What HP level can our cars reach using stock housing

[Back-to-Doo]

As I build up our car through it's stages I would like to make sure I don't have to buy things twice.
I am thinking ending up just at 500hp as a goal for our car. (roughly 150hp more than stock at the wheels)

Namely right now I am looking at exhaust manifolds, pre cat, and down pipe that bolt to stock turbos.

So I guess my question is; Is my goal obtainable using the stock turbo housing and headers and such?

I have seen the Stage tuning for our cars, but don't clearly know when I can add the headers/exhaust.

If I add the headers/exhaust with only CAI will I notice much HP increase? Or is this TOO soon to add them. (the engine is out of the car right now so this is a good time to add these)

Please keep in mind through out ALL my questions:
I want the car to remain as user friendly as a STOCK car and not much louder while driven at NORMAL speeds. I really like the 'sleeper' additude and plan to keep it under the radar through out the build up ...

TIA

[x2xtreme360]

Our cars aren't rated at the wheels. We have 300 CRANK horsepower (on 1g's). You're looking at about 225WHP on a stock 1g vr4. Exhaust manis, precats, and dowpipe wont yield you more than 20hp. Another thing: you don't need a CAI for a VR4. I don't know of anyone who has ever installed one. That's what intercoolers are for;)

You wont get anywhere near 500WHP on stock turbos. I would start looking at 15G's or something.

[thor'svr4]

Our cars aren't rated at the wheels. We have 300 CRANK horsepower (on 1g's). You're looking at about 275WHP on a stock 1g vr4. Exhaust manis, precats, and dowpipe wont yield you more than 20hp. Another thing: you don't need a CAI for a VR4. I don't know of anyone who has ever installed one. That's what intercoolers are for;)

You wont get anywhere near 500WHP on stock turbos. I would start looking at 15G's or something.

dammmmmm i wish i had your drivetrain loss :lol7:
stock your looking at ~230ish awhp... if shes healthy.

personaly i say dont waste the money on td04 headers. if you want 500awhp your going to NEED to upgrade the turbos. you could grab a set of 3sx 19T's if you want to keep the turbo housing stock but ive gotta ask, why the hell does it matter if you change the turbo housing? its not like you can even see the dam turbos lmao.

this is about as sleeper as you can get
http://www.dynamicracing.com/mw/images/8/84/ETS_FMIC_install_004.jpg

build your car like this, tell everyone its almost stock except for an aftermarket air filter, then woop ass.

[x2xtreme360]

dammmmmm i wish i had your drivetrain loss :lol7:
stock your looking at ~230ish awhp... if shes healthy.

personaly i say dont waste the money on td04 headers. if you want 500awhp your going to NEED to upgrade the turbos. you could grab a set of 3sx 19T's if you want to keep the turbo housing stock but ive gotta ask, why the hell does it matter if you change the turbo housing? its not like you can even see the dam turbos lmao.

this is about as sleeper as you can get
http://www.dynamicracing.com/mw/images/8/84/ETS_FMIC_install_004.jpg

build your car like this, tell everyone its almost stock except for an aftermarket air filter, then woop ass.

That was a HUGE typo on my part:lol:. I meant 225hp.... not 275.

[GTwizard]

Nice tuck with the front turbo pipe. Love to C pics of how you did that. PLEEEZ

Sorry for jacking.

[thor'svr4]

lol i WISH that was my car, its snake skinners white stealth. i think that the pipe is just tucked because this pic was supposed to show off the ETS FMIC. i was sure he had the kits on dynamicracing.com but i cant find them on his site, only 3sx.

http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_viewItemBundle.asp?idProduct=27374

thats the fmic kit that routes the ic pipe down instead of up by the radiator

edit: good catch on that though, i was looking at that pic wondering what was missing from that engine bay

[Back-to-Doo]

Sorry I meant Fuel Injection Peformance kit (FIPK) but I couldn't remember what they were called for the Stealth. (but it is essentially the same as the CAI on my wifes Mustang, but without the heat shield!!)

So you guys are saying, staying with stock housing turbos, I can't reach my goal of 500 crank HP? IF so this is exactly why I asked this question. Thank you!! I didn't want to spend $$ today on items I can use later in my build.

