Trying to boycott the NFL

[j2k4]

I love the Green Bay Packers - always have.

I am inclined to give pro football a miss, these days.

The immediate problem aside - the now essentially incoherent protest of the players (an undistillable collection of gripes) - I really am struck by the fact that I find myself siding with the owners at the moment.

Normally, they're at the absolute bottom of my list, because of the monopolistic practices government allows them, but also, and most of all, the fact the public is browbeaten into funding and maintaining the venues they play in - there is no reason whatsoever for that.

Anyway, the protest(s) are a workplace issue, nothing more - the players cannot be construed to own these workplaces, and so their actions are illegal, period.

There's not one thing keeping them from broadcasting their views elsewhere, and ESPN, et. al., would surely show up with cameras and microphones wherever they chose.

There is so much about all of this to dislike and be disgusted by.

So - I think I'm done with the pro game...Rodgers being out the rest of the year just makes the decision easier to make. ;)

[j2k4]

Update:

Watched zero football last weekend, no ill-effects to report.

I suspect Missus J may have watched a bit when I was running errands, as she reported her Bears were winning at some point.

Lining-up extraneous activities to engage in this Sunday. ;)

[Granny]

My condolences on Rodgers being out the rest of the season.
I've grown to like the guy!

Football season is my favorite time of the year.
I have actually been depressed because I have also decided to boycott the NFL.

My team of course is the Seahawks and I love Russell Wilson to pieces mostly because he's a VA boy that has done well along with Kam Chancellor.

But the team as a whole has been allowed to act like ass.
Bennett supporting Kaepernick is more then I can take.

Kaepernick did what he did last season because he know he was going to be let go for poor job performance and if he played the race card they wouldn't let him go but I could go on about him for days.

I watched the games to get away from life's daily crap.
Now it's just politics like the evening news.

They are paid to entertain and no one is entertained by this BS.
If I paid several hundred dollars to attend a game I'd be pissed.
If you want to protest do it on your dime not mine.

[stealthee]

I read an article where a vet refused an honor from the Saints because of the NFL's current climate of "protesters" One of the players reacted with a comment along the lines of "If he only understood what we are protesting he would understand"

The problem is the players don't even know what they are protesting. Some claim racial inequality, or police brutality against blacks, or whatever their choice of the day is. They like to ignore black on black crime. There are more black on black crimes in one day than there are reported acts of police brutality against them in an entire year. The leading cause of death against black males aged 15-34 is homicide.

They also can't tell you what kneeling is accomplishing other than hurting their own pocketbooks.

[TT4ME]

Some St Louis stats to support Brian's post.

http://www.slmpd.org/images/Homicide_Stats_for_Website.pdf

[stealthee]

The problem is if you try to show one of these "protesters" a fact sheet they'll just claim you're a racist and are part of the problem...

[j2k4]

CNN Money says the NFL is fine:

http://money.cnn.com/video/media/2017/09/28/nfl-ratings-still-huge.cnnmoney/index.html

[mdcrose]

I read an article where a vet refused an honor from the Saints because of the NFL's current climate of "protesters" One of the players reacted with a comment along the lines of "If he only understood what we are protesting he would understand"

The problem is the players don't even know what they are protesting. Some claim racial inequality, or police brutality against blacks, or whatever their choice of the day is. They like to ignore black on black crime. There are more black on black crimes in one day than there are reported acts of police brutality against them in an entire year. The leading cause of death against black males aged 15-34 is homicide.

They also can't tell you what kneeling is accomplishing other than hurting their own pocketbooks.

So if your statement is true, that black males between 15-34 are killing each other at a faster rate than the police are killing black males of the same age range, we should somehow be less concerned about institutionalized brutality by police because "they" are already killing each other more? You see how that sounds, right?

[curt93t/t]

Here's my take on all of this. First and foremost, players are paid to play a game. Can you name 10 professions/jobs that allow you to protest on the job? Though I do feel there are bad cops out there, the good out number ten fold. I honestly do not think any cop goes in to work expecting nor wanting to kill someone. I challenge ANYONE to do what they do and make right decisions 100% of the time. In their line of work split second decisions are what needs to be made. If someone is resisting, pulling what appears to be a weapon or whatever, they cannot wait in some instances.

Sorry, it is what it is and it is ALWAYS easier to judge or second guess someone while watching a video. Believe me when I say I do not condone cops using what I just typed as an excuse to shoot first and ask questions later. All I know is if I am in a bad neighborhood at night my spidey senses are going to be in overload mode. Because at the end of the day if it's going to be me or some dirty bag no life career criminal, it's going to be them. That said, I could never do that job because of that.

