2-step with EMU

[blindmist]

So I hooked my EMU up and started playing around.

Just for fun.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZE2YTF-Pvo

[terrets]

Very nice, was EMU your first fuel management?

[blindmist]

Very nice, was EMU your first fuel management?

Yup. This thing is tricky though. I think I am finally getting the hang of it.

[terrets]

I think I might have to keep mine :lol: instead of having someone tuner aem ems for me :D

[blindmist]

Yes, but here is the catch with this 2 step, you can only go to 99% throttle all the way to red line otherwise the 2-step kicks in at the specified RPM when it sees 100% throttle. Doesn't matter if you are in the middle of a pull.

[KeithMac]

It`s not really a catch though, as soon as you`re moving and past your set VSS pulse count it`s disabled anyway.

I have mine set at 50% throttle so I don`t accidently miss it when staging.

[terrets]

Yes, but here is the catch with this 2 step, you can only go to 99% throttle all the way to red line otherwise the 2-step kicks in at the specified RPM when it sees 100% throttle. Doesn't matter if you are in the middle of a pull.

I thought two step was enabled by zero speed???? And I agree with KeithMac, thats how I was going to have it.

[blindmist]

It`s not really a catch though, as soon as you`re moving and past your set VSS pulse count it`s disabled anyway.

I have mine set at 50% throttle so I don`t accidently miss it when staging.

I must be missing a setting somewhere. If I have 100% throttle, I hit 2-step regardless of my VSS. Time to start digging some more.

Edit: Number of VS pulse? Is this it? Mine is set to 0, should it be set to 1 or something else?

[Amphiron]

I think I might have to keep mine :lol: instead of having someone tuner aem ems for me :D

But I want it, even if my car is a N/A. Plus it's gonna be good practice for when I have enough for my turbo build.

[Unknownvr4]

I must be missing a setting somewhere. If I have 100% throttle, I hit 2-step regardless of my VSS. Time to start digging some more.

Edit: Number of VS pulse? Is this it? Mine is set to 0, should it be set to 1 or something else?

Thats correct but dont mess with it. It doesnt do anything. Trust me ive tried making it work correctly for like a week. The trick is to use Option port 2 and wire it to your clutch safety switch so it only engages while the clutch is pushed in.

[blindmist]

I cannot even get it to see the Vehicle Speed Sensor. It just shows 0 even when I am moving.

[terrets]

Oh thats odd....I wonder if you have to wire something a little differently? Or maybe you do need to use one of the option ports or switch port...Im not sure ha.

[blindmist]

Figured it out. My Boomslang Stage 2.5 doesn't have the 3rd connector. The one used for Injector Subtract in Stage 3. BUT on that 3rd connector, there is the IAT, Water Temp, Crank Angle, Cam Angle, and Vehicle Speed.

Here is the point I am at. The 91-93 don't have crank angle sensors correct? Yet, the pinout states that on a 91-93 DOHC, Crank angle is pin 69 and the TDC is pin 68. So my question is, do I hook the EMU crank angle to pin 69 and the Cam angle to the "TDC Sensor" pin 68?

http://www.stealth316.com/images/ecu-conn_91-93.gif
http://www.stealth316.com/images/ecu_91-93_2.gif

[terrets]

They do have crank angle sensors....Just in a different position, on the intake side of the motor. :D

If the EMU cam angle sensor only needs to know where TDC is and the volts are the same, I dont see why not.

Check this out: http://www.3si.org/forum/f103/ultimate-emanage-thread-297552-post4479821/?highlight=step#post4479821

Just for reference :)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-9/1210778/Stage3.gif

[blindmist]

I figured it out. The Crank angle and Cam angle are in one sensor. I just thought it was Cam only. I wired the Crank to the Crank and the TDC to the Cam. Works perfect, also got my vehicle speed, intake temp, and water temp wired in now too. I sure am glad I didn't get rid of the universal harness. I was even able to run the wires down the boomslang loom, it all looks almost like the boomslang except for the electrical tape.

Also, you have to understand, the crank angle sensor goes 2x as fast as the cam. Or the cam goes 1/2 the speed of the crank. Wiring them together wouldn't work.

