BigTyla goes car shopping!

[BigTyla]

My wife and I are in the process of closing on a house, and once that's out of the way I'll be in the market for a new vehicular acquisition. I figured now was as good a time as ever to get a head start and test drive some cars since I have such a long list of cars I’d like to check out. I figured I’d share my experiences with you all while getting some input on your thoughts about the kind of car I’m looking for. Here are some things you need to know:

1) Have ’02 Explorer. Four doors not necessary, especially with wanting more kids.
2) Have DSM as a project vehicle. Want a low-maintenance vehicle. Any modding if at all will be light.
3) Would like a car I could enjoy on the autocross course. The DSM may or may not cover that spectrum so I’d like my future car to also be able to serve that duty.
4) Will not necessarily be my daily driver, but will likely be the case.
5) Would like to spend less than $33k with a $45k maximum. Bang for buck a factor.
6) Car must have less than 60k miles.
7) I have plenty of time to wait. I’m a patient guy and am willing to wait a few months for a good deal, especially since I still have to put the finishing touches on the DSM!
8) I live in the boonies. No BWM, Mitsu, Subaru, Lexus, Porsche, or VW dealerships within 80 miles of me, so warranties on these brands mean very little to me.

Some of the cars I want to look at include but are not limited to:

1) Honda S2000 (used)
2) Scion FR-S
3) Mitsubishi Evo X (used)
4) Subaru WRX STI hatch (used)
5) Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (used)
6) Ford Mustang GT500 (used)
7) Ford Mustang GT with Track Pack
8) Ford Focus ST
9) Porsche Cayman S (used – will have hard time finding one within 100 miles)

I will keep my review of the vehicles I drive in a separate post. Let me know what you think, and take a guess at which car I’m favoring so far!

[IPD]

$5 says it's the focus ST. that car is so much win.

[BigTyla]

2011 Subaru WRX STI – the first car I drove. Felt more mature on the inside than it did on the outside. Could really get used to the sound of the boxer motor. Shifted very well and handling was good. Suspension tight but not too rough. Definitely good enough for daily driver status. The car I tested was not a hatchback, and I would prefer the hatchback body style. Wasn’t a fan of the big wing on the back. Felt like the one on the Evo fit the car better in terms of looks. Interior was decent but not mindblowing.

2008 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X – drove this immediately after the STI. Wasn’t a very fair comparison because this Evo had a Cobb tune, intake, exhaust, and probably a couple of other light mods done. Easily the fastest car I drove all day. Very responsive throttle. Really like the seats. Didn’t hug me too tight and were supportive enough for long trips. Recaro did a great job on them. Handling felt superior to the STI, including the steering. Shifting was comparable to the STI. Like the STI, I would classify the interior in the Evo as sufficient. Definitely nothing to write home about. Liked the looks of the Evo a lot more than the STI. My only complaint was the exhaust on the Evo. I don’t recall what brand it was, but I can imagine the buzz heard in the interior getting old after awhile. It wasn’t as loud as VR4Dani’s Evo that has a testpipe, so it would be likely be livable for daily driving for me. Really can’t make a verdict on the exhaust one way or the other until I were to actually own and drive it for awhile. Overall very impressed with this car.

2013 Ford Focus ST – neat car. Really liked the interior. This one was the ST3 package with the Recaros. Seats felt about the same as in the Evo. Steering wheel had an excellent design; the best feeling wheel of all the cars I drove except for the FR-S. Very responsive steering, decent power but obviously nowhere near the Evo or STI. Shifting felt good but the gates were extremely close and I often found myself overshooting third. Would take getting used to as I’m used to much wider gates. Clutch would engage not even a tenth of an inch off the floor. Very surprising to me for a car like this. Reviews on torque steer mitigation from this car were correct. Ford did an excellent job with this car.

2013 Ford Mustang GT – incredible car for the price. Interior was fine. This car was a basic GT package. No Brembos or track pack. Seats were good for a non-race design, but would likely want the Recaros that come with the track pack. Car was definitely fast. Shifted well, but it felt like it really wanted a lot of input compared to the other cars where it just glided in gear. Wouldn’t hold it against this car. Stock exhaust and it still sounded great. Could really get used to that classic V8 Mustang sound. After the other three test drives though, this car felt heavy and large. Very long front end, quite wide, and less responsive handling than the other three cars. Didn’t feel nearly as engaged in this car as the others I drove.

2008 Lexus IS-F – the only car with an automatic that I tested all day. Originally went to this dealership to test an S2000 and a 335i, but they had coincidentally sold both that day. This car did not disappoint. The paddle shifting seemed more responsive than most other cars with this technology, but still lagged my input more than I would like. Car had a lot of power. Pulled almost as well as the Evo, and would have definitely been the faster of the two if not for the mods on the Evo. V8 sounded incredible. Handling was good. Braking was even better. Massive brakes on this thing that were replaced by the dealership. Interior was the nicest of all the cars. Leather was good. Wife would enjoy driving this car and would like this one the most due to the auto trans. Hefty price tag for a 2008 model though.

