Engine... Meet car. Progress!

[SUTHNR]

5927

Progress! The engine is being fitting in the car as I type! Looking forward to this one. :D

EricB


---------------------------------------------------------
EDIT 2013-12-12 -- ADDING FINAL RESULTS IN FIRST POST
---------------------------------------------------------

THE RESULTS ARE IN!!!!

The short answer:

E85 Tune: 280.3 hp / 267.8 tq

Straight 93 Pump Gas: 270.0 hp / 254.5 tq

fracking yea!! My original guesstimates at where we'd end up were 270 on 93 and 300 on E85. We didn't quite get that out of the E85, but a couple discussions with a couple different people think that if we can release the air flow in the middle where the torque curve is basically flat, and let it continued to grow and arc, that we'd see additional numbers... But for now, I'm QUITE happy with what we ended up with. :D

I'll post back once I actually DRIVE the car myself HAHAHAHA!!! yeah, i'm severely itchin to, but gotta button up a couple things for the road (hood, under panels) before taking her home.


http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/bowden-stealth-20131211-e85-vs-93-1200px.jpg (http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/cars-eric.asp)



http://youtu.be/CdatsMvn8b8

Check out the details and additional dyno graphs on the 3SX site:

Eric SUTHNR Bowden - 1993 Stealth RT *-*Mitsubishi 3000GT*/*Dodge Stealth Parts (http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/cars-eric.asp)

I overlayed the new graph over the old numbers from 2009 when I first went to E85 and high compression on the 3.0 motor.

Also overlayed it on a stock NA graph from when we did the 3SX NA Exhaust testing earlier this year - and the numbers are about where my car was when I first dyno'd it way back like 15 years ago and it had 155 at the wheels.

ALSO overlayed it on a stock VR4 graph to give an idea of what might do to a boosted car... I already know it outruns a stock TT on the road course... We'll see what's next!

EricB

[arm0red1]

Oooooooooo, anything done to this one??

[IPD]

any snails this time?

[SUTHNR]

No snails on the outside. Just giant slugs on the inside. :D
Custom 95mm flat tops creating a 13:1 bored 6G74.
Now there really is NOTHING left stock under the hood.
EricB

[TUFFTR]

Using a Flash ECU? Cams stock? And I gather some custom extractors?

Love your work man, 6G74 FTW!

[SUTHNR]

Ended up with a pretty sweet deal on a series 1 AEM so will be running that. 264/272 cams + cam gears. Same ported and ultra-decked heads as were on the 3.0 engine. Long headers of course. We're all very curious to see what becomes of it on the dyno and track. Plan to do some plenum testing on the dyno to see what combo works best as well.

[HilbillyHomeboy]

Nice! Saw the picture and immediately thought, please say that's a high c/r 74. :)

Jeremy

[Greg E]

Looks good!! Can't wait to see your results.

[SUTHNR]

So with a little customizing, the engine is finally bolted into place! Check out these truly custom 3SX motor mounts to lower the engine about 3/4 inch to give better clearance - now the headers clear the front subframe (with a little clearancing on that too) and swaybar, and the strut bar will definitely fit over the engine now.

http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/stealth-rebuild-20130924-04-1000.jpg
http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/stealth-rebuild-20130924-07-1000.jpg
http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/stealth-rebuild-20130924-11-1000.jpg
http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/stealth-rebuild-20130924-13-1000.jpg



Won't be long to get things finalized (around customer car work!) and on the rollers for tuning!!

EricB

[J-Groove]

Very nice. Looking forward to seeing your numbers.

Give Don's N/A a run for the dyno. :)

-John

[TUFFTR]

I can safely say He'll blow Don's NA numbers out of the water.

[Greg E]

Can't wait to see how this goes!

[Uniuno]

I'm curious how much the drop affected the axle clearance.

This should be a blast when it's done!

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I like the approach taken. It will get the center of gravity down as long as the cv shafts are not upset by the angles.

