90's Japanese sports cars and aging

[Jeremy C]

I was just reading Jalopnik's ode to the mkIV Supra, when I got to this point:


This new Supra had flowing, elegant lines, a long hood, and its signature huge wing. I think that in terms of design, the Nissan 300ZX and Mazda RX-7 have aged better, but the Supra is unmistakably pretty.

I have to agree that the FD has aged remarkably well, but the 300ZX? I'm starting to think I must be one of the only people out there that think it looked aged the moment it was released. It really doesn't have any design qualities that stand out to me. Now the 1st gen 3S is starting to look aged with the pop ups, but comparing the four more common Japanese sports cars of the era (Supra, 300ZX, 3000GT, RX-7), I would put the Z as dead last in styling appeal and it's appeal 20 years later. The face lift on the 3S made a huge difference in longevity from my perspective, and would put it right behind the FD in aging gracefully. I always thought the Supra was OK looking, but didn't care of the long nose and slab sides. The widebody TRD 3000GT (great name choice too!) went a long way to making the Supra look better, but I don't consider that option since it was a rather rare car and demanded a stupid amount of money.

So strictly on looks alone, how would you rate the cars of the 90's today?

EDIT: I suppose we can add other cars to the mix like the NSX (will never look old to me) or the Skyline (R33 > *), but I was thinking primarily the four that we see most often talked about as competition to the 3000GT on our shores.

[CoreyB]

3000GT>Supra>FD>RX7>300ZX

[JasonY]

This is the best looking car from the 90's imo...I also agree the 300 is dead last in appeal. The 2.5 gen VR4 is probably my favorite currently of the 3/S flavors..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/JasonVR4/67655_10151768322754787_2009203849_n_zpsfedd4ee0.j pg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/JasonVR4/media/67655_10151768322754787_2009203849_n_zpsfedd4ee0.j pg.html)
Actually have a pic of the FD with a nice 98:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/JasonVR4/photobucket-2710-1376091904933_zps857e0a42.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/JasonVR4/media/photobucket-2710-1376091904933_zps857e0a42.jpg.html)

Jason

[CoreyB]

My bad, RX7 and FD are the same car lol. But 3S IMO wins for looks. The FD is kinda a stretch out Miata to me, even though I believe it precedes the Miata.

[JasonY]

3/S is too numb for me to enjoy driving anymore. Took the 98 down the street the other day since Todd complained it was making an odd noise around 55mph. Of course it was silent when i drove it. Not my car so didnt go very far. But the steering feels as boosted as my trucks is compared to my FD. The FD doesnt even have that great of steering compared to an older M3. But the car is so alive vs a 3/S which is why i enjoy it so much more since i enjoy the drive. Supra is predictably boring and well engineered. Like all toyotas of that era.(and Toyota in general). The 300zx while visually unappealing does have the appeal of being made with higher quality materials than a 3/S is. So they are aging better in that respect.

Jason

[Ange]

NSX was probably the most ahead of it's time(aside from being n/a lol)

3000gt 1st gen do look very 90's but they look good and I like the 90's so I don't mind.

Supra never looked that good to me, neither did RX-7 or 3000ZX.

[NOMIEZVR4]

Yep...gotta agree with you Jason..my brother has a FD and in terms of driving excitement and being a drivers car, nothing out of the 4 come close to the FD. The seats, cockpit, dash, all are focused on the driver. Its a wonderful car. But speaking in regards to exterior styling, stock body, my choice is VR-4/FD/Supra/300ZX.

Its hard to beat a slammed 99 VR-4 in terms of looks (except if you have an NSX...

[NOMIEZVR4]

when I get a chance ill post a pic of the FD and my vr4...He's got 2..one with Petitt flares and another with a stock body...

Only pic I have at the moment...
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll440/nomiezvr4/20130821_140709_zps8a8b2f3c.jpg (http://s314.photobucket.com/user/nomiezvr4/media/20130821_140709_zps8a8b2f3c.jpg.html)

[mehrshadvr4]

I think 300zx can look pretty modern with a little bit of work. 3000gt on the other hand need a major makeover to make that rear modern.

[NOMIEZVR4]

I think 300zx can look pretty modern with a little bit of work. 3000gt on the other hand need a major makeover to make that rear modern.

What? The rear of a 3k looks awesome...especially with a 99 wing...slammed of course..

[mehrshadvr4]

3000gt rear is the most boring looking rear of all other cars. Can't believe me. Look at the rear of other car with no spoiler. I don't know why Mitsubishi made beautiful lines all over the car and then left the rear just plain with no character.

[NOMIEZVR4]

Yeah its sort of flat but I think it still looks great though...:)

[Jeremy C]

when I get a chance ill post a pic of the FD and my vr4...He's got 2..one with Petitt flares and another with a stock body...

Only pic I have at the moment...
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll440/nomiezvr4/20130821_140709_zps8a8b2f3c.jpg (http://s314.photobucket.com/user/nomiezvr4/media/20130821_140709_zps8a8b2f3c.jpg.html)

An FD tires that wide in the back scares me. Only because I know they wouldn't be there if they weren't needed...

And as for the rear: Yeah, the 3000GT has a pretty "meh" rear on it. The Supra tails are by far my favorite. They're probably the most exciting part of the car to me. That isn't to say that a race with just about any Supra would end with me staring at the tail lights (though I would), just that I think they look good. FD's I feel the same. I did the best I could with an arc spoiler swap, 99 center garnish, and GTO tails to at least break things up some.

