Clutch fork loose???

[Mike-92RT]

Ok so years ago I rebuilt my cylinder heads, removing my engine from the car. I also replaced the clutch while I was at it. I bought an OEM exedy clutch, same one that was in my car already. When I put everything back in, everything was fine until my master cylinder leaked into my car. I put a new one in, and now my pedal sticks to the floor. Long story short I took it off the road.

Now, I have dropped a newer JDM engine in, same clutch, and I have bled the master cylinder. There's no air in my clutch system. But after 2 hours of bleeding, I came to realize my clutch fork had a lot of play in it. Never looked at it when I swapped engines. Could something have popped loose? My clutch kit came with a new bearing, so I know thats good. I took a video of me moving it. I'm gonna try and upload it.

Need help ASAP! Trying to get this car on the road this week!

[futurevr4man]

I have heard of clutch forks actually being bent. Might want to consider that.

[Mike-92RT]

Okay so I pulled my transmission again, and found out it actually broke. I am low on funds atm to buy a new one, so I got it professionally welded for 30 bucks. I got excited, put it back in, thinking that it'll solve my problem, annddd nope. Clutch pedal still sticks to the floor. The fork still barely moves back and forth when pressing the pedal. Any other ideas? Could the release bearing clip be a factor? A worn down fork?

Help lol

[stealthee]

It may broke again, which is possibly since the fork is cast and hard to weld.

You also probably need to bleed to clutch and/or adjust the pedal throw.

[R/T93]

Yes adjusting the pedal throw with the rod underneath the dash going to the master solved my funny acting clutch issues.

[futurevr4man]

I am sure someone could help you out with a spare clutch fork. They are a dime a dozen.

[Mike-92RT]

The guy who welded my fork knew that he was working with cast, I took it to the best experienced welding shop in my city. The fork is back in working order. I will order a new one when I order a stage 1 or 2 clutch. Which I'll be purchasing a new flywheel as well.

My problem is that when I press the pedal down, it sticks to the floor, and when I got my buddy to do it I saw the slave and fork already look like they're extended, and when you push the pedal down, the slave and fork barely move. I took a video, I just wish I can share it with you guys.

I'm gonna throw some ideas out there. Could it be the bearing clip? Release bearing even tho it's new? Could it be that I didn't bench bleed my master cylinder?

[stealthee]

Like I said it's related to either air in the system needing bled, or the adjustment of the rod being out of spec.

I didn't bench bleed my master when I put it in and didn't have an issue. The fact that you put a new master in tells me you need to check the pedal free play first.

Another problem with the FWD is the clutch damper which is bolted to the top of the trans and is before the slave cylinder. That damper has caused so many nightmares to so many people over the years because it makes the system much more difficult to get all the air out. I deleted mine years ago and couldn't be happier.

If I were in your situation I would first delete the damper, then gravity bleed the slave, then verify clutch pedal free play and adjust as necessary. If you still have a problem then you probably have something broken on the clutch or pressure plate itself. The fact that you just had the trans out should probably rule that out if you checked it at that point though.

[Mike-92RT]

I've had the transmission off 3 times so far after the swap lol. It all looks fine to me. Is there a thread on how to adjust the pedal?

[stealthee]

http://www.3sgto.org/3000gt-stealth-gto-related-topics/1083-clutch-adjustment-%3D-no-need-trans-rebuild.html#post17928

There is also a video in that thread from Jack's Transmission. I have tried the Jack's method and do not like it. Measuring the pedal fee play is the easier method IMO.

I just ran out and grabbed my owners manual and scanned this in for you to show you how to check for free play and the specs as well.

http://www.3sgto.org/members/stealthee-albums-pics-picture8258-picture.jpg

[futurevr4man]

Take the bleeder screw out of the slave cylinder altogether. Get the pedal back where it needs to be. If no fluid comes out of where the bleeder screw was, fill the reservoir until fluid comes out. Put screw back in, and bleed like normal.

It doesn't make a lot of sense that your pedal is stuck down though. Something would have to be pretty wrong internally for it to be hanging up. The clutch pedal has a spring on it... is that spring gone? Lots of strange questions I could ask like that. Something obvious is wrong, you're just overlooking it.

[Mike-92RT]

Fluid comes out of the bleeder screw. The pedal springs up when I flick it back. I'm sure the spring is there but I will check. Is there supposed to be any resistance on the clutch fork?

[stealthee]

Yes. It's damn near impossible to compress the pressure plate fingers by hand.

[Mike-92RT]

Well I can move my fork back and forth. Maybe something is hooked up wrong :S

I'm uploading a video now.