[GTOJOE]

Lowering the engine will effectively be pushing the shafts further towards the hub. If there is enough "slack" in the cv joint it might be OK otherwise it will be adding additional stress to the suspension bushes etc. Also did you shorten the arm on the short shaft that belts to the sub frame?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

given the amount the of travel the stock suspension can handle I really doubt its going to be a big issue.

[SUTHNR]

We talked about the halfshafts and noone around here thought it would be an issue. They are jointed at both ends and designed to flex with suspension travel. The lower CG should help a little with handling since it's a heavier motor. Plus, I will still be able to run my front strut bar that DOES help in the front end when I race. Despite the drop, the pan still looks to be protected by the surrounding cross-members, though the front-to-back ones will need to be "massaged" a little - nothing dramatic, just a little clearancing to get them on so they can do their duty :) Customer work has it on pause again, but the end is very near! I'm excited to get it back on the road. Fingers are crossed about running it on 93........

EricB

[SUTHNR]

I got my hands on a few pictures from the engine assembly. Sexy! haha!

http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/stealth-rebuild-20130904-engine-assy-01-ad-1000.jpg

http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/stealth-rebuild-20130904-engine-assy-17-ad-1000.jpg

http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/stealth-rebuild-20130904-engine-assy-25-ad-1000.jpg

EricB

[Hans@GZP]

Nice tensioner! :p

[green-lantern]

Very nice!

[Sean Johnson]

How long has that car been down Eric? Will there be room for the Horns? :D

[SUTHNR]

Brought in fuel today... Hoping to do a first start and get the coolant burped. Scheduled for tuning next week. YAY!!!

EricB

[SUTHNR]

Couldn't get the forum to load last night so....

FIRST START!!! Finally! We fired it up for the first time today. Scheduled for the dyno next wednesday for tuning. Going for a 93 tune for travel and a e85 tune for all out. Daniel started a pool for power numbers - a 93 hp number and an e85 number. We'll see!

Stealth - First Start after 6G74 3.5-liter conversion - YouTube (http://youtu.be/IEJxYbPBkHY)

I'll post engine specs once I have them all together. I don't have all the papers on the pistons with me and exactly what dimensions John built it to, but it calculated out to be almost exactly 13:1 - but that's taking into account the heads that have 42cc bowls versus the stock 52-53cc bowls... Pistons would be closer to 11:1 on normal heads without about 50thou taken off...

EricB

[TUFFTR]

Eyyyy runing the clear timing covers! Sweet! Idles like a champ too! What's it idling at on dead cold start up? Mate this thing is going to embarrass MORE then a few TT's.......What ECU is this running?

[TUFFTR]

Also that engine bay needs a de-ricing STAT! Wayy too much red spaghetti going on there

[95gto]

Good to see that the car is coming along nicely. In for dyno results.

[green-lantern]

Congrats!

I don't think that hood will close with that custom over flow tank :p it's a good idea, never thought to do that.

[SUTHNR]

Eyyyy runing the clear timing covers! Sweet! Idles like a champ too! What's it idling at on dead cold start up? Mate this thing is going to embarrass MORE then a few TT's.......What ECU is this running?

Idle was about 1200 for now. Zero tune other than initial settings - running AEM EMS Series 1.



Also that engine bay needs a de-ricing STAT! Wayy too much red spaghetti going on there

Yep, I gotta figure my strategy for underhood detailing. Ready for some change but just not sure what....



Congrats!
I don't think that hood will close with that custom over flow tank :p it's a good idea, never thought to do that.

Not to worry, we cut a hole in the hood that it slides right through! :D

Wednesday can't come soon enough! Fuel is in it and ready. Gonna go for a straight 93 tune (since it's e10 anyway) and *if need be* add like 1/2 gallon at a time of e85 to the tank to bring up the alky mixture. Then gonna drain and go for a straight e85 tune. :evil1: That'll be my play tune but I want a pump gas tune so if I wanna take a trip in the car I can go more then 100 miles from home without having to worry about finding an e85 station - even if we have to mix, I can carry a couple gallons with me. The guys here at the shop have a pool going on how much power it will put down on 93 and e85.... I'm scared to guess! hahaha!

