Please Educate Me: E36 M3s

[lawdogg]

Looking to pick up a commuter and my eye is on a particular E36 M3 I found for sale, it's a 4-door auto for sale for a little over $3k.

Currently it won't shift into 4th, owner says it's probably a wheel speed sensor which is cheap.

Can anyone give me any advice? Anything to look out for when I inspect it / anything to ask the owner about? Any personal experiences with them?

Thanks,
Ryan

[HilbillyHomeboy]

I had a 95 E36 325i. The computer/display in the middle front console gave me unlimited grief, and affected all kinds of other operation(s) of the vehicle. Some stupid brake part fell off and grooved my inner front rim within hours of buying it(LOL). This was an 80k mile car.

Anytime someone says what's wrong with a car, and the fix is "cheap", they are usually full of shit and just trying to pawn their problem off to the next shlub. If it's so cheap and easy, why didn't they fix it themselves? Most mechanics will tell you owning a German car without a warranty is a disaster waiting to happen. My BMW experience (owned 2) has also shown me the cars are very sensitive to part tolerances. IE, they like Bavarian and not local auto parts stores parts. I fought and fought with a 318i and the clutch. Finally got a hold of the right person and they informed that the car will (basically) not tolerate an aftermarket clutch. Ordered a genuine BMW clutch and never had another problem. Same mechanic did the work, so there was labor control.

Do what you want, but that's not the kind of car I would be considering for a dd. :)

Jeremy

[lawdogg]

Thanks Jeremy. I'd like to get more info on the E36 in this thread, but I'd also appreciate suggestions for other cars that could fit the bill for a unique, fun, 4-door car in the NA Miata price range (since that was what I initially set out to find). Any ideas?

[Jimvr4]

Ryan, might want to check bimmer forums for specific info. I have an E90 and happy but they're far above your price range still.

[familyMAN]

Bimmerforums.com is a good forum for research (decent forced induction section also filled with mostly e36 builds;))

I haven't owned an e36 but we loved our e39 540i. I would steer you that way for a dd just because it was very comfortable, sporty, not super heavy but still felt like a solid and substantial car.

This should make more sense......E36 = DSM. E39 = 3S.

Both have 90s German electronics so why not drive the nicer one:). We didn't have any issue a with ours. I changed a water pump which was easy. Had around 115k IIRC when we sold it for the minivan:( I had enough confidence in it that we were supercharger shopping. (Was my wife's dd and she loved stoplight blasts.)

Edit: I did replace tires also. Rears seemed to wear abnormally fast:D

[lawdogg]

Thanks both. Maybe it's just the E36 auto trannies that seem like nightmares.

With the size, I want an NA Miata. My other half wants me to get "a real car" instead of "another toy car" that "I'll be working on all the time" so we don't "have to take her car everywhere" ... the 4-door E36 / Audi B5 chassis is about as big as I want to go. Any bigger and I'll be looking at wagons. In fact, I would love a B5 S4 avant but they are too expensive out here.

[Jimvr4]

My son had a B5 A4 with a 5 speed for a while but totaled it a couple of years ago and got an E92 328i. The A4 was a bit underpowered and difficult to work on (I had to do everything while he watched lol). Typical german car. He has a couple of years to get the E92 paid off.

[familyMAN]

E39 sedan isn't huge. Basically sized like a new 3 series. Approx 34XX lbs if I recall. Considered the benchmark for sedan handling for many years.

E39 wagon? I could never convince my wife to go wagon:(

Edit: our 540i was listed as 3750 curb weight. Heavier than I thought but not totally surprising. Was a really nice car to drive. I'd daily one in a heart beat.

[lawdogg]

I actually was looking at DSMs :p

[anyonebutme]

I have/had both E36s and E39s. Like my answer to everything, "it depends on what you want". I highly suggest a manual in ANY BMW, and avoid like the plague 1st gen SMG gearboxes. Also, I would personally only look at I6 BMW's unless it was a clean M5, out of your price range. I also wouldn't bother with the US spec E36 M3 unless the price is right, it's not really that much better than the 325/328, and the 3.0-3.2L has enough trouble keeping head gaskets on at stock power, so making modern HP out of it is pointless while the 2.5 makes easy 350 RWHP with just a turbo slapped on. Do your research to see which parts you can use aftermarket and which ones to buy OEM.

