Sad news about NG17

[Alan92RTTT]

As many of you know, NG17 is scheduled for August of this year. Registrations this year are the lowest they have ever been. Of course we'll never know all the reasons why so many haven't signed up - whether it's the date, the time of year, or they have other commitments... But the fact is, they haven't. For that reason, and none other, it's with a very heavy heart that we're canceling this year's NG.

For those who had signed up, your refund has been processed. If the funds have not been returned paypal says you should have them in 3 to 5 days. should have received your refund.

Once again, we're very sorry to deliver this news. It truly saddens us.

We invite you to join in a discussion to let us know why you weren't planning to attend or why you just hadn't signed up yet.

Lori & Alan

[spooling 1g]

I planned on going but never officially signed up just incase i couldnt,(work,time,etc)if that makes sense.

[Zucchini]

I have attended the last nine consecutive National Gatherings. Normally, I'd have signed up in a heartbeat, but unfortunately this year it just didn't seem possible. I was considering it still, but the decision would have been made within a month prior to the event. With some uncertainty about my employment in the next couple months as well as some other commitments this year (a couple out of state weddings), I just couldn't commit. I would love to continue with NG in the future, but it just didn't seem to be in the cards this year.

[stealthee]

Money and time (including time off of work) have always been my issue on why I couldn't attend NG over the years. This year the date was the main factor. There were already plans in place for going to The Shootout and people depending on me as a ride there.

[alexw3000gt]

Shootout.

[futurevr4man]

I have been to 5 of the last 6 NG's I believe. Maybe 6/7...

But regardless, this year landed on the first family vacation my family has planned, well, ever. So I had already told my mom I would attend that. Just bad timing.

[93STLTH]

For me, it was a combination of the date and location. I look forward to the NG every year and make it a priority when scheduling vacation. As many of you know, I recently started a new job in the Florida Keys. One of the restrictions they have on vacations is to limit them during hurricane season, they can and will cancel a vacation if a tropical system threatens the Keys.
In late June, I think I could get away with a vacation because the chances of a hurricane are less. Late August, on the other hand, is peak season. Even with that, I could have gone if the drive was 2 days or less. If I was recalled from vacation, I could make it back before a storm would be scheduled to hit. With the NG being in Michigan, I'm looking at a 3 day drive back, probably not what my work wants to hear if they recalled me.
I'm sorry to hear the NG is canceled. I just hope there's plans in the works for next year.

[DocWalt]

I've burnt through my vacation time (and money!) chasing the SCCA national level autocross events this year so NG was essentially never in the cards. The date this year was also unlikely to work due to other travel (personal & business) so that kinda sucked too.

[xwire]

Timing, late august my kids are in school and as we used to make this a family affair that wouldn't work

Late notice, buy the time anything was remotely posted I had already made plans for the year for my vacation. Yes I could of move/changed some of it but see above

I think if the NG is to continue the committee should take this year to step back and regroup. And maybe plan for next year with announcing it by the end of the year. Just my two cents.

[2fnloud]

Late announcement made it impossible for Beth to get the time off of work. She has to put in all her requests by the end of October. We guessed the time frame, but guessed wrong and she didn't get the time off. Being in Michigan I would of been there, even if it was just me. But in August kids are into practices for summer sports, it just makes lengthy vacations difficult.

I truly hope NG continues, it is an event that I look forward to every year. I have made great friends that unfortunately I only get to see at NG.

[i3igpete]

I registered for the NG, even though I probably won't be able to make it due to work travel in August. I figured if it was still going to happen, the budget would be stretched pretty thin so I wanted to help out where I could.

[JoshAnker]

Because I no longer own a 3S :(

[anyonebutme]

I'm broke, that's the long and short of it, so this year probably couldn't happen for me. I never can actually schedule vacation so it's just a matter of if I have money and if I'm backed up at work, so signing up in advance is never something I can really commit to. While most people have to schedule early, I have to schedule late.

[anyonebutme]

Because I no longer own a 3S :(

I haven't brought a 3S to an NG in years, soooooooo.

[Checkered vr4]

I have to have vacation turned in by December 1st. I was planning on popping in for the road race and then heading back home.

[Alan92RTTT]

Because I no longer own a 3S :(
Hey Josh, How are you doing?

[Rakuny]

I very much enjoy going to these types of events but haven't been able to make many over the past years due to school, work and funds.
This years event, while close to home for me, would not be an exception. This is my last year at university and I take summer classes, I am simply too busy.

[Maximal]

All valid reasons here but I think the overall issue is that the core NG group has moved on to new responsibilities. When I was going to the NG's every year the only thing I had to worry about was finding someone to watch the dogs. Now I've got 2 kids, along with a ton of other "adult" responsibilities. Hell, I haven't driven my car more than 50 miles over the past 2.5 years.

In the past you'd have a sporadic dose of these people busy adulting drop off but there was always new blood to make up for them. When people started dropping off in larger numbers, for some reason that new blood failed to step up and start making these gatherings.

You could point the affordability of these cars now and money being a factor but my first NG I was able to pay for as a broke college kid, and this year was more affordable than ever. Could be the younger generation is OK socializing online compared to in person but I spent way too much online back then too. Could be the forum split and now the rise of Facebook groups making it hard to get traction on a single topic. I wonder if more marketing of the event on Facebook and somehow the other forum would have helped but I have my doubts.

Sucks this is happening for sure. I know next year will be a tough call. I'd love to say I'll be there but I honestly don't think I will.

[95gto]

Timing was the ultimate issue for me. My second child is due around that time so traveling out of state for car stuff was out of the question.

I know the committee tries to get information out as soon as possible, however I think getting the dates locked in early and getting registration open early are both two key items to improving attendance.

[Rakuny]

I agree, the forum activity especially started dying down when the face book groups started to increase. It is very difficult to have certain discussions and maintain topics on the face book groups so I never bothered trying. At the same time the decreased forum activity caused me to stop bothering with that as well.


All valid reasons here but I think the overall issue is that the core NG group has moved on to new responsibilities. When I was going to the NG's every year the only thing I had to worry about was finding someone to watch the dogs. Now I've got 2 kids, along with a ton of other "adult" responsibilities. Hell, I haven't driven my car more than 50 miles over the past 2.5 years.

In the past you'd have a sporadic dose of these people busy adulting drop off but there was always new blood to make up for them. When people started dropping off in larger numbers, for some reason that new blood failed to step up and start making these gatherings.

You could point the affordability of these cars now and money being a factor but my first NG I was able to pay for as a broke college kid, and this year was more affordable than ever. Could be the younger generation is OK socializing online compared to in person but I spent way too much online back then too. Could be the forum split and now the rise of Facebook groups making it hard to get traction on a single topic. I wonder if more marketing of the event on Facebook and somehow the other forum would have helped but I have my doubts.

Sucks this is happening for sure. I know next year will be a tough call. I'd love to say I'll be there but I honestly don't think I will.

[94VR4NCVA]

I've never been and have always wanted to join in on the fun. For me its date & location. Has a different location ever been brought up or discussed? Would a different location be better or not be as popular?

Some of the other 3S gatherings further south still have a good attendance record

[TBoxdorfer]

Numerous reasons for me...
Already have a vacation planned this year, but that's never stopped me before. This year however I have a baby on the way so it makes things difficult financially. Also the time in which it is going to be held is a bit tough for me to make.
I have unfortunately drifted away from my car and neglected it. It seems time is extremely precious and hard to come by. Not only to do what I want to do to it, but also get it ready for any race event.

[Endersum]

As many of you know, NG17 is scheduled for August of this year. Registrations this year are the lowest they have ever been. Of course we'll never know all the reasons why so many haven't signed up - whether it's the date, the time of year, or they have other commitments... But the fact is, they haven't. For that reason, and none other, it's with a very heavy heart that we're canceling this year's NG.

For those who had signed up, your refund has been processed. If the funds have not been returned paypal says you should have them in 3 to 5 days. should have received your refund.

Once again, we're very sorry to deliver this news. It truly saddens us.

We invite you to join in a discussion to let us know why you weren't planning to attend or why you just hadn't signed up yet.

