FWD TT conversion

[ODP]

First off, I feel like a moron even asking anything since I've only had bad experiences with forums, and elitist within this community, so I usually work in solitary and take the limited information that had surfaced for me.

Anyways,

I am seriously considering a FWD TT conversion. The old owners of my car had ruined the motor, and I knew a replacement was coming soon. I am also very fond of using this car as an outlet for art, (NOT RICE) which is why I want the best, or nothing.

My questions:

1.Aside from typical 60k for crate motor, 3.0 exhaust, gauges, FIMC, and other small necessities be able to practically plug and play?

2.The engine bay of both N/A and TT chassis are the same correct?

3a.What transmission to use? I have read many posts saying I could use mine if I have LSD, and not pounding it extensively.
3b. Also that I could use AWD trans, but at the moment makes no sense because of the 40/60 output?

4. I care none about gas. I understand also that TT motor has more breakable parts, and also more expensive, also slippery. Should I go for FWD TT, or just a tastefully sexy N/A? Either way, I'm spending a lot of money because this is my favorite car.

Also guys and ladies, I'm new on this forum, and have been fooling around with this platform for now about 3 years. I have always neglected to register and ask anything to anyone aside from Facebook groups. I really dont like asking just to be smited as an idiot.

As pre-mentioned I know what I'm getting myself into to a few degrees. Please help. Thank you.

-Orso

[bighoppins]

Engine bays are the same as far as I know.

You also have to think of oil drain /feed, collant lines, plenum piping, water neck, depending on the year ox sensors,ecu and wiring harness etc. Also manifolds, down pipe and exhaust. Non turbo is smaller.

You also can't run a lot of boost because of the 10:1 unless you have a way to control timing and all of that.

You can use a awd trans and have the vcu welded but it's expensive.

Also there isn't much point to building an na motor. There is a guy that dumped a lot of money into his and had it stripped and it still wasn't more than 275/300 if I remember right. He had a lot done to it.

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[ODP]

Wouldn't most of that come with the vr4 motor that I'd buy? I wasn't saying an N/A convert, I shouldve said swap, aha. And yeah I've done quite a bit of research and know about the other things needed, downpipe, etcetera. I figure fwd is equally attachable? I don't want to build an n/a but certainly will throw a bit down on the items on the bible guide

[bighoppins]

It honestly all depends. I never got lines and such with the motors I bought. It depends on where you get it and all that. What do you mean by equally attachable? The bell housings are the same, if that's what you mean.

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[Uniuno]

The engine bays aren't the same. The NAs don't have the hole behind the driver's side headlight for the IC piping to go through. It's easy enough to make a hole there though.

I ran FWDTT for a while on the FWD trans, I was pretty gentle with it out of fear of breaking it. I eventually went to a AWD trans converted to FWD by welding the VCU's planet gears together. You don't have to weld anything other than just them. Just make sure you have the Sun gear in place when you weld them.

In the end I converted it to full AWD. I learned a lot, had a lot of fun, but buying a VR4 is so much easier.

If this is your only car, do a lot of research and collect parts before doing the swap. I collected parts and researched it for about 6 months before turning a wrench.

Good luck, and please make a thread about your conversion. Forums are good for getting input.

[B-Man]

As someone who's done the conversion, just get a TT. They're already getting dirt cheap.

That being said, there's a TON of info here:
http://www.bobthegreat.com/pages/mycar/mods/turbo/

[RealMcCoy]

Sometimes good advice can be mistaken for elitism if not presented gently, or taken wrong. Often the recipient doesn't want to hear something contrary to the idea they have in their head...

A "crate motor" isn't going to come with anything you need for a turbo conversion... You will need to buy a conversion from someone parting out a turbo car, or buy a turbo parts car yourself.

*personal opinion alert* Just buy a turbo car to build.... You are taking on a huge project that is going to net you a 300+ horsepower wrong wheel drive car. The only fix for that is to do an AWD conversion, which is an even bigger project.

[bighoppins]

And To Do an awd conversion, you have To ruin a turbo car. That's the shitty part.

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[ODP]

Sorry guys for taking FOREVER to reply.


The engine bays aren't the same. The NAs don't have the hole behind the driver's side headlight for the IC piping to go through. It's easy enough to make a hole there though.

