Suspension options that best fits my goals

[Andr3w]

My stock ECS has recently failed completely. Normally could get by with quickly changing to sport after start up, but now it immediately goes to blinking sport and tour. I have considered replacing all the components and getting lowering springs, but alot of the threads I have read say the ecs will not last as long. So I have been looking at aftermarket suspensions. It basically came down to these two after reading through some forums. There were a lot of other companies in between, but I would need a shop to set them up correctly since they require the evo adapters.

I have been talking to Muellerized about their suspension they offer for the 3s since they are less than 100 miles away. Basically said that these will be a true upgrade over stock and no compromise in any way. Of course there is the cost, but they will be setup based on what I value most. They had a form with a series of questions to get an idea of what I was looking to achieve.

The other I have been looking at is the KW V3. Also have read good reviews about the comfort for DD. But I have also been informed about a negative experience with customer service. Cost is a good amount less and if I remember right it uses the factory upper mounts so that could help reduce noise.

What are your thoughts? Is it overkill? I have never been road racing, autocrossing or drag racing but I definitely am looking forward to after the car is finished. I am also looking at taking some driving classes to further enjoy all that I have put into the car. The car also is no longer a daily driver, but will be driven on the street a lot of the time. My goal is to keep the comfort as close to stock as possible + all the benefits of a well sorted suspension. One thing I am not sure of is how often do suspensions need to be rebuilt and how much does it cost. Is it valuable to have a local suspension shop for support?


Andrew

[duke3k]

Your ECS system may not have completely failed, it could be as simple as one of the cap wiring harness connectors failed or maybe one strut.

If your set on scraping the ECS stock system for a racing/ auto x setup - thats understandable. Then this may be a good excuse to drop some coin and start over ....but just wanted to point out the failure may be something simple to fix.... and if this statement is really your goal "My goal is to keep the comfort as close to stock as possible" - that seems incompatible with upgrading to a suspension suitable for track use.

[Andr3w]

It would be cool to replace all the struts and get the ecs to work again since my active aero and exhaust still work, but I am guessing some of that comfort will be lost when adding lowering springs as well. The only thing I checked was the connections at the strut caps. Other than that I havent really looked into what has caused the failure.

Also I have always wondered. Will I still be able to retain the active component functions when I get the pro efi 128 setup?

[J. Fast]

I think Marcus raised some good points on keeping the comfort as close to stock as possible. One of the most difficult things to grasp regarding coilovers is the springs. A majority of the coilover setups on the market use non linear springs and the spring stiffness is too high. OEM struts ride great and are comfortable because the spring stiffness is really low (ie, they have really soft springs). We actually get more effective use out of shocks with softer springs. A stock strut will actually become more comfortable with a softer spring and have more effective grip with a softer spring because you're using more of the shock in compression and elongation. A soft spring rate allows for the most shock travel in compression and elongation(rebound or droop) and is actually where you get the comfort and less bumpy ride from.

A shock is designed to attenuate the spring. The spring is designed to keep the suspension from bottoming out or reaching maximum elongation. The less shock travel you have the higher the spring rate needs to be. For example, Say you have a shock designed for 5" of travel. 2" is designed for elongation and 3" is for compression. Your car weighs 3000lbs and the weight is evenly distributed on four corners so 750lbs a corner. If you lower your car 2" then you're only left with one inch of spring travel to attenuate the kinetic energy of 750lbs so the spring rate has to be high. Not only that but you now have an unbiased compression to droop ratio. Consequently the shocks are allowed to push harder than they pull if you settle on the bump stops which makes the ride feel really bumpy.

So, think about this for a minute. Think about what you want your wheel gap to be and how much room you're going to have left over for shock travel?

If you're going to pay $3000 for 5" of shock travel but plan on lowering your car 2" then why would you pay all that money to utilize 2/3 of the shock? That's all you'll be using. If you're going aftermarket, select the shock that will give you the most suspension travel based on your ride height so you can utilize a softer spring. If you want LOW or no wheel gap you will need to modify the body panels or step up to a higher grade coilover setup that offers better valving blowoffs with higher grade springs that are further from consecutive coil bind. The Muellerized Setups utilizing Hyperco or Swift springs and a helper are more than likely what you're looking for if you want stock like ride and sporty performance.

If you want it to ride like stock but little more low, go with a softer spring, Tein H-Tech. 1" drop and more shock travel. Pro's= Lower ride height (just a tad), optimal CG, balanced roll center and instant center, better steering angles, no alignment or coil bind issues, lots of grip.

Decisions Decisions.