As for my 'sleeper' comment, once the hood is lifted I don't care what can be seen as 'add ons'!

On a side note: All chassis dynos measure at wheel HP and then calculate crank HP so I am unsure of that reply. Once we add ANY power adder, bolt on, tune, what have you, there are 2 ways to measure the change. (chassis dyno or change in 'distance over time')

[x2xtreme360]

Sorry I meant Fuel Injection Peformance kit (FIPK) but I couldn't remember what they were called for the Stealth. (but it is essentially the same as the CAI on my wifes Mustang, but without the heat shield!!)

So you guys are saying, staying with stock housing turbos, I can't reach my goal of 500 crank HP? IF so this is exactly why I asked this question. Thank you!! I didn't want to spend $$ today on items I can use later in my build.

As for my 'sleeper' comment, once the hood is lifted I don't care what can be seen as 'add ons'!

On a side note: All chassis dynos measure at wheel HP and then calculate crank HP so I am unsure of that reply. Once we add ANY power adder, bolt on, tune, what have you, there are 2 ways to measure the change. (chassis dyno or change in 'distance over time')

Dyno's usually only measure WHP. Idk of any that translate into CHP because every car has a different amount of drivetrain loss so that would yield incorrect information.

But yes, you need upgraded turbos to run 500CHP. I would say at least a set of 13G turbos for 500CHP.

[Back-to-Doo]

x2xtreme360, Thank you!
(also thanks for not being offended by my dyno comment as it wasn't meant in an offensive way at all!!)

Being 46, I am not new to high HP boosted cars and toys. Current car is right at 540hp (yes at the crank) tuned Saleen SC281.

I am giving our 94 Stealth TT a new lease on life and unleash some potential HP!

Jeff

[thor'svr4]

i would say to just look at different turbos and there prices.
if i were to try to oversimplify things i would describe it like this.
there are two 'classes' of turbos for these cars. TD04 and TD05.
there are many turbos in each class. in order of avg whp
TD04: stock 9B < 13G < 15G or 13T < 16T < 19T
9B = 275 cfm
13G = 360cfm
15G and 13T are BOTH rated at 428cfm. 15G's are just slightly easier to install and in general seam to make a few more hp than 13T's. But 13T's spool slightly faster and are less expensive. in general though there practically the same turbo.
16T = 435cfm
19T = 500cfm

TD05 turbos will put you wayyyyyyy over your hp goal and just cost you more money than you need to spend. i would say 13G's could get you to a little under 500chp, but it will feel slower than you might think since AWD drive train loss sucks. we lose ~70hp out of the stock 300 in the drive train so you do the math... 500chp really isnt that fast.

no matter what if you go to a larger turbo and start trying to get some good whp your going to need new injectors, fuel pump, and fuel pump hotwire. these mods are pretty cheep and easy to do. but you might want to consider an intercooler upgrade (upgraded sidemounts or a fmic). also you will also need a boost controller and something to control all the extra fuel.

depending on your budget i would suggest 15G's, pricematchedparts FMIC, walbro 255 fuel pump, any fuel pump hotwire kit, 550cc injectors, and something to tune with such as a SAFC.

look at stealth316.com for other 'turbo upgrades' to compare what turbos are direct bolt on (td04)
also check 3si.org 'turbo' section for the sticky of all the dyno charts. that will give you a good idea of what each turbo produced for hp.

[MR2]

I quite like how OEM the black paint looks on that intake pipe :)

[mb7050]

Best bolt on turbo upgrade out there today.
http://www.dynamicracing.com/customer/product.php?productid=584&cat=189&page=1

[blindmist]

Let me put it this way. If you really want to do it, and do it right, this is what you need.

Ross 8.5:1 from 3SX.
You can use stock rods, but I recommend the 3SX custom rods.
Forged Crank.
All of this will need professional machining of course.
This is all really optional here, but this will make a damn good motor than wont come apart, assuming you built it right.


13T's are the shit, no joke. Look up RobBeck I think is his name. They pull HARD. They will get you to the 500CHP and even to the 500AWHP. I recommend 550cc's, Walbro 255lph, Greddy Emanage Ultimate. With the EMU, you can control fuel, timing, have an electronic boost controller, and manage everything you need to do, for just as much money, if not less, as a stand alone electronic boost controller, and fuel controller. Hotwired fuel pump is a must as well. Walbro loves it.