2013 Scion FR-S – really wanted to give this car a chance. Heard a lot of reviews about lack of power and phenomenal handling and wanted to see for myself. Went to this dealer to test a manual model but they said it had not yet arrived. Should get it in next week. Had a barely used model with an auto and offered me a test drive, so I gave it a go. The salesman I was working with was probably the best I had dealt with all day. He took me through some nice backroads with varying pavement qualities to really get a feel for the car and that was greatly appreciated. This car is, in a word, brilliant. Handling is out of this world. Responsive steering. Suspension is surprisingly soft for a car that handles this well. Steering wheel felt amazing. Seats were very supportive and comfortable. Engine was raspy but quiet until you really got high into the powerband. Despite scathing reviews on its lack of power, I found the acceleration in the car to be adequate. Definitely the slowest of all the cars I tested, but forgivable for a brand new car at $25k with everything else in the car being absolutely brilliant. Honestly have nothing to complain about for this car. Toyobaru hit this one out of the park.

[J-Groove]

Sounds like a fun list of cars to test drive.

Also check out the Mustang BOSS 302 Leguna Seca Edition.

I would recommend checking out the Sky Redline / Solstice GXP

-John

[IPD]

oh yeah. solstice hardtop is dead sexy too. :)

[AdamVR4]

2013 Scion FR-S – really wanted to give this car a chance. Heard a lot of reviews about lack of power and phenomenal handling and wanted to see for myself. Went to this dealer to test a manual model but they said it had not yet arrived. Should get it in next week. Had a barely used model with an auto and offered me a test drive, so I gave it a go. The salesman I was working with was probably the best I had dealt with all day. He took me through some nice backroads with varying pavement qualities to really get a feel for the car and that was greatly appreciated. This car is, in a word, brilliant. Handling is out of this world. Responsive steering. Suspension is surprisingly soft for a car that handles this well. Steering wheel felt amazing. Seats were very supportive and comfortable. Engine was raspy but quiet until you really got high into the powerband. Despite scathing reviews on its lack of power, I found the acceleration in the car to be adequate. Definitely the slowest of all the cars I tested, but forgivable for a brand new car at $25k with everything else in the car being absolutely brilliant. Honestly have nothing to complain about for this car. Toyobaru hit this one out of the park.

We've got ~50 miles on ours (asphalt grey, 6 spd MT, Bespoke, 3M bra). Ordered an OEM arm rest for it yesterday (~$180, to replace the aftermarket one I already have, haha)... We will replace the boy-racer door sills this weekend.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c115/adamvr-4/20130423_195258_zpsbd670f76.jpg

[BigTyla]

Sounds like a fun list of cars to test drive.

Also check out the Mustang BOSS 302 Leguna Seca Edition.

I would recommend checking out the Sky Redline / Solstice GXP

-John

I had honestly not even thought of the Sky/Solstice. Might have to put that one on the radar. No GXPs or Redlines within 75 miles though.

As for the Boss, I'd probably test the regular version. The Leguna Seca doesn't give as good a bang for the buck IMO, and I'd be hard-pressed to find one close too.

[BigTyla]

We've got ~50 miles on ours (asphalt grey, 6 spd MT, Bespoke, 3M bra). Ordered an OEM arm rest for it yesterday (~$180, to replace the aftermarket one I already have, haha)... We will replace the boy-racer door sills this weekend.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c115/adamvr-4/20130423_195258_zpsbd670f76.jpg

Coincidentally the one coming into the dealership next week is exactly the same. Is this an omen?

How do you like it so far?

[AdamVR4]

Coincidentally the one coming into the dealership next week is exactly the same. Is this an omen?

How do you like it so far?

It's a little boring keeping it under 4000 rpm's during the 1000 mile break-in, but it's beautiful and comfortable. The only thing I wish it had is radio controls on the steering wheel because the touch-screen bespoke is a little bit of a PITA while the car is moving. If they ever make that a factory option I'll upgrade.

I believe the high pressure fuel pump is ticking, which is very common... So now there are 2 sewing machines in the garage. We'll put some miles on it in the country this weekend :D

[BigTyla]

It's a little boring keeping it under 4000 rpm's during the 1000 mile break-in, but it's beautiful and comfortable. The only thing I wish it had is radio controls on the steering wheel because the touch-screen bespoke is a little bit of a PITA while the car is moving. If they ever make that a factory option I'll upgrade.

I believe the high pressure fuel pump is ticking, which is very common... So now there are 2 sewing machines in the garage. We'll put some miles on it in the country this weekend :D

I can imagine the break-in period being an issue. Hard to keep a high-revving car like this under 4k, especially when that's the sweet spot.

[HLxDrummer]

Man doesn't sound like you can go wrong! I don't have any input but I am looking forward to seeing what you have to say about all the cars and what you pick.

[IPD]

shoulda made a poll

[Willens]

Drove the 12 Mustang 5.0 with track pack and catback; I inertia drifted it onto an on-ramp and was so predictably concise in where I needed it to go; felt like McQueen in Bullitt the whole time, 7300rpm quick-shifts... just a blast. I still have the possibility of that being my end choice in due time. The track pack really makes a hearty difference, but as a long-time Mustang modifier/enthusiast, of course my opinion is slightly skewed. The Boss 302 is miles above, but I can't even find them too often. The GT500 is fun, but the driver feedback isn't as rewarding. I've driven a few GT500's and Super Snakes, and while fun cars, just seem to struggle to really put the power down in the turns. The only way I can even get the 605/750hp Super Snake models through the turns is by going intentionally sideways, it's a bit ironic.

[UTRacerX9]

For $45k, that's 996 Turbo money. Wait awhile and enjoy it, then when you get used to the speed, spend $1300 and get an ECU flash and get another 80 horsepower and 90ft lbs of torque.