Lori & Alan
Time. For me it's always time. I love road course. It's the reason I go besides the group setting. Car shows I have here and don't go to them. Drag racing has never been my thing and autocross is hit or miss. The road course is always mid week which means I have to punch out a week of vacation to do it.

This vote should count as two as my Mother (also an owner/attendee) feels the same way.

I would pay more for autocross on or close to a weekend. A Friday through Monday (or SSMT, TFSS etc) event would draw more folks I think. It would cost more, but we are stuck with the conundrum of the folks with the jobs that can afford the money cannot afford the time, and folks that have the time cannot afford the cost.

Just my $.02



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[Uniuno]

It was timing for me this year. I'll be prepping the car for the shoot-out and don't want to risk breaking it without time to fix it before the shoot-out.

I really don't think location is as big of a deal as everyone makes it seem, certainly can understand Tom's dilemma though. The UMG was held in the same region of the country and had a bigger turn out than the last two years at NG.

I think the difference there is they don't charge to attend or for the car show (Still had nice trophies, too!). Just show up and have fun, buy a shirt if you want. Maybe the NG would bring more people if they didn't have to pay just to go. Still have to pay for AutoX, Road course, and go-carts, but not just to be there.

Hopefully the NG can make a comeback next year.

[VR-4 0wnz j00]

I've always wanted to attend but I am very limited on PTO due to yearly trips to Taiwan for my wife's family. I end up doing BRG instead because it's a 3.5 hour drive vs 8+ hours to NG. Also, we have had my father in law from May-July and I have exhausted pretty much all money for fun stuff.

[curt_gendron]

It was timing for me this year. I'll be prepping the car for the shoot-out and don't want to risk breaking it without time to fix it before the shoot-out.

I really don't think location is as big of a deal as everyone makes it seem, certainly can understand Tom's dilemma though. The UMG was held in the same region of the country and had a bigger turn out than the last two years at NG.

I think the difference there is they don't charge to attend or for the car show (Still had nice trophies, too!). Just show up and have fun, buy a shirt if you want. Maybe the NG would bring more people if they didn't have to pay just to go. Still have to pay for AutoX, Road course, and go-carts, but not just to be there.

Hopefully the NG can make a comeback next year.

You took the words right out of my mouth. :) UMG had 33 3/Ses there this year (in the rain). Last year we had 37. Plus another 10-15 owners without a 3/S. A car event should be as cheap as possible. If you start charging people then you are expected to put on a hell of an event. The NG was giving out a 3/S experience and charging Ferrari prices.

Alan and Lori have put in a hell of a lot of work on the NG over the years. We all have a tremendous respect for all that you have done. But your NG formula just doesn't work for the size of the 3/S community and their pocketbooks.

later,
Curt

[IPD]

I've been deployed or in training--consecutively--for pretty much every NG since 2007 (including 3.5 years in Germany). I'd registered in 2011 & ended up giving it away because I couldn't go. I sponsored in 2012.

The platform is dead. I know nobody wants to face the truth--but it is. FB is killing it off. That, and nearly every 3/s is about to be at least 20+ years old (check the MFG dates on your latest 99's). Nobody wants these cars. Vendors are going tits-up because the money isn't there. The older, more loyal owners have families, lives to lead, jobs to work, etc. Younger blood who could be walking in the paths we were walking as young pups 15 years ago--just don't want these cars. The 3/s will probably never be redeemed to cult-classic, coveted-icon status like its 90's contemporaries. The forum rift didn't help things; but the lion's share of the blame there is the complicit sycophants and irrational idealists who kept 3sdie afloat.

What I can tell you is that my new DD is such a small car community that if there ever is a gathering, they pretty much have to open the doors to not just all models from the manufacturer...but pretty much all makes as well.

[Greg E]

My life is my job now. Same issue as last year.

[Endersum]

I've been deployed or in training--consecutively--for pretty much every NG since 2007 (including 3.5 years in Germany). I'd registered in 2011 & ended up giving it away because I couldn't go. I sponsored in 2012.

The platform is dead. I know nobody wants to face the truth--but it is. FB is killing it off. That, and nearly every 3/s is about to be at least 20+ years old (check the MFG dates on your latest 99's). Nobody wants these cars. Vendors are going tits-up because the money isn't there. The older, more loyal owners have families, lives to lead, jobs to work, etc. Younger blood who could be walking in the paths we were walking as young pups 15 years ago--just don't want these cars. The 3/s will probably never be redeemed to cult-classic, coveted-icon status like its 90's contemporaries. The forum rift didn't help things; but the lion's share of the blame there is the complicit sycophants and irrational idealists who kept 3sdie afloat.

What I can tell you is that my new DD is such a small car community that if there ever is a gathering, they pretty much have to open the doors to not just all models from the manufacturer...but pretty much all makes as well.
Personally I think this touches on the issue but doesn't go far enough. The reason this is dying is not new or special. Every active hobby is dying. Autosports, scuba, skiing, travel... All are having trouble because the new crop of "adults" have a rough time sticking with anything, including jobs, hence the lack of funds.

I don't want to come off all "you kids get off my lawn" but I personally have 3 kids who are incapable of watching a full length movie without getting bored. Instant gratification has become king, and anyone who has worked on any car, but especially these, knows that instant gratification isn't even a thought. Hell, I've got the radio fully working in mine last night for the first time since 2010.

I think we will continue to see a migration from very specialized clubs to more inclusive, simply because being unique is both a positive and a flaw. If we start a "Red 3000gt Gen 1 Club", we severely limit our options.

I may attend the AWD event in Ocean city this year. Open to all, held over a weekend should be several hundred cars there. I will have to join Millville raceway for my racing needs.

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[IPD]

^ Yes. I agree with that assessment. I suspect that our peoples are going to become even MORE broke, even MORE hyper-extended financially, etc. Both because of boredom & a constant/endless need for "new"--and social media giving people the ability to appear more prestigious than they actually are. The latter has resulted in tons of people living well outside their means in an effort to appear affluent.

I have a 30 year old friend who is FINALLY (seriously) considering paying off her vehicle in 2 years and just keeping it. Thereby saving $750/month on car payments. Like somehow this thought never occurred to her before. I'm elated that she's coming to her senses, but this seems rather indicative of the mindset among younger people.

p.s.
I guess I was that way about my 3/s (definitely back in 2011) but not anymore. Now? I'm all about buying/renting property. 1 house paid off & rented. 1 on mortgage & rented. 1 on mortgage I'm living in. And I'll probably buy another a few years down the pike. This appears to be my best road to financial security--and if that means forgoing my dream car--that's a choice I've already made.

[EmeraldRegice]

I would have LOVED to go to the Indy NG, it's in my backyard, but I also have been working off and on on various projects on my vehicle since May 1st of this year, planning on finishing the first week of August and it will get to see the open road for the first time hopefully this year. Maybe July if I'm lucky but I don't rush things.

I would have loved to help make NG plans, set up locations, events, etc. but yes like many others, time is a bit tough for me right now.

[Granny]

I knew the Pittsburg trip would probably be our last.

We just simply have too much on our plate with Mikes health issues.
Vacations of any kind are just not going to happen.

I do want to thank you for all of the wonderful adventures at the NG's we attended.

Good times I will always remember!

[ReddVR4]

Always wanted to attend an NG event but I'm in the west coast unfortunately. Perhaps I'll go to the Texas NG, even though its still 18 hours away...

[UTRacerX9]

p.s.
I guess I was that way about my 3/s (definitely back in 2011) but not anymore. Now? I'm all about buying/renting property. 1 house paid off & rented. 1 on mortgage & rented. 1 on mortgage I'm living in. And I'll probably buy another a few years down the pike. This appears to be my best road to financial security--and if that means forgoing my dream car--that's a choice I've already made.

That's wisdom talking... Unless your dream car is something rare like a Ford GT or old Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo that keeps increasing in value, most people lose money on vehicles.