I ran FWDTT for a while on the FWD trans, I was pretty gentle with it out of fear of breaking it. I eventually went to a AWD trans converted to FWD by welding the VCU's planet gears together. You don't have to weld anything other than just them. Just make sure you have the Sun gear in place when you weld them.

In the end I converted it to full AWD. I learned a lot, had a lot of fun, but buying a VR4 is so much easier.

If this is your only car, do a lot of research and collect parts before doing the swap. I collected parts and researched it for about 6 months before turning a wrench.

Good luck, and please make a thread about your conversion. Forums are good for getting input.

Thank you sir. It's info like this that isn't commonly disposed. I certainly will not be able to go that far, if anything would buy a shell. Although I do not really have time for that :/. I know people aren't too fond of N/A's but in its place I intend to build a tasteful clean one. I drive every day and would prefer it to be compatible for daily use. in the moment it is my only car, recently sold my 530i, because I live a 30 min walk from work (10 min drive). I was also planning on possibly going AWD, but if I need to cut the engine bay I might as well go safe with an N/A and follow the N/A bible.



As someone who's done the conversion, just get a TT. They're already getting dirt cheap.

That being said, there's a TON of info here:
http://www.bobthegreat.com/pages/mycar/mods/turbo/



Sometimes good advice can be mistaken for elitism if not presented gently, or taken wrong. Often the recipient doesn't want to hear something contrary to the idea they have in their head...

A "crate motor" isn't going to come with anything you need for a turbo conversion... You will need to buy a conversion from someone parting out a turbo car, or buy a turbo parts car yourself.

*personal opinion alert* Just buy a turbo car to build.... You are taking on a huge project that is going to net you a 300+ horsepower wrong wheel drive car. The only fix for that is to do an AWD conversion, which is an even bigger project.

Yeah, I'd agree, but for my daily driver purposes I should just stay N/A and have it be very clean. I've seen so very much hate for N/As in general, mainly with people who do distasteful modifications to them, but I plan on creating a restored, refined, and hopefully to the community, one of a kind wide DD N/A. I figure there are so many great ideas implemented on other platforms on slow(er) than a SL that I'd try to make something nice, and still be able to keep up. Certainly none of that overuse of lights superstance, rice nonsense, though I'm sure that's what first comes to mind.. :/.


And To Do an awd conversion, you have To ruin a turbo car. That's the shitty part.

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I'm definitively realizing that now more than ever, the only major modifications I've known beforehand was the rear drive-train, I've read somewhere which I know now is false information that the mere differences were only the rear & the driveshaft. Now the engine bay.


Thanks guys. Much appreciated for the information provided, I will head onto plan B. Hopefully you'll take some interest in its development in the coming few months!

[BaadVR4]

The are more difference(s) in TT vs NA cars. The most critical (imho) is that the rear suspension from an AWD WILL NOT BOLT INTO A FWD CHASSIS. PERIOD. Converting a FWD to AWD is a difficult, complicated and daunting job, not really appropriate for anyone but a pro. A professional AWD conversion (even at the "good friend" discount rate) is almost sure to be more than the cost of a complete TT car in pretty fair condition, which is why so many forum members get so adamant that you should just buy a TT to start with.


Sorry guys for taking FOREVER to reply.



Thank you sir. It's info like this that isn't commonly disposed. I certainly will not be able to go that far, if anything would buy a shell. Although I do not really have time for that :/. I know people aren't too fond of N/A's but in its place I intend to build a tasteful clean one. I drive every day and would prefer it to be compatible for daily use. in the moment it is my only car, recently sold my 530i, because I live a 30 min walk from work (10 min drive). I was also planning on possibly going AWD, but if I need to cut the engine bay I might as well go safe with an N/A and follow the N/A bible.







Yeah, I'd agree, but for my daily driver purposes I should just stay N/A and have it be very clean. I've seen so very much hate for N/As in general, mainly with people who do distasteful modifications to them, but I plan on creating a restored, refined, and hopefully to the community, one of a kind wide DD N/A. I figure there are so many great ideas implemented on other platforms on slow(er) than a SL that I'd try to make something nice, and still be able to keep up. Certainly none of that overuse of lights superstance, rice nonsense, though I'm sure that's what first comes to mind.. :/.



