3.5L NA w/272's and Chromed ROM

[TUFFTR]

Hello good people! Question time!

I'm running a 3.5L NA engine, with 272's and soon to be extractors and 3" exhaust. As far as mods go, It's also got adjustable cam gears but they are set at 0 for now. More for da bling.

Anyhoo, After months and months doing an entire body loom swap, I've finally got the car running on a TT Chromed ECU from Jester. Now, I suspect one injector is faulty but I'll deal with that tomorrow (and that injector will be replaced this week)

Running a stock MAF, stock fuel system. Throwing a CEL which I'll hopefully have time tomorrow to find out which CEL it's throwing.
Just wanted to know, besides an injector re-scaling, I'd like to keep the fuel and timing map of the TT as it's a bit more aggressive than the NA Map, what else would need changing?

After the car has had the entire exhaust system made up on and put on I will be getting a proper dyno tune (only driving a mere 10 hours for it....only 2 tuners in Australia I trust...) and having all these issues fixed up.

But yeah, the car runs no EGR, no Active anything, it's as basic as you can get (not even ABS) I was hoping to get a mail order ROM that would suffice until then, that just didnt throw a CEL, and possibly had the TT fuel/timing maps but scaled to an NA ROM (better resolution)

Thank you gents!

[Greg E]

I have no idea what all needs to be changed on your car but I can tell you, tuning an NA is no different than a TT.

Set the injector size.
Set the CEL peripheries (in your case, I'd probably turn them all off)
Drive and log fuel trims
Adjust MAF smoothing table to bring fuel trims within spec.

Tuning Open Loop is the same way as a TT car as well. Log knock, wide band (obviously you need it hooked up into the ecu and scaled properly) and adjust your fuel and timing tables for peak power.

It's honestly not hard. Just time consuming. :)

[TUFFTR]

Hiya Greg! Honestly, I'm not too interested in the tuning aspect as I've done this myself for years on the old aftermarket ECU (hell I tuned the idle, fuel trims, ignition timing, everything from a 100% blank map) and now that I have a reliable solution I'm just keen to get it to well running state and let the professionals on a dyno do its once and only tuning! Maybe I'll need to re-tune it when I get Meth installed but I'm trying pretty hard to have it in before the tune.

Excellent though! so, MAF scaling *should* be the same as it's just a stock NA MAF, so just change the injector size to suit and turn off the peripheries. Sweet. Should be all I need to keep it going. Thanks! Just needed clarification on that was all!

[futurevr4man]

you are going to probably need to play with the VE table too because ill bet it will be too aggressive as far as fueling goes, due to you not having any snails. but idk, i could be completely wrong because the FPR in a tt car bumps fuel pressure 1:1 with boost, so maybe most of the extra fuel comes from that?

anyhow, just be prepared in case.

[3000gttom]

yea, im running the n/a rom and after adding headers i had to add 5-10% across the board to my VE table to bring the fuel trims to a normal range

definitely be careful with "professionals", lots of them made names for themselves tuning muscle cars with carbs and distributors and may not be so good with these... and im not a tuning expert but i dont think there is such a thing as a once and only tune...especially the closed loop stuff

[TUFFTR]

The guy I'm going to is an expert in Tuning Mitsubishi Evolutions. He actually worked for Mitsubishi Australia back when it was operating. Long story short, he really does know his stuff when it comes to Tuning a MAF based mitsubishi.

However, Al your input is appreciated. I've gotta read up more on the VE stuff as I did dabble a bit with VE back on my old ECU but it made no sense to me how this actually worked. Kind of just up or down it until the AFR's are right!

I have a WB02 aswell but currently the sensor isn't in the exhaust. So that's another issue, waiting to get the entire exhaust made up first to have the bung welded in while he's at it.

Hopefully got my hands on an openport 2.0 cable for a few weeks to borrow and do some logs (when I can sort out the final niggly bits of the loom conversion!) and see how I go.

Thanks guys, and keep those ideas and recommendations coming at me

[TUFFTR]

The guy I'm going to is an expert in Tuning Mitsubishi Evolutions. He actually worked for Mitsubishi Australia back when it was operating. Long story short, he really does know his stuff when it comes to Tuning a MAF based mitsubishi.

However, Al your input is appreciated. I've gotta read up more on the VE stuff as I did dabble a bit with VE back on my old ECU but it made no sense to me how this actually worked. Kind of just up or down it until the AFR's are right!