There's a myriad of reasons why the platform is dying, but we're not alone. Even 90's Supras that were once so highly regarded, no one bats an eye over anymore. They still command decent prices, but we're no longer seeing the insane levels we did a few years ago. Perhaps they'll get a shot in the arm once the newest Supra comes out. Personally, I think the platform dying has more to do with Mitsu/Dodge abandoning it. Nissan still very much supports the Z car, and the Z has been around decades longer than the 3/S. Mitsu and Dodge on the other hand have just washed their hands of our cars, and have no interest in reviving the name. At any rate, even if Mitsu were to design a new 3000GT concept, I doubt many people (even among diehards) would really want it after seeing what they've done to the Eclipse, killing off the EVO, etc. I sure wouldn't want to buy a car from a company that seems to be perennially circling the drain in this country.

With no new model arriving, and the remaining cars constantly dwindling over the years, it seems to be a foregone conclusion that the days of a large and active membership base are in the past. Everything that could be done with these cars, has been done. There's just no more excitement.

[94VR4NCVA]

I'd say consider joining another 90's car group in a similar platform, maybe an all Mitsu event would be even better. EVO fans are out there in numbers, Eclipse here and there and whatever else Mitsu. If we join these events that already have a larger group, it would reduce the cost per person to really enjoy all it has to offer.

Not saying to do it, just to research it and see whats out there

[Boost4VR4]

I simply could not do August because we have family here this July and being able to afford a trip to Michigan and entertain in-laws, kids, etc, is very difficult to do. We were planning a trip to Michigan, however, we were going to be in the Metro area. I would have been driving my truck there and the only thing I could really do with the truck is drags.

[Creative]

NG hasn't been enjoying the last couple of years.
Went to like 8 straight NGs, winning many trophies, having a great time but the last year I went (2015) was just kind of. Blah

Money is tight right now but that is not why I didn't sign up. I didn't sign up becuase of the lack of enjoyment. How are you going to give the "Best in Show" a paper certificate for winning? Where is the drive to attend? Why should I put my personal life on hold, spend thousands of dollars on my car to get it ready then more to attend to have an OK time. Maybe the following is dieing and we are all getting older so we have less time to enjoy a week long car event.

Like I said I could have gone without an issue, but why.

[IPD]

That's wisdom talking... Unless your dream car is something rare like a Ford GT or old Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo that keeps increasing in value, most people lose money on vehicles.

There's a myriad of reasons why the platform is dying, but we're not alone. Even 90's Supras that were once so highly regarded, no one bats an eye over anymore. They still command decent prices, but we're no longer seeing the insane levels we did a few years ago. Perhaps they'll get a shot in the arm once the newest Supra comes out. Personally, I think the platform dying has more to do with Mitsu/Dodge abandoning it. Nissan still very much supports the Z car, and the Z has been around decades longer than the 3/S. Mitsu and Dodge on the other hand have just washed their hands of our cars, and have no interest in reviving the name. At any rate, even if Mitsu were to design a new 3000GT concept, I doubt many people (even among diehards) would really want it after seeing what they've done to the Eclipse, killing off the EVO, etc. I sure wouldn't want to buy a car from a company that seems to be perennially circling the drain in this country.

With no new model arriving, and the remaining cars constantly dwindling over the years, it seems to be a foregone conclusion that the days of a large and active membership base are in the past. Everything that could be done with these cars, has been done. There's just no more excitement.

A look at the AWD challenger tells you really all you need to know about the state of sports cars in the USA. The only real "american" sports car with AWD...is only offered with the most anemic engine of the lineup, and naturally aspirated to boot. /facepalm

[RyeH]

I have been in the platform since 2001, and I have always wanted to go to the NG. Usually for me the issue was location. Growing up in El Paso really makes getting ANYWHERE a HUGE task with time and money. However, being in Central Texas doesnt change much either. I have never complained about it being where it usually is because you have to look at population. So, it was never really in the books for me. As for this year, personally, the location is still an issue as it makes it cost more time and more gas and money. Yet there is more. Having kids now, money is always tied up in other things, so cost was an issue. Kids will be in school so timing is as issue. As well as getting ready for the Texas Gathering.

I was talking to another member about this and he brought up a good point. We dont think that the platform is dead. UMG pulling 30+, TXG this year we have 30+ and still months out. What he brought up is how it seems that the NG may be falling short is because people are more focused on the regional gatherings now. They all cost less money to register and attend, they cost less to get there for most attendees, less time to travel so you can easily sneak it in on a weekend w/o vaca time, and you get nearly the same experience (so I am told). I think that plays a big role into. Now that most us true enthusiasts are into our 30s and up with families, it is harder to take a vacation for a car group.

To touch on what others have said. The forum split and the FB groups have KILLED our forums. What I find interesting though is that apparently with the forums dead, it gives a sense of the platform being dead. However, I cant agree with IPD that these cars and its platform is in fact dead. I would be willing to bet that all classics (save corvettes and the like) have a point where they are not a big deal until they are again. It kind of goes with a generation or two. Like said before we are in our 30s and up. Our priorities have changed, however once life slows down abit and we can start enjoying hobbies again to their fullest, the cars will be even more rare, thus sought after , thus making them in that classic genre. But this could just be me being a little biased, however, goto the local car shows, and they have started turning heads like the older classics do, and who knows, may even get better.

[IPD]

Guess we'll see who is is right.

Starion & z30 are already dead platforms.

[RyeH]

Guess we'll see who is is right.

Starion & z30 are already dead platforms.
You probably are. But this fanboy is going to hold on with hope lol

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[DaveSlow]

I've been to every NG since 2004 and had no intentions of missing this one either but when the dates were announce they just didn't line up. I'm going to Hawaii for a wedding for almost 2 weeks right before NG and I took another week for NG it would make almost a month off work. I was hoping the road course would be on Saturday and I'd drive up Friday night

[Endersum]

I was hoping the road course would be on Saturday and I'd drive up Friday night

This. X2

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[mannavr4]

Ok, here are some of my opinions and this is not a shot at Alan or Lori as they have asked for help and I don't believe anyone stepped up to the plate. And I thank them for still trying.

1) As an April announcement isn't terrible for an August event, it's still not early enough. Especially when the event is normally in June. With last year's numbers being so poor, by the time April came I believe most people including myself thought that there would not be an NG17 and made other vacation plans. This event needs to be promoted well in advance with dates and location. And then needs constant hype leading up to the day of the event.

2) Pricing is an issue as not all can afford it. But it is tuff to get the price down without a big turn out.

3) I agree with the paper awards be a terrible idea. With high entry fees and all the time and money spent on the cars and events to win a printed up award feels like a slap in the face especially for the big ones like people's choice and best of show.

As these are not my exact reasons for not going this year, they are definitely a problem.
I personally would love to have still gone as I absolutely love the NG event but just could not.

[Echo419]

Haven't been in like 7-ish years. I don't have the VR4 anymore and I'm just to busy with other things. it sucks I always had a blast. it seems the older I get the more crap I have to do everyday/week/month/year.

[Lori]

I would like to thank everyone for their input thus far, and encourage you to continue. There are two things I'd like to point out... First, UMG and NG can't and shouldn't ever be compared. UMG is a car show and gathering. NG has race events, which changes the playing field completely. We have A TON of overhead for the NG, the largest part being the insurance that we need to carry in case anything happens. While we've had people tell us that the insurance cost should be added to the cost of the race events, that's not really fair, either. People who are spectating need to be insured as well. And those of us working on the tracks have to be insured. That is the one, single largest factor in not comparing the two, and in why we have to be a "pay to play" event. There's no way around it, unless someone is suggesting that Alan and I absorb the cost ourselves.

As for the paper awards... I couldn't agree more that they weren't a great choice. But without the numbers we had expected, we had two choices: no awards, or paper awards. That was it. Alan and I had to put out a good deal of our personal money for that event, and we just couldn't spend well over $1000 on awards. They're not inexpensive. Frequently we spent over $100 on just one award. If that's what is killing the NG, then that's really sad and I'm very sorry.

For those who hadn't noticed, we'd done everything within our power to lower the fees beyond where they'd ever been before. We can't change the race fees when we're not the ones renting the tracks, but we did our best to work out deals for you. As the numbers got lower, we had to make those difficult decisions. We tried renting the track and sharing it, but we couldn't find other groups that were interested in doing that, so we had to do it this way. Unfortunately, that contributes to not being able to get a date sooner, too. I started in June of last year and thought we had something worked out with a group for Pitt. That group doesn't announce their dates until after the first of the year, so when the dates they had didn't work for us, we got stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm not sure how we can get around this... it seems every group waits until the first, and several tracks do, too.