[green-lantern]

x2xtreme360, Thank you!
(also thanks for not being offended by my dyno comment as it wasn't meant in an offensive way at all!!)

Being 46, I am not new to high HP boosted cars and toys. Current car is right at 540hp (yes at the crank) tuned Saleen SC281.

I am giving our 94 Stealth TT a new lease on life and unleash some potential HP!

Jeff

Dude don't hold out, pics of the Saleen!

[thor'svr4]

Let me put it this way. If you really want to do it, and do it right, this is what you need.

Ross 8.5:1 from 3SX.
You can use stock rods, but I recommend the 3SX custom rods.
Forged Crank.
All of this will need professional machining of course.
This is all really optional here, but this will make a damn good motor than wont come apart, assuming you built it right.


13T's are the shit, no joke. Look up RobBeck I think is his name. They pull HARD. They will get you to the 500CHP and even to the 500AWHP. I recommend 550cc's, Walbro 255lph, Greddy Emanage Ultimate. With the EMU, you can control fuel, timing, have an electronic boost controller, and manage everything you need to do, for just as much money, if not less, as a stand alone electronic boost controller, and fuel controller. Hotwired fuel pump is a must as well. Walbro loves it.

man that setup sounds really really familiar lol. i need to get back on the dyno though. im really hoping to see 500awhp without w/m injection on a stock exhaust, or atleast stock open dp. if not ill make my own exhaust and see how close i am.

on a side note i really like having the maft so no matter what (even if i get a emanage or safc or whatever) im going to keep the blow through. everything is so much nicer when you dont have to worry about boost leaks in the ic piping or oil from the K&N filters messing with the stock mafs.

[BaadVR4]

At the risk of being a "party pooper", I would suggest that the single most important consideration is the basic engine. My 95 VR4 made 535 AWHP on WRX housing 19Ts. But I started with a fully built motor. The H-beam rods added strength, the Ross pistons lightened the weight of the reciprocating assembly. Those mods are for longevity at high boost/high HP. The power is mainly a function of how good the heads are. I have a local porting shop that does excellent work. I have 1mm oversize intake and exhaust valves, stock cams/springs/retainers. I also have meth injection and all the supporting mods for increased boost: AEM/FMIC/Dual Walbros/680 injectors/HKS DLI/MSD Coils/Taylor plug wires/eBay SS headers/gutted rear pre-cat/custom DP and exhaust. I have recently upgraded to TD05 16Gs but haven't tuned it yet. My son's car has an identical set up with TD05 16Gs and he makes 561 AWHP on pump gas at 19 psi boost. The car is my DD, though I don't drive it everyday as I'm retired. But it does get driven several times a week, all "city" driving. Before I built the motor, I made about 385 AWHP with stock housing 19Ts and an otherwise fully stock set up. Ran out of fuel. Your goal is achievable, but, IMHO, will require a "fully modified" engine. If you are going to spend the money, why not go the the TD05 16G set up and have the potential for 600 AWHP on pump gas for the same price? And it will be streetable; the noise level will depend on which exhaust system you use. A stock exhaust will cause a small power loss but will retain the "stock" noise level. Just my 1.5 cents worth. And I'm 65, with over 40 years of hotrodding experience.

[mb7050]

I would stick with the stock engine with good tune :mitsu: .

[Back-to-Doo]

Dude don't hold out, pics of the Saleen!

The summer toys:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/05SDI/Summer%202009/photo8-1.jpg

[SnakeSkinner]

dammmmmm i wish i had your drivetrain loss :lol7:
stock your looking at ~230ish awhp... if shes healthy.

personaly i say dont waste the money on td04 headers. if you want 500awhp your going to NEED to upgrade the turbos. you could grab a set of 3sx 19T's if you want to keep the turbo housing stock but ive gotta ask, why the hell does it matter if you change the turbo housing? its not like you can even see the dam turbos lmao.

this is about as sleeper as you can get
http://www.dynamicracing.com/mw/images/8/84/ETS_FMIC_install_004.jpg

build your car like this, tell everyone its almost stock except for an aftermarket air filter, then woop ass.