See pin 40 and 41 there on the right (EMU side). That is your vehicle speed. See how someone can miss wiring that in? Even that diagram doesn't have it wired in.

I think I am going to revise these diagrams as they don't have the IAT, Water temp, Speed sensor, Crank, or Cam sensors drawn in there.

As you can see, this doesn't have anything on the ECU pins 68, 69, 66, 63, 52

[DocWalt]

Oh, and you're not building boost at idle, ya goofball :p Building boost free-revving, haha

[colt45 gto]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5LENwgWjB0

[terrets]

Glad you got it nearly figured out :)

[blindmist]

Oh, and you're not building boost at idle, ya goofball :p Building boost free-revving, haha

OH STFU!!. The VEHICLE was IDLE!!! :lol: I had been up almost 70 something hours at that point of the video.

[B-Man]

Does your RPM drop to 0 when your two step activates?

[terrets]

Thats not good B-Man :)

[R/T93]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5LENwgWjB0

Lol, those pesky EMU's!!

[blindmist]

Does your RPM drop to 0 when your two step activates?

My tach fly's all over the place when I am two-steppin. I went ahead and put my 550's in because I am monitoring knock. I did math for the -34% correction and what not. When I go to add throttle from 0%, the car falls on its face for a second and then picks up just fine. I have no wideband so I don't know if it is going rich or lean at this point. But, I did get it running with 0 knock at 15psi with the 550's, .95v on the front and rear o2, 54% IDC, and it pulls HARD. Feels like my 9b's at 20psi with my 360's :lol: That motor is gone btw. :)

[terrets]

I would guess lean :). I really wish I could easily afford my T70 and all:(.

[KeithMac]

My tach fly's all over the place when I am two-steppin. I went ahead and put my 550's in because I am monitoring knock. I did math for the -34% correction and what not. When I go to add throttle from 0%, the car falls on its face for a second and then picks up just fine. I have no wideband so I don't know if it is going rich or lean at this point. But, I did get it running with 0 knock at 15psi with the 550's, .95v on the front and rear o2, 54% IDC, and it pulls HARD. Feels like my 9b's at 20psi with my 360's :lol: That motor is gone btw. :)

It won`t be -34% everywhere, if you haven`t factored in the Deadtime/Latency difference in the injectors you will have to tune it out in the maps.

A good tip is to have one IJ map based on pressure and the second IJ map based on TPS..

[blindmist]

It won`t be -34% everywhere, if you haven`t factored in the Deadtime/Latency difference in the injectors you will have to tune it out in the maps.

A good tip is to have one IJ map based on pressure and the second IJ map based on TPS..

Can you come to Texas and sit in the car with me for a day? :lol:

Is there any good tutorial that explains exactly what everything does when you are tuning? I don't know really anything here and am kinda blind.

I have RC550's where do I find the deadtime and where do I compensate for it in EMU?

[terrets]

Is that why your names blindmist? :lol:

Are you on the Emanage thread on 3si...try searching that :D. Its awesome....I believe the injector latency is found in your car settings where you set up the TPS and all that jive.

[blindmist]

Is that why your names blindmist? :lol:

Are you on the Emanage thread on 3si...try searching that :D. Its awesome....I believe the injector latency is found in your car settings where you set up the TPS and all that jive.

dont even get me started about 3si.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I'd start at -30%. My maps usually end up with less correction at the bottom end and more at the top.

They had widebands on sale for $150 shipped overnight, get one. The narrowband is almost useless.

[blindmist]

I'd start at -30%. My maps usually end up with less correction at the bottom end and more at the top.

They had widebands on sale for $150 shipped overnight, get one. The narrowband is almost useless.

Who has them for sale?I am at -22 correction at idle and -32 under boost and I am now rich as hell again. You are right, narrowband is worthless, but at least with .99v I know I am not melting shit.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

you can blow your engine being super rich too.

Here is the sale:

http://www.pricematchedparts.com/products/AEM_Wideband_Analog_Gauge_Analog_Wideband_Air_Fuel _Gauge-3855-593.html

[KeithMac]

You have to have the injectors wired up to the EMU to do the deadtime correction. Stock injectors are 0.7ms I believe.

The RC550`s probably do have larger deadtime and this will cause problems with lean throttle tip-in.