Road courses on weekends are going to be difficult to find unless it's with a very large group - the rental fee is about 25% higher. That, of course, is passed along to the racers...

One last thing... I did a little research and quickly found that our prices are WAY lower than the Ferrari groups. :)

[Alan92RTTT]

Just to agree with Lori. Paper awards were never our 1st choice. We normally buy the awards about a month before the event and any of you that have been to several NG's know that we have gotten come great ones. Unfortunately with the the participation levels of the last two events we did not have money left for anything but paper.


http://3sng.org/galleries/2007/images/IMG_2761.JPG
http://alan.3sgto.org/imagesjpg/20140623_203912.jpg

[familyMAN]

The FB excuse is that, an excuse. This forum has thousands of members in the FB group.

FB didn't kill the platform interest; FB only killed the interest in forums. I've seen as many badass builds as ever of my last 16 years of ownership. Single turbo builds. Widebody. Custom widebody. Stance. Drag. Engine swaps. New aero pieces. Full Restos, Etc. The years old 1/4 ET record will likely be broken yet this year with a 2.0, and then I think it will be broken again shortly after that by a different car with a 4.0l. There are more and more enthusiasts recognizing the value of the platform which you are seeing in both new unique performance builds and the rising prices on clean, 100% stock low mileage cars.

IMO, the platform is anything but dead. It's just takes a different approach to reach the owners.

Someone mentioned autocross on weekends as desirable. The DSM/EVO/GTR Shootout is Aug 18-20 and has autocross on Saturday. Any 3S can participate in autocross, drag test n tune and dyno. A 4Gswapped 3S can compete as a DSM in any event including Max Effort which takes your best autocross run (of 5), best drag run (of 3) and combines them. Lowest score wins. It's favors a powerful autocross car and is a blast. GTRs are EVOs and DSMs run during the same times and it's fun to compare autocross and drag times with the modern AWD imports.

NG seemed to hinge around road course which I believe is niched, especially with this platform. I understand the core group required it, but it doesn't seem to pull in the new owners and sounds like it really contributed to costs. Or maybe the enthusiasm and vision needed to be generated for road course with the new FB owners. (Post Erron videos going sideways! Love his in car vids. Lol. Or some old school supercar drifting vids).

I just don't subscribe to the dead platform talk. Dead forums which is sad. Best place for technical info and discussion.

[IPD]

But that's the problem ^. Dead forums = dead platforms. Maybe not immediately, but sooner or later. With the technical expertise gone, people will start modding cars like it's the dark ages again. That means more ending up at the crusher.

The only reason you've seen so many on FB is likely because those people would NEVER be active in the community/forums--but they're FB-tards & spam their shiz on social media. That's not a community. That's just trying to one-up others by showing how your shit is nicer/better than theirs.

p.s.
"Custom Widebody" was done 1x by a guy in UK, back when I still cared. Cianci's was always shit to me. I'd asked over and over for a better one--nothing was produced. "stance" needs to DIAF, and anyone that does it to a 3/s should commit seppuku. Engine swapping a 3/s w/o keeping it AWD is a sacriledge.

[familyMAN]

Tell that to Supras. Their forum is dead but somehow the platform keeps advancing. Same for many other platforms and the new platforms where enthusiasts go straight to FB for their online automotive social networking.

The forums are dying. Not not the platforms and that includes 3S based on what I've seen after joining FB reluctantly.

There are other custom widebody that have been done in the US. Plus quite a few adapting flares from other platforms.

Just because there aren't more people raising their cars to 4x4 status to follow your car's "stance" doesn't mean stuff isn't happening out there. I cannot believe how many single turbos are out there running around. They aren't posted on the forum. All on FB and instagram.

Our forum playground is basically dead. Sucks, because it's a great archive of technical knowledge, searchable and a much better forum for technical discussion.

[MarkGT531]

i just recently got back into a 3s platform (picked up a 94 vr4 2 weeks ago) and was looking for meets, i just saw this pinned at the top n just found out.

[Echo419]

Tell that to Supras. Their forum is dead but somehow the platform keeps advancing. Same for many other platforms and the new platforms where enthusiasts go straight to FB for their online automotive social networking.

The forums are dying. Not not the platforms and that includes 3S based on what I've seen after joining FB reluctantly.

There are other custom widebody that have been done in the US. Plus quite a few adapting flares from other platforms.

Just because there aren't more people raising their cars to 4x4 status to follow your car's "stance" doesn't mean stuff isn't happening out there. I cannot believe how many single turbos are out there running around. They aren't posted on the forum. All on FB and instagram.

Our forum playground is basically dead. Sucks, because it's a great archive of technical knowledge, searchable and a much better forum for technical discussion.

Feature in the Fast and Furious movie. that's it.

[IPD]

Feature in the Fast and Furious movie. that's it.

:stupid:

Seriously, it's smoke & mirrors. There's always going to be a few outliers who are exceptionally handy & do great work. No matter what platforms they work on--people will admire their work. FB is just a means to get more visibility. Thus it appears that the platform is progressing; but the truth is that the platform is nowhere near progressing, it's just that those outliers' additional visibility gives it that illusion.

"Online automotive social networking" isn't progress. It's shooting the shit, bragging about your e-peen because of the ride you have, and subduing jealous feelings caused by people who have nicer rides.

p.s.
I make no distinction between "hellaflush" and "stance". They are synonymous terms. Neither belongs on a car.

[familyMAN]

:stupid:

Seriously, it's smoke & mirrors. There's always going to be a few outliers who are exceptionally handy & do great work. No matter what platforms they work on--people will admire their work. FB is just a means to get more visibility. Thus it appears that the platform is progressing; but the truth is that the platform is nowhere near progressing, it's just that those outliers' additional visibility gives it that illusion.

"Online automotive social networking" isn't progress. It's shooting the shit, bragging about your e-peen because of the ride you have, and subduing jealous feelings caused by people who have nicer rides.

p.s.
I make no distinction between "hellaflush" and "stance". They are synonymous terms. Neither belongs on a car.

I make no distinction between purposeful 4x4 status and zero eye for aesthetics.

You sure do spend a lot of time on this dead online, social networking forum. Must love shooting your e-peen around to subdue jealousy. Don't try to say you are here for the technical info since you had someone else build most of your car and you talk as much about your SUV anyway.

Our forums are dead. Same for many other platforms that are still thriving. (Maybe not thriving to your aesthetic or lack of performance agenda, but thriving nonetheless)

[familyMAN]

Feature in the Fast and Furious movie. that's it.

Ha! Sure. Maybe it's also because owners go out and race their cars and get featured on 1320video's YouTube channel, and that gets posted on FB.

There are a handful of 3S owners engaging in the new media (YouTube, FB, IG) to show off the platform and their rides. More of that promotion would engage other enthusiasts with the platform.

[Endersum]

While I don't disagree with many of the sentiments expressed here, I think we may have digressed from the main topic, myself included.

In an effort to return, here are a couple suggestions.

1. The travelling circus method.

Pick 2 road course tracks (the more difficult of the 3) that are in the "middle" one near Kentucky, one near Colorado. Alternate years, but go to the same tracks. Shoot for the same week every year. Screw cost, if we plan far enough out and lock it in, the cost will come down.

Pros
- Every other year, NG is closer and probably less than a day drive. On the off years, you either work on your car or the die-hards come anyway.
- You can run the same tracks, altitude, and probably close temp/humidity. Year over year you can benchmark your progress.
- you know where, you know when. You just don't know how much.
- develop a relationship with tracks and venues.

Cons
- new shiny track each year is not an option.
- every other year you have a shitting long drive unless by some chance you live in Tulsa. (Which I DID, BUT, don't anymore. I'm in Philly)
- initial cost may be higher, but when a track knows you are coming (ie booked two years in advance) I imagine that will drop.

I know I've not been the shining example of attendance, however I have been a sponsor in the past and will commit to some level of sponsorship (determined by Lori twisting my arms) if we as a community want to continue this. For me, the money is less of an issue than the burnt time.