That's one of the few things the 3S has over any of the other cars: We have factory options to swap around parts to make the car look the way we want. None of the others changed at all, we have lots of parts to swap to make the car look the way we want without having to resort to aftermarket bits.

[Jeremy C]

3/S is too numb for me to enjoy driving anymore. Took the 98 down the street the other day since Todd complained it was making an odd noise around 55mph. Of course it was silent when i drove it. Not my car so didnt go very far. But the steering feels as boosted as my trucks is compared to my FD. The FD doesnt even have that great of steering compared to an older M3. But the car is so alive vs a 3/S which is why i enjoy it so much more since i enjoy the drive. Supra is predictably boring and well engineered. Like all toyotas of that era.(and Toyota in general). The 300zx while visually unappealing does have the appeal of being made with higher quality materials than a 3/S is. So they are aging better in that respect.

Jason

You know what's funny there: my lowly as fuck SVT Focus has far better steering feel than the 3S. I didn't think the 3S felt bad until I drove the Focus for a while then switched back, then I felt just how overly boosted it is. You really feel it once you can compare. And no, I know better to think that Focus has anything on a proper right wheel drive steering setup.

[AdamVR4]

This thread is severely short on pictures.

The RX7 has recently grown on me. I really think they're beautiful now and after driving the FR-S so much, I really want one. From a looks perspective, the RX7, Supra and 3S are all interchangeable for me. My ranking of the 3 varies with my mood and the viewing angle... The 300ZX needs body modifications to compete.

http://images.caradisiac.com/images/2/1/9/5/32195/S0-L-histoire-des-emblemes-de-l-automobile-Mazda-132017.jpg

http://l.yimg.com/lj/api/res/1.2/0RdtC8hMsLDQomRSTwb2tA--/YXBwaWQ9eWF1dG9zO2g9MjIxO3c9NDQxO2ZpPWZpbGw7cHhvZm Y9NTA7cHlvZmY9MDs-/http://l.yimg.com/dv/aic/mitsubishi_3000gt_vr4_1999

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/spopra.jpg

http://straight-six.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/1990s_Nissan_300ZX.jpg

[AdamVR4]

You know what's funny there: my lowly as fuck SVT Focus has far better steering feel than the 3S. I didn't think the 3S felt bad until I drove the Focus for a while then switched back, then I felt just how overly boosted it is. You really feel it once you can compare. And no, I know better to think that Focus has anything on a proper right wheel drive steering setup.

Is it that the steering wheel is too large or that the power steering just provides too much mechanical advantage or that you have to physically turn the wheel too much to turn the car or all of the above..? I feel like those can be remedied if you really cared.

I thought this thread was about looks :p

[stealthify]

In the looks department, I agree on all accounts. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that thinks the 300ZX has aged well (except Jalopnik, apparently?). Just looking at the photo of the Z Adam posted, it instantly takes me back to the early 90's and a design style that was the product of growing pains from the late 80's Foxbody/IROC-Z era with a Japanese twist.

Then again, when I see a clean 300ZX in-person, I'm usually pleasantly surprised. It's always been one of those cars I appreciated more in person than I did in the photos.

[Ange]

This thread is severely short on pictures.

The RX7 has recently grown on me. I really think they're beautiful now and after driving the FR-S so much, I really want one. From a looks perspective, the RX7, Supra and 3S are all interchangeable for me. My ranking of the 3 varies with my mood and the viewing angle... The 300ZX needs body modifications to compete.

http://images.caradisiac.com/images/2/1/9/5/32195/S0-L-histoire-des-emblemes-de-l-automobile-Mazda-132017.jpg

http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/mitsubishi/3000gt/1993/oem/1993_mitsubishi_3000gt_2dr-hatchback_vr-4_fq_oem_1_500.jpg

http://l.yimg.com/lj/api/res/1.2/0RdtC8hMsLDQomRSTwb2tA--/YXBwaWQ9eWF1dG9zO2g9MjIxO3c9NDQxO2ZpPWZpbGw7cHhvZm Y9NTA7cHlvZmY9MDs-/http://l.yimg.com/dv/aic/mitsubishi_3000gt_vr4_1999

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/spopra.jpg

http://straight-six.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/1990s_Nissan_300ZX.jpg
added 1g for reference

[Jeremy C]

Is it that the steering wheel is too large or that the power steering just provides too much mechanical advantage or that you have to physically turn the wheel too much to turn the car or all of the above..? I feel like those can be remedied if you really cared.

I thought this thread was about looks :p

I was only replying to a post, I can derail a little. :p

To answer, I think it would be a mixture of mechanical advantage and steering ratio as you mentioned, along with not enough feedback coming through the wheel.

And kudos on the pictures! I supposed I should have done that, but figured everyone would know what each of those cars looked like by now.

[VR-4 0wnz j00]

I think 300zx can look pretty modern with a little bit of work. 3000gt on the other hand need a major makeover to make that rear modern.

The main thing to update is the tails to 99's.

[J-Groove]

The order that AdamVR4 put his list in, is the same for me.

The FD RX7 has always been my favorite and I looked at one back when I first got my '95 3000GT. But I just cannot fit comfortably in those cars. It is sad as I love them.

But the 3000GT was my second choice, and after being in this platform for 14 years I am a bit obsessed with them.

