Why the 2021 Bronco is awesome

[IPD]

https://static.carsdn.co/cldstatic/wp-content/uploads/ford-bronco-2021-oem-12-exterior-off-road-profile-yellow.jpg

Need I say more? Honestly, I don't even know if this is an option, as I don't see it anywhere on their website. But god-damn I want.

[box]

You want a hole in the door?

[IPD]

Those are half doors, as far as I can tell. Think "safari door" but actually made for the vehicle. And the hidden handle is a nice touch.

[j2k4]

Well, I guess we'll just have to grow a jungle/savanna to properly safari around with our new Broncos. ;)

We could do it in every metropolitan area in the US - Chicago, New York and LA come to mind.

St. Louis, too.

[j2k4]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etVB51EgvI8

[IPD]

too bad they don't talk about the half doors. :(

[j2k4]

Thought they did...I like it better than the Wrangler, troo story.

[TT4ME]

I love the Bronco teases, but the hole in the door is MEH. I have tube doors for my 2008 JK and they work, aka open air feel while still feeling mostly safe. Not so sure the Bronco proposed opening is anything similar.

Still a strong Bronco fan here, anxious to see what actually hits the pavement.

[IPD]

I like that it's a proper latching door, handle and all. Not just something someone home cooked in a garage that looks like a wannabee race cage.

I actually like the "peephole" on the McLaren, and even though a half-door isn't quite the same, the finish of it is much better than anything else I've seen...virtually ever.

[stealthee]

I don't like the hole in the door. It looks weird, and that is putting it nicely. I'm honestly not a fan of the entire thing. The original concept looked better (as usual). I think the grill is most of what ruins it for me.

[IPD]

Grille is where I expect there to be a LOT of customization available. Ford itself already has at least 2 or 3 different versions available on different trim levels already. Aftermarket will have even more. And I expect that the "Raptor" or wtf they call it when it comes out in a few years will probably have YET ANOTHER type of grille.

Honestly, the only things I'm really not liking about the Bronco is that the 2 door doesn't have doors you can store in the back, the process to remove some parts like doors is a bit more cumbersome than I'd really like it to be, and the wheelbase is a bit longer than I really want. However, if 2-door "Raptor Bronco" does truly have the ability to fit 37's and comes with a 3.5L ecoboost with 400+ hp, it will be in a niche all it's own, and I will covet one in unspeakable ways.

p.s.
Near as I have heard, the half doors are merely another customization option--one not yet definitively outlined. So you're not required to have them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdZaw_OxkLM

[IPD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax8Cy6zDvvw

Honestly, the more I learn about it, the more I really want one. Again, only minor quibbling about the design:

-Sure, the wheelbase is a few inches longer than I'd want.
-And they could have found a way to make some quick-release levers for the doors instead of bolts.
-And suicide half doors would have allowed the shorter, main doors to be stored in the back--doors which could have been the same size as the ones on the 4-door.
-And the interior roof spars are not going to allow much of a "Fastback" look even with some kind of soft-top offering eventually coming.
-Removable fenders are a nice touch, but I'd rather see their lines integrated more into the bodywork, rather than being a clear "stuck on" piece--I think the sheet metal needs to bulge outward on the wheel arches a bit more.
-I get that they're paying homage to the 1g Bronco--but that's where you get memes like this:

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/attachments/screen-shot-2020-07-15-at-2-06-31-pm-png.89924/
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/attachments/ford_scoutii-png.89877/

...I'd really love to see a modern, all-LED, hyper-aggressive, "pissed-off/angry-eyes" and shark fangs grill...rather than the "everyone had round headlights and a boring front fascia in the 60's" look.

But the aftermarket community will EXPLODE with support for this vehicle. With the Sasquatch package, it's virtually identical or better in every category than the Rubicon--and has better road manners because of the IFS. And at the end of the day, if I get automatic 4WD (which the top trims have), a turn radius ~35' and 400+ hp....I will have died and gone to heaven. They are only available in ecoboost varieties...which means that aftermarket support to get something like 500 4WD hp out of it will be happening within the first year--and possibly sooner if we're talking 3.5L.