[Mike-92RT]

https://youtu.be/N94BmpXiG1U

[KeithMac]

First off I would NEVER weld the fork, the end is under a massive load when depressing the clutch.

In your video did the clutch pedal feel light?, if it did either the pressure plate/ throw out bearing or fork/ pivot are faulty..

[Mike-92RT]

Yes it felt like with a tiny little bit of pressure near the floor. I have a feeling I may have installed the throw out bearing the wrong way. I decided to skim through the many pages of the service manual and found an illustration of the clutch assembly. Lol.. I will look into it this weekend at some point. I'm pretty sure I installed it backwards gaaaahhhhhh

[stealthee]

You mean you put the TOB on the wrong side of the fork?

[Mike-92RT]

No I mean the TOB is facing the wrong way. It shows in the manual that the side that sticks out faces towards the clutch.

http://3swarehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/throw-out-bearing-TT.jpg

[KeithMac]

Make sure you have a good look at the pressure plate to check you haven't damaged it with the clutch fork.

At least it wasn't running when you tried the clutch!.

[stealthee]

It might not hurt to unbolt the pressure plate as well and check the clutch disk and springs.

[Mike-92RT]

It's got a few scratches on the outer surface from the broken piece. But it looks fine. I'm not starting the car until I find out my problem and it's fixed.

[KeithMac]

Buy a new fprk as well, not worth getting stranded if it fails while you're in the middle of nowhere...

[Mike-92RT]

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss258/Mike92RT/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0635.jpg

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss258/Mike92RT/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0634.jpg (http://s581.photobucket.com/user/Mike92RT/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0634.jpg.html)
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss258/Mike92RT/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0633.jpg (http://s581.photobucket.com/user/Mike92RT/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0633.jpg.html)
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss258/Mike92RT/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0632.jpg (http://s581.photobucket.com/user/Mike92RT/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0632.jpg.html)
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss258/Mike92RT/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0636.jpg (http://s581.photobucket.com/user/Mike92RT/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0636.jpg.html)
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss258/Mike92RT/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0635.jpg (http://s581.photobucket.com/user/Mike92RT/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0635.jpg.html)

[Mike-92RT]

Ok so I put everything back together carefully. Clutch fork has a little play when the fork is closest to the engine which I guess is normal, and its hard to move it the other direction a little past half way of the inspection hole. Pedal still sticks to the floor. I'm gonna try and bleed the system again and if that doesn't work maybe a new slave cylinder?

[R/T93]

Your master leaks internally.

[Mike-92RT]

My master is brand new

[stealthee]

Probably a good idea to delete that damper that I talked about, then bleed, bleed, and bleed some more. After that adjust the pedal free play

[Mike-92RT]

Can you take a picture of your damper delete setup?

[stealthee]

My engine bay is empty right now. LOL

Look at the firewall where the hardline runs from the clutch master. There is a bracket on the firewall where another line hooks to it.

My memory is fuzzy at this point, because it has been so long since I deleted my damper, but I believe at that bracket is a soft line with female threads on both sides, then it goes back to a hardline that hooks to the damper. Then it goes from the damper to the slave.

What I did is use the double female hose, then made my own short hard line to get to the slave straight off the firewall. What I have learned in the teardown of my car is you could possibly use a stock brake soft line. That would eliminate the need of an additional connection.

So basically, stock hardline to the connector bracket on the firewall, a stock front brake hose hook to that and hook straight to the slave.

Elimination of the damper makes bleeding SO MUCH EASIER. It also greatly improves pedal feel.

Oh, I almost forgot, there is one more option. These guys haven't posted here in awhile, but they had a good reputation while they were around.

STM: STM STAINLESS CLUTCHLINE | MASTER TO SLAVE CYLINDER | 3000GT & STEALTH | STM-3S-MASTER (http://www.streettunedmotorsports.com/parts/stm_3s_master_to_slave_clutchline.htm)

Its listed for a TT, but I am fairly sure it will also work for a FWD as well.

[Mike-92RT]

Thanks stealthee!

I'm going to bleed it tomorrow some more and see what happens. I'll be posting two videos tonight of when I reinstalled the fork, and me pressing the clutch pedal, showing what my slave is doing.

[Mike-92RT]

https://youtu.be/AWhLM8J-JxQ

And again

https://youtu.be/N94BmpXiG1U

[R/T93]

That is not enough stroke from the slave. It should move about double what yours currently is.
Let me dig some vids up for you.