2. A second option is to do some forum research and see if we can't find the other disgruntled children that their cars never made it and form the BCCOA, or "Bastard Car Club of America".

3. We all take our balls and go home. Literally and figuratively.

I'm a party to the "woe is me" thought process too. I love (/hate) my car and miss working on it, miss driving it. Miss hanging out with people who do that too.

These are my suggestions for the salvation of NG, and Lori, I wouldn't mind chatting about what you've tried and what works and doesn't. I've been in operations and logistics management for two decades and I might have some tricks. (Or nothing, it's 50/50)

The underlying suggestion would be to stop beating the dead horse we all love. Trigger isn't dead, but he ain't famous anymore. These cars will NEVER be Supras or Skylines. Paul Walker and Vin Diesel won't drive them on the big screen. There will never be a Ken Block gymkhana with one (although I do dream of that)

We must understand that every dollar we spend on these cars is immediately depreciated by 50% (or more) - And love them anyway.

I have two 93s. One is 90% and the other looks like "Christine" if I find a VR4 Spyder I might buy it, KNOWING I will swear at it more than my whiney 12 yr old.

I will either be at the next NG or commit to some funding help, Lori, you can quote me on that. The only stipulation I have is that we need to know by around Jan 15 at the latest when and where. My suggestions, in order of best to worst

1. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week
2. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week
3. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week.

Please feel free to offer constructive criticism. Tell me I'm an idiot. Tell me why it cannot be done. But offer something else as an option...or why are we on this thread?






Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[stealthee]

:stupid:

Seriously, it's smoke & mirrors. There's always going to be a few outliers who are exceptionally handy & do great work. No matter what platforms they work on--people will admire their work. FB is just a means to get more visibility. Thus it appears that the platform is progressing; but the truth is that the platform is nowhere near progressing, it's just that those outliers' additional visibility gives it that illusion.

"Online automotive social networking" isn't progress. It's shooting the shit, bragging about your e-peen because of the ride you have, and subduing jealous feelings caused by people who have nicer rides.

p.s.
I make no distinction between "hellaflush" and "stance". They are synonymous terms. Neither belongs on a car.

You do realize car forums are just another "Online automotive social networking" site?

I don't like Facebook either. In fact I would say I hate it with a passion, but just because people are posting their stuff there doesn't mean it is any less accomplished. A friend of mine, who is a member here but has never really been an active poster is running a stroker with 14bs. There is another 3s at my buddy's shop that has a ton of money into its build. Yet another friend who has a few posts here, but basically doesn't do much online has a build that should make huge horsepower when he gets the time to finish it up.

Just because people aren't posting on our forums doesn't mean the platform is dead. All forums are dying and there are plenty of cars making huge progress all over the place.

[familyMAN]

You do realize car forums are just another "Online automotive social networking" site?
.

No, I don't think he understood that in my original comment. He'll come back with something he thinks is witty though.

[Lori]

While I don't disagree with many of the sentiments expressed here, I think we may have digressed from the main topic, myself included.

In an effort to return, here are a couple suggestions.

1. The travelling circus method.

Pick 2 road course tracks (the more difficult of the 3) that are in the "middle" one near Kentucky, one near Colorado. Alternate years, but go to the same tracks. Shoot for the same week every year. Screw cost, if we plan far enough out and lock it in, the cost will come down.

Pros
- Every other year, NG is closer and probably less than a day drive. On the off years, you either work on your car or the die-hards come anyway.
- You can run the same tracks, altitude, and probably close temp/humidity. Year over year you can benchmark your progress.
- you know where, you know when. You just don't know how much.
- develop a relationship with tracks and venues.

Cons
- new shiny track each year is not an option.
- every other year you have a shitting long drive unless by some chance you live in Tulsa. (Which I DID, BUT, don't anymore. I'm in Philly)
- initial cost may be higher, but when a track knows you are coming (ie booked two years in advance) I imagine that will drop.

I know I've not been the shining example of attendance, however I have been a sponsor in the past and will commit to some level of sponsorship (determined by Lori twisting my arms) if we as a community want to continue this. For me, the money is less of an issue than the burnt time.

2. A second option is to do some forum research and see if we can't find the other disgruntled children that their cars never made it and form the BCCOA, or "Bastard Car Club of America".

3. We all take our balls and go home. Literally and figuratively.

I'm a party to the "woe is me" thought process too. I love (/hate) my car and miss working on it, miss driving it. Miss hanging out with people who do that too.

These are my suggestions for the salvation of NG, and Lori, I wouldn't mind chatting about what you've tried and what works and doesn't. I've been in operations and logistics management for two decades and I might have some tricks. (Or nothing, it's 50/50)

The underlying suggestion would be to stop beating the dead horse we all love. Trigger isn't dead, but he ain't famous anymore. These cars will NEVER be Supras or Skylines. Paul Walker and Vin Diesel won't drive them on the big screen. There will never be a Ken Block gymkhana with one (although I do dream of that)

We must understand that every dollar we spend on these cars is immediately depreciated by 50% (or more) - And love them anyway.

I have two 93s. One is 90% and the other looks like "Christine" if I find a VR4 Spyder I might buy it, KNOWING I will swear at it more than my whiney 12 yr old.

I will either be at the next NG or commit to some funding help, Lori, you can quote me on that. The only stipulation I have is that we need to know by around Jan 15 at the latest when and where. My suggestions, in order of best to worst

1. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week
2. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week
3. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week.

Please feel free to offer constructive criticism. Tell me I'm an idiot. Tell me why it cannot be done. But offer something else as an option...or why are we on this thread?






Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I've given this A LOT of thought. Here are the problems I see: First, we're in Michigan and I own a business here. So having one track in Kentucky (9 hours) and one in Colorado (a 2-3 day drive) would make it impossible for me to run the event. The solution I see is to have one in Kentucky and maybe one in Memphis or St Louis. They're all a bit far for me, but I could make that sacrifice for the good of the event... There's more.

I understand what you're saying about the cost of the track getting lower if we book further out. Unfortunately, I have yet to deal with a track that will do that. Most won't even book before October/November, with no contract until after the first of the year because prices and rules change annually (as does the written contract, of course). Renting a track isn't like a normal business. I can talk to a track or two and see if they'd allow us to be a recurring group (VIR ONLY does things this way). We'd have to choose the tracks first. That brings us to the price... We'd need to have the money up front for this - I can't personally commit to that. To give you an idea, the last track I spoke to personally was approximately $8500 on a weekday, and over $11k on a weekend. Those are rough numbers, and without insurance. It's also JUST the road course track.

I think the BCCOA could work.

Part of the problem here is that for some reason people have stopped trusting me to run this thing. As with any business or event, when you first start and things are new, people love it and can't get enough. But the minute someone doesn't like one thing and points it out, the bandwagon begins. I've been criticized for A LOT of choices I've made, as evidenced here in this thread (though I do appreciate that a few of you have said you're not slamming me, just trying to be helpful). The two biggest and most recent are of course charging people to attend and using certificates instead of trophies in 2015. Not a single person has come out and said, "Hey - maybe they had a reason for doing that." Instead, it's, "That was a poor decision. It was a slap in the face." Things like that... Of course I never meant to offend anyone. But I have HUGE things going on in my personal life (a few know about it - it's been almost 3 years now) that are costing me a fortune. I CAN'T go out and buy trophies on my own right now. If I could, I'd be the first one to do it. I've put my own money into this event to make sure those little things were taken care of so people could have a great time, but those aren't the things that are noticed. So, as the bandwagon got bigger, people stopped trusting me. When we needed to ask people to help us fund this thing, or to donate, people started questioning every choice we made. And I totally understand that. But we gave the information people wanted, and yet a couple of years later we're still faced with "poor decisions" because we didn't do everything people wanted.

Here's the simple truth of it all... This event is a GUESSING GAME. When we're deciding what to charge, we're basing it on prior years' numbers. We don't know if we'll have 200 people and money left over, or we'll have 30 people and not nearly enough. It's extremely difficult. I'm certainly willing to talk to you about it, and I'm willing to look for solutions, but I'm fresh out of suggestions. I can't tell people that they can trust me. I've tried to show them, but that doesn't seem to work. I can't take away the registration fee, or we won't have insurance and other little things that the fee covers (registration packets, t-shirts).