But for best looks, the 3S will be second. The last little face lift they did at the end of the FD RX7 run was just beautiful!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1l1rsJT3A98/TdvoEKXsdtI/AAAAAAAAAIg/n6r4M2QDIIk/s1600/2012+Mazda+RX-7+Review+and+Prices+%25281%2529.jpg

[UTRacerX9]

Shrug, I think both the first gen 3000GT and 300ZX both look dated, with the 300ZX looking slightly better than the 1st gen 3000. 2nd gen 3000 is world's better.

However, I think the 1st or 2nd gen Stealth look better than either of them. 1st gen 3000gt had the "mustache" on the bumper, and those front/side grills that attempted to imitate a 1980's Ferrari. The Stealth styling was a lot cleaner.

Then again, I actually think the NSX is near the bottom of the pack in terms of styling too, it had pop up headlights too after all. But what really gets me with those cars is the interior. Looks incredibly cheesy to me, always has. The 3/S interior has always looked much better.

In terms of overall styling, I'd rank them as RX7>Stealth>Supra>3000GT<tie>NSX>and 300ZX.

[UTRacerX9]

3/S is too numb for me to enjoy driving anymore. Took the 98 down the street the other day since Todd complained it was making an odd noise around 55mph. Of course it was silent when i drove it. Not my car so didnt go very far. But the steering feels as boosted as my trucks is compared to my FD. The FD doesnt even have that great of steering compared to an older M3. But the car is so alive vs a 3/S which is why i enjoy it so much more since i enjoy the drive.
Jason

I felt the same way after getting a Boxster S years ago, for daily driving, my Stealth just felt heavy and slow and fat in comparison. A stock one would have been even worse.

[familyMAN]

Of course the 1G looks "dated" (popups). But that doesn't mean it isn't the best looking of those posted pics:D Only an NSX would beat it for looks......fact....not IMO ;)

[DocWalt]

300ZX is pretty bland, and man that nose panel pisses me off every time I see it.

[mehrshadvr4]

300zx with wheels and lowered looks pretty good too IMO. The only thing I don't like about it is the trunk.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8043/8104633002_a94517f0a6_b.jpg
http://www.cartalk.in/attachments/f20/1563d1330729625-nissan-300zx-twin-turbo-z32-slammed-4.jpg

[Jimvr4]

I remember lusting after the RX7 GSL when it first came out. Always killed me how the R&T reviews favored the 300ZX whenever compared against anything. I think their opinion on everything else (looks, interior etc) was swayed by the fact they loved RWD.

[donniekak]

I've never liked the looks of the 300zx, and the fd looks like a miata with a body kit. The stealth and 3000gt are by far the best looking out of the group, with the supra being the only other that looks good.

[Ange]

I felt the same way after getting a Boxster S years ago, for daily driving, my Stealth just felt heavy and slow and fat in comparison. A stock one would have been even worse.

Clarkson's comment about the 3000GT; "Feels like I'm driving a whale" :lo5l:

Racedrivers comments; "it's just this vague steering I don't like", "too much of this *squeeking wheels*"

Top Gear Best Handling Car by Totenritt - Car Videos on StreetFire (http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-gear-best-handling-car_part-1_204110.htm)

The 3s can quite easely drop 450lbs from stock without much comfort sacrafice though. That and added power would most likely have them give another opinion on it.

[anyonebutme]

That and added power would most likely have them give another opinion on it.

I doubt it. I think my car has shit feel. When I'm driving I don't feel like I'm having a conversation with the car, more like I'm suggesting to it what I want. I have a couple more tricks up my sleeve but it's not going to magically turn into a 911.

[Ange]

I doubt it. I think my car has shit feel. When I'm driving I don't feel like I'm having a conversation with the car, more like I'm suggesting to it what I want. I have a couple more tricks up my sleeve but it's not going to magically turn into a 911.

Alright. Well it's a Grand tourer after all, not a track intended car.

Btw. what do you think makes the difference? Between a Porche and a 3000gt at the same weight and hp?

[ReddVR4]

NSX-tie-RX7>3000gt>Supra>300zx (unless it was modified a lil)>Stealth :P

[AdamVR4]

At this point, these are in no particular order because I can't possibly rank these.

http://images.caradisiac.com/images/2/1/9/5/32195/S0-L-histoire-des-emblemes-de-l-automobile-Mazda-132017.jpg

http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/mitsubishi/3000gt/1993/oem/1993_mitsubishi_3000gt_2dr-hatchback_vr-4_fq_oem_1_500.jpg

http://l.yimg.com/lj/api/res/1.2/0RdtC8hMsLDQomRSTwb2tA--/YXBwaWQ9eWF1dG9zO2g9MjIxO3c9NDQxO2ZpPWZpbGw7cHhvZm Y9NTA7cHlvZmY9MDs-/http://l.yimg.com/dv/aic/mitsubishi_3000gt_vr4_1999

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/spopra.jpg

http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/acura/nsx/1991/oem/1991_acura_nsx_coupe_base_fq_oem_2_500.jpg

http://straight-six.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/1990s_Nissan_300ZX.jpg

[familyMAN]

Add a 1st gen euro and its checkmate 3000....;)

[CoopKill]

Honestly I would take any of them but the 300. Never liked them. No personaliy, lines, and too boxy.wedged. The rear looks decent, but meh!

[NOMIEZVR4]

Alright. Well it's a Grand tourer after all, not a track intended car.

Btw. what do you think makes the difference? Between a Porche and a 3000gt at the same weight and hp?