[R/T93]

https://youtu.be/omr58IqNhJ0

[Mike-92RT]

So judging from the one video, my fork shouldn't have that much play? What could cause that?

[Mike-92RT]

I've never had to deal with this before so therefore I know nothing lol

[Mike-92RT]

Okay weird thing.. after I took off my transmission the last time to inspect my fork. I put it back on and recorded the movement of the fork which I posted the link a couple replies back.

I randomly decided to check it tonight, and tried to look in the inspection hole, when I noticed the fork stops at about half of the inspection hole, So less free play than what the video shows. Wtf? Lol

So I'm going to try and bleed my clutch system again and see what happens. I'll post an update tomorrow.

[Mike-92RT]

Okay so I bled my clutch, there is no air in the line what so ever like my brother in law said with his speed bleeder.

So I guess the culprit is the master cylinder?

[stealthee]

If you put a new master in then the master is good and you need to try to adjust free play. I just removed me master and I have about 4 threads showing from the end of the rod to the locknut. That doesn't mean yours will be exactly the same, but it gives you a starting point.

[Mike-92RT]

I will remove the master cylinder tonight after work hopefully. The nut holding the brake line on is on there pretty good lol

[stealthee]

I don't think the master is your problem. I think the adjustment is causing you to not get enough travel. When my master went bad the car still drove and shifted fine, I was just losing fluid.

[Mike-92RT]

Yea that's what mine did, it leaked fluid onto my shoe lol.. still kind of drove fine, I replaced it with my new master, and it was decent, sometimes stuck to the floor.. now it just sticks to the floor. I didn't do anything to the master when I got it, I just took it out of the box and installed it lol :/

[R/T93]

The threaded rod that goes from your pedal into the master cyl iz what Stealthee is talking about. Loosen the lockout and turn the knurled rod away from the threads on the pedal assembly. So, thread it towards the engine bay until there are a couple threads of the rod sticking out from the female thread block.

[stealthee]

Yea that's what mine did, it leaked fluid onto my shoe lol.. still kind of drove fine, I replaced it with my new master, and it was decent, sometimes stuck to the floor.. now it just sticks to the floor. I didn't do anything to the master when I got it, I just took it out of the box and installed it lol :/

Installing it without making any adjustment is exactly where your problem lies.

[Mike-92RT]

Ok so I tried adjusting today, but I picked the wrong day. It was raining, seat was still in, barely fit in there. I'm gonna do it another day. BUT..

I managed to disconnect the pedal from the master as I think mine is a different setup from the instructions off here. I pulled the pin put and went to separate the two and I barely did it. It was so hard to push it in. So I guess I have good pressure. But from on my back, looking up at the assembly, do I twist it right or left?
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss258/Mike92RT/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0658.jpg

[stealthee]

You don't have to separate the connector from the pedal. You should have just broke the lock nut loose, then spun the rod.

[Mike-92RT]

Ah Damn lol... Well I can easily put it back. How much should I turn it? And how many threads should I leave at the end of the rod?

[stealthee]

Where mine was when I parked my car was showing about 4 threads past the bracket. So about 4 threads closest to the pedal.

That doesn't mean that's where yours will end up being at, but it is a start. It looks like you have too many threads showing right now though.

[Mike-92RT]

Would those many turns make a huge difference? I have a little bit of pressure near the floor. And I after bleeding yesterday, the pedal pops up the odd time too. I'm getting closer!!! :)

I just wanna get this solved so I can finally start the newer jdm engine lol

[stealthee]

You'd be surprised what difference one turn of the rod will do. It looks like you have about 7 threads showing, so you'll end up needed 2-3 turns to get in the ballpark.

[Mike-92RT]

Ok so from looking at it from laying down, do I turn it left or right?

[stealthee]

I always struggle with that lol. Turn it till you see a difference in thread count lol

[Mike-92RT]

Ok I'll do it tonight. I'll try leaving 4 threads and see how it feels. Do I basically just check how it feels with my foot? Would it hurt if I go more?

[R/T93]

It won't hurt if you go too much. Leave threads on your short end, the actual end of the rod. For reference, mine is pretty much flush with the thread block, my clutch needs tons of throw vs the stock one.

[stealthee]

Try leaving the 4 threads, then try pressing the pedal with just your thumb until you feel resistance. That distance is the free play I talked about earlier and posted the pic from the owners manual.

[Mike-92RT]

Well, after a long overdue update.. the pedal adjustment has fixed my problem!!!!!!! :D :D

I wanna thank stealthee for all your help and anyone else who participated, giving me advice. Now the real test. Will my jdm engine start... Lol I will be doing that tomorrow.