but now my problem is getting the shiter assembly back into place. I'm going to go mess with it some more but its a bitch. Any other tricks to getting it in anyone?

[AshyBone]

So after a couple hours of many many curse words and breaks i THINK its on right now. The plate is flush with the two guids and the holes for the bolt. I can move it freely up and down and spin the shifter right and left. I think its three levels. But how do I know that the spinning thing didn't move. Or if it was outta place I couldn't spin or move the shifter assembly up and down?

***EDIT***
Thanks for the response guys. I hope yall had a merry chirstmas and happy holidays. May your new year be profitable and good for the family and the car :D.

One thing That I have noticed, I looked at my other 2 trannies. The shifter is in the middle level. Meaning it can be pushed down and put into gear or pulled up. On the one in my room its seated all the way down on the plate. I can run through 5 gears but its not in the middle level like my other 2 trannies. Its not in right is it?

[J. Fast]

Sounds like the return spring may have snapped or come off. Those are hard to come by. I don't think you can buy just the spring. I think you have to buy an entire assembly to get one or buy one used from Kormex, Jack, or 3sx. Here's what I discovered... you can swap the return spring out with a duromax automatic trans friction plate spring. Usually when you tear apart an automatic trans you just toss crap out since everything usually comes in a rebuild kit (springs included). Turns out they can actually be used :). They're roughly the same diameter but the duromax has a few more coils so you have to cut it down to length. The coils are a little larger in diameter but it works just fine. It makes the shifter return like a diving board. I broke mine and didn't have a part number so I went over to a buddy's trans shop and dug thru some junk drawers looking for springs (probably had 30 different ones) and that was the one that lined up the best and seated properly. All I had to do was cut it, file the end down, and heat one end to flatten it out so it seated flush.

[AshyBone]

So what if I just got the shiter assembly outta my tranny that I'm dropping from the car. The one that has a cracked mid case and installed it in my tranny. I can do that. But I don't know when I could have lost the spring. When I remove the shifter assembly from the tranny how would I know if I drop it or not? Is it just a spring on the end of the shifter assembly?

There's a tranny shop right next to my house. I've been thinking of taking it to them. At this point would it even be worth the gas cause I know I'm just being lazy...

[J. Fast]

If you have a spare trans you could definitely steal the spring out of there as long as it's not damaged. Do you remember putting the spring on the rod or seeing it on there when you put the shifter assembly back on? You might try pilling the assembly again and using a flashlight and looking around in there for the spring and then fish it out with a magnet.

[MaxClass]

Try taking a look at this link. It shows what you need to do.

Output Shaft - Replacing - 3SI Wiki (http://www.3si.org/wiki/index.php/Output_Shaft_-_Replacing)

Hope this helps. I'll be doing the same thing soon too. [300m]

[AshyBone]

^^
I actually had it easier then that since my tranny is outta the car. Taking it apart from the bellhousing then the mid case is easy. Its this damn shifter assembly that's pissing me off.

If you have a spare trans you could definitely steal the spring out of there as long as it's not damaged. Do you remember putting the spring on the rod or seeing it on there when you put the shifter assembly back on? You might try pilling the assembly again and using a flashlight and looking around in there for the spring and then fish it out with a magnet.

I must have taken that tranny apart 3 times. I don't ever remember seing a spring anywhere. I don't even remember one being on the shifter assembly the first time I took it off. Now I'm going to be nervus that, that spring is somewhere in the tranny and when I get it on the car and drive it it's going to get caught in a gear somewhere and fuck it all up... Great. When I get home now I'm going to shake the hell outta my tranny to see if I hear anything.

[J. Fast]

In the rebuild manual... Section 22-13 it's part #11. It's the spring on the shift shaft. I seriously doubt it's in the trans rolling around somewhere. I really has no where to go unless you threw it in the midcase and just closed it up in there. All the orfices from the shift shaft guide area that enter the midcase are smaller than the spring so if it fell off in there it will be in the shaft housing area. Give it a rattle if you want but I'm guessing you lost it so just put another one on.

[AshyBone]

Ya I aint hear anything. So I'm going to drop the tranny outta my car and just swap the shift assembly. IS the spring on the shaft assembly or is just sitting in the tranny somehow?