Did you really just post a pic of MY car with DR750's on it along with a add for 3sx 19T turbos?

[SnakeSkinner]

As I build up our car through it's stages I would like to make sure I don't have to buy things twice.
I am thinking ending up just at 500hp as a goal for our car. (roughly 150hp more than stock at the wheels)

Namely right now I am looking at exhaust manifolds, pre cat, and down pipe that bolt to stock turbos.

So I guess my question is; Is my goal obtainable using the stock turbo housing and headers and such?

I have seen the Stage tuning for our cars, but don't clearly know when I can add the headers/exhaust.

If I add the headers/exhaust with only CAI will I notice much HP increase? Or is this TOO soon to add them. (the engine is out of the car right now so this is a good time to add these)

Please keep in mind through out ALL my questions:
I want the car to remain as user friendly as a STOCK car and not much louder while driven at NORMAL speeds. I really like the 'sleeper' additude and plan to keep it under the radar through out the build up ...

TIA



My car with direct bolt on DR750 turbos put down 604 awhp and 612 awtq at 25psi of boost with a TOTALY stock 80K+ mile 16yr old motor that came in the car when it was built. Stock heads, stock cams, stock block, stock rods, stock pistions, sock Exhaust manifolds the list goes on. At that time I also had stock waist gate actuators (6psi) on the car so boost was dropping off up top. I now have Forged MS WG actuators on there and have held over 30psi of boost to red line on the street.

Here is the under hood pic of MY car

http://www.dynamicracing.com/mw/images/8/84/ETS_FMIC_install_004.jpg

[SnakeSkinner]

Let me put it this way. If you really want to do it, and do it right, this is what you need.

Ross 8.5:1 from 3SX.
You can use stock rods, but I recommend the 3SX custom rods.
Forged Crank.
All of this will need professional machining of course.
This is all really optional here, but this will make a damn good motor than wont come apart, assuming you built it right.


13T's are the shit, no joke. Look up RobBeck I think is his name. They pull HARD. They will get you to the 500CHP and even to the 500AWHP. I recommend 550cc's, Walbro 255lph, Greddy Emanage Ultimate. With the EMU, you can control fuel, timing, have an electronic boost controller, and manage everything you need to do, for just as much money, if not less, as a stand alone electronic boost controller, and fuel controller. Hotwired fuel pump is a must as well. Walbro loves it.


500 AWHP with 13T's? I think not. at least not on a Dynojet

[MR2]

SO many rofls :D

[BaadVR4]

It doesn't matter how expensive the parts are, if it's not tuned right, it won't last.
The single most important thing is the tune, you can't do that without datalogging.

Steve

I don't fully agree. Yes, the tune has to be right to get the available HP, but if the rings don't seal and the heads don't flow, all the data logging/tuning in the world isn't going to get more power.

[Lugnut]

These are the top bolt ons known to exist and the answer to your question .. The baddest td04 out there .. DR750's .. 600 hundred plus wheel .. Instant spool .. Certain orgasm .. Arent they sexxy .. Yes they are .. And yes your welcome :Clap: 13071308

[CoopKill]

And have gone down in price!

If they hit $2995 I am so there!!!

[blindmist]

500 AWHP with 13T's? I think not. at least not on a Dynojet

Well I am at 409AWHP right now on my 13T's @14.5psi w/ 54% IDC on my RC550's. I think with 8 more psi or so I can hit 500AWHP. I'll post the numbers when it's done.

[blindmist]

man that setup sounds really really familiar lol. i need to get back on the dyno though. im really hoping to see 500awhp without w/m injection on a stock exhaust, or atleast stock open dp. if not ill make my own exhaust and see how close i am.

on a side note i really like having the maft so no matter what (even if i get a emanage or safc or whatever) im going to keep the blow through. everything is so much nicer when you dont have to worry about boost leaks in the ic piping or oil from the K&N filters messing with the stock mafs.

This is my setup, but according to SnakeSkinner it isn't possible. lol. I know I can do it. There isn't the slightest bit of doubt in my mind. I just can't wait to have the numbers and say, I TOLD YA SO. :) It's all friendly of course.