I would certainly be willing to chat about what does/doesn't work. The concern I have is that no decisions have been made about an NG18. Neither Alan nor I believed anyone wanted this event to continue, or that there's enough support for it anymore. But I'm open to chatting - maybe you can change my mind.

Please don't take this post as "woe is me - nobody likes me." It's not that AT ALL. It's just me reflecting and realizing that I seem to be a large part of the problem. I'm unable to make this event work the way people want it to. If someone feels they can do that, then I'm happy to talk to them and walk them through planning it. I've put too much into this to just abandon it and walk away.

[kywhitelightning]

Something I believe the ungrateful crowd is missing here is that, I have never seen any of the NG committee not tirelessly working their butts off from sun up to sun down and sometimes even beyond those times. This only speaks of the time we are actually at the event. This doesn't include the hours and drives required just to set it up. Every year I attended the NG's Lori and company put on a week filled event. Not a couple hour hoorah. The package cost has always been negligible compared to the "show" I was presented with. I've always appreciated their sacrifice to this event. I unfortunately am also a part of the reason for this demise. Attendance is required for it to survive and I have been away from both my car and the forums for quite some time. I was actually shocked when I stopped by to see this event still trying to continue on.

I have no magic fairy dust solution to keep this event going but I offer this to the whole committee for their efforts, thank you all for doing the great things you have done for over a decade!!!!!

Jeff

PS: I just recently retired my NG08 tee shirt and pulled my ragged NG09 tee shirt out of the drawer. Those memories are priceless, TY all!!!!

[curt_gendron]

Reading all of this has gotten my thinking cap on.... Why can't the NG piggyback off of the DSM/EVO/GTR shootout? I'm sure the Shootout would be willing to add a 3/S racing category. Or at the very least 3/Ses can be in the Mitsubishi powered class that they have for drag racing. And there is a autocross there already. Friday night before is a nice open house thing at Bushur's shop.

So for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday we'd attend the shootout. Maybe have some meetup points before going to these events and cruise to them. Maybe a 3/S only car show could be squeezed in on Friday sometime. And then add one or two other 3/S only events on Wednesday or Thursday before that. It would require no insurance. So I just made your total insurance cost almost nothing because all insurance would be covered under the shootout event. You can have car shows, banquets and other social events without any kind of insurance. (or something just for liability. My big car show is whooping $50 for a $1m policy)

Heck, you could even still implement this idea for this year. Find a hotel 20-30 miles outside of Norwalk. Maybe a Cleveland suburb like Elyria. Get a group rate. Have everyone book there. Find a banquet room or even a park shelter to rent for a banquet and then a place for a car show near by. Your insurance is $0. Charge people who want a t-shirt $20 and use the extra money from that to fund any park shelter or trophy costs. Or charge a minimal amount for registration. ($20 or less).

Could be the NG17 at the Shootout. :)

later,
Curt

[familyMAN]

I already suggested that last year after the low turnout and iffy on a future event.....

Still could happen whether formally or informally. There are classes that 3Ss are welcomed in. You can basically park anywhere at the "car show".

[Alan92RTTT]

The 3S National Gathering is not a car show hanging on the coattails of the any other event.

If the NG as a concept can not stand on its own, there is no reason for it to exist.



You want to go to the shootout? Go have a great time.

[2fnloud]

Also, I have no desire to subject my 3S to the abuse of drag racing. beyond the bench marking my latest power adders time to time, drag racing is not my thing.

[familyMAN]

Also, I have no desire to subject my 3S to the abuse of drag racing. beyond the bench marking my latest power adders time to time, drag racing is not my thing.

You can go to watch. Same as NG. Shootout also has autocross, dyno, car show, hotel shens.

But I understand Alan's point too and is it really a "national gathering" then.

Regardless, I'll be there and approximately 10-11 other 3Sers also. Hanging out, autocrossing, drag racing and spectating.

[Maximal]

Just a few ideas now that I've read all these responses...

- What about condensing the event into a weekend? Drags Friday night (if we even need them, I believe that is the least popular event now), Autocross Saturday, Road Course Sunday, quick banquet Sunday night, go home Monday. I know this will work better for me and a few other have commented on weekend events. Sure, costs might be higher but the old supporters of this gathering now have a bit more money than time so it might not be a huge issue.

- I don't personally get why people bitch about pricing as I think it's a fairly affordable event but what about being completely open with pricing? Post the insurance bill, trophy costs, rental fees, etc and then post the math that goes into figuring out the actual event cost.

- Go bare minimum with what's included. Charge extra for the shirt, maybe even use one of those on demand printing services, and don't include food at a banquet...handing out the awards in the hotel parking lot as a BYOB event would probably be more fun now that I think about it. Basically your "participant" fee covers the insurance.

- I know this has been tough but find some volunteers, maybe with marketing experience, to push the event. You really need someone who knows how to work Facebook/Twitter/Instagram/Snapchat to get the word out now. Hell, it might even be worth hiring someone.

- For a track suggestion, Nelson Ledges (near Youngstown, Ohio) is trying to revive itself and has recently undergone a repave that I've heard is decent. There's one group that handles track rentals so that may be easier to get a data scheduled further in advance and there would be less fighting for a weekend event. I see that they at least have a section on the website for track rentals as well so maybe that'll be an option again. There's a drag strip 45 minutes away but not sure about auto-x venues.

[Alan92RTTT]

The way I see the shootout for the average 3S owner.

An all day drag event where 3S will be in 1-2 groups and probably not have more then 1-2 winners.
An all day autocross were 3S will get lumped into existing groups and get out performed across the board. (with a few exceptions that prove the rule. )
A car show


For anyone that wonders why we picked MI for the event.
A road course close that we can partner with. Cost to NG: $0.00
US-131 lets us run during test and tune. Cost to NG: $25.00 per racer + trophies
Tirerack. Cost to NG: Track $0.00 + Insurance (est:$1100) + trophies

NO other place can we go and get fixed costs that low.

Had NG17 had turnout the same and NG16 it would have been fine financially.

[Endersum]

Just a few ideas now that I've read all these responses...

- What about condensing the event into a weekend? Drags Friday night (if we even need them, I believe that is the least popular event now), Autocross Saturday, Road Course Sunday, quick banquet Sunday night, go home Monday. I know this will work better for me and a few other have commented on weekend events. Sure, costs might be higher but the old supporters of this gathering now have a bit more money than time so it might not be a huge issue.

Perfect example, I just dropped $2500 for Jeep Jamboree this year. Two events. Both are Friday/Saturday. I'm working all day Thursday then flogging my Jeep all the way there overnight to be ready in the AM. I would have paid another $1000 just to have my two vaca days back. I also cannot bring my kids to the second one as they are in school, and that gives me sad face too. I cannot get these kids into this if they can't ever go. Missing a day's doable, missing a week is not.

Again, I've loved the NGs I've made it to. Lori and Alan do a hell of a job. I just thought a voice of "why am I not there?" was warranted.



Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[stealthee]

As has been said, if you want to go to the Shootout, then go. No one is stopping you. I went last year, and have every intention of going this year. It will be a "national gathering" of sorts with a solid handful of 3ser's there, but it will not be, and will be THE National Gathering.

I hope to actually get to meet some of the 3ser's this year. Things were still new to me there last year and I never got to meet up with any of the ones there, other than Chase Hubbel (Can't remember what he posts as here) who actually ran into me in the pits. Its a great event, but it doesn't have that meet vibe, especially on a national level. Regardless I look forward to meeting people that I have not previous.

As to the NG, I am by no means an event organizer. At one time I had a few people looking to me to keep the 3spa thing going. I just don't have that ability, so I am of no real help for suggestions. There were a few things mentioned by others which likely hurt the numbers.

One thing that I am sure will continue to happen, no matter how successful an event may be put on in the future, is people will bitch. This is the internet and people always find a reason to bitch. Don't let the bitchiness fool you into thinking you guys are doing a bad job.

