View Full Version : Ebay Exhaust Review G-Blue Knockoff <-- MUST READ -->
DrGonzo
11-10-2010, 06:42 AM
I couldn't find a product reviews board so I posted this here. Please feel free to move to the correct board.
So I took a chance and ended up purchasing one of the TT exhaust kits I saw on ebay. I had been tracking the seller and the sales for quite some time now and I had my doubts on the quality. All of the exhaust the seller had sold had great reviews. Even the 3S exhaust where all good and no complaints about fitment issues.
So I took a gamble and purchased one. The seller usually has one or two for the 3S that he starts at $0.99 with $100.00 shipping. I watched a few and most sold at around $225-260 range without shipping. I then saw one go for $69.00 +shipping and though OK so the seller is for real and there are no gimmicks with his auction. one of the ones I was watching was down to the hour so I made my bid and I ended up winning. Needless to say I paid about $200.00 shipped out the door! :)
I was stoked about the price but still had my doubts. So a couple days go by and I had not gotten a tracking number or heard anything from the seller. I sent him a note asking for the tracking number and got a response back with 2 hours! He assured me that the item had shipped but due to issues with their computer not being able to connect with Fed-Ex he didn't have a tracking number to send me. I got a little worried at this point. Ebay said the item should be delivered between the Nov 11-16. it was being shipped from Cali and I leave in NC so I knew it would take some time.
Well I got home today and I have a huge ass box on my front porch and this thing is not light! I though to myself "Ohh Shit that got here fast!!!" 9 day shipping is fast for something that large coming from the other side of the country. I open it up and see something surprising:
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0826.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0826.JPG)
I took it out and started to examine it closely. All the welds were really nice and clean Tig welds! The hangers were all Tig welded and constructed correctly! All the hardware was there including the gaskets!
This was really nice looking!
Now remember this is a full exhaust package! It includes the front pre-cat eliminator, Downpipe with 02-bungs and flex section, test pipe and full 3" cat-back split to 2.5 into canisters with 4.5" exhaust tips.
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0829.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0829.JPG)
I looked over and over trying to find something wrong but nothing. I fitted the whole thing together and none of the flanges were warped!
Now here is the real kicker! The whole thing is T-304 Stainless Steel!!! :eek:
Magnet tested each piece and it is real SS. The only things not SS are the flanges, flex section connectors and the 02 bungs!
Granted I have yet to install this but I did take measurements and compared it to the old exhaust I had on the car and everything is within spec. So it should bolt right in. Even it I do have to make some slight adjustments it was still worth the price I paid and I am extremely happy at this point and still somewhat in shock!
Here is the link to the seller on Ebay: eBay My World - surewinproducts (http://myworld.ebay.com/ebaymotors/surewinproducts/)
I will try to get this installed this weekend and update the thread with what else I find during the install. below are some pics of the exhaust and the various pieces:
<--CLICK FOR FULL RES IMAGES -->
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0828.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0828.JPG)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0830.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0830.JPG)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0832.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0832.JPG)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0833.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0833.JPG)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0834.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0834.JPG)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0835.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0835.JPG)
DrGonzo
11-10-2010, 06:43 AM
More Pics:
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0836.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0836.JPG)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0837.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0837.JPG)
Inside the canisters. Particles are from the packaging and the silencers.
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0838.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0838.JPG)
Rolled edge canisters!
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0839.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0839.JPG)
Nice Tig welds all over!
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0841.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0841.JPG)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0842.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0842.JPG)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0843.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0843.JPG)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0844.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0844.JPG)
All the hardware!
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0845.JPG (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0845.JPG)
mb7050
11-10-2010, 09:24 AM
I must say I´m surprised let us know how it fits.
CoreyB
11-10-2010, 10:10 AM
That is an amazing price. I want. I looked at down pipes yesterday and those alone were like $130.00 shipped.
i3igpete
11-10-2010, 10:52 AM
ridiculous price! :o
Mr Faust
11-10-2010, 12:16 PM
I don't like the cannister style mufflers but I'm sure you could put something else in place of them, looks like a great buy regardless.
ver fer
11-10-2010, 12:18 PM
Looks good, but there may be an issue with the piping going to the passenger side hitting the drive shaft.
green-lantern
11-10-2010, 12:28 PM
I have the same exhaust and my only complaint was the V clamp and it appears they have done away with that. Also it's not really a complaint but if you look down into the Y pipe the two pipes coming in stick into the other part a little too far. I'm sure it would create turbulence but for the price you just can't beat it.
Looks pretty nice. I just tend to have a special hate for buying anything metal that comes out of China because of how they are allowed to cheat in manufacture (pretty much all our scrap is boated over there and they melt it down under pretty much zero environmental regulation). Sometimes that stuff is tricky to weld. I used a china "test pipe" for its flanges and some mufflers because they were negligibly cheap. They usually claim 304SS, but 304 and 309 rods didn't work as well as they should have and it is more magnetic than it should be. I don't know what it really is, but the Chinese seem to have a rod that works nicely as the welds usually are quite good.
DrGonzo
11-10-2010, 01:23 PM
I checked the pipes with a magnet and nothing. So it is some form of SS whether its 304 -310. I still can't complain considering the price I paid.
Had someone comment on 3si that they bought the exact same kit from the same seller and it bolted right up without any issue! I'm really looking forward to installing it this weekend and seeing how well it looks and bolts on.
I just wish I could get the damn engine running so I could hear it also.....
DrGonzo
11-10-2010, 01:26 PM
I have the same exhaust and my only complaint was the V clamp and it appears they have done away with that. Also it's not really a complaint but if you look down into the Y pipe the two pipes coming in stick into the other part a little too far. I'm sure it would create turbulence but for the price you just can't beat it.
