First....Now why I reallt made this thread.

[2fnloud]

My passion is car audio, and I have been racking my brain on different levels of audio upgrades ranging from simple speaker replacement to complete upgrades.

I have found and a member from another site pick out a dash replacement speaker and had great things to say about it (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-808%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&FTR=W2-852SH&CFID=1212498&CFTOKEN=45624375).

The person left this message on my visitor page:

"Hey , we just got the two W2-852SH 2" Shielded Drivers mounted and they sound great! We did not have to alter the speakers at all. Just had to make a plastic ring for both of them to mount to the speaker grill to hold them on. Of the 4 bending clips on the grill, two of them matched up perfect with 2 corners of the new speakers. For the plastic ring my wife came up with the idea of cutting a ice breaker mint box, which is round, to make a ring and other than the green color which cant be seen, it made a good mounting ring for the speaker. I will upload pics and post it one day this week. Thanks man, you are the greatest!"

So if anyone would like my input / help / advise on car audio, let me know I love to help.

[sublime_whatigo]

2nd, lol. I know your joking Steve, I absolutely cant stand when people post a reply only to say 1st, 2nd...etc.

Remind me at the bbq for you to tell my buddy Long about those dash speakers, he bought some weird brand and they actually started melting from the sun.

So what are they best bang for you buck speakers these days? Back 8-10 years ago when I was into car audio it was Soundstream and Adire audio for me. I haven't heard many systems to this day with that kind of quality.

[mb7050]

he bought some weird brand and they actually started melting from the sun.


thats funny.

[2fnloud]

2nd, lol. I know your joking Steve, I absolutely cant stand when people post a reply only to say 1st, 2nd...etc.

Remind me at the bbq for you to tell my buddy Long about those dash speakers, he bought some weird brand and they actually started melting from the sun.

So what are they best bang for you buck speakers these days? Back 8-10 years ago when I was into car audio it was Soundstream and Adire audio for me. I haven't heard many systems to this day with that kind of quality.

That will not be a problem. Good brands that can be so subjective and opinion based. With that dash speaker I recommended, it was something I never heard. The specs of the speaker (freq. range, wattage, Ohms) was about a perfect match to use with the factory amp.

I am working with a set of Eclipse 3-ways to be installed in my Stealth. I have the 1.5" mid installed in the dash just not powered. The tweeter will be in the "A" piller and mid-bass in the door (duh right). Problem is Fujistu ten pulled thier funding from Eclipse so once the stock is gone, it's done.

I would look at RF in about a year or two. They recently hired the lead engineer from Diamond Audio, so expect great speakers from them soon.

IF I wasn't so hell bent of 3-way, I would of bought all my speakers from PartsExpress.com.

[mk_]

Tang Band is more of that of a DIY type speaker. Meaning, instead of buying a component set (mid-range/tweeter package) you could kinda put together your own mid-range/high's speakers. I have no experience with Tang Band unfortunately, but haven't necessarily heard anything bad about them. If the specs match what you're looking for, I say go for it.. Doesn't look like they break the bank!

[x2percentmilk]

Tang band is great for the price (so I've heard). Any of you hardcore DIY's should check out Zaph's website http://www.zaphaudio.com
He has MULTIPLE pages ranking drivers and tweeters in the cost/performance area. Not to mention a ton of other good info.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

Hahahahaha 2fnloud you know me well enough for me to laugh at you :p

You do know the lead engineer of Diamond Audio was the lead engineer from JBL (company of Harman Kardon). They wouldn't let him design the kind of speaker he wanted on the market.

Here's the funny part... His name is Bob Diamond (um actual owner of said "Diamond Audio"). Maybe RF got an employee but I doubt they hired Bob :o

And with the Eclipse 3 ways I have always found them very harsh.


Good brands that can be so subjective and opinion based.

But to quote you anyhow!!!!

Good to see you here to 2fnloud

[2fnloud]

Thanks reallyxxxxxxloud,

Glad to see you hear too, will keep my from unintentionally giving bad advice. :)

I totally agree on the "Good Brands" I would always tell a person to listen to them on a soundboard. Granted, that is not how they will sound in the car, but you pick what sounds best to you on the sound board and go from there.

OK, I agree, maybe "A Top Engineer" then.

About the Eclipse 3 ways. Thanks for the heads up. however, I will be using the tweeters from a set of SP6900's and the SC8365's tweeter in the SP6900's. I have more installation options on my "A" pillars with the tweeter pod and tweeter from the SP6900's.

In you professional opinion, would 200 watts continuous be too much for the SC8365's? They are rated at 150 watts continuous, I think I will be safe. Also do you think that 65 watts RMS to the SP6900's will be enough? They are rated at 90 continuous.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

Not not too much at all. I run 300wrms per side to my fronts in my Hilux and they are only rated at 120wrms. I use this theory:

If I was running a sign-wave at 120wrms then yes 300wrms is overkill. But music is not a sign-wave its made up of peaks - this is called a complex wave. In reality a speaker should be rated on the peak watts before it blows or as it should be called "DYNAMIC RANGE" (problem is companies lie about such ratings as there is no true rating system to keep them in check). Imagine a snare drum being hit for a peak of only a split second at 300wrms on a speaker rated at 120wrms - there's not enough time to create serious heat (comparison is a burp of 20,000wrms on a 2000wrms sub in SPL, same thing).