Also, $3600 for the DR750's. That is just too much for me. I am VERY happy with my $1000 13T's.

Use that other $2600 on pistons, rods, and crank, and still have about $1000 left over.

[Lugnut]

Ya know it really is all about your goals for the car but promise once you spend whatever amount to get to your goal .. it will be worth every single penny plus ..

[blindmist]

Did you really just post a pic of MY car with DR750's on it along with a add for 3sx 19T turbos?

All I can say is 1st amendment right. I don't think 3SX is paying him to say anything, and obviously yall didn't pay him to post the picture of your car either. Did you register a copyright on that photo? I doubt it.

[GTwizard]

As far as the pics for the front pipe relocate, never mind. I think I got it.
The last pic is just before weld. The lttle peases are left overs. LOL.
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr343/GTwizard/S6305907.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr343/GTwizard/S6305904.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr343/GTwizard/S6305902.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr343/GTwizard/S6305895.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr343/GTwizard/S6305868.jpg

[stealthee]

All I can say is 1st amendment right. I don't think 3SX is paying him to say anything, and obviously yall didn't pay him to post the picture of your car either. Did you register a copyright on that photo? I doubt it.

You're being an ass. And a photo is copyrighted the minute its taken. So YES it is copyrighted.

[CoopKill]

All I can say is 1st amendment right. I don't think 3SX is paying him to say anything, and obviously yall didn't pay him to post the picture of your car either. Did you register a copyright on that photo? I doubt it.

I believe the point trying to be made was he was using his car to promote a product that was not even on it...

Let's not trash the thread up with inflammatory posts taken out of context... It does not help the OP answer his questions IMO

[IPD]

this thread has so much fail and so little win.

imho, there's really only three options for people who want bolt-on upgrades:

1. dr 750's. you can't make more power with td04's. period.
2. 19t's. the poor man's dr750's. not as capable...still a step up from 15g's.
3. 13t's. for those who insist upon quick spool.

any of these three will get you over 500chp, provided you tune it properly. 500whp isn't "easy" with td04's, but either of the first two has the ability to get you there (#3 might be able to, but it's going to require a lot more tweaking).

and 225whp stock is about right. 500whp is more than double stock levels, bear that in mind.

[MaxClass]

I'm not sure exactly what the difference is between 19T's and DR-750’s since they both seem to max out the TD04 housings but they must have drastically different output flow rates to support the asking price difference. It has to fall with the internals and the fin designs I would suppose.

If anyone has the actual specification differences please post them as I am sure I am not the only one interested in knowing what they are.

But, for the difference in price I choose to go with the Stage 3 heads with oversized valves, BC 272 Cams and the TD04 19T’s for about the same money overall as the DR-750’s (not counting the cams). There should not be anything in the future that the heads won’t be able to handle as it made sense to me to eliminate any weak links up front. It is always easier to add something on top of a good foundation knowing the underside can handle it. Also have forged internals, bored with Wisco 8:1 pistons and fully balanced.The jury is still out since I am in the assembly stage at the moment with my rebuild so it’s a wait and see game at present as to what it may achieve dyno wise.

“BaadVR4”, so your 25 with 40 years of experience, eh. So you got me by a year but I might be the oldest fast “Stealth” [92] owner. Isn’t wisdom great.

“Back-to-Doo”, Build it solid from the bottom up and it will handle whatever you can throw at it later.

[blindmist]

You're being an ass. And a photo is copyrighted the minute its taken. So YES it is copyrighted.

If it isn't registered he can only sue for damages. Not infringement. And secondly, there were 0 damages because the posted didn't get paid any money to post that pic. Once you have put your photo on the internet it is considered published, not registered, you still have to register for the copyright so that you can have full control over the image. I didn't say it wasn't copyrighted, I said it wasn't registered copyright. There is a HUGE difference.

All I was saying is that the guy meant no harm by posting that pic and making a comment about 3sx.