Nothing in any particular order, but cockpit, seating position, gearing, sound, snugness...

[TwIzTeD_3kGt]

As far as looks go, the 3/S is the only one that doesn't need a body kit to start looking really good. Just dropped with wheels and it looks awesome from all angles. Barring NSX, all the rest need a body kit or at least bumper change to get the complete look.

Stock or wheels/lowered: 3S > Supra > 300ZX > FD

Supra's boring from the front, 300zx ugly from the front, FD screams boring Miata from the front...mainly front issues.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/76/26/15516762_large.jpg

Getting into body kits, all the others take very well to kits. 3S has never once looked right with a body kit to me.

With body mods: Supra > FD > 300ZX > 3S

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4063/4641050012_642998ef24_b.jpg

[AdamVR4]

Add a 1st gen euro and its checkmate 3000....;)

About a week ago, I dreamed I had a complete Euro conversion sitting in the dining room.

I woke up SO DISAPPOINTED! I didn't even realize how much I liked it.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/469/1961/26170980001_large.jpg

It looked better in my dream :p

[lawdogg]

I like em all. I don't think dated necessarily means ugly! Ugly means ugly! And I don't think any of em are ugly ...

[anyonebutme]

Alright. Well it's a Grand tourer after all, not a track intended car.

Btw. what do you think makes the difference? Between a Porche and a 3000gt at the same weight and hp?

communication. A 911 would be a much shittier car if it wasn't for it's steering feel and precision. That and it'll accelerate and brake better simply due to weight distribution. If you ever get the chance, take a p-car for a drive, you don't even need to rail on it to understand what I'm talking about.

[familyMAN]

About a week ago, I dreamed I had a complete Euro conversion sitting in the dining room.

I woke up SO DISAPPOINTED! I didn't even realize how much I liked it.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/469/1961/26170980001_large.jpg

It looked better in my dream :p

Poor camera angle. Most people don't seem to understand how to photograph a 3S to accentuate the hourglass:)

[95gto]

Something to consider when comparing these cars aesthetically is that both the Supra and RX7 being viewed are the 2nd gen restylings of the cars, so using a first gen 3000gt isn't really an apples to apples comparison. The 1st gen 3000gt should be compared to the MKIII Supra and FC3S. A 94-95 model 3000gt is truly the fair comparison for the MKIV and FD.

As for the Z32 leg humping, it is a Z car from Nissan, that like a Corvette, gets to exploit pedigree when its performance or substance falls a little short.

[j2k4]

Poor camera angle. Most people don't seem to understand how to photograph a 3S to accentuate the hourglass:)

This ^^.

Exactly what I've been chasing with every pic I've tried to take of my car.

Look at the car = hourglass.

Take a pic = WTF?

I'd been away from cars for so long, I am only now arriving at some of the old hat conclusions you guys have been onto for years, but I still think viewing a 3S at the right angle puts it on top of the pack.

The rest of them are (to me) evocative of any number of other body-styles.

Also: I think the issue of whether or not these things are aging well is a bit off - I think the profiles that attract us are better-termed 'ageless', a la the GT40/Ford GT.

There's a reason they ripped themselves off, I think. :)

[UTRacerX9]

The 3s can quite easely drop 450lbs from stock without much comfort sacrafice though. That and added power would most likely have them give another opinion on it.

With my car, I did just that. Some of the major weight loss items... Fiberglass hood, wheels, CFDS, Stillen DP and Super Drager exhaust (that shaved off a TON of weight on the exhaust), flywheel, battery, crank pulley, charcoal canister, spare/jack/etc, smaller lightweight steering wheel, and all the little things you can get rid of. My fiberglass hood also had a big scoop in the center... Over 70mph, you could start to feel the front end feel more planted to the road because of the extra air being forced into the engine bay.

In the end... none of that stuff could change the steering dynamics of the car. The stock steering rack is sloppy and has too much play. The car has a front weight bias which doesn't lend itself to changing direction as fast as is possible, and the suspension components themselves are all made out of steel with thick rubber bushings. The chassis is heavy, but it isn't very stiff. On a Porsche, all that stuff is much tighter, made of aluminum, and there's a rear weight bias so the front end feels incredibly light and controlled. When I jack up one side of my 911, the whole side of the car raises and both wheels come off the ground easily, whether I jack from the front or rear side jack point. On the Stealth, I used to have to raise it HIGH to get the other wheel to come off the ground, because the chassis would flex so much.

I'd actually been researching how to adapt a BMW M3 steering rack to our cars. I'm convinced it's possible without too much work actually, just need to weld a few mounting points on, and mate the steering shaft to the stock shaft. I think it was the 96-98 racks that would work best, IIRC. But then I kinda caught myself and realized it didn't make much sense to do that when my Boxster S already handled like I wanted the Stealth to do... right out of the box.

[Boost4VR4]

I think the 3000GT is a nicely styled car and has a more aggressive look to it. The Supra has very simple lines and it is a very smooth looking car. The RX7 is one of my favorites of the bunch, I really appreciate an RX7 in person more than I do in pictures. The 300ZX I am torn on simply because I don't see them often and because I am not fond of the back end, it has a dated back end that looks like a Trans-Am/IrocZ and the front end doesn't look that great either. Of the bunch, the 3000GT looks the nicest because it is longer, has a wider wheelbase, and looks very nice with new wheels and coilovers.