Going back to the players. Yes, it is their right to free speech and speak up for what they feel is wrong today. I will tell you that nobody in this country is "oppressed." Though some may have it harder to succeed because of their background or where they live, they at least can make it. If that wasn't the case then you wouldn't have men like Ben Carson.
I honestly feel the players are disrespecting the flag because it is this great nation and that flag that has allowed them to be millionaires. Lets face it, without sports most athletes would be flipping burgers. Respect what has allowed you to have what you have and put your money and time where your mouth is.

It has to start with the home, and that is family is #1 and parents actually be parents. Communities have to rise up and say, "No more" to the crime that infects it and no treat the police as the bad guy. How many times have you heard about a shooting with people around and nobody talks to the cops???? All lives matter, but what ticks me off the most is BLM goes crazy when a career criminal who was in the act of committing a crime resists arrest and is killed. You do NOT, I repeat do NOT hear s**t from them or Jesse Jackson, or Sharpton when an innocent 8 year old gets killed in a drive by. Oh yeah, it was a black gang that did that trying to kill a rival black gang member. How many times have we heard that???? I am going to get off my soap box now.

[stealthee]

So if your statement is true, that black males between 15-34 are killing each other at a faster rate than the police are killing black males of the same age range, we should somehow be less concerned about institutionalized brutality by police because "they" are already killing each other more? You see how that sounds, right?

I didn't say that at all. My point was the so called racial injustice is not what they make it out to be in the first place. Just because you only see cases of brutality against blacks on the news doesn't mean it doesn't happen to whites. I have had run-ins in one way or another with close to 50 officers and of those only one was a bad cop. The bad cops are the ones who get the spotlight, but the are a very major minority.

Again I ask what are these so called protests accomplishing? What are these players doing to educate young black kids about a life of crime is might be way to go? Why is it they don't speak out against black on black crime?

[mdcrose]

If they weren't kneeling would we be having this discussion?

[stealthee]

And what is this discussion accomplishing?

[Granny]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/11/1_alabama_player_remains_invol.amp

They won't stand and I won't watch.
17 on Sunday and 7 were Seahawks.

They may keep their fan base in Washington but I wonder how many out of state fans are loosing interest fast.

[donniekak]

My brother is an ex marine combat vet. I've spoken with him extensively on this subject, he brought 2 main ideas forward.

First, he thought he was fighting so Americans can be free. Stifling free speech is the opposite of what he fought for.

Second and more important to him. Why do they even put on a big patriotic dog and pony show at football games? What exactly does NFL football have to do with the national anthem, flags, and the military? Cut all the shit out and go back to what it's about, rich idiots that run fast, hit hard, and score touchdowns.

[j2k4]

My brother is an ex marine combat vet. I've spoken with him extensively on this subject, he brought 2 main ideas forward.

First, he thought he was fighting so Americans can be free. Stifling free speech is the opposite of what he fought for.

Two things bear directly on the, um, what to call this...demonstrations taking place.

One is the workplace issue - the players don't own the venue, so their ability to "demonstrate" is subject to the forbearance of the people who DO; that would be the owners...the legitimacy of their ownership of a - usually - publicly-funded edifice aside.

So-

As a strictly legal matter, if the owners don't like it enough, the players are subject to ejection or arrest, and there is nothing further to debate.

The practical problem is, however, the by-now functional incoherence of the demonstrations, which has diluted their effect, and left the players no signal point at which they can stop demonstrating.


Second and more important to him. Why do they even put on a big patriotic dog and pony show at football games? What exactly does NFL football have to do with the national anthem, flags, and the military? Cut all the shit out and go back to what it's about, rich idiots that run fast, hit hard, and score touchdowns.

The "dog and pony show" has been more-or-less traditional since the practice coalesced early in the last century.

Why it continues?

Ask anyone, and the best answer you'll get is just that: "tradition".

I believe we're in the midst of deciding whether the "tradition" will continue - it would be difficult to make the case that omitting it would, at this point, be more of a crisis for the NFL than the demonstrations have been, and frankly, depriving the players of the opportunity to protest is probably the only way to end the impasse.

Thing is, what do they do then?

The perceived problems that gave rise to the protests are still there, right?

Modern problems...:lo5l:

[donniekak]

What has diluted the effect is the attack on the method of protest instead of discussing what they are protesting.

