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Greg E
03-31-2014, 12:15 PM
3000GT VR4 Hi-Performance Final Stages Build List (http://cjbyron.com/build/performance_upgrade_guide_5.htm)

This article was recently brought to my attention. While people will always have opinions, the disturbing thing about this one are all the inaccuracies and false ideologies about what exactly it is I offer to the community.


A quick note about the recent "chrome" or reflashing of Factory ECU that has come up in the last year or so - The factory 3000GT ECU was never intended to be "open source" to the public nor be programmable by the end user.

The problem with this statement is it’s a lot like saying the 3000GT was never intended to produce 1000hp. Somehow people have still done this even though it was never designed for it. It’s not about what things were intended for, it’s about what they can do. The genius comes from someone’s ability to find a use for something beyond what it was intended to be.


Although there are a few that figured out how to 'reflash' the EEPROM in the ECU to make changes that isn't the best idea for most peoples situation. It is pretty much just a hobbyist type scenario and also few individuals hoping to make a little money off those wanting a stand alone but not wanting to spend the money.

Chrome is and always will be donation-ware and most of its users haven’t even donated for it. None of the donation $$ has been spent on anything for me personally. All of it went back to the community in the form of sponsorships for gatherings or R&D of products I have been designed to take the stock ECU beyond its current sensor limitations.

The whole effort behind reverse engineering the stock code has only been for the purpose of learning and sharing. All the knowledge Jeff and I have uncovered has benefited many standalone users as it’s helped them to better tune their cars to run, drive and perform like it was stock. If this was something I was planning on making $$ from, I wouldn’t be giving it all away for free to the community nor would I be offering support to anyone who wishes to use it (especially to the users who haven’t paid for it).

Chrome itself would be a legal LLC business and I’d be paying taxes, insurance and writing up quarterly profit reports. I do not have nor ever had any intentions of taking this to a level of making profits. Chrome would not be donation-ware if I had any intentions of taking this to the professional level. You would be seeing banners with my logo all over the internet and the forums which would be advertising my “product”. You would never see me recommend any other tuning device… This community is shrinking as more and more of these cars disappear with age, accidents and idiotic owners. There is simply no real market here to even attempt a profit off…

Think I know where someone would come up with this idea though which I will address next...

Greg E
03-31-2014, 12:16 PM
Heck the two are even arguing amongst themselves these days and wanting the chump change all for themselves. Seriously, you don't want to bother with that sort of high school type setup unless you are into tinkering and have nothing better to do. If after a year or two these prove to have value and not just some new fad to make a couple kids a few dollars then I might revisit the topic.
Jeff and I have been friends for quite a few years now and have gotten along great both privately and publicly. I am struggling to remember or even find a post where he and I are arguing about anything…

What this author probably doesn’t realize is there are two other guys who have been separate from the code disassembly side who run a business designing an ECU to utilize the Chrome ROM and bring it into your 91-97 3/S. These guys are Brett (Clone ECU) and Jesters. This is where you will find the “highschool drama” as these guys are competitors in a small market.

What you need to be aware of is I have no affiliation with these businesses or their practices. The Clone and Jesters ECU are simply the hardware these guys have designed to run the software. The term has always been “Chrome your Clone.” While the “Chrome ECU” name is typically the term thrown around, I do not nor have ever sold Clone or Jesters ECUs. I do not have any desire to manufacture a product to compete with these guys either.

I also do not have any affiliation with Tactrix, EVOScan or ECUFlash (the programs/hardware needed to read/write ROMs to the ECU. The owners of these businesses don’t even bother to communicate to me.


There's no real professional support for such methods currently nor will most professional tuners bother with such backyard style modifications. Now if you want to go at it as a hobby, risk your engine being damaged, or ruin your factory ECU then this might then make sense.

False. There are many shops offering flash ECU tuning including Pampena Motorsports, 3SX (who distribute the Jesters ECU), IPS Motorsports, Ninja Performance and even Morgan Motorsports has dabbled into it.


It has no where near the abilities of a true standalone like the AEM. Not even close to the features, abilities or support. A true standalone does hundreds of other settings, controlling, and monitoring that these "reflashed" modified ECUs (telemetry, gauge controls and outputs, transmission and shifting control, nitrous control, staging, launch control, boost control and racing controls, dozens of switches with parameters to do whatever you want (at xxx rpm do this and do that unless over/under/at xx mph, traction controls, tons of ignition options, custom and water injection controls, etc. etc). My recommendation - if you need a standalone system then do it properly and buy the AEM or equal standalone EMS system. You'd be glad you did. It is just too important to your entire engine and performance to risk with some homespun hack job or hobby-style reprogramming. heck just look at the AEM (or Motec, etc) software and you can see how much they do. There really is no comparison.