[JasonY]

The FD's body was finalized around 88/89 fwiw. Development of the REW engine pushed it off until it being released in 92.

Jason

[familyMAN]

Where are the turbo MR2 pics???

[NOMIEZVR4]

I think the MR2's fit in with the DSM, Honda/Acura crowd more than the 'supercars'...pleasure meeting you today btw..:)

[TwIzTeD_3kGt]

With my car, I did just that. Some of the major weight loss items... Fiberglass hood, wheels, CFDS, Stillen DP and Super Drager exhaust (that shaved off a TON of weight on the exhaust), flywheel, battery, crank pulley, charcoal canister, spare/jack/etc, smaller lightweight steering wheel, and all the little things you can get rid of. My fiberglass hood also had a big scoop in the center... Over 70mph, you could start to feel the front end feel more planted to the road because of the extra air being forced into the engine bay.

In the end... none of that stuff could change the steering dynamics of the car. The stock steering rack is sloppy and has too much play. The car has a front weight bias which doesn't lend itself to changing direction as fast as is possible, and the suspension components themselves are all made out of steel with thick rubber bushings. The chassis is heavy, but it isn't very stiff. On a Porsche, all that stuff is much tighter, made of aluminum, and there's a rear weight bias so the front end feels incredibly light and controlled. When I jack up one side of my 911, the whole side of the car raises and both wheels come off the ground easily, whether I jack from the front or rear side jack point. On the Stealth, I used to have to raise it HIGH to get the other wheel to come off the ground, because the chassis would flex so much.

I'd actually been researching how to adapt a BMW M3 steering rack to our cars. I'm convinced it's possible without too much work actually, just need to weld a few mounting points on, and mate the steering shaft to the stock shaft. I think it was the 96-98 racks that would work best, IIRC. But then I kinda caught myself and realized it didn't make much sense to do that when my Boxster S already handled like I wanted the Stealth to do... right out of the box.

On that note, since putting coilovers on, mine lifts the whole side from either jack point. Almost evenly. Not sure what relevance that has, but thought I'd throw that out there.

[Ange]

With my car, I did just that. Some of the major weight loss items... Fiberglass hood, wheels, CFDS, Stillen DP and Super Drager exhaust (that shaved off a TON of weight on the exhaust), flywheel, battery, crank pulley, charcoal canister, spare/jack/etc, smaller lightweight steering wheel, and all the little things you can get rid of. My fiberglass hood also had a big scoop in the center... Over 70mph, you could start to feel the front end feel more planted to the road because of the extra air being forced into the engine bay.

In the end... none of that stuff could change the steering dynamics of the car. The stock steering rack is sloppy and has too much play. The car has a front weight bias which doesn't lend itself to changing direction as fast as is possible, and the suspension components themselves are all made out of steel with thick rubber bushings. The chassis is heavy, but it isn't very stiff. On a Porsche, all that stuff is much tighter, made of aluminum, and there's a rear weight bias so the front end feels incredibly light and controlled. When I jack up one side of my 911, the whole side of the car raises and both wheels come off the ground easily, whether I jack from the front or rear side jack point. On the Stealth, I used to have to raise it HIGH to get the other wheel to come off the ground, because the chassis would flex so much.

I'd actually been researching how to adapt a BMW M3 steering rack to our cars. I'm convinced it's possible without too much work actually, just need to weld a few mounting points on, and mate the steering shaft to the stock shaft. I think it was the 96-98 racks that would work best, IIRC. But then I kinda caught myself and realized it didn't make much sense to do that when my Boxster S already handled like I wanted the Stealth to do... right out of the box.

maybe coilovers and poly bushings would make the steering less "sloppy" for you? The car is a GT, setup for comfort, not performance/track.

About weightdistrubution not much to do. Goes with the front engine. Best thing we can do is to shave as much weight in the front as possible.

[zel-man]

pretty close resemblance...
5864
5865

[Ange]

pretty close resemblance...
5864
5865
and someone said 3s rear was ugly....

[93STLTH]

I'm gonna have to stick up for the Stealth in this conversation. I think the Stealth's lines are cleaner than the 3000GT, especially the greenhouse area due to the arced sail panels. Even Mitsubishi saw that the sails on the 3000GT were not quite right and made a change for '99. That said, the 3000GT is still better looking than the other 90's cars discussed.
My list would go: 1)Stealth 2)3000GT 3)300ZX (yes, I know I'm a minority in liking the Nissan, but in person, they are very good looking cars) 4)RX7 - Supra tie 5)NSX (No flow at all in the design, it's all choppy and the rear looks like it was cut off before they finished it. Ugly car with a great chassis and engine, but this is about looks, right)

[TwIzTeD_3kGt]

Stealth = best looking, NSX = ugly. Didn't expect to see that LOL. To each his own, but in the words of Jeremy Clarkson, you're wrong. :p

[Ange]

I wouldn't mind owning a NSX. Ugly? Hell no.