---

Can you imagine? 1 vehicle that will:

-run over sand dunes at 70 mph+
-rock crawl with the best Jeep offerings
-do 0-60 at a stoplight in the 4.5-5.5 second range (the 2020 F150 Supercab Raptor does 5.5, but less curb weight + bigger tires = ?)

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

[j2k4]

Carlos, you want to kill the aftermarket?

Edit:

I mean in the sense that if is were that good off the lot, the aftermarket would begin in the stratosphere and hence be more narrow than broad.

[TT4ME]

I know you're not one for manuals, but having the larger engine with one would be nice. The 5.0 coyote would be dynamite. A 392 wrangler has been teased but I don't expect it to actually hit the market.

The best feature for my tall ass is the roll cage design. There is nothing above the front row seats, unlimited head room. If I ever get rear ended in my Jeep, I do not want to see the result. I hit the roll cage almost every time I drive it.

[IPD]

Oh the 392 will def hit the market, because Jeep has just been caught with their pants down, and they have a LOT of catching up to do. It's a stopgap to keep people interested while they panic to catch up.

I'd wager there's about a 0.01% chance this ever comes with a v8. The 3.5 ecoboost is the superior engine. In the raptor (which is what i'd expect to have for this as well), the 3.5 is rated at 450hp and 510tq vs the 395hp/400tq on the 5.0 Coyote. IMHO, the argument for a V8 is identical for the argument for a SFA; purists who insist upon it. Because apart from exhaust note and Luddites fearful of forced induction...there's virtually no compelling reason for the 5.0 over the 3.5 EB.

https://www.autobytel.com/trucks/car-buying-guides/ford-f-150-engine-comparison-3-5-ecoboost-vs-5-0-v8-133283/

Personally, I only think the manual option needs to be in this vehicle for the purists who wouldn't ever consider the Bronco without one. It will be piss easy in the future to cannibalize the 10 speed in favor of the 6 speed--I wouldn't worry about that in the least. There will always be people who insist on rowing gears no matter what--and there will always be aftermarket support for them. It will be far, far, FAR cry from trying to get 3/s support for an AWD AT. Either engine swaps will be common or trans swaps will be--but either way, the MT die-hards will be kept happy. I guarantee you that if the tables were turned and the AT was only on the base engine, nobody would give a flying fuck about offering to pair the AT with the more powerful engine. Gotta love the hypocrisy.

And it's really only something for people who only want to rock crawl with it. There's a reason why Rally Fighter has been using an AT since birth--they are much better suited to flying through unpaved terrain at high speeds. And that's what I want it for--off-road speeds that would be illegal on pavement.

[TT4ME]

Those numbers seem a bit outdated, or are for the truck version? The current Mustang GT is 460hp/420tq. The Bullitt bumps that to 480hp. Still similar to the 3.5 ecoboost, but the power band is more desirable.

[IPD]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_EcoBoost_engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine

Apart from the 1g GT, the GT500, and the FPV Falcon GT-F (all of which are supercharged V8's) and the GT350--the output on the current Raptor is higher than any v8's in the lineup--both hp and tq wise (Falcon and Bullitt have marginally higher hp). Must be some reason why the 2g GT is now a 3.5 Ecoboost as well (647hp/550tq)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_(sixth_generation)

For the current Mustang:

GT500: 760hp @ 7,300 rpm / 625 @ 5,000 rpm

GT350: 526hp @ 7,500 rpm / 429 @ 4,750 rpm

Bullitt: 480hp @ 7,000 rpm / 420 @ 4,600 rpm

and the F-150 Raptor: 450hp @ 5,000 / 510tq @ 3500 rpm

---

Call me crazy, but--especially on an off-road vehicle--why would having 90 more torque at 1100 lower rpms (+ 30 less hp but at 2,000 lower rpms) be a bad thing? That powerband is much more desirable, imho.