[Beau_Jester]

I am sorry all of your work to put the NG together this year was for naught. I enjoy these events and attend when I can. I hope it can be resurrected next year.

Some of my thoughts:

I think a survey of all 3sgto members is in order to see the demographics of the group and how an NG could fit into their summer plans. Some adjustments of the format of the event may be needed.

Promotion is everything.
Ideas: Videos on You tube of autocross, drag races, road course with links to videos in emails, 3sgto forum and Facebook. Testimonials of drivers on video after completing a run full of energy and emotion. Create rivalry and competition between drivers. Have an NG YouTube channel.

Timing of this years event is bad for drivers with families and school age kids. June and July are the best months.

Use Facebook to promote the NG and invite people to check out the forum.

[alexw3000gt]

Eh the platform is far from dead. I along with several other people I know within a 50 mile radius own multiple of them, and are building and rebuilding them all the time.

The vendors are far from struggling. 3SX is releasing new stuff all the time, Chris is always posting about new stuff and orders, a new player (IMR I think) has just started making new things and selling them on FB. Aaron is still picking up and parting out failed builds and such, which in turn goes out to 20+ other people who need the parts to finish their builds.

I know at least a dozen 3S people will be at the Shootout, I'm lucky in that it's local to me. Don't know if I would attend if it were more than a few hours away. For what it's worth, I placed 4th or 5th in the AutoX last year on stock turbos. The 3S is very competitive against the DSMs.

No, the platform is alive and kickin'. The problem is that forums are outdated and dead. All the action is on the Facebook groups.

[Spyder95VR4]

For me it was just distance. There should be an alternating venue. If it was Memphis I'd be there in a second. When I went to the Indy NG that was really too far but I made the sacrifice. Had a blast! I understand the reasons for the location change but for a lot of people it was just too far away.

You guys have always done a great job with the event, don't let the comments here feel like a personal attack. I read the whole thread and I didn't see them that way. You asked for constructive discussion and you got one. I can see why someone would be upset about the trophies. Imagine putting all that effort into the car and the commitment to the trip and only get a piece of paper? I would be kind of disappointed also regardless of the backstory of why. There are fewer and fewer active members and running cars these days too. With that you are going to have to branch out and use social media. Gotta get the word out there across the nation. A National Gathering should be exactly that. With the event being so far away it felt more like a regional gathering. A national event should be more centrally located or at least alternated locations. I cannot add much more than what's already been said.

You guys have done an amazing job for sure. If you can no longer have it then we will need someone to step up next year. Or at the very least have a joint event with another group. I know Alan was concerned about that but it's better than not having one at all.

[The Linchpin]

Was bummed to read this.

[Lori]

For me it was just distance. There should be an alternating venue. If it was Memphis I'd be there in a second. When I went to the Indy NG that was really too far but I made the sacrifice. Had a blast! I understand the reasons for the location change but for a lot of people it was just too far away.

You guys have always done a great job with the event, don't let the comments here feel like a personal attack. I read the whole thread and I didn't see them that way. You asked for constructive discussion and you got one. I can see why someone would be upset about the trophies. Imagine putting all that effort into the car and the commitment to the trip and only get a piece of paper? I would be kind of disappointed also regardless of the backstory of why. There are fewer and fewer active members and running cars these days too. With that you are going to have to branch out and use social media. Gotta get the word out there across the nation. A National Gathering should be exactly that. With the event being so far away it felt more like a regional gathering. A national event should be more centrally located or at least alternated locations. I cannot add much more than what's already been said.

You guys have done an amazing job for sure. If you can no longer have it then we will need someone to step up next year. Or at the very least have a joint event with another group. I know Alan was concerned about that but it's better than not having one at all.

Thank you for your comments. There was really only one person here that I took as a personal attack, but that person has always been hyper-critical so I ignore it. I understand people being disappointed about not getting trophies, but I also hoped they'd understand that we had to make a choice between a trophy and an event, which ultimately would have eliminated both. It is what it is, and what's done is done, but of course it hurts me to have someone say that I essentially slapped them across the face. I can only imagine how they would have felt if we'd canceled a race event instead. Maybe road course, since that one didn't have trophies. It's a fine line we walk with that.

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll find anyone to step up and take over. We put the word out there that we needed help for this year. We received inquiries, people who said they were interested, but then ultimately never made the commitment. I had one person who said he'd find out if he could commit to us only if we wanted to commit to him first. The whole thing kinda showed me that we don't have the commitment to the event that we used to have.

I know everyone wants a date sooner, but I've already explained how the process works. We tried planning an event and getting others to join. That didn't work. So now the only way to continue is to join other events. That puts us at their mercy for getting dates. It's just not a great place to be...

[2fnloud]

I have noticed Kenny showing glass drink ware as his received trophy, is this something that could be looked into?

[DocWalt]

https://scontent.fphl2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20139876_10159107437005615_3599767591304244650_n.j pg?oh=7578b569691bdeccd8c41d64857d9edc&oe=59F9DDA1

https://scontent.fphl2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20031992_10159107437285615_2164408607578519127_n.j pg?oh=20ffbf92d01d8d82291836db58cf492b&oe=5A0AE89B

Said glassware... sponsored even

[mannavr4]

To Lori, I apologize for the slap in the face comment. I'm sorry I worded it that way and did not mean it as an attack. But the way that comment stays in your mind is probably similar to the way it feels to me to get a piece of paper. I meaningfully thank you in person every year for doing what you and Alan do. But the way am sure you feel from reading people's comments that just don't appreciate or understand the work you two put into these events is they way we all feel about our cars and getting paper awards. Sorry if it sounds mean as i don't mean it to. Just trying to show you at least my side. But even with all this said, I would still go to every NG and just could not go this year and was not happy about it.

[donniekak]

Shootout was great this year. More 3s's than last year.

[JohnnyTurbo]

My reasons for staying away:
1) (main one) TWC electrically died in Oct 2012 and won't start... cranks, but won't fire. I honestly haven't spent any time on the issue after the first hour or so when I got it home from the N.C. trip. It just sits in the pole barn with Carla's '92 R/T and my '93 VR4 (which is celebrating 6 years up on jackstands. (Oh yeah, TWC stands for The White Car) I guess the root cause can be described as " lack of interest"

2) vacation time - (as important as #1) I have to have vacation requests in by Feb 28th for the year. With being #5 on the vacation seniority list I can get just about anything submitted by that date. anything after that date is next to impossible to get a whole week off from memorial day to labor day because a group of people take mondays and fridays off all summer. with only 4 people allowed off at a time in my group, it's impossible to get a solid week off. So for me, the date would have to be in stone before Feb 28th.

3) hurt my car doing the drags on NG and broke it the next day on the road course. money paid and no RC fun :( IMHO drags are detrimental to our cars and its time has come and gone as the participation numbers were showing. AND the St Louis boys dropping two driveshafts on the dragstrip one year cemented my position on the subject. Time and money wasted on track rental and insurance.

4) I don't drink beyond a few for a lot of reasons. The drunken recklessness of the shopping cart drags left a real bad taste in my mouth considering what could have happened. I know you don't like hearing about it, but if you had the industrial safety training I have had for work from OSHA and UAW/GM Safety Dept, you would see the event in a different light. People getting drunk in the parking lot, I had no problem with. I enjoyed talking and interacting with them... except for the gun, shopping carts and air bag cannon.

Thoughts: Planning the NG is a task where the accolades pale to the effort put forth. Lori can and has attested to this more than once over the years. If it weren't for her (and Alan's) efforts, the NG would have ceased a few years ago. Yes, I have locked horns with Lori a few times, but I'll also give her credit where she deserves it.
I see vacation time off and personal family commitments as the number one and two reasons for NG attendance drop off. I'll admit that the last one I attended the bang did not equal the buck for me and that could hold true for others. Step back as advised and simplify and streamline.
Dragway 42 (http://www.dragway42.com/) in W Salem Ohio underwent a mega million dollar renovation and Akron Sports Car Club holds their autocross events there now. They are the ones that manage the autox event at Norwalk Raceway for Buschur's shootout and do a great job. (www.autox.net (http://www.autox.net)) A regular Sunday costs $40 - $45 with around 70 cars showing up, so I am sure that could be hired to manage a NG autox for a similar amount and there might be no insurance liability doing it that way.
I would also suggest having NG central a little south of W Salem on I-71 in Ashland Ohio where Mid-Ohio is just a little more down I-71 in Mansfield. Possible to piggy back on another group's event down there? For a car show there are a ton of Saturday parking lot cruise-ins around the area ( a few Quaker Steak & Lubes) that we could be a part of or go into down town Ashland around Ashland University and hold a 3S show like usual.
For the adventurists, a 60 minute drive right up I-71NB will get you to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Just some thoughts.