I took a look down the pipe to see how the split was welded and formed. It is a smooth transition and the pipes are cut exact. Doesn't look like it is going to cause any turbulence issues. I tried to get a picture of it but couldn't get the light and focus to work right to shoot that far down the pipe.
green-lantern
11-10-2010, 01:28 PM
BTW here is a sound clip of mine with the baffles in.
http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/hptech4564/AWD%20conversion/?action=view¤t=DSCF8600.mp4
I never did get one without the baffles but it sounds great.
green-lantern
11-10-2010, 01:33 PM
I took a look down the pipe to see how the split was welded and formed. It is a smooth transition and the pipes are cut exact. Doesn't look like it is going to cause any turbulence issues. I tried to get a picture of it but couldn't get the light and focus to work right to shoot that far down the pipe.
Cool maybe it's something they addressed when they did away with the V band.
Atrosity
11-10-2010, 02:34 PM
I know someone on socal3s dynod the car with just this ebay exhaust and made really great power.
FlamboyantStealthTT
11-10-2010, 09:40 PM
hmm awesome price awaiting results on fitment
Atrosity
11-10-2010, 09:52 PM
hmm awesome price awaiting results on fitment
http://www.socal3s.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22522&hilit=ebay+exhaust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YPg4gF9OWg
CoopKill
11-10-2010, 09:58 PM
I commented over there and fitment was excellent. It bolted up very nice, no issues, no help.
The only thing that I had to adjust was the drivers side can was about 3/8" longer and 1/4" lower. $40 at exhaust shop and it's perfect. The shop confirmed stainless, but not the grade.
Before adjustment:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_dcIEIvS3Pfc/THr2AZqhTWI/AAAAAAAAKCQ/ktJM2s7LcFc/s720/DSC_6385.JPG
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_dcIEIvS3Pfc/THr2C9OUy0I/AAAAAAAAKCU/uv0g2DivXfQ/s720/DSC_6378.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_dcIEIvS3Pfc/THr2FCVGhaI/AAAAAAAAKCY/2ncVG3mjPjY/s720/DSC_6379.JPG
Atrosity
11-10-2010, 11:48 PM
It really is a very nice looking exhaust. Unfortunately I gotta go single shot for my car. :)
WestAusGTO
11-11-2010, 12:31 AM
That's the same as my one..Love it..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1PPNAQ3heA
May cause backfiring tho :)
GTOJOE
11-11-2010, 06:55 AM
Nice find. In for fitment results. Now if ony they did a quad tip.
CoopKill
11-11-2010, 10:59 AM
There are quad tips on ebay that could be welded in. I thought about it, but have no idea of quality...
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-5-Inlet-3-5-Double-Dual-Slant-Tip-Muffler-Exhaust-/220692824687?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3A3000GT&hash=item336251426f
http://www.racerinnovation.com/ebay/item/1-MU-30810E.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.com/DTM-UNIVERSAL-3-DUAL-SLANT-TIP-EXHAUST-MUFFLER-/190465034475?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3A3000GT&hash=item2c5899c8eb
http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/23000548/Images/12/MF-RS3DTM.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Dual-Slanted-Burnt-Tip-Exhaust-Muffler-2-5-Inlet-/290498807090?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3A3000GT&hash=item43a3140532
http://www.hdcautosports.com/hdcautosports/ebayjpg/mufflers/1-MU-30630T.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-5-Inlet-3-5-Dual-Flat-Burnt-Tip-N1-Muffler-Exhaust-/320615112160?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3A3000GT&hash=item4aa6265de0
http://www.racerinnovation.com/ebay/item/1-MU-30800T.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.com/FLAT-OVAL-EXHAUST-MUFFLER-XB-TC-ECLIPSE-3000GT-EVO-TC-/180577596477?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a0b43743d
http://72.32.168.148/mc/product/1-MU-307100.jpg
2fnloud
11-11-2010, 02:04 PM
If you are going to change out the mufflers why not go a pair of Flowmaster 60 Series Delta Flow and tips?
CoopKill
11-11-2010, 02:32 PM
As long as it's a flow-thru design for turbed cars That would be fine.
Chris@Rvengeperformance
11-12-2010, 09:33 AM
good price, but the other ebay downpipes that have two pipes that smoothly y into the main pipe are better designs than the stock style merge this one has.
jbeard1
11-12-2010, 11:58 AM
What does it sound like? :D
DrGonzo
11-12-2010, 12:10 PM
I will be installing the exhaust tomorrow. I'm just hoping all of the stock exhaust hangers are still on the car. If not I will have to make a run to the junk yard and hope that 92 SL is still there so I can get the hangers I need.
I won't be able to get sound clips until I figure out why the engine won't run. Once I get the engine issue figured out I will post up some sound clips.
FeaRpb
11-12-2010, 12:21 PM
Looks nice.
CoopKill
11-12-2010, 12:50 PM
I just had knee surgery Wednesday, but might get out there and get something for ya to hear. It's been 4 weeks since it has been started anyway, would be good.
i have the same exhaust, ran it the whole summer, no rust or anything. i love the sound of it, it's def a GREAT buy!
prop7459
11-12-2010, 05:17 PM
If you are going to change out the mufflers why not go a pair of Flowmaster 60 Series Delta Flow and tips?
Maybe he dose not want his car to sound like a camaro. :coo3l:
vr4tune
11-12-2010, 05:29 PM
good price, but the other ebay downpipes that have two pipes that smoothly y into the main pipe are better designs than the stock style merge this one has.
how do you know that it's a better design? Did you do some dyno testing that i don't know about? I really don't mean to sound like a dick but that is your opinion based on appearance right? How do you know that is doesn't disrupt the exhaust pulses by changing the merge point. My point is we probably shouldn't post opinions as fact unless we know that they are fact. I really don't mean to sound hostel. You have given a lot to this community and I do appreciate that.
