aws delete write up

[shmoo]

i'm looking for a decent write up for an aws delete.

i know there are a few pictures on 3sx,

also, i'm planning on doing this on jack stands. am i being silly?

let me know if anyone has a detailed write up with pictures, or if someone can really walk me through this.

thanks

[OhioSpyderman]

Isaiah (sp),

I don't have pictures (sorry), and I didn't actually do the work (my two oldest son's did), but I CAN tell you they did this using jack stands and two jacks.
Once you get the subframe down, the actual delete is fairly simple.
We DID use the AWS delete kit from 3SX....

Bob.

Just found this...He does some great 3S videos...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWh-2BinAOs

[anyonebutme]

Should be a few writeups on 3si, including how to build your own kit from parts from speedway motors. I built my own kit, and to make the plugs for the lines I cut off the ends of the hose, welded them shut, then installed them on the lines coming from the steering rack.

https://flic.kr/p/XnuvbX

https://flic.kr/p/XkvNWY

https://flic.kr/p/XkvPSf

[shmoo]

Isaiah (sp),

I don't have pictures (sorry), and I didn't actually do the work (my two oldest son's did), but I CAN tell you they did this using jack stands and two jacks.
Once you get the subframe down, the actual delete is fairly simple.
We DID use the AWS delete kit from 3SX....

Bob.

Just found this...He does some great 3S videos...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWh-2BinAOs


my name is spelled isiah, and i don't mind that you spelled it wrong

and that guy's video is great.. i feel much better, thanks for posting it bob



Should be a few writeups on 3si, including how to build your own kit from parts from speedway motors. I built my own kit, and to make the plugs for the lines I cut off the ends of the hose, welded them shut, then installed them on the lines coming from the steering rack.

https://flic.kr/p/XnuvbX

https://flic.kr/p/XkvNWY

https://flic.kr/p/XkvPSf

chris is it? sorry i should know your name..

i sadly don't know how to use 3si anymore... i spent 30 minutes trying to figure out how to send a private message and gave up..

i actually have the majority of the 3sx kit, so i'm hoping it won't have to reuse amy of the stock components.

something about the power steering reservoir though, or is that what you are talking about?

i've only jacked the car up thus far, so i'm sure i'll post up if i have more questions.

thank you

[anyonebutme]

Yes Chris is correct. There's 4 fluid lines going front to back. 2 of them are high pressure and 2 of them are low pressure. IIRC (don't take my word for it but look it up) the driver side lines are low pressure and just lead to the reservoir and can just be looped with a piece of hose at the reservoir and the rest of it deleted. The passenger side are high pressure lines and that's what I have shown in the pics and my way of capping them easily if you have a buddy that can weld and your hose ends are in decent shape.

High pressure side:
https://flic.kr/p/XnuSBT

3SX kit may require capping at the rack itself which may or may not be easy to get to, I don't remember.

The important bit of the kit is those smaller links in my pics that lock the toe adjustment. It's all off-the-shelf stuff so if you're missing anything it's easy to get what's missing, only thing specialty in the 3SX kit is the high pressure line blockoffs.

[95gto]

You are correct Chris, the high pressure lines come out of the rack on the passenger side. The 3sx kit comes with plugs that you install into the rack in place of the lines. Getting the lines out can be a pain but iirc it isn't hard to install the plugs.

Another option with respect to the reservoir is to replace it with one from a fwd car. Then you don't have any extra outlets to worry about.

[anyonebutme]

But if you do the FWD reservoir mod, you lose the low PS fluid light IIRC. Not like the whining pump won't also work as a low fluid level sensor, lol.

[95gto]

But if you do the FWD reservoir mod, you lose the low PS fluid light IIRC. Not like the whining pump won't also work as a low fluid level sensor, lol.

I don't remember if the awd cap fits the fwd reservoir or not.

[stealthee]

The cap is different from awd and fed but the cap from a dsm is the same.

[shmoo]

i haven't touched anything yet..

without deleting the whole thing.. is there anyway i can just stop the fluid from going to the rear?

[OhioSpyderman]

Isiah,
It's been a while, and I have to admit, I did NOT watch that video, but if I recall correctly, part of the deletion process is to use a hose to tie the feed back into the return, thereby elimination fluid flow to the rear rack.

