just went blow thru, having issues

[futurevr4man]

hey guys. i just got my blow thru setup installed and im having some issues. i have never tuned a car before... at all... and finding info on the older style maf-t is next to impossible. so if you all can pitch in and help i would appreciate it.

what i have it set at:
- aux on 8
- base on 2
- everything else is 0'd out.
- the flip switches are down up down down

i have 550cc injectors, 19t's. im just trying to get it running OK for now then i will install the safcII and see what shes got.

my issues:
- check engine light. says mass air sensor. i figured it would be that, but how do i get it off? i have everything plugged up correctly including the rpm wire.
- its running in the 10's on air/fuel ratios. and when i give it any gas it tries to kill itself because i assume its just spraying a crap load of gas in there. i dont want to get cylinder wash....

where do i begin? im not gonna start twisting knobs hoping for results so anything you all can give would really help a lot.

thanks
-nate-

ps i searched a ton of threads but most are very old and i would like newer thoughts because the platform has come a long ways since even 05'. i found the maf-t pro thread but im not using the pro. mine is the 2.01 version older style maf-t

[B-Man]

Check your signal wire. Sounds like it's disconnected and running limp in pulse width on the injectors, which is a ton of fuel for 550s.

[futurevr4man]

when you say signal wire you mean the tach signal wire? its pretty secure, and wired into the ptu tach signal...

[futurevr4man]

after tracing some wires and looking at different wiring diagrams for the cars wiring harness and the wiring on the maft i have come to the conclusion my ecu is not getting a signal from the maft.

my question:
what does the red/white wire do on the engine harness? as well as the green/yellow? from what i can tell the red/white should be an ecu signal for pin 19 and the green/yellow is barometric pressure. can anyone confirm or deny?

[B-Man]

Signal from the maf is what I meant.

This might help you: http://www.stealth316.com/2-ecu-terminals.htm It doesn't tell you what color wires they are, but you can determine them by the which pin it is.

Karman Airflow signal wires:
1G is pin 70 blue/yellow.
2G is pin 90 blue/yellow.

Double check those, but that's what I found with a quick search.

[futurevr4man]

well thank you for the links. let me try and explain the situation... i am almost thinking i have the wrong maft...

firstly, im not sure if i have the newer version (2.xx) or the older version (1.3) because my lid says one thing but my chip says another...
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z130/yjman93/maft001.jpg

secondly, im not sure what to do with my plug. there are 10 wires coming out the maft... 3 go to the maf, one goes to the rpm signal (i did it on my ptu), one is for alternative fuel (aka nitrous), and the other 5 go to the plug.

this would be fine, except the stock harness is looking for 7 wires... not 5. here is a picture to help explain:
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z130/yjman93/maft006.jpg


my ecu is not seeing the maft AT ALL. i have a check engine light on saying no mass air sensor, and un plugging it made it run exactly the same. no difference at all. my afr's are in the low 10's... so stupid rich. the car can idle fine but spits and sputters something terrible if i give it gas. i feel like i have the wrong maft...

so i either:
1. have the wrong maft
2. need 2 extra wires to be run from somewhere
3. am SOL

i know this is a plug and play system... or its supposed to be. why cant i get this right? so frustrating...

[B-Man]

You can upgrade the chip buy buying one from full throttle. Previous owner probably just upgraded the chip. If that plug is on it, it should work, 2G DSM or 3S.

More documents: http://www.fullthrottletech.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72&d=1103666303

Wires to Vehicle:
Pink - +12
Green – Translator frequency signal
Black – Ground (0 volts)
Brown – ATS (Air temperature signal, fixed at 80 degrees)
Gray – BARO (Barometric pressure signal, fixed at 3.9 volts)
White – RPM signal, connected to CAS sensor.

Also, check if your light is blinking:
No LED blink at key on: check power feed to Translator, check connections, check fuse.

RED LED is blinking: The MAF Translator has internal trouble codes that are blinked out using the RED LED. The codes are as follows.

1 blink - in RPM mode, No RPM signal
2 blinks – no MAF signal
3 blinks – Internal Flash memory problem.
4 blinks – dial or switch problem
5 blinks – internal program problem
6 blinks – problem with saved settings.
7 blinks – unit detected a reset while the engine was running.
8 blinks – internal Flash memory reset.

EDIT: I just noticed in that picture that you have no Pink wire. Does the LED come on when the car is on?