Brett
Chris@Rvengeperformance
11-12-2010, 08:37 PM
how do you know that it's a better design? Did you do some dyno testing that i don't know about? I really don't mean to sound like a dick but that is your opinion based on appearance right? How do you know that is doesn't disrupt the exhaust pulses by changing the merge point. My point is we probably shouldn't post opinions as fact unless we know that they are fact. I really don't mean to sound hostel. You have given a lot to this community and I do appreciate that.
Brett
it doesn't take a genius or back to back dyno testing to see that a log style merge is worse than a smooth y merge. If you want a downpipe like this then the stock one works.
vr4tune
11-12-2010, 11:18 PM
it doesn't take a genius or back to back dyno testing to see that a log style merge is worse than a smooth y merge. If you want a downpipe like this then the stock one works.
You are just uninformed on this product. This is a knock off of the Tanabe concept g blue. They did over 18 months of r&d for the exhaust. That is probably more than any other company has put into a single exhaust. If you want to know more read this thread. http://www.3si.org/forum/f35/new-tanabe-concept-g-blue-turbo-back-318741/index4.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtvr4
Maybe I didnt catch the answer to this question. Why is the downpipe rear turbo section fed directly into the exhaust path of the front turbo. Its shaped like the stock dp with the terrible flowing F.
quote:
posted by Brain of gtpro
it is NOT shaped like the stock, look closely, it merges correctly, it is in the same location, but does not merge at a 90 degree, it is set at a merge angle that takes advantage of the *scavenging effect*. This combo picked up 14hp to the TIRES on a BONE stock car at stock boost, on a dynojet 424X.
hope this is useful.
Brett
Chris@Rvengeperformance
11-13-2010, 12:19 AM
not surprised a downpipe, cat back, and removing all cats picks up 14Awhp, not unusual to see that from just a downpipe.
I do not buy into your "scavenging" effect, the turbos are in the way of this. The best turbo exhaust is none.
Brian at GT Pro is one of the most full of shit people in the 3/s world. They have misrepresented the origin of many of their products and for them to say 18 months of r & d went into something means nothing.
I don't really care if you go out and buy 10 of these. I hate the way the downpipe merges, if you like it great, but you could gut the cats on a stock exhaust and pickup 15 HP, it doesn't impress me to do that with an entire exhaust system. The exhaust is designed the way it is to simplify fabrication.
vr4tune
11-13-2010, 01:15 AM
brain at gt pro is full of shit! But the 18 months of r&r is quoted by tanabe. If you realy think thint that exhaust is shit look at matt monet's (snakeskinner) dr750 powered stealth because that is the exhaust that he uses. and from what I know he wont put SHIT on his personal car! I also run that exhaust and have made GREAT power on stock turbos and EvoIII's.
exhaust with precat k&n filter boost controller on 92 octane one at stock boost and the other at 15psi peek falling off at to 12psi
http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss357/vr4tune/scan0002.jpg
http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss357/vr4tune/scan0003.jpg
E3 turbos and all supporting mods listed in sig
http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss357/vr4tune/EvoIIIdyno.jpg
Chris@Rvengeperformance
11-13-2010, 01:23 AM
who ever said matt was running this exhaust from china?
I didn't say the exhaust is shit or power can't be made, I just don't like the y-pipe merge.
You must have a lot of time on your hands or something.
CoopKill
11-13-2010, 01:18 PM
who ever said matt was running this exhaust from china?
I didn't say the exhaust is shit or power can't be made, I just don't like the y-pipe merge.
You must have a lot of time on your hands or something.
I believe he was referring to the Tanabe version.
It would be interesting to see dyno results of the two DP designs though.
CoreyB
11-13-2010, 06:16 PM
This exhaust is a steal though, bottom line. There is definitly better ones out there but not at this price.
CoopKill
11-13-2010, 08:41 PM
Well I tried. I went out and captured vid for sound, but do to issue with firewire and win7 I can't get it downloaded to my Laptop. Trying to sort out the issues, but with all things of this nature it's not looking to be soon.
Atrosity
11-13-2010, 08:47 PM
Well I tried. I went out and captured vid for sound, but do to issue with firewire and win7 I can't get it downloaded to my Laptop. Trying to sort out the issues, but with all things of this nature it's not looking to be soon.
Drivers properly installed?
CoopKill
11-13-2010, 09:03 PM
They installed automatically (in the system). There are rumors of needing to go back to legacy drivers.
Edit: The system recognizes, one of the three progs recognizes (can't do anything), so I am at a loss for now.
DrGonzo
11-14-2010, 08:13 AM
So I finally got around to getting the exhaust mounted yesterday. Everything bolted right up without issues. All the stock mounts were used and nothing is hitting or rubbing on anything. Guess the car also loved the exhaust because after not being able to get it started for weeks if finally fired right up!!! The only issue I noticed is that the canisters do not point straight out. They are slightly angled outward and the drivers side is angled ore than the passenger side. Nothing an exhaust shop couldn't fix for about $40.00. All in all it was a great find and a great buy!
So here are some pics of the exhaust installed.
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0847.jpg (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0847.jpg)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0848.jpg (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0848.jpg)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0850.jpg (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0850.jpg)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0851.jpg (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0851.jpg)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0852.jpg (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0852.jpg)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0854.jpg (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0854.jpg)
http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DSCF0846.jpg (http://3s.gonzoinc.com/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0846.jpg)
Now that the car is running I will try and get a video clip of how it sounds in the next day or so.