Bob.

[shmoo]

^^ yes, right at the reservoir i thought. so, it should be reasonable to just connect the two ports together.

any other takers?

[shmoo]

is it the two ports on the back of the power steering reservoir that need to be capped? is that all i need to do to keep the fluid from the rear wheel steering system? is that safe as can be?

thanks

[95gto]

Here is 3SX's guide for using their kit:
https://www.3sx.com/install-3sx-aws-delete-rear-steering-elimination-kit

It discusses how to address plugging the lines coming off the rack and pinion and how to deal with the reservoir. Take a look and let us know if you have additional questions.

[95gto]

is it the two ports on the back of the power steering reservoir that need to be capped? is that all i need to do to keep the fluid from the rear wheel steering system? is that safe as can be?

thanks

No, there are four lines going to the back of the car for the aws system. 2 lines come off the reservoir (low pressure) and 2 lines come off the rack and pinion (high pressure). You have to plug the high pressure lines and either loop back the reservoir lines or swap in a FWD reservoir.

[shmoo]

^^ thank you

[shmoo]

some of 3sx's pictures aren't doing it for me. really both of the pictures that i need to understand are not clear to me. i'll climb under the car and try to get some clarity.

[shmoo]

for the emergency brake:

according to the video i need to disconnect the two brake lines under the center console. i did that.

according to the 3sx walk through, i need to disconnect the brake cable line brackets.

question: what/where All do i need to disconnect the e brake?

thank you

ediT: so, for the e brake, it was just the two brackets at the aft of the driveshaft tunnel, and the fitting under the center console.

[shmoo]

chris, what did you use to solidify your rear subframe bushings, and what do you think about it after driving the car again?

[anyonebutme]

I welded large washers to the frame and bushing pins. Don't do this to a street car, a solid mounted diff whines constantly while moving. Poly bushings are pushing it honestly, there's no real benefit unless you have a clearance issue like the 3SX sway bar hitting the driveshaft and car underbody and I needed make sure NOTHING moved in addition to beating the fuck out if the car for it to fit. At that point I also decided since I'm this far I was going to space the subframe upwards for suspension geometry fix.

[shmoo]

oh dear..

i have a 1 piece drive shaft already installed, and am considering installing this 3sx rear sway bar while i have the subframe out.

i don't want the car to solid mount rattle.

should i have issues with the 3sx rear sway bar and one piece driveshaft? can i figure this out before i reinstall this subframe with new sway bar?

thanks..

ediT:

for the front, it seems like i should pick up some alan headed bolts, and bend the brackets.

for the rear, i haven't seen any instruction yet.

am i reading too much into everything like i was the subframe removal? should i just take my time and shim/grind as necessary and maybe be mostly fine?

[anyonebutme]

Depends on when you bought the rear bar. 3SX said they fixed the design, I don't know. I do know they didn't replace the bars for the people who had the ones that didn't fit. You just have to install it, and see if the bar hits the car at suspension droop, and hits driveshaft at suspension compression when the diff is loaded upwards like during a launch. This is important because that's why there were 2 carbon driveshaft blown up at NG. Diff pinion rotates up under throttle, so at full suspension compression you need like a half inch minimum space from driveshaft to sway bar. Also make sure the bar end links don't hit the axle bolts in the rear , that was also a thing.

I can tell you where to look for issues, but yes, it's just a "you gotta just do it" thing. It may require putting the subframe in and out a few times, there is no shortcut.

[shmoo]

should the hardware that came with the bar suffice for the rear sway bar?

thanks

[anyonebutme]

IF you have the new bar, I have no idea. IF you have the old bar you either have to make new end links, shorten the end links that came with the kit, or possibly use OEM end links. You then may have to shim the mounts upwards if it's close to the driveshaft, and then beat the bottom of the car with a large hammer until the bar stops banging the bottom of the car as you drive. Front bar I had to add washers to the end links to stop it from binding on the control arm, then swapped end link to the outside to remove the washers, which softens the front bar a tad:

https://flic.kr/p/YoPE5V


Take note in this picture I can't install the axle bolts because the end link is in the way:

https://flic.kr/p/YmgxEN

Take note in this picture the odd angle of the end link because the bar end does not meet where the end link is supposed to be:

https://flic.kr/p/YmgxTo

Take note in this picture I do not have the shims in the mounts to clear the carbon shaft, yet it still hit the car body in front of the diff:

https://flic.kr/p/Xnux6P

In these pictures you can see how far I had to bash the bottom of the car to clear the bar:

https://flic.kr/p/XnuSg2

https://flic.kr/p/XnuS6n

[shmoo]

i feel like i have too much hardware for the aws delete. specifically too many nuts.

