Unsprung clutch discs

[Echo419]

how many of you run them and for those that have, have you ever broken the rivets on the spool? if so was it difficult?

reason I ask is so far I've broken 2 that were supposedly good for alot more power than I'm making. I'm thinking my 3rd clutch(different company) is going to do the same thing. it's starting to rattle very loudly like the TOB but sometimes I can feel it in the clutch pedal if I press it just right. it also goes away when I push in the pedal and sometimes if I pump it the rattle will stop. I'm thinking it is b/c the spool has worked itself backwords to a stuck position. pics of carnage below.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/XEcho419/clutch.jpg

[Austin@STM]

1st thing to check is that all the bolts are on the tranny to the engine, and they are all tight. We had a customer that went through 4 or 5 clutches in less than a year, and couldnt figure out why. We asked him how many bolts were holding the tranny to the engine, and and he one was one short. The back bottom bolt wqas missing everytime, so when he was pushing in the clutch, he was actually pushing the tranny away from the engine causing stress on the input shaft/clutch disk causing it to break.

-Austin@STM

[Echo419]

1st thing to check is that all the bolts are on the tranny to the engine, and they are all tight. We had a customer that went through 4 or 5 clutches in less than a year, and couldnt figure out why. We asked him how many bolts were holding the tranny to the engine, and and he one was one short. The back bottom bolt wqas missing everytime, so when he was pushing in the clutch, he was actually pushing the tranny away from the engine causing stress on the input shaft/clutch disk causing it to break.

-Austin@STM

they are all there and torqued to spec.

[Austin@STM]

What type of clutch is it? It could just e a poorly designed clutch, other people may be having the same issue.

Also when you do pull the tranny out, check your input shaft for abnormal wear or twisting.

[Echo419]

What type of clutch is it? It could just e a poorly designed clutch, other people may be having the same issue.

Also when you do pull the tranny out, check your input shaft for abnormal wear or twisting.

they were from Competition Clutch. I went with them b/c they are local and all I needed was a disc. I got my current clutch from another local place called Truco. I went with them b/c my friend has one in his Tacoma XRunner that he beats the hell out of and it holds for him. on the last dics I didn't even get on it hard but a couple of times and I barley hit 14lbs of boost.
it still rattles on my new one. granted it could be the TOB(new) or my clutch fork but I can feel it in the pedal.

my input shaft appears to be in good condition and the trans itself on a whole looks pratically new.

[green-lantern]

I'm running spec stage 4+. No problems yet but I haven't got very many miles on it.

[Echo419]

I'm running spec stage 4+. No problems yet but I haven't got very many miles on it.

I had a USED RPS sprung 6 puck for about 2 years before the springs started breaking. then I got my 1st new clutch and it lasted about 3 months before the above pic. the 2nd lasted all of 3 weeks. keep in mind I had barley gotten them to the "break in miles" so I hadn't driven hard or anything. mostly highway miles.

btw: if it matters I have an RPS flywheel and pressure plate.

[green-lantern]

I had a USED RPS sprung 6 puck for about 2 years before the springs started breaking. then I got my 1st new clutch and it lasted about 3 months before the above pic. the 2nd lasted all of 3 weeks. keep in mind I had barley gotten them to the "break in miles" so I hadn't driven hard or anything. mostly highway miles.

btw: if it matters I have an RPS flywheel and pressure plate.

You are just replacing the disk right? You would think the pressure plate or TOB is defective or something.