The demand for a simple tuning solution is far greater than most performance modification. This is what I’ve given the community with Chrome. It’s a base map designed to work with the 3/S and all of it’s OEM components that gives you OEM drivability AND keep OBD2 compatibility right away with minimal effort.

No standalone tuning device is legal in all States. Only an OEM 98/99 ECU, Clone or Jesters ECU running Chrome or the factory 98/99 ROM can be registered, inspected, smogged and licensed in this country. All emissions equipment like the EGR, purge system and cat monitoring O2 sensors operate just like the Government Mandated regulations intended. If you’re going to drive your 3/S legally on the streets, this is pretty much your only option.
No standalone can compete with the OEM ROM in its knock detection either. For years, the secretes of how Mitsubishi distinguished knock from normal engine harmonics have been locked away from us. It goes so far beyond just a noise level threshold and now that the secretes are out, it can be adapted into most standalones.

On the flip side, no… I haven’t written the code to give all the features of most standalones. This simply comes down to demand and time. The features with the highest demand are the features I’m working on (and will be releasing soon). If a user inquires to me about going with a standalone or running Chrome, the answer has always boiled down to if the user needs the features that Chrome doesn’t offer. Things like “live tunability” aren’t available simply because the hardware in the OEM ECU doesn’t support it and altering that limitation is beyond my skill level at this time so I point these users towards standalones.

Chrome does offer features like launch control, boost control, knock warning lights and custom switched outputs (think Nitros or WI triggers) which are the main draws to the program. All of this is simply code I’ve written on top of the OEM code to give it more usability. There are many more features in the works but have kept behind the scenes to avoid hype.

If you need things like traction control, individual coil operation or transmission control then chrome will not work for you. Many of these things won’t be available simply because the hardware of the OEM ECU cannot support it.

One can argue that MoTec, AEM or even Megasquirt are inferior standalones compared to some of the very high dollar options available today like a TAG-400 ECU. It costs somewhere in the area of 60 grand and if features are your meal ticket then this setup makes the prior seem like “hacked backyard” back yard style setups. It’s all a matter of perspective.


Lastly it goes back to the beginning of this writeup and listening to forum parrots and people that just read about others and nonsense on the internet. 99% of those saying the AEM is this or the reflashed are that have never themselves even tuned a car or used an AEM standalone system of any kind. It's called rationalization whereby they cannot afford the AEM so they convince themselves that going cheap with this hobby type system is as good or better (lol,,yeah, right). For those that do - no offense meant but if I am going to be honest in this guide then these things need to be said to prevent others from spending money or planning before they see the entire playing field and stop listening to parrots on car forums. Once again because it is one of the more important things to take from this is: stop listening to parrots on car forums.

As for the rest - don't listen to someone that just makes some pocket change off doing this 'chrome' or reflashing (kinda conflict of interest eh? Money.) nor the nutswingers that live on some forum. Of course the person wanting to make a little money for his hobbie wants you to buy it. Look at their cars and/or accomplishments (ie - any of these so called 'vocal' know-it-alls). Most of them have a POS for a car, or it doesn't even run. They have all these 'plans' that never come to be in real life. Kind of like people that rely on 'virtual dyno' instead of putting the car on a real dyno. It is just a way to bend the facts to what they would like it to be. All talk right? The last thing you want to do is follow someone that pretty much failed in their build (and those are many times the loudest in a forum on what "you" should do,,,,LOL).

Not even going to get into the hypocrisy of this…

While I appreciate constructive criticism, at least have an educated opinion on a subject before judging it. The respect or “parroting” about me and my work simply comes from my attitude towards its users and the community. People tend to support those who respect and support them.

If you’re going to belittle me, at least take the time to educate yourself about who I am and what I have done (at least read my latest posts about the “virtual dynos”). You’re welcome to believe what you wish, but I will ask that you not post things about me, personally, that are untrue.

j2k4
03-31-2014, 12:33 PM
Chrome, and by extension the clone ECUs, are pretty damned popular with the 3S community.

The postage and frothings of a few egocentric individuals will gather a few nods of agreement, but that is all.

Greg, you guys keep doing what you're doing - the rest of us are good with it. :)

Chris@Rvengeperformance
03-31-2014, 12:43 PM
Chrome is one of the biggest things to happen to us, along with DRs billet TD04s, and Pampena's engines. Anyone that doesn't believe that must somehow think the piggybacks we've been using for the last 20 years are somehow better, because Chrome or not there just aren't a lot of standalone cars.