i can understand using a nut underneath where i should have to use a 1/2 drill bit on the sub frame, but do i also need a nut for the inboard of the subframe, where the bolts actually thread into the subframe where the rear rack bolted in?

[anyonebutme]

That's a question for 3SX

[shmoo]

yeah, looking at ray's kit.. he does not have the extra two nuts pictured, and he's also got some nice tapered looking washers. what type of washers did you use?

3sx's kit only has plain washers..

[anyonebutme]

High misalignment bushings, so probably those tapered washer things you're talking about that are on both sides of the rod end.

[shmoo]

thank you again..

[shmoo]

what are you using for the end links for your rear sway bar?9776

something like what is pictured in my attachment?

whatever it is, it doesn't look stock.

i've got the thing bolted up with stock end links, and it just doesn't sit quite right.. maybe...

[anyonebutme]

I posted pictures of my end links above, if it physically bolted together it's an improvement than what they shipped me.

[shmoo]

thanks^

[shmoo]

alright, i bolted the rear subframe up and took it back down tonight.

the carbon driveshaft hits the rear sway bar.

shall i shim the subframe so it sits an inch lower? which seems ridiculous as i'll have to somehow add threads (length) to all four mounts?

or maybe start by attempting to shim the sway bar up from the subframe?.. it seems like the sway bar has about an inch and a half of space from the body..

and you said i need half an inch of space with the car up?

the forward subframe mount "look" like they'll be easy to shim downwards, however the rears do not..

it seems like you shimmed the mounts, but you said to raise the subframe. i think i want to lower mine. tips and specific turkeys?

and i ran out of beer. the night is dead..

[anyonebutme]

You do not want to lower the subframe unless you plan on putting the car with a ride height HIGHER than stock. End of that discussion, that is not an option. You'll have better luck getting the car to handle right by removing the sway bars completely, lol.

The kit should have came with 2 pieces of metal with 2 holes about a 1/4" thick that fit under the sway bar bushing mounts. Those are the shims I am talking about. You may need to make some thicker ones depending on your car and how much droop your suspension has and how low you are. But let's first solve the initial problem before getting to that. Your end link length is the primary determined of driveshaft room. The shorter your end links, the more room you have to the driveshaft and less room to the car body itself. I need to see actual pics of your stuff installed to help further, as I can't see what's going on so I can't help you further with what you need to install it. There's complicated geometry involved where each change causes cascades of issues to figure out that I normally do in my head when doing this stuff.

You're fast approaching the point where you discover the 3sx bar is a complete dumpster fire of pure shit, and you might be ill equipped to get it installed. If you would have asked me or any of the other guys who bought them when they first came out I would have told you not to. It's simply not worth it, and on top of not fitting makes the car handle like shit unless you have a specific need for large bars like my old setup using very soft springs. Only reason they are on my car now is I threw away my OEM bars and I'm too lazy to drop the subframe again. That shitpile of a rear bar is 75% of the reason my vr4 was no faster than a fwd tt car on the track.

[shmoo]

good jesus christ.. i'd rather not put the stock bar back on. but.. it's looking like. i'd kind of just like to drive this car.

[shmoo]

well,

i just took my first drive with the new sway bar installed. i had the new bar bent up (away from the driveshaft, which cost me more than the bar. i also shimmed the bar up where it bolts to the forward part of the sub frame. probably a little less than an inch.

i also hammered the undercarriage of the car and cut the "eye bolt" mounts that
3sx sent. i cut about an inch off of each mount.

and chris, thanks for all the help, let me know if you need anything. like a stock sway bar or whatever, who knows, i may have it.

[anyonebutme]

I need you to enjoy your car, lol.

[shmoo]

got it..