[GTwizard]

Your disc looks really thin. I run a spec and the plate it self is about .125 thick. yours looks thin and could have allowed rivets to fitige. I have also seen post were the specs have been doing the same thing. I believe this is do to the clutch builder trying to save money on the rivets or the purchasing departments not knowing better and getting rivets that have no certs. Crap like that happens all the time in manufacturing. May be the same with the dics plate as well. Temper may not be were it needs to be as well. If I ever had a clutch do that. I would send it back. If you buy a product that does not hold up to advertized stresses, it becomes returnable even under survere race condition. As that is why you bought the product in the first place. In your case I am looking at product failure in the picture you posted.
We also have a design flaw in our set up. I don't think the clutch manufacturers compensate for it. And this is their out. This flaw is the fact that the input shaft of our trans does Not protrude in to the rear of the crank. This allows for shaft flex as there is no support for the front of said shaft. Any slight waring of the imput shaft support bearing and your clutch will for sure take a side load beating that was never factured in to the desgn. They can't. Now all that being said, I would take a guess and say your trans is on the way out. Input shaft is having an issue maintaining alignment under load. Just my $.02

[Echo419]

how can I make sure it's not the trans without replacing it and hoping for the best?
edit: the holes for the rivets appear to be ovaling out in the direction of it's rotation. if the trans was out of wack wouldn't it be more circular or at least up and down?

You are just replacing the disk right? You would think the pressure plate or TOB is defective or something.
yeah, just the disk. I was just putting those out there incase anyone was curious

[green-lantern]

how can I make sure it's not the trans without replacing it and hoping for the best?
edit: the holes for the rivets appear to be ovaling out in the direction of it's rotation. if the trans was out of wack wouldn't it be more circular or at least up and down?

yeah, just the disk. I was just putting those out there incase anyone was curious

I hate pulling the trans so I would replace everything this time if I were you. What about the flywheel, was it changed recently? Like right before this problem.

[Echo419]

I hate pulling the trans so I would replace everything this time if I were you. What about the flywheel, was it changed recently? Like right before this problem.

I changed the friction plates.

[Echo419]

the old RPS dick that went bad after appox2 years:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/XEcho419/oldclutch.jpg
the only pic I have of the trans:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/XEcho419/trans.jpg

[green-lantern]

I see your problem. You are missing the endcase.

[green-lantern]

So you are still using a used RPS pressure plate that had clutch plate bust a spring nut all over its face?

[Echo419]

So you are still using a used RPS pressure plate that had clutch plate bust a spring nut all over its face?

yeah, it appears undamaged.

[green-lantern]

yeah, it appears undamaged.

Well Bobby, I would have trashed it after it was 2+ years old in fear of the face being worn/uneven but if those springs bent the fingers on the pressure plate then it could be claming down uneven on the clutch.

[Echo419]

Well Bobby, I would have trashed it after it was 2+ years old in fear of the face being worn/uneven but if those springs bent the fingers on the pressure plate then it could be claming down uneven on the clutch.

they busted out on the flywheel side. it didn't look like it went anywhere else.

[green-lantern]

they busted out on the flywheel side. it didn't look like it went anywhere else.

It might be fine but if they turned sideways the fingers might have forced them into the FL side.

My guess,

1st crappy springs came out because they suck and bent the pressure plate fingers just a little.
2nd new clutch plate wasn’t being held with equal pressure all around causing it to work back and forth ever so slightly and wearing the rivets out.
3rd The next clutch plate did the same thing. :p

I wouldn't use that thing again anyway.

Can you wiggle the input shaft at all?

[Echo419]

Can you wiggle the input shaft at all?
nope.

[green-lantern]

Another thought is, could this have bent your flywheel?

[KeithMac]

Bent flywheel or pressure plate would cause a judder on clutch take up, when setting off etc.

[Echo419]

Bent flywheel or pressure plate would cause a judder on clutch take up, when setting off etc.

I'm pretty sure the flywheel isn't bent since the replacement plates fit just fine. the PP doesn't show any signs of damage or have any heat spots that might suggest it's bent. it could be but it just dosen't look like it.

[stealthee]

Sounds like your clutches like you as much as mine like me. :rolleyes:

I'm on disk 4 in the last 2 years.

[Ondonti]

I would try a clutchnet.

Rivits came out of my daily driver so I bought this one for cheap
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Transmission/Clutch/IMG_6326.jpg?t=1287413401
Rivits always seem really good in these.

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Transmission/Clutch/IMG_6321.jpg?t=1287413488
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Transmission/Clutch/IMG_6322.jpg?t=1287413487

And I have a 3 puck in my Duster that has broken...5-6 axles, and still looks new.