[futurevr4man]

well i just went out there and turned the car on. both LED's flashed on then went off and that was it. i didnt start it because it will just do the same thing its been doing.

it doesnt make sense that i have 7 wires from the car, in other words 7 wires that need an input. and only 5 wires supplied from the maft to give them their input. what are those two extra wires supposed to get? nothing? the two wires (as you can see in the pic) that are getting nothing are the green/yellow on the right side of the pic and the red/white on the left side of the pic.

the only pink wire i can see is the middle wire coming from the maft (in the bottom middle of the pic). is that not the wire you are thinking of?


im missing something because this is not that difficult of a concept. i am much more knowledgeable than this thread is making me look. i just dont understand how i can have 7 wires asking for signal and only 5 wires giving a signal. on top of that, if mine really is correct, then why am i throwing an engine light code? it just doesnt add up...

[B-Man]

Picture makes it look white.

You SHOULD have 6 wires feeding 7. IIRC the MAS pigtail has two grounds. I'm looking to double check right now.

[B-Man]

This may not help, but pins 3 and 4 are both power wires. 4 is 12V and 3 is 4.8-5.2V. You don't really need two power sources for the Maf-t that's probably why one wire is 'missing'

1 - 5V
2 - Baro
3 - 5V
4 - 12V
5 - GND
6 - IAT
7 - MAS
8 - Not used

Did this work for the previous owner?

[futurevr4man]

i still only have 5 feeding seven (or i guess really 6 since two are power). the two that arent getting anything to them are the "1 - 5v" and the "7 - MAS"

so no power from the 5v and im throwing the code because my ecu isnt seeing any MAS signal. i already knew this, which is why i think its the wrong maft. it should be plug and play, i shouldnt have to run an alternate jumper wire to anything, but it looks like thats my option... or get another maft.

why would i only have 5 feeding wires if im supposed to have 6? finding pics of other maft setups (on the older "standard" version) is nearly impossible. everyone is using pro :( i bought this back when i didnt know so much about vr4's... now im regretting it.

[B-Man]

I'm not sure why you think you need 6. You need 12V, gnd, IAT, Baro, and MAS. That's 5. Some reason they're just in the wrong order on the pigtail. How that happened is beyond me. All the Maf-t's for 2g DSMs and 3Ss are the same.

[futurevr4man]

wierd. ill try re-pinning and see what happens. thanks for your help though. hopefully its that easy then i just start and go.

thanks again
-nate-

[B-Man]

I would start the car and see what the maf-t diag light does.

[futurevr4man]

well i know, im not literally going to start and go, i just mean hopefully it works and quits giving me trouble. i did some comparisons to my pictures and two of your posts. it looks like all im gonna have to do is move my green "mas" wire over to the 7th pin. the guy i bought it from probably screwed with it and didnt say anything to me. thats the main downfall of buying stuff like this from other people.

[bboyalan]

what i have it set at:
- aux on 8
- base on 2
- everything else is 0'd out.
- the flip switches are down up down down
Which GM MAF do you have installed? That combination on the dip switches is for an LS6 IIRC.

I have posted this a few times, but here is myself quoted from the other board:
http://www.3sgto.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=1180&d=1286350416

[B-Man]

Are you sure it's pin 3 for the MAS signal? The way I'm understanding the manual, that's a power feed. I'm gonna assume yours is correct since you've obviously gotten it to work.

[SpdDmnVR4]

I am the op... Im on my friends i pod touch

My flip switches are actually up up down down. When I initially posted they were wrong but after I fixed it it didn't help at all which is when I realized I had an issue. I have a 3.75" gm maf I was told it's from a z06. I will try and fix the pins this afternoon when I'm done with class and report back

And again are you sure it's pin 3 that is the mas signal? Because that's how mine is hooked up currently (look at my picture) and not only is my engine/ecu not seeing the maft but it's not working... At all.

[kywhitelightning]

Have you ever thought that you may have a faulty MAS? Or even worse, a MAS that the Translator is not calibrated for?

Jeff

[SpdDmnVR4]

This is not the op anymore, but I'm pretty sure we are going to exhaust all options before we jump to conclusions and say Nate has a faulty/bad mas or worse, a faulty maf-t. I am fairly certain that it is wired incorrectly as it sits now. Since it does appear that the plug has been tampered with

[futurevr4man]

well i switched the green (translator freq signal) wire to pin 7 as per B-man's posts. still a no go.

something must not be working correctly... that really sucks

[futurevr4man]

well i switched the wire BACK to where it originally was as bboyalan told me to do. still didnt work.

so my friends and i scratched our heads and decided to take it apart and inspect. when we put it back together it worked. so i dont know? my car is still running funky... my idle is real lean but as soon as i hit the gas it richens up something terrible.

all of my fuel trims are at 100% and arent moving. i dont know what the deal with that is because its not correct. my 02 trim is also sitting at 100%

my wideband is off i think because i have no downpipe. i am not sure if that affects it or not... i think it may be time for a new thread...