Chris@Rvengeperformance
11-14-2010, 10:21 AM
looks great
CoopKill
11-14-2010, 02:33 PM
Vid is uploading and coming soon. (lol and hour it's HD)
Drweldin
11-14-2010, 02:45 PM
Not a big fan of canisters, but man, sounds like they almost give them away, lol.
Looks good.
CoopKill
11-14-2010, 03:54 PM
It sounds even better under a load with the turbs spooled up! It was a bit chilly out and I didn't let it warm up, so you don't get an idea of the sound at idle...
P.S. Ignore the extra actor in the scene! lol
http://vimeo.com/16823417
blindmist
11-14-2010, 04:31 PM
Well, I am definitely getting this system when I get some money.
DrGonzo
11-14-2010, 06:29 PM
So I got a video clip right before it got to dark. Sorry for the crappy quality.
Ignore the smoke as the car is running rich right now as I have yet to get it completely tuned in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrNoPXYrOfM
Atrosity
11-14-2010, 06:43 PM
For an ebay exhaust I thought this was definitely good set up. I personally recommend getting a single shot exhaust but if that is not your taste this is pretty damn badass. Not to mention the gains were very noticeable on the dyno when a fellow socal3s member only had this exhaust installed on his car.
mb7050
11-14-2010, 06:50 PM
most bang for the buck this deal is UNBEATABLE
sounds good too
akotten
11-14-2010, 07:02 PM
Can you get it in just Cat-Back? I want to use my stillen DP instead.
DrGonzo
11-14-2010, 08:23 PM
I haven't seen it being sold as just a cat back. I didn't use the Dp that it cam with. I have a 3SX Dp that I used and it bolted right up to the ebay exhaust. I will be using the front pre-cat eliminator that came with the kit. I'm going to sell the DP that came with the kit. I test fitted it and it bolts right up also. It is made for both generations as the rear pipe is drilled with the four holes.
Need_a_Miracle
11-16-2010, 01:42 PM
Question for anyone running this exhaust.......... How much ground clearance did you loose in the rear? I'm having a little trouble justifying the cost of an oem active exhaust muffler and looking at other options.
CoopKill
11-16-2010, 02:04 PM
I am lowered on Tein S-Techs and have had no problems clearing under or rear. I have been over average and above average speed bumps...
DrGonzo
11-16-2010, 04:30 PM
I am running Intrax lowering springs and I would say I have a good 8-10" of clearance under the car with the current set-up. I can't compare it to stock as the car never had a stock exhaust when I got it.
Need_a_Miracle
11-16-2010, 05:51 PM
Thanks. It looks like the differential area might be the lowest (least clearance). It's hard to tell from the attached video how much clearance there is since the car doesn't appear to be on flat ground. I guess if it's going to hang low anywhere, near the axle is the least problematic place for it to do so.
R/T93
11-16-2010, 09:25 PM
It sounds even better under a load with the turbs spooled up! It was a bit chilly out and I didn't let it warm up, so you don't get an idea of the sound at idle...
P.S. Ignore the extra actor in the scene! lol
http://vimeo.com/16823417
Your dog is cool.
Exhaust sounds good, too.
CoopKill
11-16-2010, 09:52 PM
Thanks, she's my girl!
NOMIEZVR4
11-17-2010, 02:37 AM
I can't argue with the fact that this exhaust is a pretty great deal, however after watching this clip on youtube for the IPS Quadtip for the 3/s,..its got me sold...anyone have any idea what kind of resonator the IPS exhaust uses or even if they sell it seperately?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYU3SMLwk0Q
akotten
11-17-2010, 03:20 AM
I can't argue with the fact that this exhaust is a pretty great deal, however after watching this clip on youtube for the IPS Quadtip for the 3/s,..its got me sold...anyone have any idea what kind of resonator the IPS exhaust uses or even if they sell it seperately?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYU3SMLwk0Q
I agree the IPS quad tip does sound great, but its also more than twice as expensive. To each their own. If I was out of college and had an engineering salary my opinion might be different though. ;)
superdave104
12-23-2010, 07:30 PM
i bought this exhaust from the M2 motorsports place. looks great, sounds great, fits great. no complaints at all. got it for $190 shipped. cant beat it.
Nytron
12-24-2010, 05:33 AM
Any way to make this exhaust sit at the same height from the ground as the actual Tanabe G-Blue?
CoopKill
12-24-2010, 12:36 PM
I am lowered 1.5" and have never had issues with aggresive speed bumps or entryways, and have not heard of anyone that has.
Nytron
12-24-2010, 09:56 PM
I am lowered 1.5" and have never had issues with aggresive speed bumps or entryways, and have not heard of anyone that has.
Yeah I live in MN, I want to be able to go over 1ft of snow with confidence.
How would an exhaust shop go about modding the exhaust to make it sit higher? Do they have to cut and reweld or?