[TT4ME]

Numbers at 1000-3000 rpm are more important. I'd be curious to see that comparison :Banana:

[stealthee]

Yeah. Peak horsepower is nothing more than a bragging number. Usable horsepower and average horsepower are what matter.

[IPD]

That's my point. The 3.5 EB appears by every measure (at least the ones I can readily google) to make its power lower in the rpm band. The fact that turbos make aftermarket modding easier than trying to mod a high-compression-ratio NA is just icing on the cake.

[IPD]

Best comparison I could find in a quick search:

https://fordauthority.com/2020/01/whats-faster-a-tuned-ecoboost-f-150-or-tuned-coyote-f-150-video/

[j2k4]

Brian, Carlos has invited you and Dave to call him crazy - please get this done before you go any further. ;)

[IPD]

I can say that twin-scroll turbos seem to be the wave of the future for turbocharging, and Ford has won praise for the I4's using this technology.

*edit* I had thought about how a reverse flow V6 like Audi/BMW have might be a good twin-scroll solution as well. But I think the engineering principle is probably a bit more complex and has to do with the degrees of spacing between exhaust charges and that's where the merits of single-bank-fed turbos vs. dual-bank-fed turbos are a bit foggy in my understanding.

God forbid Ford ever puts this technology in a successor to the Coyote (GM already has this on the Cadillac 4.2L Blackwing v8--a variant of which I hope makes its way to the c8).

https://media.cadillac.com/media/us/en/cadillac/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2018/mar/0321-twin-turbo-v8.html
https://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/Forced_Induction_4.html

And this is the dream. The perfect turbocharging solution:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J06nj5-B_AE

[IPD]

*thread hijack* *puts on armchair engineer wizarding hat*

Ok, so I've been reading up on it a bit more. "Hot V" V6 engines aren't really a thing in mass production at present, but yes--they benefit from the same twin-scroll tech. The gist is that every single-crankshaft engine has the same degrees of rotation for a complete cycle (720); but that this is divided by the number of cylinders in the engine.

https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/twin-scroll-vs-single-scroll-turbo-test-the-great-divide/

By using twin turbos (like the 6g72's traditional layout), the degrees of exhaust charge spacing is essentially doubled (from 120 on NA to 240 with twin-turbos). A single twin-scroll turbo then can be thought of as mimicking the effect of twin turbos in a single turbo--because it spaces out the exhaust charges identically to how twin turbos would. That so whereas a N/A v8 would separate exhaust charges by 90 degrees, a conventional twin turbo setup doubles this to 180. And a twin-scoll, twin-turbo v8 setup doubles this again to 360. Application of this same principle to a V6 would result in a twin-scroll, twin turbo exhaust charge separation of 480.

Now as to where the delta-P sweet spot is with regards to spacing between exhaust charges & maximizing scavenging via said pressure differential--that I'll leave to someone with an engineering degree. Although effectiveness of this likely varies a bit with RPM, manifold/exhaust sizing, and engine displacement...there is probably a point of diminishing returns where we can say that > x-number of spacing that there is little benefit (or negative benefit). For example, a twin-turbo, twin-scroll I4 would literally have 720 spacing on exhaust charges--which probably defeats any scavenging effect (though I cannot say with certainty).

Alternately, modifying the size of piping to produce more rapid scavenging could be paired with a commensurate change in the sizing of a turbo. Think of how a G672 would benefit by having the effective charge of a 9b on both sides twin-scroll (not a split 9b housing, but rather 9b CFM rate on both sides of an indeterminate sized twin-scroll). This would keep low-end response while greatly improving high-end capability. What if (hypothetically) we could modify two 16g into a twin scroll and we had a 6G72 hot-v engine. We could--theoretically--spool those 16gs hundreds of RPM lower--greatly reducing turbo lag (see article above).