[blindmist]

You have to have the injectors wired up to the EMU to do the deadtime correction. Stock injectors are 0.7ms I believe.

The RC550`s probably do have larger deadtime and this will cause problems with lean throttle tip-in.

I made it more rich at idle last night and that fixed my issues. What is a normal correction for 13t's @15psi? I am at -32 and still rich but I am afraid to go much more than that without a wideband.

Also, I like http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/db.php and you can get them for $6 more on ebay.

Speaking of which, does anyone have a wideband I can take on credit? lol

[terrets]

dont even get me started about 3si.

Come on man, its got a lot of good info :D....Ive got a lc1 innovative wideband but I need it :D I like it a lot though.

[blindmist]

Yup. I am pretty much completely stuck until I get a wideband. It is impossible to tune off of narrowband. I can't get it to cycle at idle any more for some reason. I am kinda just getting frustrated and I know 100% of it could be solved with a wideband. I just don't have the money for it right now. I have bills to pay to keep my head above the water.

I guess I could go ahead and drain the coolant system and put antifreeze in this time instead of running on pure distilled. It has been getting to the 40's the past couple nights and I don't want to be caught off gaurd.

Edit: I just went and did about 15 pulls since it was late. I finally got it to .95v on both front and rear o2 and 0 knock. So I feel a little bit better. I think it is just a tad rich, which is where I want to be until I get a wideband.


Just a quick question, if I do encounter knock at .95v, which I believe to be just a little rich, do I pull some timing?

[KeithMac]

If it`s only slight knock a couple of degrees pulled should cure it.

Don`t go mad with the boost and pull a lot of timing as your car will probably end up slower than with lower boost and more timing..

[blindmist]

If it`s only slight knock a couple of degrees pulled should cure it.

Don`t go mad with the boost and pull a lot of timing as your car will probably end up slower than with lower boost and more timing..

Im not going mad with the boost honestly. I am roughly at 14.5-15 according to my Greddy MAP sensor. The reason I am asking is because I did have 2 runs last night with -38 correction where it got 16 counts of knock, as to which I instantly let off. I changed it back to -36 and it solved the issue, but I am noticing now that I look at the logs more that I am running .98-.97v with -36, and .94-.95v at -38, but I get knock.

So I am assuming I am running very close to stoich, a little on the rich, and I still knock, maybe I need to pull 2-3 degrees of timing? And I have yet to touch the timing BTW, and by default, Greddy has -2 and -3 spread throughout the ignition map.

[KeithMac]

The 02`s voltage change with heat so you can`t really rely upon them for any real values to be honest.

If you do back to back pulls you will heatsoak the intercoolers and the 2nd/ 3rd pull will be more knock prone on the same tune, adding fuel basically cools the comustion chambers down negating the loss of IC efficiency.

You are no where near stoich (14.7:1 afr) oat 0.95v and you don`t want to be at high load, aim for 11.0:1 to be safe or where you have no knock if you haven`t bought a wideband yet (really should view a wideband as engine insurance!).

[blindmist]

The 02`s voltage change with heat so you can`t really rely upon them for any real values to be honest.

If you do back to back pulls you will heatsoak the intercoolers and the 2nd/ 3rd pull will be more knock prone on the same tune, adding fuel basically cools the comustion chambers down negating the loss of IC efficiency.

You are no where near stoich (14.7:1 afr) oat 0.95v and you don`t want to be at high load, aim for 11.0:1 to be safe or where you have no knock if you haven`t bought a wideband yet (really should view a wideband as engine insurance!).

I know I know. I keep kicking myself in the head that I didn't get one when I had the money. Trust me. I am just trying to get it a little bit better than flooding my engine like crazy all the time.

Also, when I was doing those runs, I would do the pulls, and then coast to a stop to get air across the oil cooler and the intercoolers to cool them back down. Also, there was probably 5-10m dead time between each run because I was looking at all the logs. So I am pretty sure I didn't have a heat soak issue with the intercoolers.

[Gray Haze]

......what part of texas are you from? lol

[blindmist]

......what part of texas are you from? lol

Lubbock. I was actually going to get in contact with you when I bring my car to the DFW area for a dyno tune, hoping you could help out.