I have a WB02 aswell but currently the sensor isn't in the exhaust. So that's another issue, waiting to get the entire exhaust made up first to have the bung welded in while he's at it.

Hopefully got my hands on an openport 2.0 cable for a few weeks to borrow and do some logs (when I can sort out the final niggly bits of the loom conversion!) and see how I go.

Thanks guys, and keep those ideas and recommendations coming at me

[futurevr4man]

VE = volumetric efficiency.

a higher volumetric efficiency is going to mean its putting in more fuel. a lower volumetric efficiency means the ecu is putting in less fuel. increase for more fuel, decrease for less.

i typed out a more technical answer the first time, but its gets kinda convoluted and confusing so just go off that simple explanation :)

[3000gttom]

are you talking about merlin from the evolutionm forum? he's in australia and very good

and VE is nothing more than the (mass)/(unit volume) of air in the engine... this controls the size of each individual injector pulse so that there is the correct amount of fuel for the mass of air in the engine

[TUFFTR]

are you talking about merlin from the evolutionm forum? he's in australia and very good

and VE is nothing more than the (mass)/(unit volume) of air in the engine... this controls the size of each individual injector pulse so that there is the correct amount of fuel for the mass of air in the engine

He is one of the two I was talking about! I am keen on going to the other guy however Merlin is the guy who wrote the entire tuning guide to tuning an evo via ecuflash and if anyone would know a mitsubishi ECU back to front it'd probably be him - I'll see, one or the other though they are both very knowledgeable blokes. I do like the fact merlin will also street tune the car which is just too hard to DIY personally, done it for years with the old ecu.....drive, log, check logs, alter file, re-upload, drive, log, check log, alter file, re-upload etc etc etc, over it!

And I appreciate the trying to explain VE to me. My mind works in weird and wonderful ways. Some things make perfect sense, others dont. This is one of them!

So nothing else I would need to alter? besides the standard fuel trims, timing/fuel tables?
I think turning off the things that cause a CEL is first up and just altering injector size. Apart from that I'll leave it to the pros!

[Greg E]

Say hello to Merlin from me!

[TUFFTR]

I will!
My last question which I'm sure has been answered before is as such
There are two fuel and two ignition maps, Low octane, high octane.

What does the ECU consider as "low" and "high" octane?
I plan on converting the car to vapour injected LPG (below)
Liquefied petroleum gas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_petroleum_gas)
(Which my daily is currently on right now, just a mixer style though not injected)
Which is anywhere from 105-110RON rating. To take full advantage of this, you can increase the timing a buttload and actually make more power and more torque then over petrol. Best part is is it's 0.55cents a litre compared to $1.60 a litre for 98 petrol right now :D :D

SOOOOOO, I want to run the low igniton map for high octane fuel (98-100RON) and have the high octane maps for the LPG with extra timing added in. I'll also have a MAF based progressive meth injection kit so this car's intake should be pretty damn cold most of the time :D

Probably something you havent been asked before (Running what we call "dual fuel" down here) but I figured now a better time then ever...

[anyonebutme]

"octane" is done by knock sensor. think of it less as octane maps and more as high knock and low knock maps.

[Greg E]

Pretty sure I've done a thread or two on the Octane feature.

Maybe... Can't remember.

[TUFFTR]

Sweet. I'll do a search tonight and see how I go. :)

[3000gttom]

yea merlin is the one that dissasembled my ecu rom... he got a ton of stuff and took him like a day lol... probably the best around

[n2nsanity]

Paul, when you throwing snails on this thing man? You've done all the expensive mods already :p

I'm still having a hard time getting started on this chrome stuff. I'm throwing 21 CEL's lol. If I could find the zip file with the rom and xml files, that might help...

[TUFFTR]

I think you need to donate to Greg to be able to download the xml and such. To be honest It's a bit over my head aswell - but I'll do some more reading on this. I'm used to the Adaptronic ECU, Connect the cable, open the software, BANG connected!

Nah no turbos. Not interested in FI if I'm perfectly honest!
Next build i a 3.8L with 13:1, stage 3 heads and the meth and LPG system I should have installed beforehand, that'll be 2014 judging by how my savings look though!

[n2nsanity]

3.8 @ 13:1 sounds fun. I've been wanting to do get ahold of a 75 also :)
Think you just need the block and crank then reuse all your 74 stuff.

[TUFFTR]

3.8 @ 13:1 sounds fun. I've been wanting to do get ahold of a 75 also :)
Think you just need the block and crank then reuse all your 74 stuff.