So whereas the conventional wisdom has been a choice between spool speed and top-end capability; twin scroll largely allows for a big(er) turbo while still keeping civilized low-end RPM spool (300-400 rpm lower in their tested setup). The days of simply slapping any old manifold and some turbos on and calling it "good enough"---those are coming to an end. I'm glad that engineering has kept moving forward.

[j2k4]

I already don't have enough money to go nuts with my Stealth....

[ngarry243]

Looks unusual, but it looks like a crisis of ideas...:hypnotysed:

[j2k4]

Kinda like a 3S - which is why we're all here.

Welcome to the Inner Circle of Heck.

[IPD]

Be advised. The following is not for delicate eyes, purist fanbois, or the faint of heart:



Ok. You F**king, #@$%$%#, F##k a$$, c0cksuking, F%%ks.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ford-bronco-sasquatch-manual/

This shit is pissing me the hell off. Manual fanbois whined about not being able to get the Sasquatch trim option with a stick shift, and Ford caved. What in the everliving fcuk!!!???!!! Butthurt whiney pursists complaining about how "there's no manual options on the market!!11!!!" So now they have one. Some are STILL pissed that there's no 2.7L option with the MT. Primadonna, ungrateful fcuks.

Let me explain something to you soulless, ungrateful, forgetful, primadonna assclowns. I have lived FOR MY ENTIRE LIFE without the OPTION of even having an AT on most things I want. Viper? GFY. Z06? GFY (before 2015). Countach? GFY. 3000GT? "In its most extreme form, the 3000GT isn't available in Automatic; that would be like flying a fighter jet on auto-pilot." AND THE LIST GOES ON AD INFINITUM.

Worse? GONE are the days of cars that I really, REALLY liked. Styling has all died on the altar of crash-tests, EPA compliance, fuel economy, pedestrian safety, etc. And color options that used to be EPIC (e.g. Statutory Grape, Amethyst Pearl, Go Mango, SubLime, etc)--these are all but gone except in a few, rare cases (e.g. Challenger/Camaro/Mustang/911). 80%+ of new cars are sold in white, black, grey and silver. B.O.R.I.N.G. And now that AT's are the new de-facto standard--the whiny butthurt purists are crying foul that they aren't being catered to. Well those "purists" can go fornicate themselves with a carbide-tipped, serrated dildo. You STILL have the option of MT on the "good" cars that had a soul. F right off.

Worse? AWD being treated as an afterthought. A Hellcat AWD challenger sounds awesome...but oh wait, only available in RWD. FUCK!

Worse? MT purists will not even pony up in enough #'s to justify the expense, R&D, crash testing, certification, etc--to merit the expense of developing a MT option...and the estimated take on the MT option for the Bronco (even with a Sasquatch) will probably be ~10%. That's a MASSIVELY outsized, whiny butthurt voice that a miniscule contingent of the automotive consumer segment has. That would be bad enough if the TAKE RATE REMAINS ABYSMAL AS IT UNDOUBTEDLY WILL. But it's also spitting into the wind on MPG standards, acceleration times, overall performance, etc.

I have lived through DECADES of MT fanbois dominating the car market. AT fans didn't even have an OPTION half the time--and the other half the time, 90% of that option was a "lesser or less capable" version. Shoe's on the other foot. Choke on it, you donkey-loving heathens. NOBODY cared about us. NOBODY gave 2 shits about the AT guys and how we languished in the mire of indifference for auto manufacturers. WE (the AT guys) didn't have the voice the MT bitch-whores do. Not only did the MFG's ignore us, the MT guys PLAYED WHITE MUTHERFUCKIGN KNIGHTS and loudly shouted us down. So we never even got the light of day. And this went on for DECADES.

Well IT'S ABOUT FUCKING TIME that halo cars don't cater to the MT fanbois; ya'll fucks deserve it for the HELL you've made us AT guys live through. I don't care that you can't get a GT500 mustang in MT--go fuck a duck. Go buy a GT350 and cry yourself to sleep; because nobody else is shedding tears for the hell-hole that you are ONLY JUST NOW BEGINNING TO CONCEPTUALLY GRASP THE DEPTH OF. You are now experiencing but a taste of the abject void that the AT guys have been languishing under hitherto.