I'm definitively realizing that now more than ever, the only major modifications I've known beforehand was the rear drive-train, I've read somewhere which I know now is false information that the mere differences were only the rear & the driveshaft. Now the engine bay.


Thanks guys. Much appreciated for the information provided, I will head onto plan B. Hopefully you'll take some interest in its development in the coming few months!

[ODP]

The are more difference(s) in TT vs NA cars. The most critical (imho) is that the rear suspension from an AWD WILL NOT BOLT INTO A FWD CHASSIS. PERIOD. Converting a FWD to AWD is a difficult, complicated and daunting job, not really appropriate for anyone but a pro. A professional AWD conversion (even at the "good friend" discount rate) is almost sure to be more than the cost of a complete TT car in pretty fair condition, which is why so many forum members get so adamant that you should just buy a TT to start with.

Yes. I've been doing research since before I've owned my first R/T, however I've found a decent amount of info, but haven't found much more than what had been mentioned in this post, I know very well about the rear suspension, which is why I wanted to keep it FWD for at least some time, but I'm learning now after a couple years of spotty information that thats not the only case. I tried to look up a lot of TT conversions, and what had learned is that some things haven't been mentioned on several, or most guides I've found, or even popular guides, and I'm glad I asked before jumping into it.

[Turbo Beast]

Good for you, i wouldn't mess with converting FWD to AWD either LOL

[stealthee]

I'll be honest, after going to the Buschur/DSM shootout a few weeks back I started considering just TT swapping my Stealth since the bay is completely stripped right now anyway. Then I thought, do I really want a 300+ hp FWD? I mean, yeah my Grand Prix is 260 (bhp) but its a fucking pig (weighs as much as an AWD 3s but is still FWD) and the gearing sucks for grunt and go. Also, I blew FIVE transmissions on SOHC power, WTF will I do with almost double that? :lol:

But, yeah, 300+ bhp in a FWD just doesn't make any sense to me. Hell my cousin was making 250 hp (in a very light 91 Civic hatch) and had zero traction. I'll just buy a AWD TT when I want to go that route. I'll just finish the Stealth as planned and keep it reliable as I can.

[IPD]

As long as this is your DD, abandon any and all thoughts of modding it. Keep it 100% stock and don't touch a damn thing--or you'll rue the day you ever dreamed of it.

You are 99,000 times better off just buying something to tinker on. Hell, there's plenty of cars for sale (mine included)--and at a steep discount over what you'd pay if you were blazing your own trail & buying everything new. 3/s is NOT a platform to DD and tinker on. Trust me. Everything you could possibly have ever dreamed of--I've probably already had done to my car. FWD N/A > AWD TT.

Look, there's absolutely nothing wrong with N/A's. The trash-talk comes from people with ego complexes stroking their e-peen. Turbos somehow are "better" in their eyes--even though a stock tt 3/s isn't nearly as fast or impressive 20 years hence (stock Accords are nearly as fast now). Same reason why people poo-poo the automatics; somehow, because the TT's only came with stick-shift, automatics somehow suck (in the minds of these troglodytes). Nevermind that it's the same damn automatics that the DSM's are running 8 second 1/4 mile runs with.

Look, do what you want. I've owned my car since 2003, and all I can share is my experience. If you keep an N/A 100% stock mechanically--don't abuse it--and do all the PM that it SHOULD be getting...it will take care of you indefinitely. That's what I know.

[BaadVR4]

As long as this is your DD, abandon any and all thoughts of modding it. Keep it 100% stock and don't touch a damn thing--or you'll rue the day you ever dreamed of it.

You are 99,000 times better off just buying something to tinker on. Hell, there's plenty of cars for sale (mine included)--and at a steep discount over what you'd pay if you were blazing your own trail & buying everything new. 3/s is NOT a platform to DD and tinker on. Trust me. Everything you could possibly have ever dreamed of--I've probably already had done to my car. FWD N/A > AWD TT.

Look, there's absolutely nothing wrong with N/A's. The trash-talk comes from people with ego complexes stroking their e-peen. Turbos somehow are "better" in their eyes--even though a stock tt 3/s isn't nearly as fast or impressive 20 years hence (stock Accords are nearly as fast now). Same reason why people poo-poo the automatics; somehow, because the TT's only came with stick-shift, automatics somehow suck (in the minds of these troglodytes). Nevermind that it's the same damn automatics that the DSM's are running 8 second 1/4 mile runs with.