[TurboSinceBirth]

I don't see why a whole bunch of people are getting their panties in a wad about the price of DR-750s. Matt has said multiple times before that these turbos are for people that want a stock replacement, the max hp they can get out of a TD04 turbo, and not a cheap upgrade. If you want something cheaper just get 19Ts and use the extra money towards other supporting mods. If the money is really that big of a deal go buy 3SX's E16G TD05 kit to make similar power to the DR-750s with more spool but more turbo upgrade options.

I think anyone complaining about the price shouldn't be getting DR-750s anyways and should go with a smaller TD04 turbo. The people that want to get the DR-750s want the turbos because they aren't going to run 15 psi with them. That's crazy. They want more power than 19Ts can put out but want to stay with the stock manifolds. I don't blame them. It's much easier to mod and a lot less hassle especially to replace if something goes bad or you need to return the car to stock to sell. They're also wanting the best spool possible. 600+AWHP and spool slightly faster than 16T turbos... who can say no to that? For these reasons people will be looking at the DR-750s. It's obvious that the higher price is going to bring out a bunch of complainers but you get what you pay for and Matt said they cater to a small group of people. If I were to get another 3S to build it would be a stock or build 3.0L with DR-750s because that would be a simple modded setup that could be very reliable done right.

[CoopKill]

I don't see why a whole bunch of people are getting their panties in a wad about the price of DR-750s. Matt has said multiple times before that these turbos are for people that want a stock replacement, the max hp they can get out of a TD04 turbo, and not a cheap upgrade. If you want something cheaper just get 19Ts and use the extra money towards other supporting mods. If the money is really that big of a deal go buy 3SX's E16G TD05 kit to make similar power to the DR-750s with more spool but more turbo upgrade options.

I think anyone complaining about the price shouldn't be getting DR-750s anyways and should go with a smaller TD04 turbo. The people that want to get the DR-750s want the turbos because they aren't going to run 15 psi with them. That's crazy. They want more power than 19Ts can put out but want to stay with the stock manifolds. I don't blame them. It's much easier to mod and a lot less hassle especially to replace if something goes bad or you need to return the car to stock to sell. They're also wanting the best spool possible. 600+AWHP and spool slightly faster than 16T turbos... who can say no to that? For these reasons people will be looking at the DR-750s. It's obvious that the higher price is going to bring out a bunch of complainers but you get what you pay for and Matt said they cater to a small group of people. If I were to get another 3S to build it would be a stock or build 3.0L with DR-750s because that would be a simple modded setup that could be very reliable done right.

Please elaborate on the quoted statement above. Meaning what in your opinion would be the simplest, most reliable setup for the 750s?

[blindmist]

I don't see why a whole bunch of people are getting their panties in a wad about the price of DR-750s. Matt has said multiple times before that these turbos are for people that want a stock replacement, the max hp they can get out of a TD04 turbo, and not a cheap upgrade. If you want something cheaper just get 19Ts and use the extra money towards other supporting mods. If the money is really that big of a deal go buy 3SX's E16G TD05 kit to make similar power to the DR-750s with more spool but more turbo upgrade options.

I think anyone complaining about the price shouldn't be getting DR-750s anyways and should go with a smaller TD04 turbo. The people that want to get the DR-750s want the turbos because they aren't going to run 15 psi with them. That's crazy. They want more power than 19Ts can put out but want to stay with the stock manifolds. I don't blame them. It's much easier to mod and a lot less hassle especially to replace if something goes bad or you need to return the car to stock to sell. They're also wanting the best spool possible. 600+AWHP and spool slightly faster than 16T turbos... who can say no to that? For these reasons people will be looking at the DR-750s. It's obvious that the higher price is going to bring out a bunch of complainers but you get what you pay for and Matt said they cater to a small group of people. If I were to get another 3S to build it would be a stock or build 3.0L with DR-750s because that would be a simple modded setup that could be very reliable done right.

Yes, but to answer the OP question of how to attain 500CHP or even AWHP, DR-750's are way to pricey for that set up. I am not saying the DR-750's are bad, and I may upgrade to them some day. But if you are trying to build an affordable 500AWHP car, there is a much cheaper way to do it that can fit the cost of the 750's alone.

[IPD]

“BaadVR4”, so your 25 with 40 years of experience, eh. So you got me by a year but I might be the oldest fast “Stealth” [92] owner. Isn’t wisdom great.


wait...is that props or a dig? i know milt. he knows these cars. period.