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h472/dcodrington/Cars/Honda-NSX-by-John-Danby-Racing-03.jpg

http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2009/01/17/03/25/1992_honda_nsx-pic-43063.jpeg

[JasonY]

I like the NSX, its proportions look better in person. Also once you drop it down from its very high stock ride height.
The 99 tails help the back of the FD a lot, but still has the very 80's lights across the whole rear thing going on.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/JasonVR4/FDNG10_zpsb6860a8a.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/JasonVR4/media/FDNG10_zpsb6860a8a.jpg.html)

Jason

[j2k4]

I like the NSX, its proportions look better in person. Also once you drop it down from its very high stock ride height.
The 99 tails help the back of the FD a lot, but still has the very 80's lights across the whole rear thing going on.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/JasonVR4/FDNG10_zpsb6860a8a.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/JasonVR4/media/FDNG10_zpsb6860a8a.jpg.html)

Jason

I think this would be the proper juncture to note my affection for FDs...even though some people think that should be ForD. :p

[95gto]

The FD's body was finalized around 88/89 fwiw. Development of the REW engine pushed it off until it being released in 92.

Jason

I don't think dragging pre-production development dates into the discussion is applicable. Then you would have to start talking about how updating an established model from one generation to the next is easier then launching a brand new model, and how those issues influence what consitutes 'contemporary' between different makes and models.

My whole point was just that the 2nd gen 3000gt had styling that was in step with the FD RX7 and the MKIV Supra, and given the release dates was a more applicable comparison.

[IPD]

Based purely on looks:

2nd gen NSX > 1st gen NSX. I'll say it because no one else has done it yet.

97-98 Eagle Talon TSi > FD > MKIV > Z32. There, I said it. Also, TRD 2000GT > TRD 3000GT.

I've no idea why the other cars are considered "beautiful". Neither the FD or the MKIV looks like it has any soul--they're both like a 3rd gen Taurus in coupe form; especially the FD. The z32 at least looks like a sports car...but it's woefully dated. Sure, the 3000GT has a bland backside, but the 2g Stealth r/t rear looks better than ANY cars made in the 90's. That's why the mix & match 3/s wins; because a 97 vr4 with a 2g r/t rear is just pure win (hoop vs. AA vs. banana argument notwithstanding). The 3/s looked the most like a supercar out of any of its similarly priced competition.

P.S.
I kinda like the taillights on the MKIV...but then I moved to europe & saw the tails on Alfas. MKIV's don't look nearly as good.

[95gto]

Based purely on looks:

2nd gen NSX > 1st gen NSX. I'll say it because no one else has done it yet.

97-98 Eagle Talon TSi > FD > MKIV > Z32. There, I said it. Also, TRD 2000GT > TRD 3000GT.

I've no idea why the other cars are considered "beautiful". Neither the FD or the MKIV looks like it has any soul--they're both like a 3rd gen Taurus in coupe form; especially the FD. The z32 at least looks like a sports car...but it's woefully dated. Sure, the 3000GT has a bland backside, but the 2g Stealth r/t rear looks better than ANY cars made in the 90's. That's why the mix & match 3/s wins; because a 97 vr4 with a 2g r/t rear is just pure win (hoop vs. AA vs. banana argument notwithstanding). The 3/s looked the most like a supercar out of any of its similarly priced competition.

P.S.
I kinda like the taillights on the MKIV...but then I moved to europe & saw the tails on Alfas. MKIV's don't look nearly as good.

Proof that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I will gladly let you 'take one for the team' by selecting a talon over an FD. I bet you do/did make a pretty good wing man.

[IPD]

not just any talon...specifically the 97-98 TSi. it just looks more visceral to me, as opposed to the "glorified miata" look of an rx7.

[donniekak]

A mint condition fd popped up in my town for $4,000obo because the owner was moving. I called my friends and told them, because I wouldn't own one if it was free, same with a 300zx.


My first car was an aw11 mr2, talk about connected feeling. The car weighed about 2,300lbs, was mid engine, and had no power steering. I still prefer driving a built dsm for performance, and a mildly lightened 400whp 3s for travel, and daily duty.

The fd looks like a miata, has the power of an na Honda, and the reliability of a 800hp dsm. The 300z just looks fugly, is pretty reliable in stock form, but needs upgraded turbos installed through the tailpipe, and has less aftermarket support than the 3s. The supra is a bloated celica, with an awesome drivetrain.

The irony of all of the 90's cars is that the best looking, 2nd easiest to mod, is by far the cheapest. The fact that ragged out supras go for $20,000 is absurd. I also see rotary powered miata wannabes all going for $10,000. The 300z is the only one of the group with similar pricing to a 3s, but who wants one of those?

[JasonY]

I don't think dragging pre-production development dates into the discussion is applicable. Then you would have to start talking about how updating an established model from one generation to the next is easier then launching a brand new model, and how those issues influence what consitutes 'contemporary' between different makes and models.

My whole point was just that the 2nd gen 3000gt had styling that was in step with the FD RX7 and the MKIV Supra, and given the release dates was a more applicable comparison.

I can agree to all of the above. The gen2 VR4 is one of the best looking cars ever made when its a well tweaked one like Robs, yours(that color....!) and really any that havnt been ruined by their owners. The 97/8 is a good mix of late 90's mitsu style and i really like the front end. Still dont like the lights with the weather stripping around them, but w/e. I really liked my 99, but the styling was a bit too dramatic for something i like to drive all the time.

So far of all 4 of the cars ive had a decent amount of time in and around, the FD gets the most appreciation, the 99 got the most attention(that wing!) and the 93's I've had hardly got the time or day from people that didnt know what it was.

At the end of the day, looks are obviously totally personal opinion, so hopefully no one gets bent out of shape by other peoples opinions, myself included :p Would suck if we all drove the same cars..oh wait most of you do...lol

Jason

[familyMAN]

A mint condition fd popped up in my town for $4,000obo because the owner was moving. I called my friends and told them, because I wouldn't own one if it was free, same with a 300zx.