E39 Pros: Looks best, quiet, small enough while having real room inside, cheaper insurance. cons are the V8 won't last nearly as long as the I6's and valley pan and rocker gaskets will be changed a few times in it's life on the V8, dead display pixels, and electrical issues like AC fan and door locks having mind of their own. Like my alarm also randomly goes off in the afternoon. Also, you'll replace a few window regulators, not hard. power steering lines will leak on both. The I6 has rack and pinion steering while the V8 cars have truck steering, lol. You probably won't notice a difference driving around. Torque arm bushings will need replaced unless done so lately, get the HD bushings or flip X5 ones, then you won't have to worry for a long time. No LSD available unless you swap in M5 rear diff and subframe, or pony up big bucks for Kaaz.

E36 pros: Light, compact car size, more mod paths, cheaper and more available parts, LSD in the M3 and winter package non-traction control cars, less electronic issues in my experience. cons: rear subframe tearout requires reinforcement, insurance is slightly more, and if you plan on tracking, oil pump nut.

FWIW, I sold my 325 to Boomer with like 280K miles on it, and he proceeded to ream it til 320K miles, until he managed to blow apart 2nd gear. You know how I drove it, you can imagine how he drove it.

[lawdogg]

Thanks man. Much appreciated. (I know I could look this up but I'll ask anyway) The only things that make the E36 M3 special compared to a 325 would be the LSD and the bigger engine? I know from the Audi world that the B5 S4 got some other fancy stuff compared to the A4 like unique front uprights and different rear suspension geometry, does the M3 have anything like that too compared to a 325?

The one that I'm looking at tomorrow won't shift into 4th, has the CEL (code p0733) and ASC/ABS lights on, owner thinks it's just a wheel sensor that needs replacing. This is the ad: **1997 BMW M3 CLEAN TITLE great deal!!** (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/4673223687.html)

For $3k, would you consider it or keep looking?

[NOMIEZVR4]

Spend another 3k and get yourself a s2k. WORLDS better than a miata and a REAL handler! My younger brother picked up his 29k ap1 s2000 for 8000...I've been occasionally looking around and I've found a few examples near 100k for 5-6kish....plus if you ever want to boost...STOCK LONGBLOCKS make 600whp ALL DAY...no need to build them because they come forged from the factory.

Skip the bmw's, forget the DSM's and get yourself a Honduh!! s2000's are the shit...TBH...only a fully built to the hilt 3/s can even attempt to beat a stock motor turbo s2k..when my younger brother boosts his s2k he's gonna wipe my the floor with my 16g 3/s..:p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnSDjXO-XUw

look at the video description...unopened longblock...this guy is in chicago too!! 600whp for 4 years..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GyVBbEYuAE&list=UUw0ultMKeBVBO5de16BpiQQ

[bridge]

It needs to be AUTOMATIC for the woman!!!!!

[donniekak]

The us didn't get the e36 m3, we got a 325i with boltons. The real e36 m3 came with 320hp.

[donniekak]

Spend another 3k and get yourself a s2k. WORLDS better than a miata and a REAL handler! My younger brother picked up his 29k ap1 s2000 for 8000...I've been occasionally looking around and I've found a few examples near 100k for 5-6kish....plus if you ever want to boost...STOCK LONGBLOCKS make 600whp ALL DAY...no need to build them because they come forged from the factory.

Skip the bmw's, forget the DSM's and get yourself a Honduh!! s2000's are the shit...TBH...only a fully built to the hilt 3/s can even attempt to beat a stock motor turbo s2k..when my younger brother boosts his s2k he's gonna wipe my the floor with my 16g 3/s..:p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnSDjXO-XUw

look at the video description...unopened longblock...this guy is in chicago too!! 600whp for 4 years..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GyVBbEYuAE&list=UUw0ultMKeBVBO5de16BpiQQ

I was debating coming up your way on my journey across America. I should have. I bet one Saturday night could have paid for my entire trip. Turbo Hondas, lololololololol.

[lawdogg]

Ok I passed on M3. Setting out to find a clean manual 325 / 328. She's gotta learn to drive stick sometime. Now is the time. And I like the boost idea. Might try to find a drop top.