[VR4Rob]

Good on you for driving a bunch of different stuff. If you drive a 335, at least drive a sport package car. It's a really different animal than the base model and will drastically change your opinion of it. I drove a base auto sedan and almost didn't even go drive Greyson's M-Sport because I was so disappointed. After I drove Greyson's car... you see how that turned out. I'd check out a 135 also, they can be had for significantly cheaper than E90/92s and they're near 120 mph cars with a JB4 and downpipes lol. I've seen 135 M-Sport cars with less than 20K miles go for around 30K.

[ukyo]

Buy an off lease Volt and use the savings on gas per month to make your DSM in to whatever you want it to be and then some. That is what I would do with my VR-4 if I had a 3 car garage. ;)

My rental (meaning leased) 2013 Volt is getting 360 MPG and is running less than $35 a month between electricity and gas. Throw it in "Sport" mode and it can be fun red light to red light. 1/4 mile? Forget it! Unmodded Honda territory (mid 16s @ ~85 MPH with a tail wind), but it launches like a FWD monster. Electric motor = instant TQ. TQ > HP any day, IMO. :)

Good luck with whatever you decide on!

[Snook]

ive driven several fr-s. fun in the country, where both of us live, town is still entertaining, but not as much. see if he will let you backroad the car for about 30 minutes.

[PearlWhiteR/T]

The Corvette ZO6 with 505 hp. Pretty wild cars to drive from what I hear.

[sergechronos]

I'm sure folks will rag on me, but honestly RX8 would be a good pick up. You stay on top of maintenance with it and they're fairly reliable. Might be hard to find one under 60k miles now though. But they're a blast to drive on twistys, the rear seat is quasi usable. They're pretty comfy until you start flickin it around corners. Of course plenty of mods out there if you want more out of it. Course unless you have a Mazda dealer close by, won't be super helpful, but they did extend the warranty on motors to like 10 years 100k miles.

[dbest671]

My sister had an RX8, nothing but a POS.

You said Corvette, have you thought about adding a CTS-V to that list?

[IPD]

veloster turbo.

[R/T93]

veloster turbo.

So you could own one of the worst rated "hot hatch" available?

From the phone.

[BigTyla]

My sister had an RX8, nothing but a POS.

You said Corvette, have you thought about adding a CTS-V to that list?

It is actually on my list, but apparently I forgot to post it.

Re RX8: thought about test driving it just to give it a shot, but I'm not a fan of them at all.

Re Chevy Volt: honestly not what I'm after. I'd rather just continue to drive the Explorer as a daily than do that since it's paid off anyway. This car is for me to have fun in and do it reliably.

Re Veloster Turbo: do not want, even with a 20 yr/200k mile warranty.

[AdamVR4]

veloster turbo.

How did you end up owning a 3S with such terrible taste? Does not compute.

[vroom4]

Mazdaspeed 3.


/standard plug.

[BigTyla]

Copypasta from me addressing a local forum that I'm also sharing this experience with:

...if I were to buy an FR-S though, I'd want to ride the warranty as long as possible. Would I be able to leave the motor alone for five years? With my DSM in the stable, it is possible, but then again, it keeps getting harder and harder to find the time to work on it, so that has to be a consideration as well.

With the Evo, I get a car that is pretty much out of warranty but is typically reliable and very fast with a simple tune and exhaust work. That said, cost will likely come to only a little less ($1-2k tops) than a new FR-S, and the car would attract a TON of unwanted attention wherever I go.

The Mustang gives insane bang for buck value, but it will cost about $31-32k for a new one with the Track Pack, and while it handles okay I couldn't help but feel a lack of connection with the car. It felt pretty heavy, but is that something that you get used to after awhile? Would this honestly be a good car to autocross?

And of course, if I'm honestly considering an FR-S, I HAVE to look at an S2000. It's basically the same car only without a roof and a little faster in the straights. You can get one under 60k miles for $16-19k, so at the highest range you're saving $6k compared to the FR-S but missing a warranty. That said, the S2000 is damn near bulletproof and is a track monster.

I'm actually leaning more toward the $30k max range now. I could afford a Z06/CTS-V/etc right now but I'd really like to put that extra savings toward the house for the time being.

To be honest, it's really the Evo and FR-S above everything else right now. When I drove the Evo, there was something in me that said "this is the car." The power, the handling, the looks - it has the perfect balance of everything. Then I drove the FR-S and put it at a very close second, but it's a car I would be happy to own. To be honest, the big thing keeping the FR-S close to the Evo is the warranty. Similar price to the Evo but with five years of replacing anything that breaks? That's hard to pass up for someone that wants to do as little maintenance to his next car purchase as possible.

[AdamVR4]

We did the minimum warranty on our FR-S (3 yr / 36K) because, as the wife told the finance guy at Scion, "This will be a fun car that we modify." I think they had warranty options up to 10 years, but I didn't pay much attention to it.

I wouldn't be able to justify another Mitsu. A dealer supposedly just set up shop in Austin again, but since we didn't even have a dealer here for ~3 years, I'm not optimistic about Mitsu's future support of its cars.

[IPD]

How did you end up owning a 3S with such terrible taste? Does not compute.

if you're assuming i have terrible taste, then yes, it makes perfect sense.

[whitedragon]

Whatever you get, make sure it has a 2JZ! Those are so reliable, you won't even need a warranty.

[BigTyla]

We did the minimum warranty on our FR-S (3 yr / 36K) because, as the wife told the finance guy at Scion, "This will be a fun car that we modify." I think they had warranty options up to 10 years, but I didn't pay much attention to it.