[Andr3w]

I was not able to find any pics of cars with the H-Tech springs, but Pics of cars with S-tech look good which they say is 1.5 in front and 1.3 in the rear. Could go very slightly higher in the front though. Looks like the cost for ecs struts, s-tech lowering springs, caps, and insulators will cost around $1700. Looks like a good option and when taking all the labor away, seems to be about half the cost.

Looks like I will need to do some troubleshooting and some more research. I think I am missing something though.

[J. Fast]

I was not able to find any pics of cars with the H-Tech springs, but Pics of cars with S-tech look good which they say is 1.5 in front and 1.3 in the rear. Could go very slightly higher in the front though. Looks like the cost for ecs struts, s-tech lowering springs, caps, and insulators will cost around $1700. Looks like a good option and when taking all the labor away, seems to be about half the cost.

Looks like I will need to do some troubleshooting and some more research. I think I am missing something though. $1700 seem a little high unless you're going to pay a shop to dismount and remount. You can typically find used ECS caps for around $100, just post a wanted add in classifieds. A full OEM ECS strut, insulator, and spring isolator replacement is usually around $800. With some H-Techs you're looking at around $1000 total.

Poke around on Cherry Hill and see what the total comes out to.


http://www.partswebsite.com/cherryhilltriplex/?i=6#

[duke3k]

I was not able to find any pics of cars with the H-Tech springs, but Pics of cars with S-tech look good which they say is 1.5 in front and 1.3 in the rear

On my '98 I have retrofitted ECS & Tein H-techs. Similar question was asked a ways back as to what the lowering results are and how it compares to stock. Below is a post with pic & some ad-hoc measurements. For me and the type of driving I do all street & and windy mountain canyon roads the H-techs w/ ecs are perfect. Soft when the wifey is riding along and pretty firm when I need it.

http://www.3sgto.org/transmission-suspension-drivetrain/12159-tein-h-techs-post238869.html#post238869

Duke3k

[Andr3w]

That price was based off of just quickly looking through 3sx. The prices seem the similar on cherry hill. I really also dont want to buy used parts since they are already old.

Are there any benefits to upgrading to coilovers?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

[anyonebutme]

Are there any benefits to upgrading to coilovers?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

define "coilovers". Really, you gain the ability to adjust preload, spring, and depending on model, you get a form of droop adjustment, low speed rebound adjustment, added camber adjustment with upper plates, and if your wallet can take it, low speed bound adjustment. open wallet further and you get more knobs to play with and custom valving. note that none of that stuff with make you faster in real life.

FWIW, I race on stock ECS struts. I just set them to sport and unplug. The only issue is getting a spring on them with the rate you want and full travel. I love ECS struts, and I'd suggest troubleshooting yours.

[sergechronos]

The factory ECS system is actually quite competent (and frankly was years ahead of it's time IMO.) Unless you're going to go Muellerized, maybe Ohlins, or follow J's guide to doing your own set up, I agree with ABM that you should troubleshoot yours and figure out the issue before junking it all unless you're prepared to invest a couple thousand into a good coil over set up.

[Unlogic]

define "coilovers". Really, you gain the ability to adjust preload, spring, and depending on model, you get a form of droop adjustment, low speed rebound adjustment, added camber adjustment with upper plates, and if your wallet can take it, low speed bound adjustment. open wallet further and you get more knobs to play with and custom valving. note that none of that stuff with make you faster in real life.

FWIW, I race on stock ECS struts. I just set them to sport and unplug. The only issue is getting a spring on them with the rate you want and full travel. I love ECS struts, and I'd suggest troubleshooting yours.

I agree, the stock ECS struts are no bad at all. I've been racing with them for a while and so far they are definitely not the limiting factor for me on the track.

[J. Fast]

I like ABM's work here with Steven...

ECS Coil-over Suspension MOD (part 1 of 3) - Projects - 3000GT / Stealth / GTO Forum (http://www.3sgto.org/blogs/2fnloud/84-ecs-coil-over-suspension-mod-part-1-3.html)


Scroll thru the pics... Love it!

Mobile Photobucket (http://m202.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/2fnloud/1994%20Dodge%20Stealth/Suspension/PICT5398_zps4b6ac54e.jpg.html?o=15)

You get a lot for not a lot of money.

[Andr3w]

Wow looks like that would be something fun to do. Really giving all the options a lot of thought. Should have a decision made shortly, but it is leaning towards sending the car to Muellerized to have them do the suspension work. Really don't have much time or space for a side project and wanna have the car running after sitting for more than a year. Also read a lot of reviews from multiple forums on the Ohlins R&T and people seem to love how they feel on the street.

[anyonebutme]

if you got the money, mueller is the way to go.