The fd looks like a miata, has the power of an na Honda, and the reliability of a 800hp dsm. The 300z just looks fugly, is pretty reliable in stock form, but needs upgraded turbos installed through the tailpipe, and has less aftermarket support than the 3s. The supra is a bloated celica, with an awesome drivetrain.

The irony of all of the 90's cars is that the best looking, 2nd easiest to mod, is by far the cheapest. The fact that ragged out supras go for $20,000 is absurd. I also see rotary powered miata wannabes all going for $10,000. The 300z is the only one of the group with similar pricing to a 3s, but who wants one of those?

So, you don't like FD's then?? :D Bolded, had me LOL!

[NOMIEZVR4]

it doesn't take much for an FD to go from miata-ish to one of the best looking out of the group...they have some REALLY nice aftermarket body options...

[IPD]

it doesn't take much for an FD to go from miata-ish to one of the best looking out of the group...they have some REALLY nice aftermarket body options...

if we're talking AM body options, the mkiv takes the cake. and pop-ups just look dated. doesn't matter if they're on a bmw, a 3/s, an rx-7 or a c2-c5 vette.

[Jeremy C]

it doesn't take much for an FD to go from miata-ish to one of the best looking out of the group...they have some REALLY nice aftermarket body options...

Can't use aftermarket for this thread. Talking stock bodied, as if you have to use the aftermarket to make your car look good then you've already lost.

[familyMAN]

if we're talking AM body options, the mkiv takes the cake. and pop-ups just look dated. doesn't matter if they're on a bmw, a 3/s, an rx-7 or a c2-c5 vette.

Doesn't matter if it looks "dated" still could be the best looking. AC cobra, original GT40, Ferrari 308, 993, 69 charger, corvette stingray, Ferrari F40, all "look dated" but still badass and many times, arguably better looking then their modern counterpart. A 1st gen VR4 looks dated to any new car, but still looks better than most of the bloated 1.5x scale cars we have today.

[NOMIEZVR4]

I'm a huge fan of c5's and popups on them too...Same goes for the NSX and FD

[IPD]

hell, if i wanted popups, i'd take a ford probe over an rx-7.

[stealthee]

hell, if i wanted popups, i'd take a ford probe over an rx-7.

And your taste is already in question.

[NOMIEZVR4]

lol...I like where this is going...

http://i.imgur.com/d6EdD.gif
http://i.imgur.com/93wHN.gif
http://i.imgur.com/tAhGL.gif
http://i.imgur.com/3NQVi.gif

[IPD]

And your taste is already in question.

i did buy a 3/s. you'll get no argument from me.

[lawdogg]

Hey man whats wrong with Miata looks you had one!! :p

[HellBringer]

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/AHPowelson/FD/DSCN2328_zps71f24ee7.jpg


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/AHPowelson/1999%20Miata/DSCN2110.jpg








http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/AHPowelson/FD/DSCN2313e_zps8dab52ff.jpg


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/AHPowelson/1999%20Miata/DSCN2101.jpg







http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/AHPowelson/FD/DSCN2310_zps38c54df8.jpg


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/AHPowelson/1999%20Miata/DSCN2108.jpg







http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/AHPowelson/FD/DSCN2323bw_zps3e329f36-1.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/AHPowelson/1999%20Miata/DSCN2103.jpg




About as similar as the 3000GT and Eclipse...

[IPD]

well at least be fair and use the 1st gen hardtop miata if you're going to throw it up there for comparison:

http://image.modified.com/f/marlonthegreat/10497793+w450+h338+cr0+re1+ar1/1990-mazda-miata-mx-5-4.jpg

http://claffie.com/photos/091031/images/091031_36.jpg

i could dig more, but i'm lazy.

[HellBringer]

I used pics of my own cars. ;)

[NOMIEZVR4]

Lotsa FD hate..I'm gonna post some pics of my brothers FD3S...then we will see the haters hate...

[TwIzTeD_3kGt]

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/AHPowelson/FD/DSCN2313e_zps8dab52ff.jpg

About as similar as the 3000GT and Eclipse...

You sir, just changed my mind. Those are some sexy lines.

[NOMIEZVR4]

Have you guys not seen lowered/wheels fd3s rx7's? They're beautiful cars!
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb6i733GuT1qbsoefo1_1280.jpg
http://www.iputinwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/fd_s12p_gld_800.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5041/5342145043_0195958ce6_o.jpg

I guess the reason why I'm a bit more defensive towards the FD is because my vr4 is always parked next to one in the shop..:p

I WILL say this though, out of all the 90's Japanese Sports cars, when the cars have gotten money pumped into them, when they DO get decked out, the 3/s IMO always came in last. I'm talking strictly cosmetically. Do you guys remember the goofy paint scheme on the HKS 3000GT from back in the day? Bee-R GTO, Bozzspeed, Kaze GTO? Most of the 3/s magazine appearances looked goofy as hell..PRM and zesty cars look meh...but there weren't many else...on the other hand, the wild Supras, RX7s, NSXs, 300ZXs and Skylines when gone wild, some actually look pretty crazy! The crazy 3s cars usually end up being WTF...

some examples...
http://www.scorpiocars.net/images/HKS/1993%20HKS%203000GT%20VR-4_1.jpg
http://www.makeup-power.co.jp/tunedcar/img/13_01.jpg
http://www.3si.org/gallery/data/500/medium/Autopsyche_PW_3000GT_5.jpg
http://www.3si.org/forum/attachments/f119/71846d1216179354-any-one-see-newer-tuningart-bodykit-3000gt-widebody.jpg
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/3150/3441/7874220005_large.jpg

catch my drift?? The 3/s really was the bastard child of the 90's supercars...