[bboyalan]

It takes much time and driving for them to change even the slightest. I would check your o2's as I have seen this problem time and time again. Also, you can try turning the "idle" knob CW in single increments until it becomes smoother.

[SpdDmnVR4]

I was over there today with him. It is seriously frustrating how rich it was running. Plus we were revving it in the driveway and Coolant temps go into the 220's and the fans never kicked on, so I think we need to fix that also. Car ran great on stock fuel and now its horrible and suddenly lots of problems arise.

Im sure we will figure it out, but the ECU has never moved from 100% on the L/M/H and the 02 feedback is still 100%. Been that way since the car first started. I thought that meant the car was in open loop all the time?

[SpdDmnVR4]

blow through = more power, better flow, faster spool and "cool" atmosphere BOVs can be added. There are a few reasons to go blow thru and I haven't heard that many ppl complain about the tune changing in different weather. If you get a good tuner with a conservative tune, It won't matter what the weather is like.

Your saying the equivalent of why not just leave Vr4's stock, they are already pretty quick anyway..

[B-Man]

Do you guys have a logger so you can check the reading on the airflow sensor?

Documentation from full throttle tech suggest Aux:9 Base:6

At Aux:8 Base:2, you have it set for the stock 360cc injectors.

[bboyalan]

Why go blow through? To me it's a step backwards, just like going speed density is. The usual complaint is that the state of tune changes with the weather.

Steve
If you have nothing positive to contribute to the OP's situation, then why post at all? Have you ever tuned a car or been in one running a translator regardless of generation/version? I have tuned two VR-4's with them, and they are driving flawlessly with amazing response. My own car never drifted off into space, so that "usual complaint" crap is not applicable to everyone.

Jeff is a good example of a car tuned properly with one [GenII], and he put down respectable numbers.

Can you guys post up a wrapsheet for us to look at? as B-Man was suggesting. Additional details on the car's condition/mods/issues would help too.

[SpdDmnVR4]

Do you guys have a logger so you can check the reading on the airflow sensor?

Documentation from full throttle tech suggest Aux:9 Base:6

At Aux:8 Base:2, you have it set for the stock 360cc injectors.

Yes, We have a Logger and yes the MAS is working. We get a signal and everything appears to working correctly except for the Fuel/o2 trims. Not sure what the deal with the trims is, but they haven't changed from 100% ever. When we finally got the car drivable yesterday, we had everything set up correctly as far as I know. Dip switches were on, on, off, off. Aux=9 Base=6 and Idle/mid/high were zeroed out.
With those settings the car still was rich (unable to rev above 5k rpm) and we didn't get a chance to lean it out any before we noticed coolant temps in the 220's range and decided to let her cool down.


If you have nothing positive to contribute to the OP's situation, then why post at all? Have you ever tuned a car or been in one running a translator regardless of generation/version? I have tuned two VR-4's with them, and they are driving flawlessly with amazing response. My own car never drifted off into space, so that "usual complaint" crap is not applicable to everyone.

Jeff is a good example of a car tuned properly with one [GenII], and he put down respectable numbers.

Can you guys post up a wrapsheet for us to look at? as B-Man was suggesting. Additional details on the car's condition/mods/issues would help too.

I dont know the exact specs on the car, hopefully the OP can step in and add to or correct me if im wrong, but here is the mod list.

MODS: 94 VR4 (hybrid ECU)
3.1 3SX built bottom end
fresh heads (Stock)
TD04-L 19T's
No downpipe or exhuast(just open precats straight down)
Dual core FMIC(stock IC pipes)
Dejon Blow through setup (MAF-T with z06 MAS, Hard intake pipes)
DENSO 550cc injectors
Blitz SSBC(I think) I know its an EBC
Stock cooling system
Stock FPR
300ZX Fuel pump
AEM Wideband o2

on the shelf: SAFC2 (for when OP needs timing control and fine tuning over the MAF-T)

I think those are all the mods. Ask if you think of anything else you think might be pertinent to the situation, or wait til the OP posts again.

Could having no downpipe effect the WB02? Because we got readings all over the place when it was running the stock setup from 10.1 to 12.2 in WOT. and it wasn't linear changes, It would just jump around constantly

Edit: Also, This is just a little issue for the moment and something I just thought of, but I never heard the Radiator fans kick on when the temps were in the 220's. the A/C fan works and will kick on with the A/C controls though. Just a wierd thing we noticed

[bboyalan]

The ECU is reliant on o2 feedback for any adjustments that you will see. In this case, you are pondering the trims' unaltered state. How are the NB's behaving in closed-loop and at operating temperature? A log would really help at this point.