After thoughts: maybe drop the road course all together in favor of the ASCC run autox event ( which average a mile + course) and for the race adrenaline, the group could go to Dragway 42 (http://www.dragway42.com/) on their Wed or Fri night program as customers, avoiding insurance costs altogether as that would be covered in the D42 admission.
Those who wish to beat on their fragile old cars can do so while the rest of us watch them and the other race cars run. Then a planned road trip into Cleveland to the R&R Hall O fame could replace the road course event time wise.

[2fnloud]

Road Course was the biggest draw to me, I share the same sentiment with drag racing.

[futurevr4man]

That's a solid outline Johnny gave IMHO. Fairly local to A&L, avoids risk to them, gives all the options that the normal NG has with plenty of options for other shens to happen in the surrounding area. Win/win/win IMO.

Side note: I've always wanted our car shows to be a part of another group. I like seeing 3S's, but I like showing them off to strangers even more. The NG has always pulled some of the nicest ones in... why not let the world see how nice they can be? (I liked the Indiana circle in downtown for instance, but in St. Louis, while it looked cool, almost no one came and saw the cars, same with KY).

Lastly, and this I can only say for myself, I've been to like 5 or 6 NG's and only had my car there twice I think... I go for the people. If everyone is so big on racing, then you can do it on your spare time. Having a gathering die is a shame because it's hard to get the collective of 3S's together... there are plenty of race events all around the US that anyone can attend at any time on their own convenient schedule. Proof in point, all other gatherings that exist that don't focus on the racing but rather focus on the community coming together are thriving... and I think that's what it's all about.

Just my $.02

[familyMAN]

My reasons for staying away:
1) (main one) TWC electrically died in Oct 2012 and won't start... cranks, but won't fire. I honestly haven't spent any time on the issue after the first hour or so when I got it home from the N.C. trip. It just sits in the pole barn with Carla's '92 R/T and my '93 VR4 (which is celebrating 6 years up on jackstands. (Oh yeah, TWC stands for The White Car) I guess the root cause can be described as " lack of interest"

2) vacation time - (as important as #1) I have to have vacation requests in by Feb 28th for the year. With being #5 on the vacation seniority list I can get just about anything submitted by that date. anything after that date is next to impossible to get a whole week off from memorial day to labor day because a group of people take mondays and fridays off all summer. with only 4 people allowed off at a time in my group, it's impossible to get a solid week off. So for me, the date would have to be in stone before Feb 28th.

3) hurt my car doing the drags on NG and broke it the next day on the road course. money paid and no RC fun :( IMHO drags are detrimental to our cars and its time has come and gone as the participation numbers were showing. AND the St Louis boys dropping two driveshafts on the dragstrip one year cemented my position on the subject. Time and money wasted on track rental and insurance.

4) I don't drink beyond a few for a lot of reasons. The drunken recklessness of the shopping cart drags left a real bad taste in my mouth considering what could have happened. I know you don't like hearing about it, but if you had the industrial safety training I have had for work from OSHA and UAW/GM Safety Dept, you would see the event in a different light. People getting drunk in the parking lot, I had no problem with. I enjoyed talking and interacting with them... except for the gun, shopping carts and air bag cannon.

Thoughts: Planning the NG is a task where the accolades pale to the effort put forth. Lori can and has attested to this more than once over the years. If it weren't for her (and Alan's) efforts, the NG would have ceased a few years ago. Yes, I have locked horns with Lori a few times, but I'll also give her credit where she deserves it.
I see vacation time off and personal family commitments as the number one and two reasons for NG attendance drop off. I'll admit that the last one I attended the bang did not equal the buck for me and that could hold true for others. Step back as advised and simplify and streamline.
Dragway 42 (http://www.dragway42.com/) in W Salem Ohio underwent a mega million dollar renovation and Akron Sports Car Club holds their autocross events there now. They are the ones that manage the autox event at Norwalk Raceway for Buschur's shootout and do a great job. (www.autox.net (http://www.autox.net)) A regular Sunday costs $40 - $45 with around 70 cars showing up, so I am sure that could be hired to manage a NG autox for a similar amount and there might be no insurance liability doing it that way.
I would also suggest having NG central a little south of W Salem on I-71 in Ashland Ohio where Mid-Ohio is just a little more down I-71 in Mansfield. Possible to piggy back on another group's event down there? For a car show there are a ton of Saturday parking lot cruise-ins around the area ( a few Quaker Steak & Lubes) that we could be a part of or go into down town Ashland around Ashland University and hold a 3S show like usual.
For the adventurists, a 60 minute drive right up I-71NB will get you to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Just some thoughts.

After thoughts: maybe drop the road course all together in favor of the ASCC run autox event ( which average a mile + course) and for the race adrenaline, the group could go to Dragway 42 (http://www.dragway42.com/) on their Wed or Fri night program as customers, avoiding insurance costs altogether as that would be covered in the D42 admission.
Those who wish to beat on their fragile old cars can do so while the rest of us watch them and the other race cars run. Then a planned road trip into Cleveland to the R&R Hall O fame could replace the road course event time wise.

Good post.

The Shootout has all of this and a dyno day and is well organized without much drama.

The AutoX course isn't 1 mile but it's plenty fun.
Drag racing, yeah tons of that.
Hangin out...I had a blast seeing old friends and making new ones.
Drunken sheningans...tequila was flowing but tame crowd at the hotel we stay at. Other hotels are wild if you want that.
Car show...they shut down the town on Friday for the car show and dyno day. Plus lots of other cool mitsu's to see and show our cars off too.

Something else the Shootout has that the NG will never have...media coverage. Dsport magazine and loads of popular YouTube channels (including big names like Haltech and FIC).

I'll be at the Shootout again next year with my family and friends. It can easily be made our NG. Literally, just show up and have fun.

[Echo419]

I would like to make it to one of these. got an airbag out of an old DSM I could bring.

[2fnloud]

I would like to make it to one of these. got an airbag out of an old DSM I could bring.

Bad joke.

[Mr.I.]

Is there a plan for the 2018 one? Or anything closer to Boston?
Mid-West is too far for me, and I was able to find a small thread on the North-Eastern one around June...

[familyMAN]

2018 is the DSM/EVO/GTR Shootout. We have at least a dozen planning to come so far including Brian’s 1100awhp beast coming from Florida. You may have seen it recently on TRC YouTube review or Street Race Magazine article.

[Echo419]

Bad joke.

only if you're dumb enough to think setting one off face down in a parking lot full of cars is a good idea or liable for such actions. ;)

otherwise it's hilarious. :lol:

[2fnloud]

Well someone may or may have not though it was a good idea.

[stealthee]

2018 is the DSM/EVO/GTR Shootout. We have at least a dozen planning to come so far including Brian’s 1100awhp beast coming from Florida. You may have seen it recently on TRC YouTube review or Street Race Magazine article.

I may not make it to the shootout this year. My cousin is getting married on the 18th and we're close and I'm in it so I have to be there. Going to try like hell to make it out for Sunday though.

[Echo419]

Well someone may or may have not though it was a good idea.

no argument on that one. ;)

[anyonebutme]

In 1/4 defense of that group of someones, they technically didn't set it off in the same parking lot as a group of cars. It was set off in the next door store's lot. Was almost as funny as your reaction to having a hot sauce packet tossed into your sunroof from across the lot as you drove away, Bobby.

[Echo419]

iirc I damn near murdered someone that night... although I'm not sure. it's been a while.

[futurevr4man]

Shootout and BRG are the events I'm going to this year. :/