I wouldn't be able to justify another Mitsu. A dealer supposedly just set up shop in Austin again, but since we didn't even have a dealer here for ~3 years, I'm not optimistic about Mitsu's future support of its cars.

Doesn't it also come with a 5 yr/60k mile on the powertrain? I would also eschew the extended warranty.

Regarding Mitsubishi in general, I understand and share your concern. There isn't a Mitsubishi dealership within 2.5 hours of me, and the Evo is so rare around these parts that if it breaks, I'm on my own. That's a big consideration for me to keep in mind.

[sergechronos]

To be honest, it's really the Evo and FR-S above everything else right now. When I drove the Evo, there was something in me that said "this is the car." The power, the handling, the looks - it has the perfect balance of everything. Then I drove the FR-S and put it at a very close second, but it's a car I would be happy to own. To be honest, the big thing keeping the FR-S close to the Evo is the warranty. Similar price to the Evo but with five years of replacing anything that breaks? That's hard to pass up for someone that wants to do as little maintenance to his next car purchase as possible.

Would you be able to own the FR-S without modding it? And how lenient are they going to be on the warranty once you do start doing mods? Can you really go 5 years (or 3) without modding the motor or suspension or anything? Do you trust the local dealer for service without jacking it up?

Don't get me wrong, I like the Evo, but I'd never get a new one here because the local dealer and the techs are completely useless.

The S2000 is a badass car, although I'd be careful to make sure I got one that hasn't been modded to hell and then put back to stock before purchase.

[JasonY]

off your list, the Z06 or heck, 45k can get u a damn near brand new Loaded up grand sport. When u get bored, add a s/c and cam with a GS and bam faster than just about anything on the road, they look amazing on some nice wheels.

FRS is dynamically a brilliant car, but is missing some go for me to enjoy the way i enjoy my FD rx7 which is fast enough to have to pay attention. The FRS is a modern iteration of it imo but not as hard core since its coming in significantly cheaper than the FD was.

There is a ton of value in a good chassis, the FD has reminded me of that. While no where near as powerful as the DR750 VR4 i have access to, its worlds more rewarding to drive and i honestly never see myself back in a 3/S as a hobby car.

You can get a mint FD for around 20k, i got mine for a steal and have never looked back and sweet jesus its beautiful in a way no new car can or ever will be again due to the rising belt line and crash standards which have ruined the proportions of many new cars. I parked the FD next to a FRS and its shocking how tall the FRS looked compared to my FD. it was dark so i never took a pic comparing the two.

Jason

[wingnut]

daily driver...

http://cdn.wall-pix.net/albums/vehicles-cars/00025485.jpg

[AdamVR4]

off your list, the Z06 or heck, 45k can get u a damn near brand new Loaded up grand sport. When u get bored, add a s/c and cam with a GS and bam faster than just about anything on the road, they look amazing on some nice wheels.

FRS is dynamically a brilliant car, but is missing some go for me to enjoy the way i enjoy my FD rx7 which is fast enough to have to pay attention. The FRS is a modern iteration of it imo but not as hard core since its coming in significantly cheaper than the FD was.

There is a ton of value in a good chassis, the FD has reminded me of that. While no where near as powerful as the DR750 VR4 i have access to, its worlds more rewarding to drive and i honestly never see myself back in a 3/S as a hobby car.

You can get a mint FD for around 20k, i got mine for a steal and have never looked back and sweet jesus its beautiful in a way no new car can or ever will be again due to the rising belt line and crash standards which have ruined the proportions of many new cars. I parked the FD next to a FRS and its shocking how tall the FRS looked compared to my FD. it was dark so i never took a pic comparing the two.

Jason

Interesting take.

My vr4's roof is lower than the frs too... by 1-2 inches I guess. When the frs is lowered to even up the wheel gap I expect the roof lines to be damn near the same height.

[HellBringer]

You're doing the right thing by driving everything you can get your hands on before deciding. I've loved cars on paper and in pictures, and even from the passenger seat that have turned me off once I spent some time behind the wheel.

That said... My $.02 -- You can find low low mileage stock '03-04 C5 Z06's for mid-low 20's all day long. Absolutely THE best bang for the buck in that price range PERIOD. They're cheap to own and maintain, reasonable to modify and very economical when driven 'normally'. A nice set of wheels, tires and a few bolt-ons and you can have a VERY versatile and rewarding car for less than 30k all-in.

[whitedragon]

You're doing the right thing by driving everything you can get your hands on before deciding. I've loved cars on paper and in pictures, and even from the passenger seat that have turned me off once I spent some time behind the wheel.

That said... My $.02 -- You can find low low mileage stock '03-04 C5 Z06's for mid-low 20's all day long. Absolutely THE best bang for the buck in that price range PERIOD. They're cheap to own and maintain, reasonable to modify and very economical when driven 'normally'. A nice set of wheels, tires and a few bolt-ons and you can have a VERY versatile and rewarding car for less than 30k all-in.

Sage advice right here. You could do worse than own a C5 Z06.

[wingnut]

Sage advice right here. You could do worse than own a C5 Z06.

except that it only seats two...we had a C5 for about three years and finally gave in to the need for even a small backseat :wink:

[ukyo]

Re Chevy Volt: honestly not what I'm after. I'd rather just continue to drive the Explorer as a daily than do that since it's paid off anyway. This car is for me to have fun in and do it reliably.

