Best Turbo Setup

[chooch]

Hi Guys,

I was just wondering what you consider the best turbo setup, i.e. whats the most fun???
I've gone from 9b - 11g - 15g and wondering where to go now. Interested to hear your thoughts, single, TD04 or not etc etc.

cheers,
Ewam

[Alex3000gt]

There really is no 'best turbo setup', it is a relative term.

Some factors that may go into your turbo decision:
Budget
Plans for the car - Drag only? AutoX? Road Racing? Daily driving? All four?
Budget

[mb3000]

A lot of the guys who have been around for a while usually recommend TD04's for fun on the street. Most notably, DR750's.

[FeaRpb]

I hear those DR 750's are awesome.

[anyonebutme]

19T's, best turbo eva!

[J-Groove]

Two main questions.

What is your power goal?
What kind of fuel do you want to run?

-John

[chooch]

Hi, thanks for your replies, my questions were generic, and more directed at those who have changed turbos multiple times. I havn't been in a car faster than my own, so how can I set a power goal? I run road fuel on the road, but have been known to use race gas for the track, but again generic question for those who have ran different turbos. e.g. 16g / T3 or T3/T4 or DR... My car is multi purpose, road and track, so the turbo has to do both.
My thoughts were 9b's not very interesting, except good initial pull, 11g's were a good allround bpu turbo, I had 15g's fitted with a standalone etc and they were a bit boring as it was such a smooth power delivery...

[whitedragon]

19T's, best turbo eva!

Based on the OP's responses....can't really go wrong here.

[kywhitelightning]

Two main questions.

What is your power goal?
What kind of fuel do you want to run?

-John

This especially.


19T's, best turbo eva!

And, this.

Jeff

[chooch]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your replies, so are you all running 19T's? I didn't realise that they were that popular. What type of driving do you do with them, drag, street, track etc? I from the results I've seen there isn't a great gain going to 19T from 15g...

cheers,
Ewan

[J-Groove]

I'm running 19T HLs with 9 blade turbine wheels. They spool great.

But fuel is the big questions.

Right now I am barley working my 19Ts, I'm running pump 93 with a fully stock block and heads. To get anymore out of them I will need to either do a meth injection, E85, race gas or stage 3 heads.

If I had not gotten such a great deal on the turbos, I would be wasting their potential and should have stayed with my 13Ts.

You already have 15Gs.

So with that in mind.

If you're staying on pump gas and you have stock heads, look into some DR650s or going TD05.

If you're thinking of doing meth, E85, racegas tune or upgraded heads, look into some DR750s, 19Ts or TD05s.

-John

[kywhitelightning]

19T's are a SIGNIFICANT upgrade from 15G's as long as you are willing to run enough octane improvement to run them hard. 19T's will go into the 600AWHP range where I think the highest HP 15G car I have seen was right near 500. That's huge.

Pump gas and sub 450 HP, keep your 15G's and enjoy the money you saved yourself. More than that on pump gas, look into TD05's or T3 turbos up to a huge single.

Methanol injection allows my TD04 setup to run 600AWHP simply by puting 93 in the gas tank. Add C16 and I think these DR750's can make 700. I had 19T's and loved them. They can make the power that 95% of this forum would ever want, need, or could afford. They are probably the best all around turbo available to us TD04 guys.

Jeff

[chooch]

Thanks guys, interesting info, 19T's do seem an interesting turbo. I'm actually running a GT3076r, which we tuned to MBT on sunoco GT plus last summer, but normally run 95RON petrol. I've got a GT40/42 hybrid I've been waiting to put on, but that project's going to take a while, but will prob interchange it with a GTX35 for road use. Tempted to sling on a set of TD04's as a temporary measure... But its interesting to see what a fun turbo is. Most turbos are knock limited on petrol, so you have to go to race gas or similar to extract the full potential, so don't really see the relevance of fuel. I thought some might like the initial punch of 9b's or top end of the big tubs, but it seems 19T's are right in the middle.

Cheers,
Ewan

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

maybe it was the tune, maybe it was the car, maybe it was me.. but 19Ts at 15 PSI just felt the same as 13Ts, only lazier. DR750s on the other hand respond like 13Ts still and make 400 at 15PSI on a stock tune. for me it is go cheap (13T) or get the best if you are sticking TD04 (DR750). Other than that I would love a GTX2863 setup, but can't see ever really finding space to run them hard enough to make them better than the 750s.

[NOMIEZVR4]

My 19ts came alive past 15lbs of boost. I also made 400whp at 15lbs with pump 93.

[thor'svr4]

maybe it was the tune, maybe it was the car, maybe it was me.. but 19Ts at 15 PSI just felt the same as 13Ts, only lazier. DR750s on the other hand respond like 13Ts still and make 400 at 15PSI on a stock tune. for me it is go cheap (13T) or get the best if you are sticking TD04 (DR750). Other than that I would love a GTX2863 setup, but can't see ever really finding space to run them hard enough to make them better than the 750s.

Couldnt have said it better myself. 19Ts are great but back when i did my 13T upgrade the 19Ts were twice the price of a set of 13Ts... If i was going to spend the money on a set of 19Ts i would have just gone with DR750s.