CoopKill
12-24-2010, 11:07 PM
They will have to cut and weld it. Remember they will need to be able to weld stainless. Not all of them are equipped. If it is welded as normal steal it will not last.
elyria_boy
12-31-2010, 06:26 PM
I have this same exhaust setup, I gave 400 for mine, the best price i could find at the time. the only problem i had was were the dp met the test pipe, i had to use 2 or 3 gaskets to get it to seal properly. the flanges were flat before i bolted it up but when tightened down it did some kind of concave action and didn't quite seal right with only 1 gasket. it has been 6 months and 3 thousand miles on this system with no problems. i would buy it again.
bluzvr4
01-20-2011, 03:46 PM
hey im new here i was wondering i have a 3 inch dp and cat delete. i was wondering is this 3 inch and then splits into smaller or is it 2.5 and then slits? im jw if its 3 inch i will be ording this and selling the dp and cat delete lol
DrGonzo
01-20-2011, 04:43 PM
hey im new here i was wondering i have a 3 inch dp and cat delete. i was wondering is this 3 inch and then splits into smaller or is it 2.5 and then slits? im jw if its 3 inch i will be ording this and selling the dp and cat delete lol
Correct! It is 3" pipe that splits out to 2.5 for each canister. The DP is 2.5 for each bank and connects to 3" and 3" test pipe.
bluzvr4
01-20-2011, 05:31 PM
thanks i am def going to be ordering me some exhuast
kingpablo
01-21-2011, 03:02 PM
I'm running this on my grey stealth. Sounds awesome. I hit it with a viton specral gun and it came up as 304 stainless. No complaints at all.
bluzvr4
01-21-2011, 03:15 PM
im wondering what this will sound like with my headers
CoopKill
01-21-2011, 11:45 PM
im wondering what this will sound like with my headers
Better!
bluzvr4
01-22-2011, 05:09 PM
im just hoping it wont krackel and pop to much
Mike Vincent
01-25-2011, 01:18 PM
I just installed this kit with a few friends on one of their 93vr4s, and i was very impressed for the money he spent. I have the g blue on my car, and this was seriously almost identical. It even sounded great at idle and when throwing a few revs in neutral. I wasnt around for the sound test during a hell ride, but cant picture it sounding too bad even if different from my authentic g blue system. Its hands down the best kit i have ever seen for the money. A+ in my book. : )
SpdDmnVR4
02-02-2011, 11:32 PM
So who is going to post a video of this car from a highway roll? or in cabin sound while cruising and WOT? '
How is drone inside the cabin? bad, tolerable, or near stock? I am planning on buying this in the next week or so. And I was hoping you all could answer my questions. I guess for the price you really can't go wrong.
PS: anyone need a DP? Im going to be selling the the one off this kit since I already got one for Xmas.
bluzvr4
02-02-2011, 11:37 PM
i was wondering the same thing. i am going to get it either way.
SpdDmnVR4
02-03-2011, 11:24 AM
Well, I went ahead and bought it anyway. But I still wanna see videos. I can't wait a week to hear it.
Mitsubishi 3000GT 91-99 VR4 CATBACK EXHAUST 95 96 97 98 - eBay (item 330526165837 end time Mar-03-11 17:14:10 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mitsubishi-3000GT-91-99-VR4-CATBACK-EXHAUST-95-96-97-98-/330526165837?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf4e50b4d)
This one is going for 255 Shipped. Buy it now price! no bidding involved, just buy.
ijsaul
02-03-2011, 03:11 PM
If anyone in/around the Orlando area has one, I've got a HD video cam with boom microphone available for recordings.
bluzvr4
02-03-2011, 04:25 PM
thats the one i allready the one iv been watching lol
Roybatty
02-09-2011, 02:05 PM
Been eyeing this, looking for a down pipe with a flex section; may as well get it all for the price.
Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk
What_Turbo_Lag?
02-10-2011, 05:31 PM
I just installed this kit with a few friends on one of their 93vr4s, and i was very impressed for the money he spent. I have the g blue on my car, and this was seriously almost identical. It even sounded great at idle and when throwing a few revs in neutral. I wasnt around for the sound test during a hell ride, but cant picture it sounding too bad even if different from my authentic g blue system. Its hands down the best kit i have ever seen for the money. A+ in my book. : )
Mike it sounds pretty damn good lol I'll be down hopefully this weekend so you can hear it
A+++++ on this one guys no brainer for the money
bluzvr4
02-10-2011, 06:19 PM
should be geting mine in a couple weeks:)
SpdDmnVR4
02-11-2011, 01:47 PM
Mine showed up at my parents on Wednesday. I bought it last Thursday. Too bad Im at college So I won't be able to install it until tonight after my long drive home and Letting my car cool down. Ill try to take lots of pictures. And Ill be installing on a lift So That will make it much less painless.
bluzvr4
02-11-2011, 01:51 PM
cant wait to see ur pics. ill be installing mine without a lift unless i pay someone else to do it
DrGonzo
02-11-2011, 02:24 PM
I prefer to not install it using a lift. I am better at working under a car when it is not above my head. My arms get to tired, especially when holding a part up for long periods of time trying to get measurements and such.
Installing it with the car on jacks stands is not that hard. Just make sure you install each piece on it's own, with all hardware loose. Then when it's all together go back and tighten everything down. That way it has some play to work with when installing things like the DP and such.
bluzvr4
02-11-2011, 02:51 PM
luckly i allready have a 3" DP and cat delete installed. i hear the DP can be a pain in the butt
Roybatty
02-11-2011, 04:54 PM
luckly i allready have a 3" DP and cat delete installed. i hear the DP can be a pain in the butt
They can get rusty in bolts. Mine has a tight fit & no flex section so I need a pry bar in a solid spot.
Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk
bluzvr4
02-11-2011, 05:47 PM
i just put mine in a couple months ago so im hoping i will be able to fandangle it as much as i need
Roybatty
03-11-2011, 07:36 PM
fyi, looks like price went up +$50
Mitsubishi 3000GT 91-99 VR4 CATBACK EXHAUST 95 96 97 98 - eBay (item 330537483787 end time Apr-01-11 18:53:05 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330537483787&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en)
DocWalt
03-12-2011, 02:18 AM
Still dirt cheap, lol. I wish I could get an exhaust for that price.
Roybatty
03-12-2011, 09:03 AM
Very true. I am still a friggin tight wad till the wife gets a real job; I emailed the vendor that I would purchase right away for the old price, lol nothing to lose.
Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk
zapman2000
03-12-2011, 09:24 AM
Lol I did the same thing they said $175 was a promo price and no discounts offered
HTC EVO
guido1205us
03-13-2011, 01:41 AM
I believe he was referring to the Tanabe version.
It would be interesting to see dyno results of the two DP designs though.
I just want the DP and front pre-cat from the kit (also want add a highflow cat) to replace my Stillen (having fitment issues with Tanabe Medallion cat-back) It is a direct knock off of the Tanabe:
http://www.3sx.com/store/catalog/exhaust-tanabe-13-600l.jpg
so if the argument that log style is crap to a Y, then the Tanabe is not as good as say a Stillen/Borla or like. Highly doubt that both Tanabe/Matt can be wrong with log style.
I think I may pick up a kit and sell off the cat back - hard to argue with the price of this full kit vs any other stand alone DP. Could buy the DP direct for $175 or so from CX but they don't include the pre-cat.
Only issue I see is on my Stillen the rear O2 bung is in the upper pipe whereas the Tanabe/knock off its in the lower, main pipe. I wonder if I could use it as as a WB instead and drill a bung into the upper pipe like the Stillen? Or, does the WB need to be farther downstream?
Anybody interested in just the cat-back from this kit?
VR-4 0wnz j00
03-14-2011, 11:33 AM
Ill take the catback, PM sent.
Boomer3000
03-14-2011, 12:29 PM
Probably gonna pm the guy tonight and see if i can get my hands on one for around 200.
YoshiBishi
03-14-2011, 01:54 PM
Gonzo, get your car running so I can hear the exhaust!
DrGonzo
03-14-2011, 02:48 PM
Not yet. I got the 60k done but I didn't finish installing everything back as I had a few other things to install while the engine was apart. I did get the hood painted this weekend so at least the car is all black now. Posting pictures here shortly in my build thread.
Got mine installed yesterday. I absolutely love it. Car sounds so much throatier. Saw a buddy of mine who knows a guy with the real Tanabe exhaust, and he said it sounded pretty much identical. I still have to check how much drone there is at highway speeds with the silencers in. As it is without them, I can't really hear anything over my music anyway, except now I have a reason to run around with no stereo.
Emilie@GZP
03-15-2011, 10:39 AM
We just made 440 awhp on 16T's through this exhaust.
If you want to hear what it sounds like....
http://www.3sgto.org/f2/gzp-16t-spyder-vr4-dyno-results-4122.html
YoshiBishi
03-16-2011, 12:44 PM
Sounds nice, sounds better than my ebay downpipe + stock catback I'm not a huge fan of canister exhausts though :(.
I was hoping to hear Gonzo's in person! I may just go with IPS's quad tip instead. I like the stock look.
DrGonzo
03-16-2011, 02:31 PM
My car is up and running again. Still got a bunch of little things to attend to but for the most part she's running again. I'll be working on it Saturday if you want to swing by.
YoshiBishi
03-16-2011, 02:57 PM
Sounds good, I'll pop by to check it out. I'm going to figure out this suspension rattling on Friday, it is driving me nuts.
zapman2000
03-16-2011, 06:29 PM
well i didn't want to spend 300+ right away for a exhaust but i needed one for my 240sx LE and bought the one that these guys sell and its pretty damn good i paid $130 for catback+test pipe and it came with only one defect which was a hole in the last weld bead were it came to a complete circle was a 30 sec fix for me but that's not bad for the price i paid
it also sounds pretty good i thought at first that it might sound a little to riced out but its really deep and a low loud tone hope fully next pay check ill be buying the VR4 exhaust from them
so i would recommend them to any one else looking for a better priced exhaust
zapman2000
04-29-2011, 07:30 PM
So I got. The one for the vr4 and except that they forgot to ship the mounting bolts it any bolts and gaskets its great for the price
HTC EVO
Asclep
05-04-2011, 06:06 PM
Just purchased one of these. $323 including tax and shipping.
Just purchased a DMH Low Profile 3" electric cut out. Took a while but found a place selling them single:
http://www.byunspeed.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=500
93SlugTT
10-26-2011, 04:40 AM
im buying one of these set-ups this weekend! thank you so much for this big thread, i was about to order a ips and pay for more when this is just as good and sounds great!. it may just on the tad loud side but for the price i will deal with it, but the sound being louder may be due to camera's
thanks again everyone!
TwIzTeD_3kGt
10-26-2011, 09:28 PM
I've been toying with the idea of going back to dual...this seems like a good buy.
I've had it for 2 years and I love it. Not too loud and not too quiet. I don't thinking droning isn't a problem with this either.
green-lantern
11-09-2011, 03:28 PM
Yeah, still loving mine.
CoopKill
11-09-2011, 08:48 PM
Agreed, mine is one of the best things I have done...
000-0000 steel wool does a great job of keeping it nice and new!
Jimvr4
11-09-2011, 11:59 PM
Just checked and it's $395 (buy it now) with another 8.5% tacked on for us CA residents.
93SlugTT
11-10-2011, 01:10 AM
400 for a dual exhaust stainless steel is still a deal
mcjonnyp
11-17-2011, 06:50 PM
one of these things came on my stealth when I bought it. fits ok and sounds pretty good. Not a fan of the tips/mufflers but not enough motivation right now to change them :P
VR-4 0wnz j00
11-18-2011, 12:32 AM
Still waiting for them to go back down but they may never happen. I wont have to buy until next month anyway, so...
DrGonzo
11-18-2011, 06:24 AM
Still waiting for them to go back down but they may never happen. I wont have to buy until next month anyway, so...
I heard from a little bird you were coming back next month!!