I've also heard my brothers stories on how while carousing as marines do, the black men in his unit were sometimes beat severely by police while he and the other white guys that were there doing the same thing were told to go home and sleep it off.

I myself have seen badge wearing officers refer to blacks as niggers. So if you think racism isn't affecting blacks who come into contact with law enforcement you're not looking very hard.

[j2k4]

Okay - leaving all your non-bearing particulars aside for a moment, precisely HOW would you - or the players - go about determining/quantifying whatever change they claim to desire has taken place, in order that they may cease their protest?

[donniekak]

Okay - leaving all your non-bearing particulars aside for a moment, precisely HOW would you - or the players - go about determining/quantifying whatever change they claim to desire has taken place, in order that they may cease their protest?

I'm not protesting so it's not up to me. They can protest the rest of their lives for all I care. But I highly doubt racism will be gone anytime soon.

Personally I'm just hoping the steelers can keep winning after their bye week.

[j2k4]

I'm not protesting so it's not up to me. They can protest the rest of their lives for all I care. But I highly doubt racism will be gone anytime soon.

Personally I'm just hoping the steelers can keep winning after their bye week.

So, you don't care, and have no entree to the topic, yes?

Why did you engage your brother in a conversation about it?

Why did you even post?

[mdcrose]

I'm not sure our founding fathers would be so enthused by our hyper-nationalism. I choose to show my patriotism by being free to live my life the way I see fit, not be controlled by some mob of people that think I need to say the pledge and sing a national anthem. If people want to do that then that is fine, but live your own life. Anyhow I'm not sure how kneeling impacts the players work performance, it just gets people who cannot see the world through anyone but their own eyes riled up.

[j2k4]

So, we should put you in the 'Don't really care one-way-or-another-but-don't want to come down with the Nationalist-cum-Patriotic' crowd?

Gotcha. ;)

Edit:

There are more of you than even you think.

[Uniuno]

My thoughts:

Sure, it's freedom of speech, but is it the proper venue for protests? If any of us did something like that in the normal course of our jobs we'd probably get fired. If we did it on TV we'd never get another job, like good ol' Kaperdick. To think he has the nerve to sue the NFL for collusion against rehiring him. Nobody wants the drama.

Are they the ones that should even be protesting? How are they being mistreated?

Taking a knee is the laziest and most ineffective way to promote the change they're "advocating". Why don't they actually DO something, instead of bitch about the way the world is? They have the money and influence that they could actually make a difference, but that would be work. Why not just be disrespectful instead?

All they have accomplished is made people talk about it. Nothing has changed. It's just talk.

[donniekak]

You yourself don't need to be directly affected to get involved. How many people support causes that don't affect them? Does everybody in a cancer walk have to have cancer?

What they are trying to do is to force a discussion about their cause.

I'm not 100% sure your employer can demand you perform a nationalistic ritual anyway. I'm willing to bet we'll find out soon enough.

I'm also sure that part of what makes America great is the ability to say f$&k this place and everything it stands for.


If you think about it, that's how trump got elected. Enough people were convinced that this place sucks, and they needed someone to make it great again.

[donniekak]

As far as doing more than taking a knee NFL players and teams are super involved in their local communities helping people constantly.
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/29/16375378/nfl-players-charity-donations-jj-watt-hurricane-harvey-patrick-peterson-foundation

[j2k4]

I'm also sure that part of what makes America great is the ability to say f$&k this place and everything it stands for.

Do you think that's what they're doing?

[mdcrose]

So you can't sit at your desk and wear a BLM shirt, pussy hat, raise your fist, picket for your union, wear a don't tread on me shirt, or a Che shirt without getting fired?

Every change starts with "just talk" at some point.

[j2k4]

My thoughts:

Sure, it's freedom of speech, but is it the proper venue for protests? If any of us did something like that in the normal course of our jobs we'd probably get fired. If we did it on TV we'd never get another job, like good ol' Kaperdick. To think he has the nerve to sue the NFL for collusion against rehiring him. Nobody wants the drama.

Are they the ones that should even be protesting? How are they being mistreated?

Taking a knee is the laziest and most ineffective way to promote the change they're "advocating". Why don't they actually DO something, instead of bitch about the way the world is? They have the money and influence that they could actually make a difference, but that would be work. Why not just be disrespectful instead?

All they have accomplished is made people talk about it. Nothing has changed. It's just talk.

Just so, Mark.