[Echo419]

yeah, my friend took it in for some testing at Delta and long story short they believe that the holes for the rivets were to big allowing them to move side to side during rotation causing them to finally break loose.

thanks but I've got a sprung disc on the way.

[donniekak]

How are you installing the transmissions? If the transmission is allowed to hang at any time it bends the disk, and can lead to failures like this. Also, check for any runout in the input shaft when you have the trans off. A worn input shaft bearing can do this also. Lastly, check for any play between the splines of a new disk, and your input shaft. Anything other than a perfect fit, will cause problems.

[Ondonti]

Its 100% the holes being too big for the rivits. Don't buy from that company. Nobody should be worrying about him having cause this problem. He didn't. Unless driving your car is against the rules.

[thor'svr4]

i never knew that could even happen. glad you figured out the problem though.

[Echo419]

How are you installing the transmissions? If the transmission is allowed to hang at any time it bends the disk, and can lead to failures like this. Also, check for any runout in the input shaft when you have the trans off. A worn input shaft bearing can do this also. Lastly, check for any play between the splines of a new disk, and your input shaft. Anything other than a perfect fit, will cause problems.
we are very careful to not allow the trans to hang. once the thing slides in the guy on top puts in a couple of bolts while I hold it then brings the jack in to hold it up just to be safe.

Its 100% the holes being too big for the rivits. Don't buy from that company. Nobody should be worrying about him having cause this problem. He didn't. Unless driving your car is against the rules.
word.

i never knew that could even happen. glad you figured out the problem though.
http://www.martingordon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/the_more_you_know.jpg

[green-lantern]

Its 100% the holes being too big for the rivits. Don't buy from that company. Nobody should be worrying about him having cause this problem. He didn't. Unless driving your car is against the rules.

Which company? He’s had 2 to 3 different ones. Having two or three disks from different manufactures failing the same way makes me think it’s probably something else causing the problem.

[Echo419]

Which company? He’s had 2 to 3 different ones. Having two or three disks from different manufactures failing the same way makes me think it’s probably something else causing the problem.

2 companies in relatitive close proxmity to each other. I suspect they got their discs from the same place. anyway, from now on it's sepnd the big $$$ and go with proven name brand shit

[green-lantern]

2 companies in relatitive close proxmity to each other. I suspect they got their discs from the same place. anyway, from now on it's sepnd the big $$$ and go with proven name brand shit

Ah I see, that is possible since manufactures build for many companies. I’d still be tempted to replace the whole thing, even flywheel. Good luck Bobbah

[Echo419]

Ah I see, that is possible since manufactures build for many companies. I’d still be tempted to replace the whole thing, even flywheel. Good luck Bobbah

the flywheel has new plates so it's pratically new and I'm getting a new preasure plate so.....

[KeithMac]

If you know anyone good at welding it would be worth getting a bead welded between the hub and friction plate if they could do it without distorting the metal?.

[green-lantern]

If you know anyone good at welding it would be worth getting a bead welded between the hub and friction plate if they could do it without distorting the metal?.

I'm pretty sure it would warp. I would think it would change the temper of the metal also.


Bobby, I know somebody mentioned it already in this thread but make sure to use a jack or hoist (or both) to put the trans in so you don’t risk bending the disk. Knowing you, you might be putting the trans in by hand you big sexy beast. http://forums.usms.org/images/smilies/smiley-weighlifter.gif

[Echo419]

I am :p

[ulrich]

It's interesting to see that pretty much all the solid hubs throughout every manufacturer seem to be identical... Wondering if the rivets might be too then.
I've had some fun with SPEC clutches that did the same thing.

[Echo419]

It's interesting to see that pretty much all the solid hubs throughout every manufacturer seem to be identical... Wondering if the rivets might be too then.
I've had some fun with SPEC clutches that did the same thing.

I had it tested and the rivets should be good for appox 600ft/tq. we suspect that the holes for the rivets were to big allowing them to slip back and forth eventually ovaling the holes like in my pic and breaking.