You can easily set up your baseline on the translator prior to adding the AFC into the mix, but some find the other way more convenient. In your case, the bottom-right three knobs and logger will become your best friends for a while lol.

[B-Man]

Check the fuses for the fans, probably something simple.

Since when did SAFC2 do timing?

[kywhitelightning]

Not sure about the 1st generation MAFT's ability to "fine tune", but I do know that they only adjust in 5% increments and IMHO 5% leaves a lot of room for error. You're not going to get a good tune without the fine tuning device installed.

Open dump precats could affect NB and WB accuracy because it's just easier for the sensors to see fresh air.

Put an exhaust system on there and get your tuning devices up to par and then go tinker with it. Otherwise, I feel you're wasting your time.

Jeff

[kywhitelightning]

Since when did SAFC2 do timing?

It doesn't.

Jeff

[SpdDmnVR4]

I know his plans were to get a good baseline with the MAF-T and then throw on the SAFC and fine tune. I just know he told me that the SAFC2 did timing. I thought only the S-ITC did that but idk.

I will check his fuses later tonight when I go out there to help him again. Hopefully he gets on here soon and sees this thread.

This is such an easy thing to do, and neither him nor I is mechanically challenged. so I dont see why we are having so many problems with this

[futurevr4man]

i didnt realize this was still being posted in so much.

my mods were listed correctly, except i have a dual solenoid boost controller.

i was told my someone it did have timing control on it... oh well, i guess thats life.

and as spddemonvr4 said, this is a simple thing, not much to it. now i will admit i only have one 02 installed, and that may be causing issues. which 02 is more important, front or rear? or do they both have to be installed for everything to run properly? and before you ask why i dont have both its a simple answer, they didnt come with the car, im out of money, and more importantly i was trying to keep my wideband hooked up somewhere so i could see whats going on. i put it on the rear bank because it runs leaner than the front. so if i get good readings on that, it should theoretically be alright on the front as well (assuming a lot, i know).

so, for those that dont like reading:
do i need both 02's? i know ideally yes, but if i only have one, front or rear?
if you say i need both, i guess i am pretty much required to buy a downpipe huh?
my maft is hooked up correctly and set for the correct injectors. i assure that.

thanks for the help fellas, keep the info coming, im still learning a lot.

[bboyalan]

You should definitely get a downpipe to install both NB's and properly place the WB before you burn out the sensor.

I would [and do] listen to [my many] dataloggers before a wideband.

[kywhitelightning]

ii was told my someone it did have timing control on it... oh well, i guess thats life.

and as spddemonvr4 said, this is a simple thing, not much to it. now i will admit i only have one 02 installed, and that may be causing issues. which 02 is more important, front or rear? or do they both have to be installed for everything to run properly? and before you ask why i dont have both its a simple answer, they didnt come with the car, im out of money, and more importantly i was trying to keep my wideband hooked up somewhere so i could see whats going on. i put it on the rear bank because it runs leaner than the front. so if i get good readings on that, it should theoretically be alright on the front as well (assuming a lot, i know).

so, for those that dont like reading:
do i need both 02's? i know ideally yes, but if i only have one, front or rear?
if you say i need both, i guess i am pretty much required to buy a downpipe huh?
my maft is hooked up correctly and set for the correct injectors. i assure that.

thanks for the help fellas, keep the info coming, im still learning a lot.

SAFC=Super Air Flow Converter SITC=Super Ignition Timing Converter Both made by Apexi.

Both primary NB O2's need to be installed. That's why you are in open loop fuel control(this is probably why your AFR's are all over the place, no closed loop correction). The downpipe should be a no brainer, it was explained earlier why. The secondary O2's are the ones that are optional because they only deal with cat efficiency.

The WB sensor can only tolerate so much heat. Placing it right next to the turbo might be bad for it. My manifold can get up to 1600*F when deep in boost and that's with spraying W/M. It gets near 1400 just cruising. I believe the Bosch sensor that Innovate uses isn't supposed to go over 900*F. The sensor should be in the DP for multiple reasons. There is a lot less heat at that point in the exhaust as that's one of a full exhaust system's jobs(heat dissipation). The other is that since you are only using one WB you get both banks exhaust stream.

Jeff

[futurevr4man]

yeah. i didnt think about the wideband being burned up, but like i said earlier i figured if i put it on the bank that ran leanest then i would be safe as long as it read well.

ill get a downpipe and o2 sensor and see what happens. dang money, cant you just grow in my pocket for once?