[thor'svr4]

guys the photo/3sx thing is dead. i talked to snake skinner very shortly after he posted.

I was NOT trying to imply 3sx 19T's are better than 750's
I was NOT trying to imply 3sx 19T's are on that white stealth

I WAS trying to imply 19T's would get you 500chp
I WAS trying to imply that snakes skinners car was a sleeper, which is what the op seamed to be after.

its dead

[BaadVR4]

wait...is that props or a dig? i know milt. he knows these cars. period.

Weeeeeellllllllllllllllll...............I really can't figure out where he got the "25" from. I checked my profile in case I made a typo (us senile old farts do that from time to time), but it has my correct birthday (7/25/1945) and age (65), so I don't know where the "25" is coming from. Since he admits to being almost as old as I am, maybe he made a "vision error". But I took the post as a prop. God knows I can use all the help I can get.
Totally off topic, but I started "tinkering" when I was just 14. My dad had bought a 1958 Alfa Romeo Spyder. I "assisted" him in pulling/rebuilding/re-pulling/re-installing the engine. The first rebuild failed while I was driving the car on the Interstate around Washington DC. My first experience with "oil pan failure" as defined by the oil pan failing to contain the debris from the broken rod and other components that failed when the oil pump seized. My primary function during all the "ins and outs" of the Alfa engine was to be responsible for missing tools/broken equipment/failed components. The lessons I learned were invaluable for me once I learned enough to do my own mechanical work. Saved several marriages and a bunch of friendships/business relationships. I was used to everything being my fault, so it didn't bother me to take the blame (whether I deserved it or not). By the time I was 21, the extent of my knowledge was "righty-tighty, lefty-loosy and if it "ain't broke, don't fix it." But by the time I was 23 I had become a passable fair mechanic, so I put my "experience" at "40+. Most of all, I have learned that I learn something everyday. The day I think I know it all is the day I know nothing. Always happy to learn, always happy to help.

[TurboSinceBirth]

Please elaborate on the quoted statement above. Meaning what in your opinion would be the simplest, most reliable setup for the 750s?

To do it I would go with a hotwired walbro 255 lph fuel pump or Denso Supra pump, FMIC or DSM sidemounts, ARC-2 or MAFT, 660cc injectors, intake, MBC or EBC, downpipe, cat-back exhaust, boost gauge, wideband, Spec 4+ clutch, transfercase brace(5-speed) or a bell housing brace(6-speed) if you will be launching the car aggressively at the track, and a datalogger. I think that's about it and what I'd do minimum. You could get away without doing anything to the drivetrain besides a clutch depending on how you were driving the car. Can't forget about an upgraded BOV either. :) A crushed DSM one would work good.


Yes, but to answer the OP question of how to attain 500CHP or even AWHP, DR-750's are way to pricey for that set up. I am not saying the DR-750's are bad, and I may upgrade to them some day. But if you are trying to build an affordable 500AWHP car, there is a much cheaper way to do it that can fit the cost of the 750's alone.

I agree which is why a 3SX TD05 E16G kit, intake, BOV, cat-back exhaust, hotwired walbro, 680cc injectors, MAFT, MBC, boost gauge, FMIC, datalogger, and a Spec 4+ clutch would do the trick for 500AWHP on 91 octane all day long. I'd rather go with a more expensive DR-750 TD04 turbo for a stock replacement than install a TD05 kit on the car. 600+AWHP is nothing to sneeze at for what they're capable of. If I wanted more power than that I would just go the T3 router with a stroker and DR-1200s. Over 800AWHP and AWTQ around 5K rpms and up... yes please. :)

I wanted to upgrade my built 3.1L + GT-3076Rs since the engine had spun bearings and the rear turbo was out when I bought the car. :( Now was going to be the best and only time I probably could have gone with a stroker since it would cost me about $1k more than if I got a new crank and put the 3.1L back together so I did that, got rid of the DR-900s that I originally bought for a 3.0L motor, and modded some 5857s to fit. With the lack of time to work on the car, money, and waiting on parts for the past year where I'm nearly done with it, I'd much rather enjoy the car for awhile and a smaller setup would fit the bill better. I wouldn't have to worry about breaking as many parts and it'd be more reliable for cheaper. I don't think I'll have time to take my car to the track a lot like I originally intended too even if it's only 15 miles away. I couldn't get it fixed in a timely manner because I don't have the time. I can only get a few 2-3 hour blocks of time here and there to work on the car as is. I enjoyed the build and it wasn't as challenging as I had hoped but that's also why I wanted to try out the AEM. Unless I want to make more than 6-650AWHP and my motor goes, I'll probably sell the setup and give the DR-750s a shot.