It honestly sounds like the individual that posted the false information must have a personal problem with you or others and cannot be objective.

green-lantern
03-31-2014, 01:28 PM
Chrome is one of the biggest things to happen to us

This

I know how much you have put into this and how little you have got out of it. At NG you were working on code every chance you could (when I and or Dan was snoring) lol. Anyway THANK YOU for all the time you have put into this and all the help you have given me. It pisses me off seeing you get badmouthed when I know how much time you have donated to the community.

95gto
03-31-2014, 01:47 PM
If you’re going to belittle me, at least take the time to educate yourself about who I am and what I have done (at least read my latest posts about the “virtual dynos”). You’re welcome to believe what you wish, but I will ask that you not post things about me, personally, that are untrue.

Greg I have seen first hand that you suck at tanning.......almost as much as me. That's all I got for educated belittlement.


The thing I would like to stress is that disassembling the factory ecu code, setting up software to alter said disassembled code, or reverse engineering the hardware on the ecu's is not backyard hobbyist crap.

HLxDrummer
03-31-2014, 02:05 PM
I wouldn't even be bothered by that. The work you and the others have done is awesome and tons of people are using it as a result (speaks for itself). I had no problem donating for each version and I think it is worth more than the required donation.

I think this ECU is and will be more than enough for 98% of the 3/S population. Some might like to tinker with the AEM or whatever but I doubt very many people NEED it.

Thanks for all your hard work (and the others) - you should be proud!

green-lantern
03-31-2014, 02:10 PM
Greg I have seen first hand that you suck at tanning.......almost as much as me. That's all I got for educated belittlement.


:lol: This!!

Nihil
03-31-2014, 02:18 PM
That is laughable, only a few of us know the extent of how humorous this is.

Greg, what you've done for this community is one of the greatest that anyone has done thus far in the world of the 3/S.

Greg E
03-31-2014, 02:20 PM
Greg I have seen first hand that you suck at tanning.......almost as much as me. That's all I got for educated belittlement.


The thing I would like to stress is that disassembling the factory ecu code, setting up software to alter said disassembled code, or reverse engineering the hardware on the ecu's is not backyard hobbyist crap.

I come in 2 colors. White and Pink... :lol:

Forgot to point out that a huge chunk of the $$ went into the licenses for the programs that I used for disassembling and editing the ROM. I couldn't pirate these companies in good faith as their software really is worth what I paid for.

whitedragon
03-31-2014, 04:03 PM
The thing I would like to stress is that disassembling the factory ecu code, setting up software to alter said disassembled code, or reverse engineering the hardware on the ecu's is not backyard hobbyist crap.

Does anybody say the folks using Hondata or DSMLink are backyard hacks?

Chris@Rvengeperformance
03-31-2014, 04:17 PM
or accessport, or the GM flashable ecus, or all the other flash tuning solutions that are popular. Probably 90%+ cars with a "tune" are mail order programmers.

j2k4
03-31-2014, 04:24 PM
Greg I have seen first hand that you suck at tanning.......almost as much as me. That's all I got for educated belittlement.


The thing I would like to stress is that disassembling the factory ecu code, setting up software to alter said disassembled code, or reverse engineering the hardware on the ecu's is not backyard hobbyist crap.

How about extreme, bleeding-edge hobbyist crap? :p

j2k4
03-31-2014, 04:36 PM
One really good, exemplary thing I attribute to the PC/tech age is the survival of the spirit of generosity that is embodied in efforts such as Greg's.

Kudos to you, Greg; wish I had similar abilities to apply here. :)

95gto
03-31-2014, 05:04 PM
Does anybody say the folks using Hondata or DSMLink are backyard hacks?

I'm pretty sure we just call DSM drivers cheap and Honda drivers confused.

J-Groove
03-31-2014, 05:13 PM
Others have already said it in this thread, but I want to as well.

Thank you Greg, and Jeff, for everything y'all have done to make this a reality and continuing in making it even more awesome each year!

-John

CoopKill
03-31-2014, 05:19 PM
Should I take a guess at who posted that, or do you have a link? I have a good idea by the phrasing that was used...

CoopKill
03-31-2014, 05:21 PM
LOL never mind, I found the link in the first post, and damn I was spot on...

A review of me from him is in my sig.

Nihil
03-31-2014, 05:23 PM
Should I take a guess at who posted that, or do you have a link? I have a good idea by the phrasing that was used...

lol look at the web address Bill...


LOL nevermind, I found the link in the first post, and damn I was spot on...