[familyMAN]

I was debating coming up your way on my journey across America. I should have. I bet one Saturday night could have paid for my entire trip. Turbo Hondas, lololololololol.

Nomie could have found a lot better to race than turbo diesels like in my neck of the woods.

[anyonebutme]

To answer your question, E36 M3 got a different engine, DME, front lollipop bushings on the 95 and different LCA's on 96+, rear subframe is slightly different, rear trailing arms are different, rear diff ratio, and they got a ZF instead of a Getrag transmission, different springs and damper, and some small stuff. In reality, none of it really is that different, and the things that are you usually change anyways to aftermarket or to replace old stuff with anyways.

You should be able to pick up a 325/328 for 2K or less in decent condition. I passed on like 5 locally, including some nice E46's for 5-7K.

Also on all BMW's, cooling system replacement is preventive maint. About $500 in parts and a weekend or less every 60-100K miles depending on how brave you are. DO NOT overheat the I6 engine, iron block and aluminum head I6 is a recipe for warped head and blown gaskets.

[bridge]

Dave can tell you about changing the water pump in the parking lot at UMG. However I believe the replacement was "cheaper"/plastic so they (Dan and Dave) put the old one back in after inspection. That or they were swapping parts between the two. At least you don't have to deal with salt unless you go skiing?

[familyMAN]

Here's some e36 turbo motivation for you....(from bimmerforums.)


Thought I would post up some vids, pics and info of the 1/2 mile wannagofast event we ran in this past weekend at Heavens Landing airstrip in Clayton, Georgia. Myself and SM3 both first timers in the 1/2 mile...:D

Best time for SM3 165.5mph in his CES 4094r Turbo M3 running only 16.5psi and 625whp, and 168.5mph best time in the CES GTX35r car running the same power at 25psi. I'm sure we could have hit 170's, but weather came in and we decided to call it a day...

Special thanks to Nick @ Technique Tuning for getting the GTX Turbo M3 up and running with some last minute tuning to make the event, Tony Parrish for the outstanding photos, and SOHO Motorsports who provided transportation and event help!



Video: First pass SM3 clocks in at 163mph, and the GTX M3 blows off a pipe :( and runs 116mph.. Quick fix and she's up and running again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXtXDVPdnC4


The GTX35R M3 ran on 25psi of boost 100 octane no meth injection for the event. Blue line on dyno graph below is the new power. Red line was the older AA tune. Picked up quite a bit of power across the entire range especially at spool and up top where power used to fall off before.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/10317564_526580717473525_2094596658365026128_o.jpg

https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1937493_525093934288870_5313695245094364688_n.jpg? oh=f2dddb9c970947c2cee930eb01f4abfd&oe=54C8A89E

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/1496119_526570857474511_9155419812833971146_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/10604474_526570874141176_2882056151215216494_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t31.0-8/1900544_526570970807833_2533762605011599188_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10620138_526571000807830_1159040037916640113_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/1606436_526571067474490_1256178192479259057_o.jpg


On our second pass of the day... GTX35R runs 166.7 left lane... GT4094R runs 165.5 right lane...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/10708719_526571080807822_5978078205661237136_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/1926051_526571250807805_1856052096523643852_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/10608196_526571280807802_2472900841054321751_o.jpg

https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10683592_526570814141182_2897517464888328820_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/10644150_526570914141172_3482228646471780047_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/10608458_526570897474507_3850337342209409136_o.jpg

The CES Motorsport Team

[bridge]

Okay talked to Dan real quick. Strut towers are a big one that need replacing/stiffing. Also in his opinion the m engine is the better one, not just horsepowerwise but "quality" too.

You can always do an ls swap. ;)

[anyonebutme]

The front and rear towers don't need the recall plates unless running more than stock spring rate, and when you change out the springs you just toss in the plates, they just get placed between the strut and the tower, no welding required, but a lot do anyways because:

You'll probably be welding a lot on the car at the same time: Trailing arm bucket reinforcement, rear subframe reinforcement (not needed on 1996+ M3), rear subframe sway bar bracket reinforcement, front subframe sway bar reinforcement, rear subframe dual sheer diff bolt reinforcement.