That's a shame. The Volt has changed my opinion on these clunky ICE cars and their sloppy transmissions. The 335i Sport used to feel like the most amazing car in the world to me, now I think it feels like a jerky, heavy, and primitive way to get around. I don't think I can go back. Tesla, here I come...

Sounds like you have the list narrowed down. The old me wouldn't argue with any of your choices.

[Erron Spalsbury]

Great thread! I've been shopping for an EVO 8-10 and STI's all week long. I need a new daily driver and honestly something that the wife can take the kids in when I take her truck to the track. (it's my tow rig) I've driven all of these of course and I go back and forth. I love the EVO X, but the flappy paddle gearbox I'm undecided on. It's cool, but you totally lose the control of a clutch. In the snow, not an awesome feature. The STI seems more refined on the interior than the X. Although, I came across a really nice silver one, but it had the blue seats. I mean, c'mon, silver car, black interior bits and blue seats? Bad combo. On a blue car, hells yes, but on silver?? I'm still looking around on Craigslist and Auto Trader but chances are I may hit the dealers this weekend too.

[BigTyla]

Once I get moved into my house I'll be taking my eyes toward Craigslist as well. It's just that finding these cars at dealerships is so nice since I can test drive them with less hassle.

[Snook]

Great thread! I've been shopping for an EVO 8-10 and STI's all week long. I need a new daily driver and honestly something that the wife can take the kids in when I take her truck to the track. (it's my tow rig) I've driven all of these of course and I go back and forth. I love the EVO X, but the flappy paddle gearbox I'm undecided on. It's cool, but you totally lose the control of a clutch. In the snow, not an awesome feature. The STI seems more refined on the interior than the X. Although, I came across a really nice silver one, but it had the blue seats. I mean, c'mon, silver car, black interior bits and blue seats? Bad combo. On a blue car, hells yes, but on silver?? I'm still looking around on Craigslist and Auto Trader but chances are I may hit the dealers this weekend too.

There's a clean 08 evo x for sale close to me.

Sent from my HTC One VX using Tapatalk 2

[IPD]

http://motoren.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/000-2012-mini-cooper-coupe.jpg

[vroom4]

Yea, that thing is hideous.

[maTT]

Tyler, you are a new dad with multiple kids. I'd highly recommend against spending $35k on a car...especially a sports couple. Unless you have a couple mil sitting in the bank you need to buy a sub $10k 4-door civic and bank the rest for the future. That Explorer isn't going to last forever. Are you thinking about financing a car? Don't do it. Especially after you just gained a mortgage. That is a formula for disaster and financial grief. I know, I'm an unpopular party pooper.

[PearlWhiteR/T]

^This man has some good words of wisdom. I might have to side with him on this one.

[sergechronos]

Tyler, you are a new dad with multiple kids. I'd highly recommend against spending $35k on a car...especially a sports couple. Unless you have a couple mil sitting in the bank you need to buy a sub $10k 4-door civic and bank the rest for the future. That Explorer isn't going to last forever. Are you thinking about financing a car? Don't do it. Especially after you just gained a mortgage. That is a formula for disaster and financial grief. I know, I'm an unpopular party pooper.

Way to go Dreamkiller. This is why we can't have nice things around here. :D

[AdamVR4]

Tyler, you are a new dad with multiple kids. I'd highly recommend against spending $35k on a car...especially a sports couple. Unless you have a couple mil sitting in the bank you need to buy a sub $10k 4-door civic and bank the rest for the future. That Explorer isn't going to last forever. Are you thinking about financing a car? Don't do it. Especially after you just gained a mortgage. That is a formula for disaster and financial grief. I know, I'm an unpopular party pooper.


LOL! Your personal financial misery has turned you into a real sunshine pumper. We borrowed ~$15K @ ~1.2% for our FR-S that we can pay off in full on a whim. Financial ruin here we come!

[BigTyla]

Tyler, you are a new dad with multiple kids. I'd highly recommend against spending $35k on a car...especially a sports couple. Unless you have a couple mil sitting in the bank you need to buy a sub $10k 4-door civic and bank the rest for the future. That Explorer isn't going to last forever. Are you thinking about financing a car? Don't do it. Especially after you just gained a mortgage. That is a formula for disaster and financial grief. I know, I'm an unpopular party pooper.

In my old position I would have agreed with you completely. I was working on my own and paying a mortgage while my wife was getting her Master's degree for Nurse Practitioner, and she had our twins in the middle of it all, so I did not have the luxury of spending money on a newer vehicle besides her Odyssey for toting the kids around in.

Of course, that was then and this is now. She graduated and is in a highly stable line of work making as much part time as I make full time, and I make a very good living on my own. Without coming off as a complete braggart, I could easily finance even a $70k car comfortably (especially with today's historically low rates), but I'd rather take that money and invest it and pay off debts while I'm still young.

[IPD]

to be honest, tyla, i wouldn't even consider financing a car period. and i'd be capping hers and my roth's at $5500 each before i calculated how much out of the annual budget i could blow on a car.

[vroom4]

Wow, you just want suggestions on a car and now you are getting IRA advice.....

[BigTyla]

to be honest, tyla, i wouldn't even consider financing a car period. and i'd be capping hers and my roth's at $5500 each before i calculated how much out of the annual budget i could blow on a car.

That still leaves me with over $4000 per month, and that's a conservative estimate including expenses for my children, groceries, gas, etc.


Wow, you just want suggestions on a car and now you are getting IRA advice.....

I know, right? :p

[IPD]

more power to you. it was just a tagalong to what maTT was saying.

so have you test-driven anything else?