EricB

[TUFFTR]

ERic, so, what is the aim of the car? Pure HP monster or daily driver for one of the guys there?

I'd start with de-redding everything in the engine bay. But I'm sure you'll get around to it. LOVE IT!

[SUTHNR]

The aim was/is to do some stuff that had never been done on the FWD Non-Turbo 3S platform. It's my own personal car. I fully intend to continue to drive the wheels off it. The chassis has over 160k on it - I've had it since 14k back in 96. It's not a PURE HP race car as it still has full interior PLUS in it with the added stereo. I guess the goal is to continue to have one of the best all-around NA's out there, potentially putting out the highest NA hp ever, we'll see what it does at the track of course. And the 93 tune will be so if I wanna take off to the mountains or beach, I actually CAN without having to worry about mapping out e85 stations. But i'll likely be on E85 most of the time for pure FUN :D I already ran down stock TT's on the road course on the old build, so who knows what this build will hold..... Hopefully the gearbox will hold!!! haha!

And yes, the engine bay will be getting some much needed attention once I have it back in my hands.... Just not sure what route I wanna go with the detailing... :confused:

The tank has 15 gals of straight 93 (basically e10) ready for Wednesday's tune, and 15 gals of e85 will be bought tonight.

EricB

[n2nsanity]

Nice work :)
322hp stereo?

Also, I was very happy with results of the TT plenum on the 74.
For me, it opened up the top end so much and really helped out with the traction issues.

Your build is almost exactly what I had planned before I decided to go the tt route.

In for results and seeing some new records made :)

[Uniuno]

It's Wednesday! Is this thing strapped to the dyno yet!?

[green-lantern]

:stupid:

[Toni]

Seriously! what's the hold up :)

[Alex3000gt]

OK, things just got serious - I'm now following this thread.

Post up already!

What was a stock DOHC through an MTX at the wheels? 175hp?

[SUTHNR]

Ok... Lowdown is this.... It went on the dyno. Was getting basics dialed in with low and mid rpm pulls. Running straight 93 in it so timing was pretty well yanked to keep it safe. Once got to the point of doing a complete WOT pull, the speed sensor on the dyno literally just stopped... We did get 1 pull in - then mid second pull the dyno itself said "nope".

Since it's not yet done, I'm gonna be that tease and not share anything more than "I'm quite pleased so far". That and I don't have any video to share yet anyway as the car was already off the dyno when I found out... Videos and graphs soon I PROMISE :D

As for stock, most stock DOHC 3S will put down about 150-170 depending on the dyno and general health of the engine. Years ago my first dyno was something like 155 at the wheels - that was back in like 1999 when I put it on the dyno at AAM on the way to the East Coast Gathering.

EricB

[Alex3000gt]

Time to start the guess list, copy and paste into your post when you make your guess:

Alex3000GT - 228whp

[Tensecs2fame]

244..........

[DocWalt]

Alex3000GT - 228whp
DocWalt - 237whp

[Tensecs2fame]

Alex3000GT - 228whp
DocWalt - 237whp
Tensecs2fame - 244whp

[TUFFTR]

Alex3000GT - 228whp
DocWalt - 237whp
Tensecs2fame - 244whp
TUFFTR - 178kw.........Damn imperial system......240whp!

[green-lantern]

Once got to the point of doing a complete WOT pull, the speed sensor on the dyno literally just stopped... We did get 1 pull in - then mid second pull the dyno itself said "nope".