I hope to god that the Bronco Warthog/Raptor DON'T OFFER ANY MT OPTION. You don't deserve it. Go aftermarket jury-rig that shite if you want. At least there's SOME modicum of purists who will help you in that. NOBODY BUT NOBODY was willing to aftermarket concoct AT solutions for my crowd. Even on the 3/s platform, about 90% of my brethren would mock me for not just buying a VR4 to begin with. Well ya'll MT fans need to experience some PAIN....and this is just a taste. Ford kowtowing you guys is irritating the snot out of me; not because I don't think MT should be an option at all....but because as a matter of PRINCIPLE, you heathens shouldn't even have a choice. That's the anguish you have made us AT guys live with. #NOSYMPATHY.

[stealthee]

I think I think the only one here that's butthurt is you.

[IPD]

I'm also the only one here who cares about the Bronco...let alone probably the only one besides you who pays attention to this thread.

p.s.
did the 3/s community just give in and go back to the AF hell of 3sdie?

pps

and yes...you're damn right i'm peeved. and i wouldn't expect you or most people here to understand. the concept of "not having one's choice of transmission" in automotive land is a fairly new concept for the purists. and rather overdue, imho.

[j2k4]

I'm also the only one here who cares about the Bronco...let alone probably the only one besides you who pays attention to this thread.

p.s.
did the 3/s community just give in and go back to the AF hell of 3sdie?

pps

and yes...you're damn right i'm peeved. and i wouldn't expect you or most people here to understand. the concept of "not having one's choice of transmission" in automotive land is a fairly new concept for the purists. and rather overdue, imho.

Kudos to you, Carlos, for avoiding capitalization as a means of communicating your pique.

Here is my suggestion:

Market the Bronco as a Bronco, not a Ford.

Treat and advertise it as a niche vehicle and let name-recognition and marketing do the rest.

There...all better.

[TT4ME]

I'm one of the guys that wanted an mt with sasquatch

Uh oh, runs away :runaway:

[B-Line]

Excited to see how the Bronco performs. Not against a MT either.

[IPD]

it's funny. the 4g broncos with the AT were used for off-roading and ran just fine. So apart from the crawler gear being a tad higher ratio...I don't really get the appeal of the MT. Even the Bronco R has an AT...just like the Rally Fighter uses an AT. And that's what I would be using mine for; 70 mph runs off road.

[j2k4]

Uh-oh - the Bronco has some competition!

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33289987/2021-chevrolet-trailblazer-by-the-numbers/

[IPD]

It's altogether laughable, pitiable and totally understandable why Chevy went that route....since on-road SUV's are the only thing people seem to care about these days.

My dream is that Isuzu teams up with Suzuki to bring the Jimny chassis to the USA as a reborn vehiCross; complete with drop-top, removable doors, locking differentials, etc. (i.e. the compact 1g Bronco that Ford SHOULD have built for the 2-door)

Of course, this is about as likely as Mitsubishi actually making another GTO, but at least I can dream.

[anyonebutme]

I love the Jimny. Half the price, half the length, twice the tippiness, lol. Only thing better would be owning a 2 stoke Jimny...

[IPD]

except....it's not rollover prone. Consumer Reports lied through their teeth about it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3sGkP8HeBY

[IPD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZBh3zxxOqw&pp=QAA%3D

Isuzu and Mitsubishi also got burned on CR lying their asses off. It cannot possibly be a coincidence that ALL THREE of these brands are now mere footnotes in the USDM market; 2 are gone entirely, and Mitsubishi is comatose and on life support....struggling so bad that they made the ECLIPSE into a CROSSOVER SUV.