[AdamVR4]

LOL @ everyone projecting their financial problems onto Tyler.

[HilbillyHomeboy]

LOL @ everyone projecting their financial problems onto Tyler.

No doubt. :shake:

Jeremy

[BigTyla]

more power to you. it was just a tagalong to what maTT was saying.

so have you test-driven anything else?

I'm taking a day off work tomorrow and will have some time to do just that.

[sergechronos]

No doubt. :shake:

Jeremy

Hey, never know when he will be a 25 year old college student with no wife and kids who lost his job and is floating by on financial aid darnit! :D

Besides, look at how many people have rushed into buying a 3/S without looking at all the other factors folks have mentioned and then end up tearing it up or having to turn around and sell it because they can't afford it. A bit of unnecessary advice from other hoping someone avoids their mistake beats somebody getting in over their head.

Lastly, everybody knows if you want a dependable car to have fun with that will only ever appreciate in value and is a good place to investment retirement money it's into a 3/S. Come on now.

What about Acuras? The 05ish TSX or TL with a manual is a pretty fun reliable car that looks good and isn't killer for a daily driver on gas or your spine.

[HilbillyHomeboy]

Hey, never know when he will be a 25 year old college student with no wife and kids who lost his job and is floating by on financial aid darnit! :D

Besides, look at how many people have rushed into buying a 3/S without looking at all the other factors folks have mentioned and then end up tearing it up or having to turn around and sell it because they can't afford it. A bit of unnecessary advice from other hoping someone avoids their mistake beats somebody getting in over their head.

Lastly, everybody knows if you want a dependable car to have fun with that will only ever appreciate in value and is a good place to investment retirement money it's into a 3/S. Come on now.

What about Acuras? The 05ish TSX or TL with a manual is a pretty fun reliable car that looks good and isn't killer for a daily driver on gas or your spine.

Both of the people that offered financial advice know Tyler. IPD has been around since 03, and maTT clear back to the starnet/dragnet days. It's well known, around here, what Tyler and his wife's occupations are, and that they can easily afford a 35k vehicle. While the comments are in good nature, they're far from applicable in this situation. :)

I've known Tyler for over 10 years now. (Damn, didn't realize it had been that long!) If you don't know someone's personal, financial situation, it's best to err on the side of caution and not interject an unsupported opinion. That's how I live, anyway. Dreaming kiddos are a different story. :)

Jeremy

[Granny]

OMG...LOL
We all know the bank won't give you a loan if you don't pay your bills.

Now let's get back on track.

The awesome car is.........

[AdamVR4]

Yeah, this thread needs pictures of each specimen.

[IPD]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8341/8244194971_7d96565965_z.jpg

[AdamVR4]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8341/8244194971_7d96565965_z.jpg

M-coupe, eh? That's a flattering angle...

http://robson.m3rlin.org/cars/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/bmw_z4_m_coupe_1_2006-4.jpg

Looks like an uglier version of these: ;)

http://asset3.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/11/20/Nissan-370Z-4882_620x413.jpg

http://lacarguy.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/scion-fr-s-21.jpg

Ultramarine blue was VERY hard to resist......

[HilbillyHomeboy]

Those are cool little cars. A lot to be desired aesthetically, but the performance is nice.

Jeremy

[VR4Rob]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8341/8244194971_7d96565965_z.jpg

Something worth a shit that you've suggested... I'm shocked!

[maTT]

I'm not interjecting financial problems, only financial wisdom. Take it or leave it. Financing a vehicle is a poor choice irregardless of income. He asked for advice on buying a car, I gave him some. The borrower is a slave to the lender.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

If you drive a car a LOT it can be cheaper to just finance it than fixing up a piece of crap constantly. I mean 30K + miles a year.

[vroom4]

Debbie downers on financing...guess what...financing is basically FREE these days. You pay 500-1000$ over the course of 6 years to borrow 30 grand!

[HilbillyHomeboy]

^Exactly. If you can finance the vehicle at a lower APR than you can return on investing that money, it's a no brainer. Even at a paltry 3% return, that's $900 annual, or $5,400 for 6 years. Subtracting the finance costs from the ROI is going to be a net positive. Finance 101.

Jeremy

[BigTyla]

M-coupe, eh? That's a flattering angle...

http://robson.m3rlin.org/cars/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/bmw_z4_m_coupe_1_2006-4.jpg

Looks like an uglier version of these: ;)

http://asset3.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/11/20/Nissan-370Z-4882_620x413.jpg

http://lacarguy.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/scion-fr-s-21.jpg

Ultramarine blue was VERY hard to resist......

Agreed. When I first glanced at the picture I said "someone fucked up their FR-S."

[vroom4]

Whatever you do, dont buy a dark color. Paint on cars these days seems to be so much softer than in the 90s, everything scratches them.

[IPD]

Something worth a shit that you've suggested... I'm shocked!

oh stfu. i told him from the get-go to buy a focus st.

[AdamVR4]

I'm not interjecting financial problems, only financial wisdom. Take it or leave it. Financing a vehicle is a poor choice irregardless of income. He asked for advice on buying a car, I gave him some. The borrower is a slave to the lender.

He asked for advice on the cars themselves, if anything. Closed mindedness and ignorance of present/future value is not wisdom.