I only did the subframe because mine was tore out, because I was running just lowering springs and stock sway bars, didn't need to do the towers or brackets. Also didn't do the bolt because stock HP and low grip tires, just a new bolt. Also, you'll want Mahle HD bushings for the upper damper mounts in the rear, stockers tend to die withing 30K miles.

The only water pump worth buying to me is the Stewart for a car that sees track, otherwise I just buy the BMW metal one, screw the plastic ones. LS swap is always an appropriate answer, although Jason will not agree with me there.

[bridge]

Can Ryan keep anything at stock height? :p

[anyonebutme]

About as easy as I can keep anything NOT turbocharged, lol. Hense my love for the 2.5 block and head.

I put H&R race springs on mine, it's as low as you'd ever want to get it honestly. Scrapes on speedbumps.

[lawdogg]

Great info. All these things has made me start looking at Miatas again. :p

[familyMAN]

Great info. All these things has made me start looking at Miatas again. :p

This. I keep telling you a turbo is the way to go with a miata! Don't have to get crazy with it. Mine was a low boost (8psi) setup with an archaic FMU and it was a blast. There are better options of course but it was super cheap. An already turbo charged miata is in your price range......do it.

[Boomer3000]

Love my E36, picked up a new transmission for it for $200. Took me a weekend to have it in the car by myself so not to bad. I have toyed with turbocharging mine but can't bring myself to do it till I had another car. At the moment the car sits at 311,000 miles and with the acception of me grenading the transmission ( yea my bad) it's a great car. And believe me I am rough and that's being modest on cars. So for it to have put up with my style of driving she gets an A plus.

[Boost4VR4]

I have an E60 for my DD. A little outside your price range, but they are coming down in value. They are comfortable, fairly reliable (what German car is extremely reliable?) and they usually come in auto which will be good for the women. The only things to watch for on the E60/E90s are High pressure fuel pump, injectors, intake valves gunked up, and the suspension will sag over time (similar to the older Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable).

[lawdogg]

Well, this is interesting. E36 M3 the #1 best BMW on ebay for under $10k lol Here Are The Ten Best BMWs You Can Buy On eBay For Less Than $20,000 (http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/here-are-the-ten-best-bmws-you-can-buy-on-ebay-for-less-1637615226/1637737129/+travis)

[anyonebutme]

riiiiiiiiight. If I had 10K right now I know a sweet turbo LS E36 that would be in my garage.....

[Boomer3000]

Duck yea I would buy an LS E36 in a heart beat!

[lawdogg]

Ran away from E36s, found something practical and fun. My new VR. :rimshot:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ywdHu60VGgc/VFVIqCKtdDI/AAAAAAAAF8A/DGJTBYL7Uiw/s800/IMG_20141101_120846606_HDR.jpg

[DocWalt]

Love those things, nice ride, Ryan!

[lawdogg]

Thanks man! It's pretty cool. Excited to learn more about it as I go.

(Bridget, no shaking your head lol)

[anyonebutme]

Whatever, Paul.

[bridge]

Rofl...... Also did I tell you Dan wants to visit as well.... So trip has been delayed till next year when weather is warmer :(

[lawdogg]

So this thing has active yaw control that works pretty dang well ... put it into active race mode and chucked it into a turn, rear came out in nice balanced oversteer, great rotation. This wagon's a blast.


Rofl...... Also did I tell you Dan wants to visit as well.... So trip has been delayed till next year when weather is warmer :(

Ok come out whenever you guys want. It'll always be temperate compared to Chicago. :p These days it's cool at night (low 50s?) and nice during the day (60s), instead of 60s at night and 80s during the day. Time it to come out during a race weekend, check out Sonoma or Thunderhill with me. I'll let you know how that develops.

[bridge]

Ooooo I like that idea.

Convo a couple of weeks ago
Dan: doing anything this weekend.
Me: no but I should have booked a plane ticket to San Fran
Dan: who the hell do you know in San Fran
Me: Lawdogg and Blair
Dan: shit..... I wanna come
Me :rollseyes:

[anyonebutme]

I say we tow out there, start in washington at the ridge, and hit every awesome track on the way down the coast.

Or rental car madness, whatever.

[Jimvr4]

I'm in :)

[lawdogg]

That's a great idea, I'm in too.