[CoopKill]

I'm just about there. Turbs, clutch, custom sides, and fuel control are left to do.

What are the positive/negatives of ARC2 over MAFT? Which is more reliable, easier to tune or keep tuned?

[TurboSinceBirth]

I'm just about there. Turbs, clutch, custom sides, and fuel control are left to do.

What are the positive/negatives of ARC2 over MAFT? Which is more reliable, easier to tune or keep tuned?

The positives of the ARC-2 are world record capable :), easy tuning(4 knobs), simple install, bigger MAF, set and forget device if you never make changes until the car is warmed up, and you can get great MPGs on the highway by leaning it out a click or two. The negatives would probably be cost - $1k+ new or $500 used, will probably run a little rough at first startup until the car warms up or at least it may not be at the AFR you want, only supports 720cc injectors, no timing control, and you can't fine tune with it.

I have never used the MAFT but I know it isn't hard to tune with and a bunch of shops love using it. I'll let someone else chime in about it.

[CoopKill]

Thanks for the info!

[MaxClass]

Weeeeeellllllllllllllllll...............I really can't figure out where he got the "25" from. I checked my profile in case I made a typo (us senile old farts do that from time to time), but it has my correct birthday (7/25/1945) and age (65), so I don't know where the "25" is coming from. Since he admits to being almost as old as I am, maybe he made a "vision error". But I took the post as a prop. God knows I can use all the help I can get.

No digs intended here with all due respect and you made no typo's in your profile.

I was born 06-13-46. I am currently 24 with 40 years of experience.

You are currently 25 with 40 years of experience. OK, let's do the math, 25 + 40 = 65.

For some reason it just seems to sounds better when you split it that way. If we drive and love these cars, like I think you do, they make us feel a lot younger than our years. Other point is there is no substitute for our years of experience, if not with these cars with life in general.

It reminds me of the story of baby bull and papa bull on the hill over looking the herd below. Baby bull is prancing all around saying to his dad, "Let's run down and get us one." His dad says, "Son, you have a lot to learn. Why don't we just walk down and get them all."

Point is that life's experiences teach us to be more patient and think things out a little longer, gather all the information we need to make informed decisions, then walk down and get them all, non 3S's that is.

Thanks for listening and I glad to see we never really grow old, just wiser [we hope].

Sincerely,

MaxClass

[BaadVR4]

No digs intended here with all due respect and you made no typo's in your profile.

I was born 06-13-46. I am currently 24 with 40 years of experience.

You are currently 25 with 40 years of experience. OK, let's do the math, 25 + 40 = 65.

For some reason it just seems to sounds better when you split it that way. If we drive and love these cars, like I think you do, they make us feel a lot younger than our years. Other point is there is no substitute for our years of experience, if not with these cars with life in general.

It reminds me of the story of baby bull and papa bull on the hill over looking the herd below. Baby bull is prancing all around saying to his dad, "Let's run down and get us one." His dad says, "Son, you have a lot to learn. Why don't we just walk down and get them all."

Point is that life's experiences teach us to be more patient and think things out a little longer, gather all the information we need to make informed decisions, then walk down and get them all, non 3S's that is.

Thanks for listening and I glad to see we never really grow old, just wiser [we hope].

Sincerely,

MaxClass

Thank you, kind sir; I had not thought of the math quite that way. Kudos to you!!!

[11secondFWD]

Look into dr 750's. Over 600whp on two setups. One was stock heads, cams and block on pump plus meth. Why wouldnt you get them. Forget the extra money, its worth it. Instead of buying heads and cams to get normal td04's there, you could get 750's and be done easier, quicker, and same cash.