[maTT]

Close mindedness, good point. Are you referring to our current culture of NOW NOW NOW, finance and pay for it later mindset that we are all taught in our undergrad studies? Tyler, open your mind and run the numbers to look at opportunity cost. Find out how you could make that money work for you in other areas (paying off the mortgage, paying off those student loans etc.) Take a look at what the money spent on a new car now could equal if it's invested into your kids future instead. The finance companies would not be interested in your business if it was free.

Why am I such a party pooper? Because I've made these mistakes and learned my lesson. Tyler is a nice guy with a nice family. I wish someone would have given me this advice 10 years ago.

[HilbillyHomeboy]

Tyler did graduate work/TA that paid for his...screw it, nevermind.

Jeremy

[Jimvr4]

Since I'm one of the older farts around here I'll drop my experience on this. For the most part I've been conservative with money but the few times when I've leveraged my investments it has bitten me with losses. Assuming you have cash to pay for something and you choose to finance instead you run the risk of squandering the capital or returning less than you are paying in interest. That said, the SP500 has returned on average more than 8% a year over the long run so IF you're disciplined in keeping an allocation in stocks / bonds that is age appropriate then you should be ahead compared to the 3% car loans you get these days.

BUT, if you're a gambler and can't help but buy individual stocks with your money you will probably get burned. I survived a few of these events but it took me too many years to realize that slow and steady wins the financial race.

[AdamVR4]

Matt,

No car is justifiable when you compare it to an actual investment. It's about balancing happiness and pragmatism, something you admit you've been incapable of doing... And don't make the mistake of paying for your kid's higher education. At most, match the loans they take out so they have skin in the game.

...But you seem motivated. Why don't you tell me what the inflation rate would need to be for the bank to break even lending me ~$15,000 @ ~1.2% APR for ~30 months. Maybe tomorrow we can compare answers and draw conclusions ;)

[AdamVR4]

Just using the numbers from the loan we just took out

$16.5K @ 1.3% (+~$300 finance charge), 30 months
@ 2% inflation, this loan costs me $413 (present value of future series of payments + finance charge - $16.5K)
@ 3% inflation, this loan costs me $198
@ 4% inflation, this loan costs the bank $13

10 yr avg reported inflation = 2.42%
5 yr avg reported inflation = 1.80%
2 yr avg reported inflation = 2.35%

So yeah, this loan will probably cost ~$300.

[vroom4]

dont forget 45 cents for a stamp every month. USPS got their hand in everything!

[J-Groove]

dont forget 45 cents for a stamp every month. USPS got their hand in everything!

Stamp? Pay it online. :)

-John

[futurevr4man]

which cars did you test drive already?!

[Turbo Beast]

OMG...LOL
We all know the bank won't give you a loan if you don't pay your bills.

Now let's get back on track.

The awesome car is.........

WRONG
Karen, im not attacking you :) But please be informed, anybody thats reading this:

I paid cash for my house, vehicles, everything. I have honestly NEVER used credit for anything.
All is paid for in full; I own all my junk.

And I cant get a loan.

So, Credit is king.

Oh and Tyler, I just bought a 78 Trans Am with the 400ci engine in it. Definitely something to look into ;)

[Turbo Beast]

OMG...LOL
We all know the bank won't give you a loan if you don't pay your bills.

Now let's get back on track.

The awesome car is.........

WRONG
Karen, im not attacking you :) But please be informed, anybody thats reading this:

I paid cash for my house, vehicles, everything. I have honestly NEVER used credit for anything.
All is paid for in full; I own all my junk.

And I cant get a loan.

So, Credit is king.

Oh and Tyler, I just bought a 78 Trans Am with the 400ci engine in it. Definitely something to look into ;)

[AdamVR4]

WRONG
Karen, im not attacking you :) But please be informed, anybody thats reading this:

I paid cash for my house, vehicles, everything. I have honestly NEVER used credit for anything.
All is paid for in full; I own all my junk.

And I cant get a loan.

So, Credit is king.


Start building your credit by using it for all your monthly purchases. Pay it off before it costs you any interest. Choose a credit card that rewards you with cash back or miles. We're flying 1st class on our next vacation for free.

[Turbo Beast]

Like groceries and gas? Or other stuff?

[AdamVR4]

Like groceries and gas? Or other stuff?

Yes ;)

[Jimvr4]

That's what I do as well. I even put my auto insurance on it. Several thousand a month adds up in free points. But the reality is that you are paying extra to use credit cards because the merchant pays a 3% fee to Visa/Mastercard and they pass along whatever they can to the consumer.

[Granny]

WRONG
Karen, im not attacking you :) But please be informed, anybody thats reading this:

I paid cash for my house, vehicles, everything. I have honestly NEVER used credit for anything.
All is paid for in full; I own all my junk.

And I cant get a loan.

So, Credit is king.

Oh and Tyler, I just bought a 78 Trans Am with the 400ci engine in it. Definitely something to look into ;)

You have the problem of no credit.

That's just as bad when you want to make large purchases.

We went thru that years ago when Mike was applying for a house loan.
His parents experience the same thing and they could loan the bank money.

I think it's great when you have the drive to save up for everything.

I wish I was like that. LOL

[jerrid]

and also keep in mine in most states your credit score impacts your home and auto insurance rates.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

yeah it does. my home owners says "financial stability discount -43%"

[Boomer3000]

Ok...... Soooo


Have you looked at a Genesis Coupe? I enjoyed the two I drove.. Turbo model was fun and has more room for mods. The 3.8 liter was fun because it had alot more torque. Interiors suited me well and I liked the actual suspension/ride more than anything.

In a perfect world if I were still married and stable, I would have had my g8 by now!!! Love that car!