Boomer3000
11-18-2011, 05:28 PM
I have seen this exhaust on 2 second gen stealths.. Anybody have a pic with it on a first gen?
mcjonnyp
11-18-2011, 06:39 PM
Ill take a pic of mine tonight and put it up
VR-4 0wnz j00
11-18-2011, 09:21 PM
I heard from a little bird you were coming back next month!!
You heard right! Ive been in Taiwan a little over a year and now I get 3 weeks off to come home. Ive been driving a 125cc motorcycle so Im really excited to drive the VR-4 again! Plus, I bought a bunch of stuff to put on it :D Maybe we can meet up or something, would like to see your car finished in person.
YoshiBishi
11-20-2011, 12:57 PM
What does everyone do to try and make the tips more aligned? I hate the fact that the exhaust isn't perfectly symmetrical.
CoopKill
11-20-2011, 08:27 PM
40 bucks at a local exhaust shop took care of mine!
green-lantern
11-20-2011, 09:23 PM
What does everyone do to try and make the tips more aligned? I hate the fact that the exhaust isn't perfectly symmetrical.
I think they took the V clamp section out because it was a PITMFA to get clamped on correctly (mine was) but it was also a part that helped align the pipes. The new ones I haven't seen it there anymore. The plus of not having it = Don't have to deal with that F-ing V clamp + it can be made cheaper. The negative is obviously the tips don't always line up.
I'd mess with the hangers or put a wood block between the pipe and car then try and jack the other side to bend it straight.
Boomer3000
11-21-2011, 12:04 AM
Still waiting on a pic of the first gen stealth with it... Anybody??
R/T93
11-21-2011, 12:37 AM
This exhaust on a SOHC is incredibly LOUD. Put my car to shame and I have an open dump, lol
green-lantern
11-21-2011, 07:35 AM
This exhaust on a SOHC is incredibly LOUD. Put my car to shame and I have an open dump, lol
I thought about cutting the fart cans off and just running stockish looking tips but I’m a little afraid it would be too loud then.
Unknownvr4
11-21-2011, 11:01 AM
I bought this exhaust as well but im using a ATR downpipe with mine instead of the supplied one. The only issue is the tips not being aligned but so far its money spent well.
bigworm82
11-21-2011, 03:05 PM
This exhaust on a SOHC is incredibly LOUD. Put my car to shame and I have an open dump, lol
:Innocent:
It's not that loud.................
CoopKill
11-21-2011, 03:58 PM
:innocent:
It's not that loud.................
lies!;)
SOHC is louder since they don't have a turbo to muffle the exhaust.
green-lantern
11-21-2011, 07:41 PM
SOHC is louder since they don't have a turbo to muffle the exhaust.
:awesome:
Sorry had to do that :lo5l:
93SlugTT
11-21-2011, 10:23 PM
so how about some more pics of this exhaust on some cars
1g stealth would be a nice one to see it one
Boomer3000
11-22-2011, 12:09 AM
^^ Thank you lol
92 3K
11-22-2011, 10:43 AM
Ill be ordering one of these for my 3000...working on the vr4 swap now so it will help since it comes with the full exhaust.
green-lantern
11-22-2011, 11:17 AM
VR4 swap? are you doing a TT/AWD conversion?
Shadow
12-20-2011, 05:19 AM
I recently bought the downpipe and test pipe from this kit. The downpipe was about 3/8 of a inch short. We had to use a flange off the old downpipe and a extra gasket to make up the difference. Punched out the rear precat and eliminated the front one. Definitely made a improvement! I think my stock muffler internals are shot, It's pretty damn loud! I payed $160 for the dp w/ cat elim and tp. The stock cat is worth some $ so it actually cost me very little to do :D
smoking rr
12-20-2011, 09:35 AM
I might have to jump on this band wagon.
Sent from the bat cave
Boomer3000
12-22-2011, 02:24 AM
no pics of first gen stealths with this yet?
dsmnoob91
12-22-2011, 10:22 AM
http://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/photo.php?fbid=10150473839934274&id=767399273&__user=1474217749
dsmnoob91
12-22-2011, 10:24 AM
http://http://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/photo.php?fbid=10150473839934274&id=767399273&__user=1474217749
DrGonzo
12-22-2011, 10:42 AM
Sorry but you can't link to facebook photo's like that!!
Boomer3000
12-23-2011, 01:45 AM
yea... photobucket it plz
just a quick question here. this is the exhaust right?
3000GT Stealth VR4 GTO Full Catless Downpipe Exhaust | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/3000GT-Stealth-VR4-GTO-Full-Catless-Downpipe-Exhaust-/130483171279?pt=Race_Car_Parts&vxp=mtr&hash=item1e61672fcf)
I'll most likely buy one.
DrGonzo
02-13-2012, 03:22 PM
This is the one that I bought and the seller I purchased it from:
Mitsubishi 3000GT 91-99 VR4 CATBACK TURBO EXHAUST MUFFLERS 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitsubishi-3000GT-91-99-VR4-CATBACK-TURBO-EXHAUST-MUFFLERS-92-93-94-95-96-97-98-/330684866411?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item4cfe5a9f6b#ht_4488wt_905)
I don't know about the other ones.....