That being said i loved my 13Ts. the boost hit very early and pulled to redline. it was enough power to just slightly spin from a 15'ish roll just by smacking the gas. 400awhp at 16psi on straight pump 93, 480awhp on pump 93 + water/meth inj (how i daily drove it), 518awhp on C16 + water/meth.

hopefully ill have some billet DR1000 results within the next few weeks.

[IPD]

imho, td05's are better for 3.5L engines. on a stock 3.0L, i would stick to td04's.

the reason i chose 16g's and 3.5L was because 16g's are an MHI stock turbo, so (at least they used to be) relatively cheap to replace. 19t's and especially dr750's will cost you big if you have to completely replace one of them. as to the 3.5L, everyone who has ran 16g's on a 3.0L will tell you there's a bit more lag than they'd probably like (at least for a street car). since my goal was (and maybe someday will be again) 500awhp, pure pump gas, on mild boost--3.5L + 16g makes a lot of sense. it could possibly be done in the 18-19 psi range...without even creeping towards knock. nothing for bragging rights by any stretch...but still more AWHP than even a new c7 stingray has at the crank...and pushing close to the RWHP of a c7 z06.

[HilbillyHomeboy]

3.0 liter + EVO3's + heads/cams + pump gas + 14-15 psi will do 515awhp all day long.

Jeremy

[IPD]

even better. i have all that (minus cams), and 3.5L. i don't care what anyone says. reliable is more fun than extreme power.

[HilbillyHomeboy]

It really is. 500awhp in these cars is an absolute blast.

Jeremy

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

500 was the edge of grip rolling around in 2nd at like 30 and punching it on the 750s. 1st was a smokefest if you were not pointed absolutely straight. seemed like plenty at the time. enough that I would've gotten a lot faster just re-learning to drive.

I had it turned up to around 550 previously (but was not logging, no plots) for a bit and it was impossible to keep it off the rev limit in 1st. I needed a lot more practice. In 2nd hitting bumps in road could case the tires to spin at that power level. I don't think you need 600 to have any fun.

[sketch]

even better. i have all that (minus cams), and 3.5L. i don't care what anyone says. reliable is more fun than extreme power.

If you ain't breakin' stuff you ain goin' fast'nuff.
/redneck

But there is truth in this statement...but then again, we all have different definitions of fun.

[kywhitelightning]

500 was the edge of grip rolling around in 2nd at like 30 and punching it on the 750s. 1st was a smokefest if you were not pointed absolutely straight. seemed like plenty at the time. enough that I would've gotten a lot faster just re-learning to drive.

I had it turned up to around 550 previously (but was not logging, no plots) for a bit and it was impossible to keep it off the rev limit in 1st. I needed a lot more practice. In 2nd hitting bumps in road could case the tires to spin at that power level. I don't think you need 600 to have any fun.

You may want to invest in some better tires.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

You may want to invest in some better tires.

I run nitto neogens because it does get cold here and we get slick conditions. I used to daily drive year round until we picked up the car for my wife and I got the spare truck to drive in the salt.

I ran NT555s before and literally almost wrecked it about once a day if it were icy, snowy, or sometimes even just cold enough. I'd rather make it home in one piece than have a little more dry summer grip.

[IPD]

or wider ones. 285's seem to hold traction fairly well.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

or wider ones. 285's seem to hold traction fairly well.

? I thought you ran 9bs or something like that?

[anyonebutme]

I run nitto neogens because it does get cold here and we get slick conditions. I used to daily drive year round until we picked up the car for my wife and I got the spare truck to drive in the salt.

I ran NT555s before and literally almost wrecked it about once a day if it were icy, snowy, or sometimes even just cold enough. I'd rather make it home in one piece than have a little more dry summer grip.

Both are crap tires IMO. If I switch back to treaded tires today, I'd buy Conti DW or ZII's. Conti DWS in a pinch but I'd rather switch rims to winter tires in the snow than anything else. Problem with snow grip is everything you want in a dry or wet grip tire is opposite on snow (or gravel). for dry you want wide and large tread blocks, for wet you want wide and "ramped" tread blocks with lots of voids, for snow you want as narrow as possible and sipping, narrow voids. The narrow voids is why offroad tires do so horrible in snow, they are designed for mud and dirt which doesn't act like snow at all. This means you physically can't make a good all-season, since everything is polar opposite. Bonus tip: dirt circle track tires make epic wet autoX tires.

[kywhitelightning]

You need summer and winter tires. Tires spinning is no fun and a ginormous waste of money power wise and tire wise. Not to mention the abuse you are putting the diffs through as I'm sure you're not blowing all 4 off rolling into 1st. When mine spins it still pulls just not as hard as the rears let go and the fronts are still holding on. Nothing wrong with running the car in the winter, just don't handicap yourself in the summer when you can use it.

I run 225's and they don't start losing grip until 550+ and that's in 1st gear. The second gear scenario you posted earlier happens on mine when I have it cranked up over 600. You rode in the car at NG10, did you feel it slip when you about lost your sunglasses? You need tires because you are only going to make the traction issues you have now worse with more displacement.