Look, do what you want. I've owned my car since 2003, and all I can share is my experience. If you keep an N/A 100% stock mechanically--don't abuse it--and do all the PM that it SHOULD be getting...it will take care of you indefinitely. That's what I know.

ABSOLUTE TRUTH TIMES A MILLION. The route from N/A FWD to TT AWD is a really good way to turn a large fortune into a small one.

[bighoppins]

I agree with everything said. Nothing is as reliable as a n/a and they are still sexy! But I do think your wrong about dd a vr4. Once I got all the bugs out she's reliable. I just drove her all the way from Arizona to Michigan with zero issues. Minus a original thermostat that failed, but it only took a half hour to fix, and the people at the cornfield in Indiana had the parts. They good good gas milage for a fast car, 19ts are cheap, they ride better than anything in their price range, and with stock exhaust she's more quite than a n/a sr20 in a infiniti g20. They are also fast, sexy, and unique.

I also long to do a awd atx. I enjoy the manual, but the power the trans can hold, and their cheapness/availability vs a 5 speed 25 spline give it a big boost. Only problem though is that you need a 6 speed rear end, which is expensive. My drag car I'll build in a year or two will be awd atx.

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[IPD]

A 100% STOCK vr4--well maintained--can certainly be used for a DD without issue. That's not what we're talking about. What the OP is trying to do is use an n/a as his DD...WHILE TURNING WRENCHES ON IT. That's a massive amount of bad ju-ju. 19t's vary WIDELY in the quality department, unlike something like MHI 16g's (OEM) or DR750's (milled to exact specifics every time).

p.s.
"getting the bugs out" also varies widely from person to person, car to car. Also...not words you want to entertain when you're talking about a DD. I used my "stock vr4" power car as a DD for quite some time. Sure it was reliable--but again "after i got the bugs out"...and only so long as i didn't turn wrenches on it.

p.s.
ATX's don't need much to handle boosted power. MTX (FWD) can't be saved; they're a ticking timebomb in a force-induction car. Anyone and everyone will tell you to do the AWD trans swap in an MTX--for this reason.

[bighoppins]

I agree on the n/a swap. I have a modified 19t car and daily her and no problems, once she's got the bugs done. If you build it right it won't be unreliable.

Only thing that sucks is the 6 puck clutch.

They do vary a lot in quality. The mhi 16gs are insanely priced. As well as Dr turbos. They are nice but outrageous. I'm running kinugawa turbos and never had an issue. I don't understand why everyone wants to spend 5 grand on turbos. I paid $750 and 5hey have been good for 2k hard miles and 3k highway without an issue. It shouldn't take 20-30k to have a fast modified car.

I agree, until you get it done, it shouldn't be dd.

And Yea the fwd mtx are horrible.

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[IPD]

Good for you. Many people HAVE had issues with 19t's. And yes, MHI 16g's became more expensive recently--but they previously were a $500 turbo. I'm a firm believer in going with a 100% OEM turbo; replacing it doesn't mean paying someone's shop for a new turbo/machining. Newer turbos are on the market now than the 16g, but very few--if any--have experimented with using these in a 3/s build (it's a 20 year old car, after all). OEM is plug & play--not "oh crap, that shop went out of business/stopped selling those turbos, now where do i buy?"

[bighoppins]

I had to have the kinugawas rebuilt, the guy who i bought them from got them from another guy with 20 miles on them amd they were hitting the housing wall. He paid to ship them back and got them rebuilt ubder warranty. They didnt have to much issue with the warranty. They stood by it. I just couldn't beat brand new 19ts for $700. That's what it cost to rebuild the 9bs almost.

oem turbos are known to last at minimum 100k mile turbo. But then with 15gs you need two plus manifolds. Which usually ends up being around 3k. Then you lose your spool. Mine spools around 23-2400 rpm. But you have a easy 700 hp without having to run a lot of timing.

I definitely agree it's easier, but you pay for the convenience.

It's sad though that even after all these years, besides 19ts there isn't a much better bolt on besides Dr 3k 750.

I almost said screw it and went single. 500-1k for a Jornal bearing turbo thay will handle 1k hp and be done.

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