Thing is, they haven't left themselves an 'out' - how will they know when to stop?

Not that anyone should give a shit, but my personal thought is that the anthem and the flag represent the best aspirations of our country - and we don't live up to them except in our very best moments, because we are fallible and imperfect humans.

What these guys are doing - again, my view - is disrespecting the ideas we espouse...even though our execution of those ideas is flawed and continuously falls short.

The cultural circumstances that afflict minorities, crappy schools and neighborhoods, the extant racism and occasionally oppressive law-enforcement?

All of these are a reflection of US, not our ideals.

To disrespect the aspiration that is America is thoroughly misguided.

[j2k4]

As far as doing more than taking a knee NFL players and teams are super involved in their local communities helping people constantly.

I've seen it personally, and I think it's fantastic - couldn't they expand on that inclination and accomplish more in the direct manner that is so much more admirable and on-point?

It's not like ESPN wouldn't be willing to publicize their efforts, is it?

[mdcrose]

Just so, Mark.

Thing is, they haven't left themselves an 'out' - how will they know when to stop?

Not that anyone should give a shit, but my personal thought is that the anthem and the flag represent the best aspirations of our country - and we don't live up to them except in our very best moments, because we are fallible and imperfect humans.

What these guys are doing - again, my view - is disrespecting the ideas we espouse...even though our execution of those ideas is flawed and continuously falls short.

The cultural circumstances that afflict minorities, crappy schools and neighborhoods, the extant racism and occasionally oppressive law-enforcement?

All of these are a reflection of US, not our ideals.

To disrespect the aspiration that is America is thoroughly misguided.

Not exactly though, right? Our original ideals didn't include women or minorities.

[j2k4]

Not exactly though, right? Our original ideals didn't include women or minorities.

And we've amended the Constitution accordingly, have we not?

Why are you being intentionally obtuse?

[mdcrose]

And we've amended the Constitution accordingly, have we not?

Why are you being intentionally obtuse?

I'm not trying to be obtuse; I can simply sympathize and see the validity of people protesting a symbol of our greatness and freedom if they in fact are not able to be free from persecution, illegal traffic stops, warrant-less searches, false imprisonment, etc.

Oh and we amended the constitution because people protested for it to be changed.

[j2k4]

Every change starts with "just talk" at some point.

Troo story.

Wanna talk about the problem of absentee fathers in black families?

Most people see this as a taboo and discomfiting subject, but I'll bet you don't, do you? ;)

[j2k4]

I'm not trying to be obtuse; I can simply sympathize and see the validity of people protesting a symbol of our greatness and freedom if they in fact are not able to be free from persecution, illegal traffic stops, warrant-less searches, false imprisonment, etc.

Great - don't you wish people chose to protest more constructively and effectively?


Oh and we amended the constitution because people protested for it to be changed.

Exactly as it should have happened.

You seem to forget the Founders were people, too, and our fight for independence was a protest as well - a protest that culminated in a war.

Have we learned anything from history?

[mdcrose]

Troo story.

Wanna talk about the problem of absentee fathers in black families?

Most people see this as a taboo and discomfiting subject, but I'll bet you don't, do you? ;)

Not discomforting or taboo to me, but individual fathers are also not a government backed means of force or oppression. I'm not saying oppression is a government policy, but if they can't stop it with in their ranks then it tacitly validated by the government. Who else has the legal authority to infringe on your rights and kill you if they feel justified.

[j2k4]

Not discomforting or taboo to me, but individual fathers are also not a government backed means of force or oppression. I'm not saying oppression is a government policy, but if they can't stop it with in their ranks then it tacitly validated by the government. Who else has the legal authority to infringe on your rights and kill you if they feel justified.

So talk doesn't work or have value for anything else, I guess.

[j2k4]

Anyway, two posts over two weeks by yours truly, then another week later Karen wanders in and lights a fuse?

You rock, Granny. :D

[Uniuno]

You yourself don't need to be directly affected to get involved. How many people support causes that don't affect them? Does everybody in a cancer walk have to have cancer?

What they are trying to do is to force a discussion about their cause.

I'm not 100% sure your employer can demand you perform a nationalistic ritual anyway. I'm willing to bet we'll find out soon enough.

I'm also sure that part of what makes America great is the ability to say f$&k this place and everything it stands for.


If you think about it, that's how trump got elected. Enough people were convinced that this place sucks, and they needed someone to make it great again.