Jeff

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

It spins the rears. i could blow the trans apart like an egg and not care that much compared to the engine. not that worried about it at the moment, lol.

[IPD]

? I thought you ran 9bs or something like that?

as tested in very wet conditions. both braking and power-brake acceleration--no slipping. never got that from my stock-width tires.

[HellBringer]

AWD traction issues at 500WHP...!? You must either have comically shitty, undersized tires, or a serious alignment issue or some combination thereof.. Seriously.. I can hook mid 600WHP on a RWD car on 19" street tires. There is absolutely NO excuse for 'traction problems' on an AWD car unless you're making serious horsepower.

[JasonY]

Todds DR750 car would literally smoke all 4 tires through first gear(could actually see the smoke from in the car..lol) and end up in the other lane if you werent careful. Yeah not the best tires...lol And if you spun through 1st it would keep em spinning through some of 2nd gear.

If you just rolled into it and floored it in 1st into 2nd it would hook w/o drama, but launching it was very delicate.

Jason

[Alex3000gt]

The coefficient of kinetic friction is less than the coefficient of static friction.

[kywhitelightning]

The coefficient of kinetic friction is less than the coefficient of static friction.

Translation, you need better rubber.

Jeff

[JasonY]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/JasonVR4/photobucket-25788-1349496630559.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/JasonVR4/media/photobucket-25788-1349496630559.jpg.html)

The rears are on the left. They were essentially brand new, that was done in 2 nights over one weekend car show. 25-26psi on the 750's stock longblock.

Jason

[Alex3000gt]

The coefficient of kinetic friction is less than the coefficient of static friction.


Translation, you need better rubber.

Jeff

That, and - once spinning you will continue to spin!

[R/T93]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/JasonVR4/photobucket-25788-1349496630559.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/JasonVR4/media/photobucket-25788-1349496630559.jpg.html)

The rears are on the left. They were essentially brand new, that was done in 2 nights over one weekend car show. 25-26psi on the 750's stock longblock.

Jason

That's just the car hinting that it wants slicks....

From the phone.

[HellBringer]

There's an easy solution to that problem. Stiffer rear suspension and less camber in the rear would've mitigated a lot of that wear, and increased traction. You need to eliminate the squat and resultant severe negative camber, and it will stick a lot better. Just because you have AWD doesn't mean you can ignore the basic fundamentals of suspension and alignment setup for traction. You can get away with that at the power level 98% of the cars have made since the beginning of time, but once you step into big boy power (550-600WHP+) then it can no longer be ignored. AWD without traction is not fun, and not safe; at least without the a significant rear bias, which these cars don't have.


My $.02 :beer2:

[J. Fast]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/JasonVR4/photobucket-25788-1349496630559.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/JasonVR4/media/photobucket-25788-1349496630559.jpg.html)

The rears are on the left. They were essentially brand new, that was done in 2 nights over one weekend car show. 25-26psi on the 750's stock longblock.

Jason


There's an easy solution to that problem. Stiffer rear suspension and less camber in the rear would've mitigated a lot of that wear, and increased traction. You need to eliminate the squat and resultant severe negative camber, and it will stick a lot better. Just because you have AWD doesn't mean you can ignore the basic fundamentals of suspension and alignment setup for traction. You can get away with that at the power level 98% of the cars have made since the beginning of time, but once you step into big boy power (550-600WHP+) then it can no longer be ignored. AWD without traction is not fun, and not safe; at least without the a significant rear bias, which these cars don't have.


My $.02 :beer2:

Good observation.

Alignment and suspension work would really help. Adding to that, more than anything there appears to be a big gap in tire compliance. From a glance the tire appears to be 9" wide. The tread gap in the radial design water channels appears to add up to about 1". The inside shouldering is stealing about 1.25" of outside field tread in camber transition. I'm guessing the effective grip footprint of the tire is only around 6.75". No surprise at all doing burnouts with 7" of tire contact tires and 500hp. Todd is only using 75% of the tires potential footprint.

[JasonY]

The car now has Megan coil overs on it. Rides like shit now compared to stock struts and Tein springs. But we still havnt gotten this POS working right despite putting every single correct part on the car, so no real results yet with the new suspension as far as hooking up. Also running much better tires now and wider section width.

Just an observation with normal tires and 500+whp...spin fest, was a lot of fun though..lol On the streets even considerably faster rwd cars were still easy pickins.

Jason

[TurboSinceBirth]

I hooked up just fine with crappy 400 treadwear 245 tires on 600AWHP due to a good coilover setup. These cars squat way too much when they accelerate changing the suspension geometry for the worse. Dialing in your rear camber will go a long ways.

[familyMAN]

Zero toe, 1.5* camber up front and .5* in rear. Nitto 555. Stock size. My rears have almost zero tread left after a few hundred miles with the 14bs:).....but I basically use the throttle as an on/off switch with the preference towards on :D Big smokey u turns were a regular occurrence during tuning sessions.....was just checking to make sure the vcu was working....