Now its heat that kills a V/C not clipping or overpowering as some think. Its just that hard clipping will produce a heated V/C faster. I always over power all my speakers in any system as this will give nice headroom and nice clean sound in any massive dynamic peak, without clipping the signal (limitations come down to motor and suspension).

As far as the tweeters go you will have a strong up front presence anyhow I'd still be careful because a tweeter is more efficient. Clipping means that the tops of the signal are "clipped off" or "flat-topped" when the signal level is exceeding the maximum capability of the power amplifier or some other piece of equipment in the system.

During the times when a signal is flat-topped, loudspeaker cones are not being "instructed" to move as it is receiving essentially a DC signal. This means all power goes into heating up their voice coils instead of producing sound. In other words, during the times the signal is flat-topped a loudspeaker is 100 percent efficient at converting power into heat.

Ironically, the more efficient the driver, the worse the problem. A horn tweeter (-25 percent efficient) normally converts 75 percent of its input power to heat. During clipping it must convert 25 percent more power to heat.

A cone woofer (-3 percent efficiency) normally converts 97 percent of its input power to heat. During clipping, it has to convert a mere 3 percent more to heat. Now you know why tweeters burn out much more easily.

Hope this helps...

[2fnloud]

Helps Allot, I knew the basics of what you explained. This also makes me feel better about feeding 1200 watt RMS to the four 8" subs that I plan on using. They are the Tang Band W8-1363SB (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-833). They are rated at 120 watts RMS/240 watts max, and in my set up they will be getting 300 watts RMS.

By chance do you use the BassBox6 Pro program?

[sublime_whatigo]

Im sure some things have changed but I always used WinISD for box building. And also on clipping I had a few nice test cd's one was autosound2000 or something. Combine those cd's with an o-scope or a tweeter in a pinch to adjust gains.

[2fnloud]

I have said CD's BassBox is a lil more advanced but cost a pretty penny unless you find a torrent of it :suspect:

I will be getting a basic O-scope or at least one good enough for setting the gains on an amp.

I may have to plug my parameters of my enclosure and driver into WinISD just to see how they compare.

other topic you thing this rain is going to clear out by Saturday?

[sublime_whatigo]

60% chance of scattered showers. Hope we can get in a cruise without rain at least.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

Helps Allot, I knew the basics of what you explained. This also makes me feel better about feeding 1200 watt RMS to the four 8" subs that I plan on using. They are the Tang Band W8-1363SB (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-833). They are rated at 120 watts RMS/240 watts max, and in my set up they will be getting 300 watts RMS.

By chance do you use the BassBox6 Pro program?

Yes but my copy was old and now needs reactivating. I should just download a crack for it!!!

[2fnloud]

Yes but my copy was old and now needs reactivating. I should just download a crack for it!!!

Let me know if you do that, I would really appreciate you take on the enclosure I designed.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

ok cool fixed my problem :) Send me what you need!!!!

[ictponder]

I have deemed this thread as being useful. We always recommend our customers to run twice the recommended peak power to subs/speakers to get optimal sound. Sometimes it can be hard depending on the speakers you're installing. I currently have Alpine Type-X 6.5" all around and it was impossible to find a 4 channel amp that put out more than 150w RMS from Alpine so I had to deal.

A lot of people come in thinking that replacing their speakers first will make their system sound better. They are surprised to learn they will get the opposite effect and that replacing the head unit first is always the best option as it puts out more power, thus making the stock speakers reach full potential.

[2fnloud]

I have heard the x pros in properly sealed and deadened doors, that are incredible!

Thank you for your input Issac.

[2fnloud]

I have deemed this thread as being useful. We always recommend our customers to run twice the recommended peak power to subs/speakers to get optimal sound. Sometimes it can be hard depending on the speakers you're installing. I currently have Alpine Type-X 6.5" all around and it was impossible to find a 4 channel amp that put out more than 150w RMS from Alpine so I had to deal.

A lot of people come in thinking that replacing their speakers first will make their system sound better. They are surprised to learn they will get the opposite effect and that replacing the head unit first is always the best option as it puts out more power, thus making the stock speakers reach full potential.

This is why I combed through the speakers on PartsExpress's website. I haven't personally demoed the TB speaker that I recommended but given the speaker's specs. and the power that the OEM amplifier provides, it was easy to see that it was a good match.

[futurevr4man]

i have always been told that its distortion that kills speakers, not power. so whenever i look into amps, the first thing i look for is the THD (total harmonic distortion) rating of said amp.

i am no speaker genius but a guy i grew up with is. i would like to build a great setup for my car. i can do lows and highs, but i always seem to be lacking mid-range sound and i havent figured out why just yet.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

no it is running the speaker beyond its thermal handling that kills. You can distort the signal as much as you want or clip it as hard as you want as long as the heat in the V/C doesn't get beyond its capability.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

2fnloud I had to redo your box in BB6 let me know if its to big. I've emailed it to you Steven.

[2fnloud]

no it is running the speaker beyond its thermal handling that kills. You can distort the signal as much as you want or clip it as hard as you want as long as the heat in the V/C doesn't get beyond its capability.


I thought the clipped signal just generated heat more than sound? Either way your statement is correct.

I received your E-mail, I am preparing a reply now. My box is 1.91 Cu. Ft. smaller than yours. My E-mail will have a .JPG of all the graphs, many of them are about identical.

I can't thank you enough for your insight.