This is the one that I bought and the seller I purchased it from:
Mitsubishi 3000GT 91-99 VR4 CATBACK TURBO EXHAUST MUFFLERS 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitsubishi-3000GT-91-99-VR4-CATBACK-TURBO-EXHAUST-MUFFLERS-92-93-94-95-96-97-98-/330684866411?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item4cfe5a9f6b#ht_4488wt_905)
I don't know about the other ones.....
problem is, that seller doesn't offer shipping to Sweden but the other does. Anyways it looks to me like it's the exact same exhaust comparing the pics??
sounds like it to:
Product Description:
Brand new Turbo-back Dual exhaust system for Mitsubishi 3000GT and Dodge Stealth
Increased horsepower and torque
Mandrel Bent and CNC Machined Flange provide a very deep Tone sound
Full 304 stainless steel 2.5" inlet 3" outlet and down pipe with cat less for maximum flow
Replaces the catalytic converter with 3" testpipe
3" inlet and will spilt to 2 x 2.5"inches Dual Catback Eystem with 4" Exhaust Tip with Silencer.
Down pipe removes and replace with a Flex section downpipe and gain more air flow restriction
It will gain 20+ hp after you change this Full Exhaust System
Package comes with 7 pieces included Downpipe, Elbow, Testpipe, Dual Catback Exhaust and both Silencer
Package included bolts and gaskets
This is high quality product that you never seem before. 100% satisfaction guaranteed!
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww248/wegotebay/3000gt%20exhaust/2-3.jpg
Also the cooper813 guy has even better feedback rating than the surewin guy. so I think it should be good quality.
green-lantern
02-13-2012, 07:06 PM
just a quick question here. this is the exhaust right?
3000GT Stealth VR4 GTO Full Catless Downpipe Exhaust | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/3000GT-Stealth-VR4-GTO-Full-Catless-Downpipe-Exhaust-/130483171279?pt=Race_Car_Parts&vxp=mtr&hash=item1e61672fcf)
I'll most likely buy one.
This is the one I have. It has the V band clamp.
The bad, the V clamp SUCKS! it doesn't want to wrap around the flange correctly and pushes the pipes crooked. If you get this one then get it all mocked up on the car and mark it. Then take it off and put the pipes and clamp in a vice so the clamp has to go on correctly.
The good, the mufflers are straight. Seems like everyone that got the other kit has complained that they weren't straight.
DrGonzo
02-13-2012, 07:10 PM
I think it looks pretty good with the slight angle..... :p
green-lantern
02-13-2012, 07:14 PM
I think it looks pretty good with the slight angle..... :p
IDK if I'm just not as picky as you guys are or what but I think I could deal with a slight angle to not have to deal with that f-ing V clamp. lol
DrGonzo
02-13-2012, 07:21 PM
I will say this the angle did look really bad with the first gen stealth bumper. When I switched to the 2nd gen rear bumper it made it less obvious and gives it a nice finishing angle.
Mine was the non V-clamp and one stuck out farther than the other... $60 at a muffler shop and it's all good. I need to make mine all shiny again though... Maybe I'll powdercoat the tips when I swap it to the other car.
smoking rr
02-13-2012, 09:02 PM
I just ordered mine. Now I have to hurty up and wait. :rolleyes:
Sent from the bat cave
Boomer3000
02-13-2012, 09:49 PM
Anybody have pics of this exhaust on a 1st gen stealth?
Vantage
02-13-2012, 09:53 PM
What's the point of the single v-band? Seems kind of random...
smoking rr
02-13-2012, 10:30 PM
I will be putting it on my 91 RT/TT
Sent from the bat cave
Rakuny
02-13-2012, 10:33 PM
hmm.. I ordered mine from Surewinproducts during the summer last year and mine didn't come with a V-band.
Even after reading great things about it everywhere I was still surprised when it fit perfectly.. sure the exhaust tips might not be perfectly lined up but I bolted on a down-pipe, test pipe and catback for <$400 I was more than content.
Oh I was not at all upset about the tips not lining up. For the price I paid if that's the only thing not perfect I'd say it's a damn good deal.
These are the best shots I've got of mine... Wasn't really focusing on the exhaust though
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj537/BIGDK77/100_2814.jpg
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj537/BIGDK77/100_2834.jpg
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj537/BIGDK77/100_2773.jpg
Oh yeah... That's with a year's worth of wear and road grime from DDing it.
Boomer3000
02-14-2012, 12:40 AM
That looks sick!!!!!! I wanna tint my tails but kinda nervous about it. But thanks so much for the post. You have made my decision for me
smoking rr
02-14-2012, 05:59 AM
Just be careful with how dark you go. The prior owner of my car tinted the trail lights so dark that even at might you could barley see them light up even when I stepped on the breaks. So I sanded them down, polished them, and re-painted them. Only I did it a little different.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d03640a2-3e74-4cf0.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d03640a2-3e9b-75cc.jpg
Sent from the bat cave
That's not bad but I liked the idea of my car being all black/white (minus the calipers). Even with 3 thick coats on my tails you can still see the light just fine and there is no hint of red during the day unless the light hits it just right.
smoking rr
02-15-2012, 06:26 AM
I agree. But mine were so bad they had to be fixed. I kind if think the prior owner just used spray paint. Here is a pic before I sanded then down (all black) and after red.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d03640df-9648-1b3e.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d03640df-9670-106c.jpg
Sent from the bat cave
Jimvr4
02-15-2012, 12:37 PM
Looks great !! I did my tails too when I reprayed the whole car.
Before:
http://jns.jimnshar.com/14540a60.jpg
After:
http://jns.jimnshar.com/2b000a80.jpg
Boomer3000
02-15-2012, 10:23 PM
Damn Jim... those look tight. Did you have them done with the actual car paint?
mb3000
02-16-2012, 12:24 AM
Mix in some black with the clear?
Jimvr4
02-16-2012, 12:58 AM
Mix in some black with the clear?
Exactly lol. A good body shop can hook it up.
mb3000
02-16-2012, 01:02 AM
Looked too good for Nightshades :lol:
Boomer3000
02-16-2012, 03:02 PM
Yea I would never use night shade... f that..
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.