I'm willing to bet most people walking in cancer walks know someone with it or have been effected by it in one way or another. How many footballers have seen seen or know someone affected by police brutality in their upper-class circles?

They've certainly succeeded if all they wanted was discussion.

Nobody forced them to stand either, clearly. Doesn't change the fact that it's seen as disrespectful. They aren't forced to have those players on their team.

As far as the link you posted, that's truly awesome that there are player's reaching out to their communities. However, Kapernick was not one of them. I don't watch football so I don't know who else kneels or if they engage in community building activities.

Maybe since his football career didn't work out he could become a police officer.

[j2k4]

...Kapernick was not one of them. I don't watch football so I don't know who else kneels or if they engage in community building activities.

Maybe since his football career didn't work out he could become a police officer.

Good idea - his erratic delivery wouldn't be an issue, either. :D

[j2k4]

We should re-christen it the NKL: they'll never know when to stop, will they?

[donniekak]

I'm willing to bet most people walking in cancer walks know someone with it or have been effected by it in one way or another. How many footballers have seen seen or know someone affected by police brutality in their upper-class circles?

They've certainly succeeded if all they wanted was discussion.

Nobody forced them to stand either, clearly. Doesn't change the fact that it's seen as disrespectful. They aren't forced to have those players on their team.

As far as the link you posted, that's truly awesome that there are player's reaching out to their communities. However, Kapernick was not one of them. I don't watch football so I don't know who else kneels or if they engage in community building activities.

Maybe since his football career didn't work out he could become a police officer.
Are you saying that most NFL football players are born upperclass in nice neighborhoods?

Quite the contrary most NFL players are from the ghetto. Richard Sherman was raised in Compton.

The fact is most NFL football players have lived a life that puts them far more in contact with the issue at hand than any of us.

[j2k4]

My hat's off to anyone who escapes Compton or any other ghetto.

You would do well to keep in mind the education provided in such areas is even more lacking than that offered in more well-to-do areas - history, particularly as it relates to the Founding and constitutional matters, suffers at the hands of the NEA.

And no, I haven't mixed the two threads - I am merely taking note of the pervasiveness of the crappy education available these days. ;)

Sherman is a pretty smart fellow - this I know - but I'd be willing to bet he's not exactly steeped in history, except as it relates to racism and slavery.

If you try to accuse me of racism for saying so, that won't fly, believe me - tell you what, though...if you can arrange for Richard Sherman to attend this thread, I'll argue the same point with him. ;)

[donniekak]

I can't stand richard Sherman. But going from Compton to Stanford and on to the NFL isn't an easy task.

The fact that more of them don't turn out like Aaron Hernandez is what actually surprises me. Instead most of the players are constantly involved in their local communities.

[j2k4]

I won't ask you to address the points I've made, no worries.

I guess 'hoping' the education system will 'change' is all we're allowed...

[NOMIEZVR4]

thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD6ne4zfz1k&feature=youtu.be

[donniekak]

I think max is right, and I think that espn doesn't want that clip out there.

America is a land of opportunity up to a certain point. Anyone can get wealthy here, but 90% of everything big is run by old white guys. Minorities can make money here, but no matter how much they make they rarely step up to the power level of the good old boys club.

[j2k4]

thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD6ne4zfz1k&feature=youtu.be

Agreed, ESPN doesn't want to bite the hand, for damned sure.

Max doesn't quite get to where I would take the point he makes early on, however.

I'm busy at the moment - a winter storm is hitting as I type - I'll be back for more tomorrow, hopefully. ;)

[j2k4]

Okay, time is a bit short, and I don't want to type a word-brick that no one will read, so I'll try this a point or two at a time.

As to the existence of an "Old White Guy's Club" of NFL owners?

Absolutely true.

Question(s):

Do we seek a legal remedy for this?

If so, what shape should it take?

First, congress would/should have to undo all the tiny items that essentially guarantee the monopolistic practices the NFL has historically been allowed.

For what that's worth, ESPN is crashing and burning, and stuff like that will aid the cause.

Then, cuz "old white guys" the slope gets more slippery.

Max's obvious point was blacks (legally defined as 'non-whites' - think Carlos Slim, for example) would have to be somehow given government-sanctioned entree into the franchise market-place in the NFL.

How could this be structured fairly?

Unless we're no longer concerned with being "fair", any legal moves would have to default to the time-honored use of percentages, like they have been with affirmative action.

In any case, we can stipulate that diversity-of-ownership has regretfully been ignored, and needs corrected.