Way ahead of you! Already have a 74 Block, 75 crank and forged 74 rods. Just need to find the $800 to buy pistons.

First on the list is new wheels/tyres and the exhaust and tune....then the engine build can start :P

[TUFFTR]

Few questions!!
1) How do I actually edit the table? i.e. turning from on to off? God damn I feel noob...
2) I have downloaded the TT ROM, mainly because it has a bit more agressive timing in it then the NA ROM, however I was reading due to the NA ROM having more resolution, the car will 'run better' on an NA ROM, should I use the 3L NA ROM or the TT ROM?

[Greg E]

It will "run good" with either ROM installed. I drive my SL with a TT ROM on it all the time. :)

If you're keeping the variable intake, you'll need the NA ROM though.

[futurevr4man]

Few questions!!
1) How do I actually edit the table? i.e. turning from on to off? God damn I feel noob...
2) I have downloaded the TT ROM, mainly because it has a bit more agressive timing in it then the NA ROM, however I was reading due to the NA ROM having more resolution, the car will 'run better' on an NA ROM, should I use the 3L NA ROM or the TT ROM?

1. use the "=" key, or if you are changing bits, use the "[" or "]" keys.

2. use the NA rom, and copy in the TT timing map. best of both worlds. (literally ctrl c, ctrl v the table into the other)

[TUFFTR]

Na no variable intake, using the 3.8 one! Thanks guys thats sweet as. Ill purchase the na rom this week and do just that. Perfect!
Much love <3

[n2nsanity]

Way ahead of you! Already have a 74 Block, 75 crank and forged 74 rods. Just need to find the $800 to buy pistons.

First on the list is new wheels/tyres and the exhaust and tune....then the engine build can start :P

That's close enough I guess. I was talking about an actual 6g75 bottom end and moving heads, brackets and everything else over from the 74

[TUFFTR]

That's close enough I guess. I was talking about an actual 6g75 bottom end and moving heads, brackets and everything else over from the 74

No point in trying to customise stuff to fit. I'd rather use the drop in block and bore out the internals. Looks stock that way. Not interested in the heads, I spent years yearning for DOHC heads and now people are like, nah they are rubbish put the SOHC ones on. NO! I like my DOHC heads!

Taxtrix 2.0 cable arrived tonight so if I can suss out why my alternator light isnt coming on by Sunday hopefully I can flash it this week :D

[TUFFTR]

I'm not lying when I say I spend a few hours each night reading over Chromed ECU stuff in the hope I get my head around it.

Another questions, I notice the SL ROM is V1 and the TT ROM is V2, and I note Greg making mention of a few things he didn't quite get right in V1 as opposed to V2. Does this mean the idle stuff isnt as good on the V1 SL ROM as it is the TT ROM?
Also, is there anyway to get the massive 15x30 maps on the NA ROM like there is the TT ROM?

Also, I just run one rear o2 sensor......would someone be able to point me to which bit I enable/diable to make sure it only uses the one O2...

[Greg E]

I didn't get stuff right with V1 turbo. V1 SL is perfect. :)

[TUFFTR]

I didn't get stuff right with V1 turbo. V1 SL is perfect. :)

Awesome mate, just good for clarification! Any word on the bigger resolution maps for NA? It will be good as I'm positive I ordered a flashed NA ECU but the sticker says it's TT, so I'm keen to read the ROM on it and see what it is. (you know to put that curiosity bug to sleep!) Either way when the car fired up, for being a bigger motor with cams i was SO happy. Just started and idled right up, how can you go wrong? Why would anyone with an NA every go standalone again?!

[TUFFTR]

Greg, I also noticed on the TT ROM there are such features the wideband sensor scaling which isn't on the NA ROM, I'm gathering there's a good reason for this. I'd prefer my wideband to be hooked up so I might just stay with the TT ROM. Argh, choices.

[Greg E]

I can add that to the NA ROM no problem.

[TUFFTR]

I see. Honestly, since I still have another week to flash the ECU (Just purchased an optima to ensure I dont brick the ECU on the current "I've fucked it" battery) so in your honest opinion - what's the best route to go? NA ROM with the added bits and hopefully the higher res fuel/timing maps, or just stick with the TT ROM?

[Greg E]

Why do you think you need higher res fuel and time maps?

[TUFFTR]

Why do you think you need higher res fuel and time maps?

Well, I figured why not use it if its there but then I just re-checked both ROM's and its still scaled RPM the same and still scaled at 10 plots in 100 so yeah I guess either one is the same really.
Don't mind me I type aloud sometimes :P