EricB

tooo much powha!!! brokadid the dyno


Alex3000GT - 228whp
DocWalt - 237whp
Tensecs2fame - 244whp
TUFFTR - 178kw.........Damn imperial system......240whp![/QUOTE]
green-lantern 245whp

:D

[SUTHNR]

OK, so in addition to the speed sensor on the dyno going down, we found the engine had a little oil seepage. Determined it was both the front and rear galley plugs (over oil pump and rear main seal) so got those tightened down a little more and engine brought back up to temp with no leaks now. So she's ready for completion on the dyno! But shop work takes precedence and there is another car scheduled for the dyno. So completion gets pushed to mid next week (fingers crossed!!).

MAN my right foot is gettin itchy!!! That and Calvin (my 6yo) is gettin anxious for a ride in daddy's race car! haha!

EricB

[Uniuno]

Alex3000GT - 228whp
DocWalt - 237whp
Tensecs2fame - 244whp
Uniuno - 230whp/93, 248whp/e85

[green-lantern]

^ List copy fail :p ^

Alex3000GT - 228whp
DocWalt - 237whp
Tensecs2fame - 244whp
TUFFTR - 178kw.........Damn imperial system......240whp!
green-lantern 245whp
Uniuno - 230whp/93, 248whp/e85

[CoreyB]

In for numbers dammit!!!!

Alex3000GT - 228whp
DocWalt - 237whp
Tensecs2fame - 244whp
TUFFTR - 178kw.........Damn imperial system......240whp!
green-lantern 245whp
Uniuno - 230whp/93, 248whp/e85
CoreyB - 218whp

Get going!!!

[Hans@GZP]

1 Dollar Bob!!!

[green-lantern]

1 Dollar Bob!!!

exactly what I was thinking when I posted one above Tensecs2fame. :lo5l:

[Uniuno]

^ List copy fail :p ^



Sure did! Thanks for having my back! lol

[n2nsanity]

Alex3000GT - 228whp
DocWalt - 237whp
Tensecs2fame - 244whp
TUFFTR - 178kw.........Damn imperial system......240whp!
green-lantern 245whp
Uniuno - 230whp/93, 248whp/e85
n2nsanity - 251whp on 93, 263whp on e85

feeling a little optimistic
and winner should get some free dyno time :p

[TUFFTR]

Alex3000GT - 228whp
DocWalt - 237whp
Tensecs2fame - 244whp
TUFFTR - 178kw.........Damn imperial system......240whp!
green-lantern 245whp
Uniuno - 230whp/93, 248whp/e85
n2nsanity - 251whp on 93, 263whp on e85

feeling a little optimistic
and winner should get some free dyno time :p
That's really gonna stuff him if I win :P

[Alex3000gt]

Any updates? Don't leave us hanging.

Most of us started with the 'underdog' NA cars and want to see what happened here!

[Alex3000gt]

Any updates? Don't leave us hanging.

Most of us started with the 'underdog' NA cars and want to see what happened here!

Bump.

[SUTHNR]

Sorry, no change of status as yet... Got the dyno fixed and now waiting to get it scheduled back on. Likely after Thanksgiving since next week is kinda butchered with the holiday. Trust me I'M itchin to get it back on the road myself! And to a track! Based on that ONE pull before the sensor crapped out on the dyno, it's a whole different animal...

EricB

[Alex3000gt]

Sorry, no change of status as yet... Got the dyno fixed and now waiting to get it scheduled back on. Likely after Thanksgiving since next week is kinda butchered with the holiday. Trust me I'M itchin to get it back on the road myself! And to a track! Based on that ONE pull before the sensor crapped out on the dyno, it's a whole different animal...

EricB

Bump. :)

[green-lantern]

:stupid:

[n2nsanity]

You at least put a few miles on it?
You're killing me here, lol.

[SUTHNR]

Haha! I'm tied in knots with anticipation as well! Got the dyno fixed. Then got thru the Thanksgiving jacked up week last week. Then the guy doing the tuning gets the flu this week.... ACK! Figures!!

So now Steve's VR4 is on the dyno and mine is in line for next week to finish what was started!

Don't worry, I'll be sure to post as soon as I have something!