So, how do we begin?

Do we punitively snatch a few franchises for 'redistribution?

After all, the league is already guilty, yes?)

Establish a lottery for this purpose?

Another lottery to decide who the new owners should be?

How long should this continue, and where would it stop?

Keep something else in mind:

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a legislative solution - it's effect is not debatable, but events since it's inception would seem to indicate that ridding our country of racism is not that simple.

Remnant racism is only incrementally diminished by the passage of the generations that practice it, true story.

Ironically, one of the only things that changes people's hearts is religion, but we can't/won't go there, so...how do we get there from here?

I will also point out that the minority community hasn't proven terrible adept at curing it's own ills, has it?


Thoughts?

[j2k4]

Killed my own thread...:rolleyes:

[donniekak]

My argument is that diversity cannot be legislated, down to a certain point. You can make slavery illegal, but you cannot make employers or schools take less qualified candidates over more qualified candidates.

That's not to say that blatant racist practices shouldn't be litigated.

The true end to this may never come. It's up to communities to change, and society as a whole to change. Looking to go back in time is a recent trend that hurts this cause. You can be change oriented and forward looking without adopting "progressive" ideas.

[j2k4]

Then if you identify a point in the past - however recent...or not - where you can see/say that things went off-track or awry, backtracking and seeking the correct path is not allowed?

[donniekak]

Then if you identify a point in the past - however recent...or not - where you can see/say that things went off-track or awry, backtracking and seeking the correct path is not allowed?

I'm talking about wanting things to be "the way they used to be". It's impossible, time only flows in one direction.

[j2k4]

Kinda basic, yeah - don't know/haven't heard anyone pushing that, though.

[donniekak]

Kinda basic, yeah - don't know/haven't heard anyone pushing that, though.

Really, what about the whole maga thing?

[j2k4]

That's a little non-specific.

It's a slogan, ffs, not a map to the past.

Try again.

[kywhitelightning]

Take your protests elsewhere and more importantly, on your own UNPAID time. They are being paid to perform and as much as they wouldn't like to hear it, perform as management intends. If management wants them to dance around in fluffy clown costumes, they need to suit up and get the job done because that's what they are being paid very generously to do.

I am an Army vet and feel it is completely disrespectful to our flag and our country to do this madness. As long as they are being paid by the organization, they should be forced to uphold a positive public appearance. Take a look at athletes that get prosecuted for crimes outside of the game. BENCHED. SUSPENDED. FIRED. This has been a reasonable solution for years to ensure the team maintains a positive public profile. They're doing this shit inside the arena. Benched and suspended should be the minimums for these acts of unprofessionalism. There are hundreds and probably thousands of other up and coming stars that would gladly take their place and put on a proper show for the fans. I personally would love to see the owners take that stand. You want to kneel during the anthem, go do it in the locker room where the public can't see. While you're there, just stay there for the rest of the game as your services are no longer needed here.

Until they (either the players or management) fix it, I'm not interested. I love my Steelers but, I love my country more. Don't disrespect my flag.

Jeff

[Granny]

I grew up in a time when athletes were role models.
In high school our football players were held to certain standards and if they didn't comply then you didn't play.
It's really disappointing to see how the NFL has allowed players to piss all over those values.

Jeremiah (my 8 year old grandson) loves football and I hate having to explain to him how the guys we've cheered for the past 4 years are being dicks.
He doesn't understand.

If you want to change things you do it by getting people on your side....not pissing them off.

[j2k4]

Th NFL has angered Karen. :mad:

[Granny]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/colin-kaepernick-cover-men-of-the-year/amp

Can't believe no one has called me out on this!

Kaepernick is an ass....
He now says he will stand if someone will hire him.
What I've said from day one

[j2k4]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/colin-kaepernick-cover-men-of-the-year/amp

Can't believe no one has called me out on this!

Kaepernick is an ass....
He now says he will stand if someone will hire him.
What I've said from day one

Zackly.

Did he do something greater than J.J. Watt did?

I think not, but Watt is white, so...


The idea that Kaepernick equates to Ali, et. al., is beyond ridiculous.

[j2k4]

I need to listen to some of his stuff, I guess...


http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/11/19/country-singer-neal-mccoy-new-song-take-knee-my-ass-about-nfl-players

[stealthee]

Isn't is funny that the dumbasses calling him racist are being racist themselves by assuming he is racist just because he isn't black?

[j2k4]

Certain stuff is verboten, you see?