[JasonY]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/JasonVR4/photobucket-6142-1378071699843_zps61c97a67.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/JasonVR4/media/photobucket-6142-1378071699843_zps61c97a67.jpg.html)

Stock body is best :)

Jason

[Ange]

Have you guys not seen lowered/wheels fd3s rx7's? They're beautiful cars!
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb6i733GuT1qbsoefo1_1280.jpg
http://www.iputinwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/fd_s12p_gld_800.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5041/5342145043_0195958ce6_o.jpg

I guess the reason why I'm a bit more defensive towards the FD is because my vr4 is always parked next to one in the shop..:p

I WILL say this though, out of all the 90's Japanese Sports cars, when the cars have gotten money pumped into them, when they DO get decked out, the 3/s IMO always came in last. I'm talking strictly cosmetically. Do you guys remember the goofy paint scheme on the HKS 3000GT from back in the day? Bee-R GTO, Bozzspeed, Kaze GTO? Most of the 3/s magazine appearances looked goofy as hell..PRM and zesty cars look meh...but there weren't many else...on the other hand, the wild Supras, RX7s, NSXs, 300ZXs and Skylines when gone wild, some actually look pretty crazy! The crazy 3s cars usually end up being WTF...

some examples...
http://www.scorpiocars.net/images/HKS/1993%20HKS%203000GT%20VR-4_1.jpg
http://www.makeup-power.co.jp/tunedcar/img/13_01.jpg
http://www.3si.org/gallery/data/500/medium/Autopsyche_PW_3000GT_5.jpg
http://www.3si.org/forum/attachments/f119/71846d1216179354-any-one-see-newer-tuningart-bodykit-3000gt-widebody.jpg
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/3150/3441/7874220005_large.jpg

catch my drift?? The 3/s really was the bastard child of the 90's supercars...

Totally dependant on who does the work.

You should check out the thai's GTO club Ie. YATT. They do good work with these cars.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KKSqmFngM8w/TmZHAgGUpeI/AAAAAAAAAcQ/py3K2MY9Jlk/s1600/28958_118784.jpg

http://sammy21t.free.fr/3000gt/Photos/3000GT%20TUNING/g25_resize_2_.jpg

[JasonY]

No they dont.

Jason

[Ange]

No they dont.

Jason

They do and most seem to think so because cianci are selling their designed stuff.

Seems to me on most 3s boards people like what YATT does.

but this is OT thread was about oem cars.

[IPD]

well since this thread is now completely derailed, i'm posting modded pics:

http://www.japanesesportcars.com/galleries/data/media/42/1993-supra-ab-flug-s900.jpg

[Jeremy C]

True, complete derailed and that Supra SCREAMS 90's! :D I remember seeing that car ages ago, can't remember who made it now.

[anyonebutme]

True, complete derailed and that Supra SCREAMS 90's! :D I remember seeing that car ages ago, can't remember who made it now.

it's on the windshield, and it's ugly as hell

[NOMIEZVR4]

IPD you were just waiting for an excuse to post a modded car..:p and abflugs supra was one that wasn't a hit...from the first day I saw it it looked fugly

All the rx-7s I posted above are stock body cars...except for the little lip on the red one on the trunk...BTW

And yeah the YATT cars are an exception...and the only ones at that. I'm not super crazy about em but compared to all the other aftermarket modded 3/s cars...they're actually visually aesthetic.

[DK77]

In regards to the last post, I'll just leave this here

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4637/1181/24090590054_large.jpg

And/or this

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt242/agysler/DR1400%20build/27F1DF6D.jpg

[HellBringer]

^^Those are absolutely horrendous... Nice wheels (not Mustang repros from eBay), a drop and maybe an aftermarket lip is all any 3/S needs.

[fullracegt]

I still feel that a spotless 97-98 dropped is one of the sexiest cars from the 90's even on stock 18's.

[JasonY]

All the rx-7s I posted above are stock body cars...except for the little lip on the red one on the trunk...BTW

But they are all too low to be used properly.

Jason

[NOMIEZVR4]

were talkin aesthetics...;)

[JasonY]

They go hand in hand. Aesthetics and function.

Jason. #1 hellaflush/stretched tire hater in the world.

[stealthee]

I think you are #2 Jason.

Hellaflush stretched tires is the worst fad ever. I fucking HATE IT!

[DK77]

Uh oh, this is about to turn into the we all hate hellaflush thread... And in regards to Abram, while the red car may not be in everyone's taste, the white one is IMO the best look 3S I've ever seen. Especially if you consider form AND function.

[CoopKill]

Not a fan of the craptastic fitting hood, the squatting rear, and the gtr wing on the white one. At least the mods on the red one all line up with body lines.

[i3igpete]

well since this thread is now completely derailed, i'm posting modded pics:

http://www.japanesesportcars.com/galleries/data/media/42/1993-supra-ab-flug-s900.jpg


This thing would fit right in with any of today's $1million+ hypercars.

[DocWalt]

This thing would fit right in with any of today's $1million+ hypercars.

So it looks silly?

[mb3000]

^Looks like a mid '90's HotWheels car.