EricB

[Hans@GZP]

Wait, did you just say Steve's VR4 runs? :single_eye:

[SUTHNR]

I got a good surprise today... Got er done today!!!

Give me til tomorrow to get the graphs grabbed..........

:D

[green-lantern]

Wait, did you just say Steve's VR4 runs? :single_eye:

:eek4: this

[Alex3000gt]

I got a good surprise today... Got er done today!!!

Give me til tomorrow to get the graphs grabbed..........

:D

It is now "tomorrow"! Hump day! Dyno results day!

Alex

[mb3000]

+1 for hump day dyno!

[green-lantern]

:stupid:

I want my free dyno time :D

[Uniuno]

Don't leave us hanging!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Alex3000gt]

:eek4: this


It is now "tomorrow"! Hump day! Dyno results day!

Alex


+1 for hump day dyno!


:stupid:

I want my free dyno time :D


Don't leave us hanging!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

*Hops in car and starts driving SouthEast*

YOU SON OF A...


Update? :)

[SUTHNR]

THE RESULTS ARE IN!!!!

The short answer:

E85 Tune: 280.3 hp / 267.8 tq

Straight 93 Pump Gas: 270.0 hp / 254.5 tq

fracking yea!! My original guesstimates at where we'd end up were 270 on 93 and 300 on E85. We didn't quite get that out of the E85, but a couple discussions with a couple different people think that if we can release the air flow in the middle where the torque curve is basically flat, and let it continued to grow and arc, that we'd see additional numbers... But for now, I'm QUITE happy with what we ended up with. :D

I'll post back once I actually DRIVE the car myself HAHAHAHA!!! yeah, i'm severely itchin to, but gotta button up a couple things for the road (hood, under panels) before taking her home.


http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/bowden-stealth-20131211-e85-vs-93-1200px.jpg (http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/cars-eric.asp)



http://youtu.be/CdatsMvn8b8

Check out the details and additional dyno graphs on the 3SX site:

Eric SUTHNR Bowden - 1993 Stealth RT *-*Mitsubishi 3000GT*/*Dodge Stealth Parts (http://www.3sx.com/store/cars-3sx/cars-eric.asp)

I overlayed the new graph over the old numbers from 2009 when I first went to E85 and high compression on the 3.0 motor.

Also overlayed it on a stock NA graph from when we did the 3SX NA Exhaust testing earlier this year - and the numbers are about where my car was when I first dyno'd it way back like 15 years ago and it had 155 at the wheels.

ALSO overlayed it on a stock VR4 graph to give an idea of what might do to a boosted car... I already know it outruns a stock TT on the road course... We'll see what's next!

EricB

[CoreyB]

Great results!!!

[Uniuno]

Nice! We all underestimated the numbers. Go enjoy the thing now! Hopefully the weather still permits lol

[HilbillyHomeboy]

Great peak numbers for the 1st time on the rollers. Looks like it needs some more timing up top. Falling off a lot. Congrats, Eric! :)

Jeremy

[Boost4VR4]

Wow, that car is going to be incredibly fun to drive...

To have a Naturally Aspirated Car with that much power to the wheels... insane...

Congrats on the numbers!

[mb3000]

Awesome numbers! Congrats!

[n2nsanity]

Congratz!

Looks like n/a record has definitely been reset :)

And apparently we all underestimated, but looks like I was closest. Do I get a cookie? lol

[green-lantern]

Congrats! that's a lot of NA V6 power :bigthumb:

[TUFFTR]

Yep. I reckon 13's easily in this. The torque in that would make it pull like a priest at a wiggles concert.

[95gto]

Congrats on the numbers man

[green-lantern]

The torque in that would make it pull like a priest at a wiggles concert.

:Bwahaha:

[anyonebutme]

Makes more HP at the wheels than my turbo, lol.

[DocWalt]

Badass! Congrats on the numbers, we were all wrong, haha.

[IPD]

Makes more HP at the wheels than my turbo, lol.

same.

[GTwizard]

Maybe this fall. Too busy with RX7 build.