A review of me from him is in my sig.

hahaha

anyonebutme
03-31-2014, 06:24 PM
I'd love to hear AMS's response to being called a backyard hack shop for doing flash tunes to EVO's. I mean, having all those records and being called a hack by a guy who can't even run a decent pass in 10+ years building that....monstrosity.

Anybody want to send them an email? I mean I'd love to hear a response to a guy who ran 10's calling a guy who ran what now, 7's, a hack. Wait, did he even run 10's yet?

HellBringer
03-31-2014, 07:10 PM
^^It ran a few mid/high tens and then spun a bearing before it ever made a pass on KILL. Last I spoke with him he alluded to losing interest and moving on to his other project. Craig's a good guy full of interesting and often unwavering opinions -- this is obviously one of them.. No clue how or why he has said opinion, but it is what it is...


That said.. I love Chrome! It's honestly about the only reason I picked up another one of these cars. :bigthumb:

jba3
03-31-2014, 07:26 PM
My VR4 has been down for 2 years and all I've done with a flashable ECU is install it in a non-running car. I helped with a tiny fraction of EvoScan testing for Jeff V back when my car worked, I saw the early development of Chrome ECU, and I know how potent it is from previously having an Evo and using the same type of mod (Tephra) for that car had me foaming at the mouth for big maps, ECU controlled boost and CEL knock flash.

IMO the two coolest mods on a VR4 are a flashable ECU without piggybacks and the BlackStealth LCD Boost Controller, for it's bling factor / instant OBDII code check capability.

Let the haters hate. The Chrome supporters among the community vastly outnumber a few meek and factless dissenting opinions from someone who doesn't even grasp what they are complaining about in the first place....

stealthee
03-31-2014, 07:45 PM
Chrome is one of the biggest things to happen to us, along with DRs billet TD04s, and Pampena's engines. Anyone that doesn't believe that must somehow think the piggybacks we've been using for the last 20 years are somehow better, because Chrome or not there just aren't a lot of standalone cars.

It honestly sounds like the individual that posted the false information must have a personal problem with you or others and cannot be objective.

Over on the Grand Prix Forum I would say 99% of the modded guys are running a flash tune. Not one of them has been called a hack for it.

It seems to me he thinks it's "hack" because its a cheaper option and it was developed by someone else.

Greg E
03-31-2014, 07:55 PM
My VR4 has been down for 2 years and all I've done with a flashable ECU is install it in a non-running car. I helped with a tiny fraction of EvoScan testing for Jeff V back when my car worked, I saw the early development of Chrome ECU, and I know how potent it is from previously having an Evo and using the same type of mod (Tephra) for that car had me foaming at the mouth for big maps, ECU controlled boost and CEL knock flash.

I remember. Was curious where you disappeared to. Sorry about the bad luck with the car.

llabmik2
04-01-2014, 12:33 AM
I don't understand opinions like that. They only thing they do is hurt the community as a whole.

There is nothing wrong with the stock ECU stuff. I tune ViPEC's almost daily, and I enjoy the stock ECU stuff just as much, be it Chrome/Tephrav7-Xv2/Hondata ect ect. I like seeing the new stuff that Greg comes up with, just helps push the platform farther up, instead of just pushing it down like the negative opinions read on the first page.

Greg keep up the great work!

arm0red1
04-01-2014, 03:11 AM
I find it interesting that he has seemingly such a short sighted and snobbish opinion that he feels that if it isn't a standalone or heck, even an aftermarket add on/replacement that we're doing it wrong. Seems counter progressive to me.

More so this route was even recently validated by one of the most respected in the community, Ray just made a post on fb about tuning a 91 bone stock vr4 and seeing a 50whp gain and 30wtq gain with no modifications aside from tune.....

The man can spout his resentment all he wants or his oddly subjective assertions on a site that, from what I was reading, is supposed to be generally informative. At the end of the day however, the results are in and show considerable gains and mhi's relatively tame fuel mapping.

Im just surprised he can harbor such an opinion that flies in the face for what dsm's have been doing/experimenting with for over a decade, what evos and subies have been catching on in the last 5-7 years, and frankly, what Almost all sport compact and performance vehicles are generally capable of doing since the early to mid 2000's. He's referring to this as some sort of fad, except that this technology has been around almost as long as the stand alone options have. Even more surprisingly, he's ignoring the results demonstrated by flash tunning on several different platforms......

Ayyy yai yai.....

vr4tune
04-01-2014, 07:25 AM
This is nothing more than a personal attack. Sorry Greg for having to deal with this. You have been a great help to us and my hat is off to you for your hard work. Great job and may us all be back yard hacks!