CR deserves to DIAF and everyone who worked in/on/around these stories should serving life sentences--as there's no amount of financial recoupment that can assuage the mental anguish and suffering of consumers who were/are forced to live without 2 VERY reputable off-road brands...and allowing Jeep a virtual HAMMERLOCK on the market (especially for 2 door). Naturally, this also means price gouging. THE ENTIRE COUNTRY has suffered as a result of CR's underhanded, unscrupulous tactics. And we now have OVER 2 DECADES of vehicles getting so progressively bigger and bigger that they WON'T EVEN FIT IN YOUR GARAGE!!!

...and the only offerings which show that good things come in small packages and can still PWN off-road...aren't here for you or I to enjoy.

[anyonebutme]

Ummm, you do know the Samurai and Jimny are not the same vehicle.... The Jimny is a bit bigger with a better suspension, and more importantly wasn't sold here.

Funny story, I rolled a Samurai twice, but it was offroad so I don't think that counts, lol.

[IPD]

Um....wat?

Are you thinking of the Sidekick/Tracker? Because the Jimny and the Samurai are literally the same vehicle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Jimny

[j2k4]

Annnnnnnnnd off the rails it goes...:biggrin:

[j2k4]

Let me say this, Carlos-

What you describe is the perfect vehicle for yourself, and others may agree or quibble, but your preference is the same as everyone's insofar as it reflects your exact spec.

ONE (the best one, of course) transmission.

ONE engine (turboed, natch).

Etc.

Etc., etc.

How many will you sell, and how many sales will you miss?

That's what the aftermarket is for, so let THAT flourish...;)

[IPD]

It shouldn't NEED an aftermarket. Historical trends in car sales indicate:

-That 2-door SUV's are desirable among the off-road community, but aren't as strong sellers as 4-door varieties (which probably see far less off-road time)

-That there is a market for high-power, off road vehicles. The Raptor, Trackhawk, TRX, and even the Rally Fighter...all attest to this. (but these are mostly all 4-door varieties, due to paranoia about volume sales)

-That 2-door sports cars will always outsell their 4-door brethren--even when accounting for price and performance. (they are sleeker and sexier after all)

---

So put that all together, and it spells out a pretty clear idea. Make a sexy sports car with 500+ hp & torque, ladder-frame chassis, and a suspension that is competition-ready for baja. Now consumers don't have to pick whether they want something for stoplight-to-stoplight OR something to go desert running. And now consumers don't have to worry about reliability....because they lifted their vehicle to high heaven...or added ungodly amounts of boost just to get it to minimally-acceptable performance levels.

Ford already has all the pieces they need. They just need to put that 3.5L in...and aim for a more sports-car look (removable doors + removable roof = Exocet inspiration?) Nobody who is already willing to plunk $50,000 on an optioned, sasquatch Bronco is going to say "no, I'd hate more HP and the ability to do stoplight runs". Heck, that's practically what mud-bogging is all about anyways...so now you have class-3, competition ready vehicle.

I'm not seeing the lack of demand here.

[j2k4]

Okay, I buy all that, but specificity will do you out of some sales no matter how good the product is; the people in the board-room run the show, and they want every sale possible.

Drive-train/finish options are required, however bespoke the rest of the vehicle might be.

Reality regretfully intrudes.

[anyonebutme]

Um....wat?

Are you thinking of the Sidekick/Tracker?

Probably, I know one had coil springs and the other had leafs. Could have been a generational thing, as they were not the same year.

[IPD]

since we're derailed anyways....

I used to think the 3/s had the most beautiful exterior lines of any car ever. I'm not 100% sure of that anymore. Because yesterday, I discovered the DeTomaso P72:

https://i.redd.it/vxu5l26atoi31.jpg
https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/1000/0/uploads/media/2019-10/29/d92ab4cabc022a45/de-tomaso-p72-rear-top.jpg

Granted, the interior is puke.

https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/de-tomaso-p72_100706847_h.jpg

It desperately wants to be a mashup of Pagani and Spyker...and I'm not the only one who thinks so, although I disagree with their take that it's a ripoff of the P4/5 on the outside; similar, but still quite distinct.

https://carbuzz.com/news/someone-is-accusing-de-tomaso-of-stealing-their-design

Should have gone with Lexus SC500 theming on the inside instead. Something more "organic" and "fluid" feeling...to match the outside.

https://2qibqm39xjt6q46gf1rwo2g1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/11661635_web1_M-2018_Lexus_LC_500_interior.jpg

[j2k4]

Would make a good Bronco.