[HLxDrummer]

A kid I know from undergrad has the first year GenCoupe and loves it. 450WHP and just ran 117MPH on street tires. I think the older ones look pretty good, too.

[IPD]

still not sure what's wrong with a turbo veloster.

[stealthee]

still not sure what's wrong with a turbo veloster.

Its ugly and tiny.

[BigTyla]

I was hesitant to post this after my thread got derailed, but decided to go ahead and copypasta from a local forum I frequent:

Got a call yesterday from the Toyota dealership down the street from my work. They got the manual FR-S in and wanted me to test drive it. I was free for lunch so I decided to give it a go.

They had just finished taping a commercial with the car so it was sitting out front ready to go. 17 miles on the odometer and I was the first person they've had test drive it.

The manual FR-S is so much nicer than the automatic. The car wants to be in that 4-5k RPM range and being able to keep it there with the manual trans makes a huge difference. You can literally feel the power curve change as soon as you hit 4k RPM. Granted, the car is still slow compared to other performance cars, but for $25k, this car is the real deal. I never went full throttle on it but did give it a good go, keeping it under 5k throughout the trip. I took the same route I did in the auto FR-S but really felt more connected with this car having the manual trans. The handling is just sick. It maneuvers effortlessly and the steering is so tight. At one point I came up to some debris in the middle of the road just beyond a hill that I wasn't able to see until the last second. Going 69 mph, I gave the wheel just a little nudge and the car just glided around the debris, doing exactly what I wanted it to do without even coming close to upsetting traction. The engine made a lot of noise but it wasn't annoying and it wasn't overbearing. The shifter felt great - much better than the Focus ST I drove a couple of weeks ago. In fact, I'd say it was better than any of the other cars I drove, and that includes the Evo X and STi.

At this point I honestly don't know how I can go without purchasing the FR-S. It's just brilliant.

[Snook]

I was hesitant to post this after my thread got derailed, but decided to go ahead and copypasta from a local forum I frequent:

Got a call yesterday from the Toyota dealership down the street from my work. They got the manual FR-S in and wanted me to test drive it. I was free for lunch so I decided to give it a go.

They had just finished taping a commercial with the car so it was sitting out front ready to go. 17 miles on the odometer and I was the first person they've had test drive it.

The manual FR-S is so much nicer than the automatic. The car wants to be in that 4-5k RPM range and being able to keep it there with the manual trans makes a huge difference. You can literally feel the power curve change as soon as you hit 4k RPM. Granted, the car is still slow compared to other performance cars, but for $25k, this car is the real deal. I never went full throttle on it but did give it a good go, keeping it under 5k throughout the trip. I took the same route I did in the auto FR-S but really felt more connected with this car having the manual trans. The handling is just sick. It maneuvers effortlessly and the steering is so tight. At one point I came up to some debris in the middle of the road just beyond a hill that I wasn't able to see until the last second. Going 69 mph, I gave the wheel just a little nudge and the car just glided around the debris, doing exactly what I wanted it to do without even coming close to upsetting traction. The engine made a lot of noise but it wasn't annoying and it wasn't overbearing. The shifter felt great - much better than the Focus ST I drove a couple of weeks ago. In fact, I'd say it was better than any of the other cars I drove, and that includes the Evo X and STi.

At this point I honestly don't know how I can go without purchasing the FR-S. It's just brilliant.

Go for it.

Sent from my HTC One VX using Tapatalk 2

[IPD]

done. now lock the thread before tyla has remorse over passing up the turbo focus.

[wingnut]

At this point I honestly don't know how I can go without purchasing the FR-S. It's just brilliant.

Nicely done sir. Now then, since Toyota said this...

Toyota Chief engineer says Toyota GT86/Scion FRS will never see turbo - Fresno Car Buying | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/article/toyota-chief-engineer-says-toyota-gt86-scion-frs-will-never-see-turbo)

Then all you gotta do is this...

P&L Motorsports 2013+ BRZ / FR-S Stage 1 Turbo KitP&L Motorsports (http://pandlmotorsports.com/shop/pl-motorsports-2013-brz-fr-s-stage-1-turbo-kit/)

[BigTyla]

Dead thread, but I figured I'd let everyone know I made a huge purchase yesterday. I'm going to put up one large thread with pics sometime today.

Hint: four doors, not on the list in the OP.

[Boost4VR4]

4 Door Bimmer?

[IPD]

BMW? Only if he has no self respect.

[Boost4VR4]

BMW? Only if he has no self respect.

4 door Audi?!

[j2k4]

Can I say if I know? :D

[HilbillyHomeboy]

I know, I know! :D

Jeremy

[Boost4VR4]

damn... wish I knew... all this suspense....

[j2k4]

Nyah-nyah...:p

[AdamVR4]

So what forums are you lurking these days since you're never around here? :p

[HilbillyHomeboy]

So what forums are you lurking these days since you're never around here? :p

With a set of twins, and a relatively new-born on top of that...probably not much of any. :p

Jeremy

[sergechronos]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/14/c3975f09a64733a1d877aca752e70a7b.jpg

Did somebody say twins? :suspect:

[IPD]

Dead thread, but I figured I'd let everyone know I made a huge purchase yesterday. I'm going to put up one large thread with pics sometime today.

Hint: four doors, not on the list in the OP.

Please tell me you got a CLA.

[BigTyla]

www.3sgto.org/other-platforms/14613-my-new-car-very-cool.html

[IPD]

Government Motors. :(