[TT4ME]

The build & price pages are live. Looks like the mansquatch option will wait until model year #2.

[IPD]

zero sympathy from me for the mansquatch people. when the take rate on manuals for virtually EVERY vehicle they've been offered in--has been <15%--CONSISTENTLY (and in some cases <10%)--for several years...it's time to put up or shut up. And from what I see, the boat-rowers all want used vehicles to cater to their whims....but are not the demographic that is making new vehicle purchases.

Time to shit or get off the pot. Or in this case; pony up MSRP or adapt to the fact that purists are a dying out and that only older vehicles will have what you want.

p.s.
Toyota listed the manual take rate on the civic at 1%. It was 5% on the tacoma. Consumer demand is what drives supply.

[TT4ME]

I'm well aware that mainstream American sheep like automatics. Good for them.

IPD, as a guy seemingly trying to be different from the norm in every aspect, your love for automatics is confusing.

[j2k4]

The 'breakthrough' Bronco will be electric, so Carlos is gonna get his way by default.

AOC and her like will ensure we have no gas-powered vehicles pretty quick.

Vote wisely...


Edit:

Dave, it's a proven fact Purple People prefer automatics.

[IPD]

I'm well aware that mainstream American sheep like automatics. Good for them.

IPD, as a guy seemingly trying to be different from the norm in every aspect, your love for automatics is confusing.

It's not about "apart from the norm". This has everything to do with technology. Rowing gears is the automotive equivalent of renting VHS from blockbuster. Might have been great bitd. Sure as hell isn't the best or most efficient today. I wouldn't call people "sheep" just because they prefer faster shifts, quicker response, better fuel economy, quicker acceleration, etc, etc, etc.

[TT4ME]

Ok, let's go with technology. The Bronco is debuting with (dinosaur)gas engines. No word on EPA ratings yet, but I'm curious where they will land.

The Wrangler has a hybrid coming in a couple months with a full electric likely for 2022.

Automotive progression is happening quickly. It's great to see, lots of awesome vehicles appear to be coming soon.

[IPD]

Jeep is also "promising" a v8; because pantsed.

Nothing wrong with a full electric vehicle. Still don't know that I'd want to go on the back 40 of Moab with one. At least I can still pour dino juice in my Vx if I run dry--30 miles from the closest plug station.

Though I suppose the ghetto rig solution would be to carry a generator on the trails, just in case. :p

[anyonebutme]

Yea, but we all know 99.9% of both jeep and bronco owners closest call with a trail is a pothole.

[TT4ME]

Yea, but we all know 99.9% of both jeep and bronco owners closest call with a trail is a pothole.

It's travelling in substantial snow that has me looking at this segment. It's funny though, watching the forums and noting the number of idiots that use 4wd any time it snows... My Jeep in 2wd is 13x more capable than my Mazda6.

The car I hated the most in snow was my 2007 Subaru Impreza. If you had throttle applied it would push the front end into the curb around any corner. Symmetrical 4wd is dumb for snow.

[IPD]

I wouldn't know what it's like to "use 4wd any time it snows"....as I don't buy crappy part-time 4wd vehicles. True 4wd or go home.

[stealthee]

I haven't owned a 4WD or AWD vehicle since my TSI. I get around perfectly fine with winter treads and sometimes even just all seasons.

[j2k4]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NUQdeO03XE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eiszpuVpy4

[IPD]

Poor Doug couldn't get one with an engine. Not that it would matter. When he reviewed the VX, he didn't even take it off road once...so his "review" of a Bronco would be balls worthless anyways.